Video 9

9. Vedantasara | Texts 40-46 | Swami Sarvapriyananda

[Music] we were on text number 40 39 we turn up to 39 it's important to take a quick look back and see what we have accomplished so far um vedanta says that it will be it will be taught by the method of ad which means superimposition and superimposition so what is adhesive what is superimposition it is taking the reality to be not what it is taking the rope to be the snake for example so you take the absolute brahman to be this world we are the absolute but we take ourselves to be this body by these persons so that's superimposition and that's an error and that has to be corrected um what is the correction the negation that is called the superimposition what is that like it's like recognizing that it's not a snake it's a rope recognizing that it's not a universe it is nothing other than brahman the absolute i am that absolute so that is the negation that is d superimposition that's going to be the whole process and that's the heart of all that goes on in advaita vedanta for that the author so first has to define what he means by real and unreal note that the process is always he introduces new terms and then immediately defines them and that's the importance of this text why are we at all doing this particular text we have already done drikdrisha viveka or akarokshana bhuti which are wonderful teachings of you know that they present advaita vedante i would say much more interesting way than this dry little textbook but what is important about this textbook is it just is a book of definitions so when we talk about advaita vedanta we need to know very precisely what are we talking about what exactly is god what exactly exactly is the sentient being us jiva what are we exactly what are we talking about what is liberation what is enlightenment so all these things will be surprised to see how with what precision they have been defined and it's a so it's a a wonderful textbook which sets out the essence of advaita vedanta in a finished form after centuries of tradition finally putting it all together in a form which to which students can be introduced or through which students can be introduced to advaita vedanta that's what this does and this also gives us a fine foundation for entry into the original text of advaita vedanta the upanishads which is what we will do later on so the definitions are important it's going to be definitions um all the way through so definitions are very important and it's it's a joy actually to get so much clarity whether you agree or not first of all let's agree what we are talking about and that's wonderful in itself so much in religion is so vague and you see how precise advaita vedante is you may disagree but we are very clear about what you are agreeing to or disagreeing to all right so he just said that taking the real to be the unreal uh that is superimposition and taking the unreal back to to find out finding out the real in the unreal that is d superimposition or negation so that begs the question what is real and what is unreal in advaita vedanta the real is the absolute existence consciousness bliss nondual brahman and everything else remember this is just just text number 33 everything else starting from ignorance downwards downwards means products of ignorance all of it is unreal then he goes on to define what is this ignorance we are talking about and that was text number i think it was 34 very important but pretty vague also you know if you see it's uh pretty abstract and vague we are talking about maya about uh cosmic ignorance so it doesn't get any more precise than that having defined that now introduces new players into the field into the game the first new player to enter is ishwar or god the god of religion so what is god we were introduced to um this ignorance has a gyanam has a total aspect and an individual aspect it is divisible unlike brahman unlike the absolute absolute is not divisible it is one reality you can't have parts of brahman you can't have different qualities beyond qualities beyond attributes it is just one non-dual reality but ignorance can be divided there can be a totality which is called maya or it can have little parts infinite assembly number of uh infinite number of little parts so it said index number 35 this ignorance which we defined in 34 can be spoken of as a totality one or as many parts when you speak of it as one it gave um it gave two examples one is the forest example the other one is the lake example as a large number of trees taken individually you call them trees taken all together you call them one forest so one forest or many trees many individual ignorances are one cosmic ignorance another example was the lake example you can take billions of droplets of water or you can take the whole thing together and call it one lake similarly you can have many ignorances if that's a word or put it all together have one total ignorance or maya what is the point of all of this so it says this totality of ignorance call it maya is extraordinarily powerful and we were introduced to when consciousness is associated with this totality of ignorance um which is called my consciousness limited by maya is god so that's the point of all this work to consciousness which consciousness brahman which we introduced the one reality that one reality limited by uh maya is called god immediately you must ask but didn't you say that the consciousness alone is real and the maya is and whatever you call it is unreal so how can it limit so it really cannot limit you're right but from our perspective it seems to be limited but our perspective is already we are within the you know the hypnotized superimposed state so we have to accept that we are under the influence of this maya or ignorance so that absolute reality limited by maya is called god and we got four names four names for this consciousness limited by maya which is called god four names we are introduced to the unmanifest antaryani the inner controller jagat karanam the creator of the cause of the world is the lord which is the common name for god in all theistic religions four names for what the absolute reality consciousness limited by uh by often i write brahman or nirguna brahman but the plus does not mean it is something more it is something greater no it's actually a limitation all right and this maya you can call it the uniform which the absolute puts on now it becomes god he said you can say the absolute is playing god how do you play god you put on the uniform of god what is the uniform of god maya and this uniform this maya has four names again i'm on text number 39 that's the last thing we did last time what are the four names of maya or this uniform of god it is called karna sharidah the causal body the names are very evocative consciousness with a causal body becomes the cause of the universe so consciousness with a causal body not casual body causal body it's not casual where it says the business where actually for for the for the absolute so for putting on business where it gets down to business to create this universe so causal body car and a shader one name second name um ananda maya kosha because it's the it's full of bliss and it um like a sheath it covers consciousness so it is called the bliss sheath third name um it is the cessation of the entire universe at that level remember no universe is there yet it's only consciousness and maya so that maya is the cessation of the universe the universe comes to an end there and begins from there also but at the level of maya there is no no apparent no universe nothing is there it's just consciousness plus maya so it is deep sleep and then um the fourth name is laiasthanam it is the place of dissolution resolution of what the physical universe and the subtle universe all of them become dissolved in the causal universe what is the causal universe maya so four names we have got for my and four names for um for uh what were the four names for ishvara um the unmanifest the antarayami inner controller and what else was there the um cause of the universe and ishwar the lord of the universe and for maya we have got four names um it is the karna shadira the causal body notice god is called the cause of the universe and maya is the causal body that is the power of the vehicle or the are the work clothes of god you know by the way which god creates this universe and then it is called ananda maya kosha the bliss sheath it is also called the sushupti the state of deep sleep but this is cosmic sleep not our sleep and layasthanam the place of dissolution or the state of dissolution resolution of the entire universe now let us move on what's going to come next us so one player has been introduced that is ishwar or god the next player to be introduced will be the jiva us text number 40. [Music] [Music] [Music] what does that mean as a forest from the standpoint of the units that compose it may be designated as a number of trees and as a reservoir from the stand same point may be spoken up as a quantities of water so also ignorance when denoting separate units is spoken of as many as in such shruti passages as indra through maya appears as of many forms okay what does it mean getting ready to trot out to bring on stage us how do you do that the same absolute consciousness associated with maya is god same absolute consciousness limited by or associated with parts of maya is us each part of maya when the same absolute shines through each part of my becomes an individual being like each of us so now he's going to talk about maya has having many parts he's proceeding very logically and slowly example go back to the two example forest example forest entry example a water reservoir and drops of water example why these examples i mentioned there are two so behind this is a lot of groundwork which has been done there are two sub-schools of advaitha vedanta a monk whose school is known as the vivarana school and the the other school is the school of vachaspatimishra called the bahamati school and these two schools they have different views on many topics several topics one of the major ones being what is the relationship of the absolute to this universe how is the one related to the many one brahman and this manifold universe how are they what what exactly how do they work together how does it happen so one is the limitation model the other one is called the reflection model reflection model you know you can the example of the example of the water and sky so sky reflected in water or maybe sun reflected in in a pot of water that's an example of a reflection model it is the absolute reflected in maya so that is how the one becomes the many or appears as the meaning the limitation model is that it is the absolute which um appears through the limitations of maya example would be the sky and the space enclosed in various spots or various houses so the sky itself and the space apparently enclosed in various spots space cannot be enclosed by parts you may say why not we have so many parts and this space in them no parts and bottles and houses and whatever seems to enclose space does not actually enclose space part the space is not in the pot the part is in space think about it if you have a glass of water and you move it clearly the water is in the glass it's uh when you move the glass the water goes with it otherwise you'd make a big bet mess every time you try to move the class but the space suppose you're an empty class the space which seems to be in the class isn't so isn't the space in the class when you move the class doesn't the space travel with it no it doesn't it's the glass which the glass or the part which travels through space space doesn't travel with the glass so space seems to be enclosed in parts or classes or um you know houses but it's not actually uh in the same way pure consciousness seems to be enclosed in maya and bodies and minds and all of that it isn't the many uh just seem to be like demarcations or apparent limitations of the absolute that's one theory the other theory is the absolute is reflected in maya and maya is many i mean it can be divided so it that absolute can appear to be many individual beings many entities see one undivided existence can appear as infinite number of existing things one unbroken consciousness can now appear as endless cities of conscious perceptions thoughts feelings ideas one limitless bliss or value or joy can now appear as there is continuous flow of sukkah and pleasure and pain so the two theories story time i might have repeated these stories other times but it's a good time because i have introduced these two theories uh they are called pratibhimbavada reflection theory and avats the limitation theory um sub schools sub schools of advaita vedanta so the two stories of padma padra and waspati mishra so padma father acharya was shankaracharya's favorite disciple he got this name padma pada means lotus foot so how did he get this strange name lotus feet his original name was and he was very devoted to shankaracharya and obviously shankaracharya favored him the other disciples got a little jealous and shankaracharya wanted to teach them you know why sanandan is so favored and so one day they were in the mountains i think there was a fast flowing river between them shankaracharya and the other disciples were on this bank and suddenly shankaracharya called out to surrender so then come here i i i want you here now surrender what gone to the other bank for some work when the guru is calling he did not hesitate he did not wait to go around to the bridge and come and cross rather he walked straight into the river because he has to cross over and meet the guru because the guru is ordering to him to do so as he walked on the river he didn't drown nor did his feet get wet but everywhere he put his foot a big lotus bloom and he walked across on a bridge of lotuses all right i know but it's a nice story now that's why he's known as um padma padha the lotus footed one so that was the story source of his name now how did the school originate after shankaracharya composed his great commentaries he composed his commentary on the brahma sutras known as the brahma-sutra now further explanations this is how indian philosophy progresses the original texts commentaries subcommentaries sub-sub-commentaries so shankaracharya has written the crucial commentary establishing a non-dualistic interpretation of the brahma-sutras of uh bother ayana now further explanation is necessary who will write the subcommentary on sangracharya's commentary and of course the natural choice was which will explain what i have explained already in further detail so um he did that um bunch of this he did that and he um explained and chakra chad you heard some of it and shankaracharya praised it the way the commentary will see here we have really captured the spirit of my teachings now around this time so these are long all these stories are pretty long but my father wanted to go on on pilgrimage so shankaracharya said all right you blessed him you go ahead and padma padha went to different places he went to his home where he had come from in the south of india and his uncle was there and his uncle received him and his uncle was eager to know who is this new young teacher you have become a disciple of shankara was only in his teens so tell us about him and tell us about his teachings so padma pad explained non-dualism non-dualistic teaching advaita and his uncle was a dualist uh draitawadi so he was really upset by this powerful teaching of non-dualism he said this will ruin our philosophy so what do we do um father had read out from his book except from his book which was an explain an explanation of shankaracharya's commentary on the brahmasutras so his uncle said it's a very precious book please leave it with me and go don't uh take it risk taking it with you go on your pilgrimage come back on the way back and collect this book i'll keep it safely so the unsuspecting padma father left it with his uncle when went off on a tour and came back when he came back he found his uncle's house was burnt down now this crooked man had gone to the extent of burning down his uh his own house so that he could claim that the volume was burnt he wept and veiled and said i'm so sorry nephew but your masterpieces i don't care about my house but your masterpiece is burnt and it's such a terrible loss to humanity and padma padha said oh uncle don't worry i've got the entire thing in memory you know so you don't have to worry i i remember the whole thing to the horror of the uncle the uncle now not to be put down he devised an even more devious plan so he invited padma father to dinner and he poisoned padma father with a kind of amnesia introducing uh inducing poison so after that meal padma father forgot the entire text so he was very frustrated very despondent went his went bend his way back um to his master shankaracharya and told him this lamentable tale and shankaracharya said well don't worry what you had told me before you left i remember all of that word for word and i can recite it to you you can write it down so they had prodigious memories in ancient times it seems so it's like downloading from the cloud or whatever no data loss so the point of the whole story is a part of what padma padha had written was recovered because shankaracharya remembered it whatever my father had composed before setting off on that ill-advised journey so that part is called pancha padhika pancha padhika the five sections so it's not a comprehensive commentary on the brahma sutras uttara bhashya francaracharya remember where we are the sutras composed by badhrayan or vyasa shankara's non-dualistic commentary shankarabhasya and on that padma padas panchapadhika the five section commentary subcommittee again so what now this subcommentary became the basis for further teaching of non-dualism after shankaracharya and his disciples had passed away a later generations a great scholarly monk called prakash atma yati prakash akhmayati he composed a sub subcommentary on that called the pancha padhika vivarana panchapadhika so what do we have now sutra shankaracharya is panchapathika and then the prakash panchapadhika vivarana expansion on the panchapatika this vivarana became the name of the sub school of vedanta so it is called the vivarana school the river and a school and if you want to pin us down swami which school of vedanta of advaith what's what philosophy do you subscribe to advaita vedanta which school of advice of vedanta do you subscribe to it will be this one because the lineage of monks coming down from shankaracharya they followed this what about the other school the other school came about 200 years after shankaracharya there was a great scholar uh watches pati mishra he was not a monk he was a householder this extraordinary scholar is a landmark scholar in indian philosophy he has the title what does it mean a very imposing title a master of all the philosophies so swatantra means independent who has independent access to all the philosophies um so he has significant works what's just pakistan significant works on the nyaya philosophy and the imams of philosophy on patanjali's yoga on sankhya all important work and even studied even till today now what what happened was the story goes she was getting married and it seems in those days in the marriage ceremony there would be a part of the so you know hindu marriages are are unending they go on and on and on um so there was this joke somewhere that in in america the group of hindus invited their white friends to the hindu marriage and the white people were very happy all the the color and the the music and and so on and so forth then six hours later is that oh god when is it going to end and so it seems in those ancient times there was um again stories one of the ceremonies would be a scholarly debate which the groom and the bride would listen to on some topic of spiritual uh of philosophy so in that marriage it was a discussion on the newly emerging commentaries you know on vedanta written by shankar and his disciples and all so the pundits were discussing this and rajasthan he was very annoyed he said they're getting it wrong and they're just not right what they are explaining i'm sure all the relatives would have said hush just keep quiet get but get married first so there and then vacation vowed that once this marriage ceremony was over he would put it right he would compose such a textbook such a book on vedanta which would you know for generations to come nobody would have any more problems understanding vedanta they would not make such foolish mistakes so right after marriage he got to work day and night he began to compose this commentary on shankara's commentary on the brahma sutras so brahma sutras shankara's commentary watches pati mishra has come sub-commentary now long time passed one day rajasthan was slogging away again story he was slogging away at his writing his commentary it was dark and he saw this lady enter with a lamp and place the lamp so he was taken aback she said at this time in the evening a woman in my house who are you lady and why are you here she sighed and said oh i am your wife and this is the first time you have spoken to me in 20 years you know or 30 years or whatever and he was taken aback and he said we got married then so many decades ago and you have been it's just a story i mean he's been so involved in writing the sub sub comment on the subcommentary on on the advaita vedanta he never even spoke to his wife so he was very sorry about this and he asked what is your name and she said my name is brahmati and he said all right i have never i haven't been able to do anything for you this much i can do i will name my name this book brahmati and as long as vedanta is studied your name will will be remembered by everybody everybody is going to read this book and he was right even till today a thousand years he lived around 1080 so a thousand years after uh bachelorette away even now the traditional scholars in india who study uh vedanta did advaita vedanta they read the bhamdi that's the indispensable book i even i have a copy right here i can show it to you can you see this it says bahamati of watches yes so it's named after that lady a thousand years ago and it's a book with so it goes like this there's a sanskrit written by rajasthan with an english translation on the other side again what's the point what's the relation to us uh this brahmati became the basis for another school of iran another school of advaita vedanta so you had now two sub schools of advaita vedanta the vivarana school which traced its origins back to padma padha and the brahmati school which traces its origins back to this book written by rajasthan and why did we at all talk about this the two examples come from these two different schools the reflection example the sky and water example reservoir example comes from padma padha's approach and the limitation example that means the uh the sky and the enclosed and the forest and trees for example uh comes from uh watch asparty school so that's it now it's good to know these stories these stories are handed down from the traditional pundits they're full of such interesting stories okay i'm on text number 40 look at the sanskrit yata vanastia beshte away praying of rickshawity just as if you take a forest individually if you see the components you will call them trees plural many not one forest but many trees or yatava or take the other example jala says your bestiary praying or jalanity or take a reservoir instead of saying a reservoir a lake say billions of droplets of water many many drops of water exactly like that this cosmic ignorance the power of god that can be seen as many many individual ignorances you can say that there are many ignorances again he has to give a supporting quote from the upanishads or from from the vedas is there anywhere which says that there can be many ignorances he says yes the rigveda the most ancient of the vedas says maya assumed many forms so what the little sanskrit grammar here maya is the plural of maya the interesting use of maya usually maya is in singular but here it's used in plural which means ignorance can be seen as many anyway it's a long-winded way of making a point that ignorance can be subdivided or maya can be subdivided 41. let me introduce the jeeves let us come on stage and then we can take the questions ignorance has been designated as individual and connect collective on account of its pervading the units and the aggregate yeah so just like um in each individual there's ignorance so it is called separate many or collective total because it is associated with the totality with consciousness of one consciousness and all ignorance together now this individual ignorance the one which we have iam vyashti nikrishtav this is text number 42 the individual ignorance on account of its association with the inferior being is characterized by impure sattva remember the total ignorance maya is was predominant predominantly satwik and it had many extraordinary qualities but the individual one which we have is is a pretty miserable kind of thing it is very low powered let us see let's put it that way the example of the cobra which has all the poison in its mouth and the poison doesn't do anything to the core which in fact is the power of the cobra but when it puts a little bit of it into its prey into a frog or an unfortunate mouse that little bit is enough to knock out the mouse it's not the power of the mouse it incapacitates the mouse similarly for us that absolute consciousness the infinite existence consciousness bliss that when associated limited passing through this tiny bit of ignorance now appears like us not particularly inspiring uh creatures so what happens to us 43 associated with this has limited knowledge and is divided of the power of lordship it is called pragma on account of its being the illuminator of individual ignorance what does this mean consciousness associated with limited or one bit of ignorance consciousness associated with or covered with one limited ignorance now gets the qualities limited knowledge look at the knowledge compared to the omniscience of god what about the absolute pure consciousness limited knowledge or omniscient doesn't apply those questions does not apply but for god god is omniscient and knows everything us we know very little and even that which we know is doubtful and it is earned with great effort and quickly lost so alpagia we know very little then for example in the bhagavad-gita fourth chapter krishna when krishna announces that he's an avatar he points this out to arjuna arjuna asks how is it that you are saying you have taught vedanta to in ancient times and you are teaching it now you were born just like me a few years ago how could you have taught the ancients vedanta to the ancients and krishna says both you and i have had many birds i know them all you don't so this i know them all points to this that the the omniscience of god and the little knowledge of this um of of us of worldly creatures of jivas sentient beings anishwara is a very important word powerlessness we are powerless we are helpless we are swept along by our karma we are like being like little creatures being swept along in a split in a river in spain um so ishvara is not powerless ishwar is all-powerful everything happens by the will of god very little happens by our own will we are entirely subject to nature and nature is subject to god adi etc so all the host of miserable attributes are associated with the sentient being with us we are powerful in certain ways but uh compared to the power of god it's nothing it's really miserable and what is our name pragya if you go back to mandukya you will see this name you're familiar with the deep sleeper is called pragya so what is he talking about here he says you're talking about us what what kind of us this is not something that we recognize consciousness associated with individual ignorance what else is talking about if you talked about a body or a mind i would have understood but what is this consciousness associated with individual ignorance he's talking about our deep sleep experience what we are in deep sleep that has been pointed out this is the first time it's being anchored to our daily experience what we experience in deep sleep that is what is what is the the seed form of the individual sentient being it is called prana consciousness in in uh which experiences deep sleep it illumines one ignorance so consciousness in each of us illumines one ignorance one in the countable sense one one one one and so many ignorances but consciousness when it illuminates all of it together is called is god consciousness which illumines one bit of ignorance in each of our deep sleep it is called a jiva sentient being individual sentient being let me just do uh 44 i will do 44 45 and 46 okay it because it is deficient in illumination on account of its association with a dull limiting adjunct the unlimiting adjunct is that one single ignorance that is called a dull limiting adjunct and it's called pragya so the word prankya can be etymologically analyzed in different ways here it is in sanskrit praying almost unknowing which is our experience in deep sleep um now just like in the case of god and maya in our case also we will get four names and our dress the uniform we have put on in deep sleep that will also get four names what are the names you can now see the correspondence with it is very symmetric corresponding with the case of ishwara god and the individual being sentient being 45 asyapi yum [Music] [Music] so the individual ignorance which we have each of us um it is known as the causal body why the causal body it is can be compared to it goes back to our mandukya study where in deep sleep it's the causal state from which emerges like a sprout the subtle body in in dreams and the uh physical body in the waking so it's like the seed and therefore it is called karna sharira what is karna sharira that ignorance in deep sleep whose ignorance in deep sleep each of us so that is our own personal causal body maya is the causal body of god the individual ignorance is our own individual causal body and it's a tiny part of the cosmic causal body then ananda prachura it is the locus of it's full of bliss bliss in the sense of restfulness not that we are having a party in deep sleep if you are then you are not in deep sleep but it's very restful in the sense there's no trouble in deep sleep it's a place of absolute rest it's the deepest risk that we know we know of naturally so anand because it is the place of absolute rest or blissfulness because it covers like a sheaf what does it cover like a sheet i the consciousness i'm covered like a sheep it's almost like like little kids we used to sleep in winter in india we'd put these thick blankets and it would be fun to pull it over our heads and then you can't see anything even if you open your eyes inside that blanket it's totally dark you can't see anything that you might as well keep your eyes closed so in deep sleep is something like that and the blanket is like this um uh under my kosher so it is called ananda my kosher the bliss because it's the cessation of all activity an external world physical activity the senses mind all of it seizes in deep sleeps which is called it is deep sleep it's the state of deep sleep it is also so it is the place where the physical body and the subtle body are dissolved that means dissolved in the sense from your individual perspective you don't have an experience of a world you don't have an experience of a physical body you don't have an experience of a mind four names for your individual ignorance what are the four names karna shadira causal body ananda maya kosher bliss sheep um sushupti deep sleep layasthanam the place of dissolution four names exactly like the cosmic case in the deep sleep okay before we go on to this all right let me do number 46 i'll take the questions [Music] in the deep state of dreamless sleep or deep sleep both ishwar and pragya both god and individual being through a very subtle function of ignorance illumined by consciousness enjoy happiness or rest as in the shruti passage pragya the enjoyer of bliss with consciousness for its aid is the third aspect is again from mandukya as also from such experience of a man awaking from dreamless sleep as i slept happily i did not know anything so what is what has been just said here what is it like an experience how where do we experience this thing so notice your deep sleep in your in your deep sleep what happens there is no trouble the worldly troubles come to an end it is deeply restful and we wake up from that and we say i slept happily i did not know anything but i slept happily that i did not know anything this was also an experience it is not that something that you infer audiologically you make a calculation that i must have been sleeping but no it's actually an experience how do you get that experience he says consciousness consciousness illumines the state of deep sleep um but the mind is not functioning how would you even remember such a thing you have yourself said the physical body is at complete rest the mind is dissolved i mean resolved at least not active then how if it's an experience how would you even remember such a thing so it makes a uh statement here ati sukshmabhi ragyan abrectivity by the extremely subtle functionings of ignorance itself in the in the causal body in ananda my kosher remember ignorance causal body ananda my culture those are also dynamic they're part of maya and there's a continuous change going on there and so the experience so called experience of deep sleep is recorded there and it is record by the mind when it wakes up so there is a kind of recording going on but it's not memory as we know it because mind is not active you never have the memory of i experience deep sleep rather it's like a proto memory when you wake up you don't feel that i was there but yet it's distinctly it was a kind of a strange kind of an experience okay um and he's quoting from the bantu kyo um i slept happily naked when you wake up you have such a cognition okay now let's see what has come up in the discussions um let us see the chat i presume the bliss quality of brahman existence consciousness place is different from the british sheath along the maya kosher is bliss the first sheath because of its proximity to the absolute like the warmth being experienced the proximity of fire true this is from rick yes so the bliss when you say anand the maya that is different from sachitananda different in the sense that anandamaya means pervaded by bliss so pervaded by bliss it is not bliss itself when you say it's a difference between existence itself and an existing thing consciousness itself and a conscious experience similarly ananda and that which is pervaded by ananda so the our causal body or the deep sleep experience is pervaded by ananda but it's not the not ananda is in brahman itself that is deeper than this and kosha means sheath sheath means that which covers so this one actually covers brahmana there's a lot of discussion about this according to advaita vedanta brahman is something beyond the ananda my question according to some other interpretations ghana my kosher is the final reality uh consciousness under my kosher is the final reality those are the ones who accept only ishwara they do not accept a nirguna brahmana an absolute beyond ishwara they don't accept certain interpretations advaita vedanta says no brahman or sachidan under the absolute is beyond this or deeper than this first sheath because of its proximity to the absolute proximities in the sense yes because there is nothing else between it and the absolute it goes like this causal um causal subtle gross so right now for example we have the gross universe here and a growth or a physical body but within this we experience a subtle body and these are not theories you can actually you're actually experiencing here is a gross body and here's a subtle body thoughts feelings emotions why are you distinguishing between them it is obviously you have to distinguish between the note there's a vast difference between the two the physical body is something that everybody can see it's publicly out there the doctor can experience and examine it in fact the doctor may know more about it than you do and the subtle body thoughts feelings emotions ideas my own personality that is available only to you it is directly experienced by consciousness it cannot be objectified by others doctors don't know anything about what you are thinking feeling experiencing until you report it they'll ask you notice so for example as a very simple example is i went for this eye test so now they have very sophisticated devices as an i've gone for an eye test when i was a kid you know many many years ago and there they only had a chart with abcd all jumbled up and you have to read up the letters and that was the only thing they had nowadays there's so many computer devices and so many scanning devices and things like that and um so they can they they can do very fine tracking of what's going on in the lens and all of that but finally they have to say so swami how does it look to you why are you asking me if it's a just a physical thing then you it should be available to you in your sophisticated device if you didn't ask me if you're studying my liver you don't have to ask me but when you're studying something like perception there are two aspects to it is a physical body eyes and nerves and the lens which you you the doctor know better than me but there is a subtle body aspect to it the perception the mind which is seeing with the help of the sense organs when you're asking how does it look to you to your subtle body to the mind which only you can talk about so subtle body and physical body are different and then we have a third kind of experience which we don't talk about because it seems very mysterious and unremarkable which is deep sleep experience so that is causal body um yeah and vedanta says all those are uniforms it's an overcoat the physical body and it's your shirt which is the subtle body and it's your vest which you are wearing which is the causal body but you are not any of those is this cosmic ignorance cordelia's asking be behind the creation of this yes brahman plus cosmic ignorance brahman plus maya maya is the limitation of the absolutely also the shakti of brahman absolutely how do we understand shakti as limitation yes from our perspective shakti or maya is not limitation it is glorious it is tremendously powerful it is it it's what makes god god omniscient omnipresent uh all powerful omnipotent and so on but it's a limitation from the perspective of the absolute from the perspective of infinite existence consciousness place with maya then it becomes god so it is it is a kind of limitation um it it is in the sense it gives it all these glorious powers but all of those are in the realm of appearance they are not uh the reality let's put it this way it is not reality as it is what is reality as it is non-dual brahman and what is um ishwara brahman covered with maya yeah let's put it this way brahman covered with maya the screen as it is the movie screen covered with light and sound is glorious it gives you a cinema but it's not the screen as it is in that way only i'm saying it's but it gives you the possibility of playing so many movies that's there so it is the shakti of god maya we were in school ascribed to its limitation model reflection waverland school follows the reflection model or the limitation model and there are many other differences more than a dozen different differences this is just one of them these are major differences does the five koshers approach apply to all embodied beings yes five koshers are the we will come across them later on but we know the ananda my kosher the vigyana my kosher the mano may kosha the pranamaya kosha and the ananda so far what have we got we have got only anandamaya the first one the next others will come all of these five can be reduced to the three bodies causal body subtle body and um physical body gross party karana sharira sukshma shariras thula sharira we'll see all of that will all come it's going to be built up slowly the four names for maya and the names for ignorance associated pragma are the same yes notice the symmetry the same names have been applied one for the totality and one for individual cobra in its poison so in text 42 cobra is poison is this it's not in the book itself but it is an example given by sri ramakrishna what is the example a very good example all the poison is in the mouth or the glands of the cobra but it does not harm the cobra in fact it is the power of the cobra the poison is the power of the cobra but even a tiny bit of that poison even a tiny bit of that poison when the cobra bites a mouse or a frog or something it's enough to knock out or kill that little poor little mouse so uh similarly all of maya together is the power of god you see the way we are using this is the words are ghana ignorance someone might say little bit of ignorance is bad and then god has got the totality of ignorance so god if i am a fool because of a little bit of ignorance god must be the biggest fool no it's just the opposite there all that cosmic ignorance all taken together is the power of god it enables god to hide god's own real nature which is brahman and nigram and project it as this universe just like the cobra with all the poison in its mouth has no no problem at all and in fact uses it to catch its prey um in sankhya many purusas hear many individual ignorances can you speak about this yeah so if you stop at multiple purusas that's it but you see here we already we have started from something deeper than multiple purusas we started with one consciousness now we are saying how does one consciousness appear as many it's like one sky reflected in many many many uh droplets of water so it's uh it's advaithic not um not sanction okay so many questions are there from an from the perspective of an enlightened soul who is beyond ignorance there is no ishvara or maybe there is no need for god for such a person yes and no from an enlightened person's perspective first of all then it's not a person as long as you're talking about a person you have to talk about god also you see the two came together uh jiva and ishwara right now beyond the personhood of the person and the godhood of god is that absolute so then there is only this absolute existence consciousness place does that mean there's no god you have to be careful there when you say there's only the absolute then what are you you will say i am that absolute ahmram ask me then what is god god is also that absolute you can't say there's only the absolute and i am the absolute and god is nothing let's get rid of him no if you are the absolute then god is also the same absolute and you and god are one reality that is the ultimate conclusion of advaita vedanta there is one existence which is existence consciousness bliss through maya appears as god and the individuals individuals plural individuals when they realize that one existence they see god is nothing but that one existence and we are also nothing but that one existence and god does not become false in advaita vedanta careful god's godhood or in in sanskrit is dispensed with not for not that god is demoted god is promoted to the absolute and as you promote yourself to the absolute from the jiva individual sentient being to the absolute you see i am the absolute then god is also the absolute and you and god are one at that level what happens to the awareness uh aspect of maya when one that is the thing we will see that later the we have not yet seen our developing power that's going to come later on so we'll see that maya has one one of the powers of maya is to veil the reality that veiling is removed by knowledge notice the projection of the universe continues even after you become enlightened god will still project this universe for you but only thing is god cannot or maya does not veil brahman from you you know that this universe is nothing but brahman and you are nothing but brahman but it continues to appear in this way but the awareness the wailing power is overcome can you mentioned rama says you mentioned about the causal body also being dynamic can you explain this please yes dynamic in what sense not that it is hands and feet or uh or it is thinking something but the causal body is made of sattva rajasthan because it's my remember agyana is made of trigonate it's a tiny bit of that again so it's made of satura and this is continuously changing sattva is becoming rajasthan is becoming tamas thomas is again becoming rajas and sattva is changing because it's dynamic it has the power or so they say of recording the experience of deep sleep and experience within quotes it's not an experience like normally i see something or hear something and i remember it not that way all right two hands were up um you are next uh by question i i'm going to have you know it's in my mind i don't know how to express it but uh the first question i have is that when we are talking about uh when you start studying video i have this problem that as if we're trying to put you know let me see how to we're trying to uh visualize these things that were abstract before and then the problem comes is how do i and how to understand these things actually i have a tendency of saying okay this is ignorance this is mine this is and they're not really in concrete things to grasp your hand your your all right i get what you're trying to say don't worry about it this uh vedanta will make it very concrete you know what's going to happen now now we have they have introduced ishwara and the jiva next they will show how ishwara produces the world the five elements will be produced from the five elements the subtle bodies our mind and prana and everything will be um constructed and from and then the five gross elements from which the entire physical universe will be constructed so when the whole process of superimposition adheropa culminates you will arrive at where we are a cosmos with plants and animals and stars and planets and physical bodies then you will have something concrete to grasp and you will have the entire process step by step from where it came from right now we are at a very abstract level consciousness ignorance cosmic consciousness our consciousness and cosmic ignorance parts of ignorance whatever that is deep sleep there's still slowly it's beginning to be rooted in experience see there already is something that you know has been mentioned deep sleep has been mentioned one thing is what about where does time space and causality reside it's not an ignorance right or is it in the mind time space and causality resides in maya that will not be spoken about here but another definition of maya is time space and causality it is the stage on which the cosmic drama is played so time space and causation are like the stage you need want to have a play you had a stage so what is the stage for this cosmic drama you require space you require time and you require cause and effect something leading to something else and then the whole thing will come up remember i think you had asked last time i forgot to mention no girish had asked that where does this universe come from and he asked why this particular universe why why are we like this why are stars and planets like this why is life like that so what does vedanta say about it vedanta says all of this comes because of maya the absolute is projected as the menu that's it but in the many all these things different distinctions are there varieties are there how do you explain that at the most vedanta will say it is because of the law of causation or causality law of causation is causality working through time and space it produces all this variety if you want further detail the best answer would be today would be science you see science is as far as we can understand even science is limited but as far as we can understand we can get much better detailed explanations of what's going on in this universe why a certain kind of life is like this why does a particular chemical reaction work like that how do stars ah how are stars powered the fusion reaction and so on science has provided us much better explanations so the detailed explanation of how things are in this universe is a scientific question but and then you say why not stop with science no i was just thinking about it you know if you stop with science three fundamental questions cannot be answered three questions one question why does anything exist at all why this thing exists and how it influences other things science but why does anything exist at all what is existence that book i told you about why does the world exist jim holt so he takes this question to science physicists mathematicians computer scientists philosophers theologians poets why does anything exist at all what is existence that's one question and their vedanta is actually it is the science of existence itself such pure being business the second question that cannot be answered if you stick to only science as we know it is consciousness see we have run up against the hard problem of consciousness now you cannot explain you can you will explain you will end up with brain and nothing more so consciousness is the second question that cannot be answered and how important that is and the third question which cannot be answered is the question of value meaning meaning ethics value those things cannot be answered in a scientific way so these things and notice what so what does vedanta say about it notice what we've done to say all existence questions point back to sat consciousness points back to chit and all questions of value ethics happiness meaning purpose goes back to ananda so this is the answer to the deepest questions which cannot be touched by science by the very definition of science as we know it then [Music] today you talked about space permeating the pot and then um just a few minutes back we talked about the subtle body and you mentioned it's within the gross body now when we say breathing it almost seems that the subtle body is embedded inside the grouse body but then if we think about consciousness let's say just the way it pervases and permeates everything similarly the next the subtle the mind is that also not permeating the uh gross body like my body and all bodies because we are experiencing the whole world uh everything in the mind so it's not inside uh like uh as it sounds no uh i mean the way we look at it this way that there are many subtle bodies there are many causal bodies many subtle bodies and many gross bodies clearly there are many gross bodies you can count here 70 plus are here the separate body and the minds are also separate are they not if you ask questions if you ask for opinion what does an opinion poll do it takes the opinions of different minds it's because the minds are different thoughts feelings ideas understanding is different so subtle bodies are also different now where is the subtle body we find the working of the subtle body in the physical body only without the physical body the subtle body doesn't function it exists but it will not function it's like software and hardware software permeates the hardware it makes it but it needs the hardware to work to express to function so yes subtle bodies are limited within the physical bodies but not limited in a certain sense because when the physical body dies the subtle body still exists it will go on it is prior to the physical body and it will outlast the physical body and the causal body is prior to the subtle body the causal body is nothing but the the defunct state of the subtle body when the subtle body stops functioning resolved into blankness that's the causal body yeah but i think uh based on today's discussion i was thinking more in subjective terms like if we take from subject view like me only from my point of view when i look at it my causal body and then from that springs up the subtle body and then in that subtle body i i if i at the moment forget that let's say i'm dreaming i mean is there really a difference between the waking state and dream state in that so you're going to yes that's a different question you're going to mandukya now so don't go there here it's vedanta it's far yeah i know it's not but this question that lingers so i thought i'll ask yes is there a difference between the dream and the waking certainly there will be a huge um difference depending on your answer to this question if you say waking and dreaming are two different states and there are distinct properties so in the waking we experience an external world which exists independent of our individual minds and in dreams we experience an internal world which does not exist apart from our individual minds our minds are conjuring up that word so that's one view and that's close to the common sense view are you with me that's the common sense view that's the scientific view that's the view that the world operates on i mean the common sense view materialistic view reductionist view scientific view is that yes there is a difference between your waking and your dreaming dreaming is entirely subjective it is you you and you only but the waking world is not you you are only a tiny tiny part of the waking world so that's one view does vedanta accept that yes that's one model in vedanta that's the basic model it is called srishti drishti srishidushri means god has created the universe and then these sentient beings are placed in it and that's a common sense approach and that's easily acceptable and that's what vedantasaur will proceed on but remember we are talking from manduka perspective there is another perspective which advaita vedanta also follows another model that um there is no difference between the waking and the dreaming remember in mundoca we put in a lot of effort to show that there's no difference between waking and dreaming so if you don't if you erase that difference it has dramatic consequences for the reality of the world an external world it becomes as subjective as your dream world so from a manduka perspective there is the causal state deep sleep and there is a waking there is a dreaming stick what is the dreaming state your dreams are also dreams and your waking is also another kind of dream maybe a little more permanent kind of dream but nothing outside uh you know your subjective being so that's a very dramatic step that's not the normal way we think now you might ask but which one is it which one is it if you ask are you asking yeah i'm asking and it seems more logical the second one i mean it means it means more than the first it's logical it's philosophically deeper it's a more radical view of advaita vedanta but um it's just one more model it's not that's also not the reality remember from an advaithic perspective suppose you ask you're saying this model and that model please tell me which one is real advertisement already told you text number 33 only brahman is real you're waking dreaming it's not that the dreaming world is everything is a dream no that even that is false the world exists in my mind world your mind your individuality those are also all false according to advaita vedanta only brahman is real badass is very simple that way then what is all these what are these models from an advaithic perspective these are ubayas these are methods these are ways of you remember the donkey being tired and untied right the ways of untying the donkey yeah a better explanation of uh maya as so to speak the world we uh better better in what way and listen carefully better in one way and not better in another way better in one way which way logically better it is more economical you know you heard of occam's razor so a more elegant explanation so that is um i mean it would satisfy a mathematician better a philosopher but it's not better in another way which is the other way which is why is it not better it's not better because it does it's not what normally what we think of if you actually say so what is all this teaching only all of it what is it about it's for taking us to liberation to enlightenment if you start off by saying you have to regard your waking like your dream our answer will be are you serious i can philosophically think about it even i as a monk can't live like that so we make a very practical distinction between waking and dreaming imagine right now if you were told that this is a lucid dream do you really live like that no it's very difficult so most people would be dissuaded from this kind of teaching if you say start by regarding your waking life as a dream no take your waking life to be real more real than the dream life and then start from there we will take you to brahmana the whole point is not to regard the viking life as a dream the whole point is to realize it is brahman and brahmana so this accepting the waking is distinct from the dream as ordinary people do as most of us naturally do that might be a better technique i quoted bradley last time he said it is not necessary that the truest philosophy will be the best religion it is not necessary that the truest philosophy will be the best religion most logical philosophy most elegant philosophy may not be the most it may not be the best method what is logical may not be psychological right right yeah so you are saying it is better logically is it better psychologically yeah but instead of throwing it out of the window is i understand like for for a practical day-to-day uh transactions is good i mean the first one you say that's that's probably more useful uh utility wise but then this also which is should we not also keep it along i mean just uh as something uh absolutely and they they should keep it and and that's mandooky is actually based on that this model which you are talking about manduk insist that you should t-shirt banduk he insists that you should regard the waking and dreaming as equivalent whole you cannot understand until you take that big step even that is not radical enough there is a third model there's a third model which is called non-origination where the universe is regarded as equivalent to deep sleep why are you stopping a dream regard it as a deep as this complete subject object distinction list blankness deep sleep the world is like that that is even more radical what they are saying is what was there in deep sleep in your deep sleep not a bit more is there in your dreams or your waking this vast world you're seeing in waking is exactly the same thing that you saw in your deep sleep it's perfectly all right there's not there's no problem here there is nothing to be achieved nothing to be realized nothing no problem at all to be resolved exactly what was in deep sleep is here now what are very radical position that's called the non-origination yeah so just uh just a final thing so should we take this approach like the um like uh the for the space exists inside the pot so that that's the day-to-day um transactional world that's the thing i mean of course i do not mean consciousness in that state like in this case the subtle body subtle body is something subtle bodies are limited to the physical body as far as practical purposes come but not limited in the sense of for example death of the physical body is not death of the subtle body it will continue it did not begin with the physical body it will not die with the physical body in that sense it pervades it is beyond the physical body all right quickly yes who's next you're next yeah thank you uh swamiji i mean you alluded to it in text 46 but it's a problem that i've been grappling with for some time you know if brahman is experienced here and now in the waking and dream state i understand that absolutely but somehow in deep sleep state that experience seems to be exposed facto i mean today when you were talking about it in text 46 it did say that you know that experience is recorded in uh the subtle body it could elaborate on it because that's something that's really getting me bogged down quite a bit yes experience you know what experience is like experience is consciousness plus object think about it all experiences are consciousness plus object now most of our experiences what we see in the waking and in the dream are consciousness plus object but in between the mind is there so the mind contributes many thing mind plus the sensory system so the experience becomes um visual auditory all factories with different kinds of sensory modalities are there plus the mind contributes i see i hear i like understand i remember i forget all of that is contributed by the mind and that's our general idea of experience consciousness through the mind and sensory system experiencing objects waking state consciousness shining upon the mind experiencing objects their dream state mind shuts down external world is not colonized thoughts and dreams are not cognized consciousness shines upon this blankness deep sleep state we hesitate to call this an experience because our common idea of experience is waking and dreaming when the mind is active when the mind shuts down we feel there is no experience but experience is consciousness shining on an object presence of an object illumined by consciousness absence of an object illumine by consciousness why because the very nature of consciousness is effulgence luminosity illumination but why is the experience in a sense after the event you know exposed facto that is because when you wake up now you tell me you tell me why is it so well i mean i could say what distinguishes the deep sleep uh from experience so called within quotes from waking and dream experience what mean it's it's the mind is not mind is not there that's why it seems to be exposed factor why because the experience we are exp we are used to what you talk about when you talk about experience is i am seeing i am hearing i am thinking what's this it's the mind when this is absent you know why this problem is there because we have not sufficiently distinguished the mind from consciousness we are mostly talking about mind and consciousness mixed up together and that's what we understand to be experienced if you clearly distinguish between mind and consciousness you will not be so worried about the absence of the mind there is no experience consciousness is still there the problem is not the activity or inactivity of the mind the problem is the inability to distinguish mind and consciousness but sorry to belabor the point swamiji but at that point am i not just accepting it merely because i'm being told because in the other two states waking and dreaming i i can actually you know feel it i can understand it i'm aware of it but in the deep sleep there is nothing since the mind is in there and that's where that bothers me further because it almost brings me back to the spot that the mind has a role to play i mean i know intellectually i understand what we've learned that you know it's the mind that's really in a sense also the biggest impediment in realizing my true nature my true self but still i mean i'm getting very caught up there i know and it's very natural you know what is happening it's like this there is a mirror and i the original face i'm looking at the mirror and i see myself reflected there that is what i call experience now i am not aware of my original face apart from the mirror and the reflected face when the mirror and the reflected face are not there i am saying the original face is not there srirama krishna says in one place he says if i always look at my reflection people will think i'm mad what was that all about it's this we think when the mirror and the reflected face are not there there is nothing but if you know you are aware of the original face like normally ordinary people get aware i don't need to see myself reflected all the time i'm there i'm perfectly all right sometimes i can take a mirror and look at my face fine but neither the mirror nor the reflected face is of importance to me because i know i exist apart from all of that i'm quite clear about it when a mirror is necessary i will use it otherwise i can let it go but there's something that the mirror does which i the original face cannot do mirror gives me my original face as an object and if by misfortune i'm unaware of the existence of my original face if there is something called the avarana the veil of on my understanding and my only awareness is mirror and reflected face then i will say everything is gone you are telling me that there is an original face but i don't see it it's like that don't change that experience okay brother what you should do is inquire use the vedantic method of inquiry drink drishya viveka panchakusha vivek to get a grasp even a mental intellectual grasp of what is actually the original face the original consciousness then this terrible clinging to a mind generated experiences will not be there anymore right now you can think about it this way you have two kinds of experiences presence of objects absence of objects think about try to think about deep sleep as the complete as an experience of complete absence can you it takes you to the verge of enlightenment there is something shining in deep sleep something looking upon the blankness of deep sleep that you cannot catch as an object because it's object is always a reflected face maybe that's the mistake i'm making swamiji that i am still looking for the mind and therefore looking for an object yes looking for the tenth person outside all right let's it's late today we'll quickly let's hear the questions at least energy good evening um a question about uh big purpose like if i understand correctly like ishwara has a purpose of maintaining the universe my uh the whole thing and let's say when a jiva gets enlightened and the body dies what's the purpose of the subtle body then the subtle body also if you get enlightened there won't be the subtle body also upon you should speak of it until enlightenment is there when the physical body dies the subtle body continues and gets newer and newer physical bodies and goes from lifetime to lifetime but upon enlightenment when that particular physical body dies it goes back to nature and the subtle body also will go back to nature little body is also a product of nature we will see subtle bodies also will be produced ishwara is going to roll out like a vaccine i think billions of subtle bodies and distribute it now very soon so so which means that at this point in time the experience of my uh stops you sort of you like you you don't sort of it's not uh the model like in christianity or other religions when you become an angel and you have like a role to play together with god in order to say that correct so a theistic idea would be your individuality is mentioned maintained that means your subtle body will still be there and you go to a higher spiritual world and maybe a higher spiritual purpose so that's a theistic idea in the vedantic ideas that you always wear the infinite and you realize that you are the infinite purpose when we talk about purpose purpose is always limitation purpose is always restriction always weakness always imperfection so what does it mean when there is imperfection so then does it mean that uh there is a uh ishwara eventually will cease to exist because it's also a limitation no uh there's one model of advaita vedanta in which there are some beginning less and endless entities like ishwara what you see when you say cease to exist there are two kinds of seizing to exist one is switch off nothing finished destroyed gone forever that's one season to exist another is it's easing to exist when you realize a dream is a dream or a movie is a movie so once you see that movie for and all the characters in the movie to be part of the movie have they ceased to exist in a sense yes you realize they never wear real but they are appearances in that sense ishwara and the world can continue there's no problem at all the movie can play on once you realize it's a movie it's fine you don't have to switch up the movie thank you yeah the difference in advaita vedanta is not that something has to be changed it is only difference between ignorance and knowledge not realizing and realizing um the untying of the rope which ties the donkey so-called rope which ties the donkey thank you yes thank you swamiji um follow up to why this that i asked last time um according to ongoing darwinian evolution homo sapiens may evolve into super intelligent beings who who reflect brahman in their neural hardware better than we do today so are we sort of heading into sort of a utopia of populated by jeevan mukti's eventually and is that consistent with advaitha um i would again say yes and no because evolution will only get give us better bodies better physical bodies better subtle bodies maybe more powers manifested in our subtle bodies so if we spiritually evolve and that's what we are actually what nature is making us do is to spiritually evolve lifetime after lifetime until we become enlightened this particular body is enough to get us to enlightenment human birth but superior bodies and superior subtle bodies can only give us more power in nature in maya so those are in in indian cosmology they were called devatas it will come again devatas devatas are literally it means shining beings so they have extraordinary power they are like superman and whatnot special man with more much more power than us but that's still within maya and they may or may not be enlightened and are we going to become super evolved beings maybe not um what might come about is this artificial intelligence powered robot bodies is extremely much more capable than us that might happen yes all right on that science fiction note let us end today omg [Music] shanti