Video 67

68. Mandukya Upanishad | Chapter 4 Karika 87-93

[Music] wait um so yesterday in the fourth chapter we were discussing verses 85 86 very where gowda father speaks about the results of being enlightened and how the virtues he talks about the humility of the enlightened person vipranam vinaya this is the humility the modesty of the enlightened person the tranquility under all circumstances the self-control he says about dhamma control self-control so all the saintly qualities which we see in enlightened persons they manifest naturally in the enlightened one in the g1 mukta now this reminded me yesterday i thought i'd bring it up today before we proceed i came across a paper in our one of our buddhist courses at the harvard divinity school where they were discussing different models of enlightenment you might be surprised to know that professors in harvard are studying enlightenment but they are so how do different tradition or different traditions in buddhism so the different ways they speak about enlightenment how is it described so they say they're two different distinct ways two distinct ways and both of these ways we see the in godrapada so two distinct ways are one is epistemological it is you can call it a paradigm shift model so i thought till now i was a body mind and now i'm enlightened i realize oh i am always this awareness in which a body mind appears in the world appears but this is a huge shift i really it's not something just i know i realize it becomes a living reality just as this i am this being this biological being this was an evident truth for me earlier before vedanta now after enlightenment it becomes an evident truth for me that i am this unlimited awareness this is called a paradigm shift it changes your entire worldview self-view worldview completely so this is one way of enlightenment it has happens um and this is the way actually gowdapada has been talking about it all throughout so from the very beginning you will see so from thinking of yourself as the waker now you think of yourself and you know yourself to be the turia the witness consciousness the other model of enlightenment is what is called as the ethical manifestation model the ethical manifestation model is an enlightened being is supposed to be far better than us happier deeply peaceful all loving full of love and joy and compassion and you know perfect control no anger or greed or lust so all of these saintly qualities are expressed maximally so this is called the expression of the buddha nature in buddhism so there are two models do you see the two models one is you realize in advaita vedanta you realize that you are brahmanathuria so this is paradigm shift not body mind but thoria not mortal but immortal not limited but unlimited and the other one is you express all these divine qualities in your life in your thought in your speech in your activities they manifested you now think about swami vivekananda's definition of religion religion is the manifestation of the divinity already within us so you can see which model is he talking about he's talking about the second one the ethical manifestation model and srirama krishna emphasized it that what we realize must also be expressed in our life in our behavior it's not enough to say that you know something you must be able to live it in your life so enlightenment it's not either or enlightenment means both of them there is a paradigm shift and there is this expression of wonderful qualities um this is jivan mukti the goal of advaita vedanta freedom while living in this body or while this body lives the earth while jiva who was in ignorance is now there free in this life itself so this jivan mukti means this expression manifestation of this divine qualities naturally one more point and we'll move on i think girish had asked this question and others to have it on occasion ask this question that does this happen instantaneously or does it take time you sometimes speak about it as a flash as before and after so the answer is again both the paradigm shift that happens in a flash yes one may not know go from not knowing anything about vedanta to reading about vedanta to understanding intellectually what's going on but then there comes a point very clear point you'll we will know when it happens to us when it's a clear clear breakthrough it is so powerful it will be the most powerful thing that that's ever happened in our lives the most profound thing that has ever happened or will ever happen in our lives and another characteristic is once that happens you will see clearly see the difference between understanding something intellectually and that breakthrough that breakthrough another thing that will happen is that breakthrough will never go away it will be there effortlessly just as right now we effortlessly feel we are this body and mind then you will feel effortlessly that you are the theory of the pure consciousness so that is a breakthrough which happens before that of course before that breakthrough it is preceded by study and reflection and meditation all of that that takes time okay ethical manifestation the ethical manifestation the manifestation of these divine qualities of love and compassion and self-control and purity um in thought and word and deed all of these qualities we have been practicing them these take time they have been practicing them earlier when nobody comes to enlightenment suddenly so we have been practicing them earlier and they have slowly come into our lives so we become good people very good people and after enlightenment we keep on expressing these things earlier there were practices and now what god is saying these are natural expressions of of what you know yourself to be if you are the turia then how would you live your life in this body and mind you would live live a wonderful life a peaceful tranquil absolutely relaxed caring feeling this oneness with everybody and express expressing compassion and love non-violence holding on to the truth at all cost these all things will come natural naturally to you but that also takes time the ethical manifestation continues before enlightenment before that paradigm shift the ethical manifestation is there because we are practicing it without that one cannot be spiritual we are being moral and ethical on purpose and after enlightenment after that paradigm shift we're still doing the same thing but now it's a very natural expression of what we realize ourselves to be yeah okay moving on now in the 87th verse onwards two verses gora pada takes us back to the basics the first chapter he repeats the teaching here in a couple of verses the central teaching the what you take away the core teaching from the entire mandukya what is the core teaching that look at your life look at yourself you have four aspects three of which you know and the fourth one which we are going to teach you the three which you know are your waking dreaming and deep sleep and by a consideration of these three by an examination of these three which we shall do together the manduka tells us we will discover the fourth one which is the reality which is called the thorium and that then you are enlightened and then that takes you beyond suffering that gives you the results of enlightenment and all of that so he's going to talk about just summarize one thing as we go into the verses the terms he uses are not common vedantic terms they are pretty well known in buddhist philosophy they are again borrowed from a buddhist milieu the terminology so it seems a little strange to people who have been studying vedanta in sanskrit these terms are not normally used but just the same teaching and in fact in a simpler form you will you'll just see let's go into these verses 87 [Music] s the ordinary waking state is admitted to be the duality co-existing with things of the empirical reality and fit to be experienced the object-less ordinary dream state is admitted to be without any object and yet as though full of experience so what is he done here he is simply describing waking and dreaming but the way he is describing it is this he says in the waking state we have certain experiences and there are objects corresponding to those experiences so there are objects in the world external to you there are objects in the world and we experience them we we see hear smell taste touch so he's just describing he's just giving a description of our experience of waking what does it consist of experiences within you and objects corresponding to those experiences so this is waking so uh he he uses the term upal upalam means experiences it just means seeing and hearing and smelling right now what you are doing you are you are seeing and hearing and smelling and tasting and touching these are experiences and corresponding to these experiences savvastu he uses the word term service to with object there are experiences with object and this is he calls it lokikam the ordinary worldly state by which he means waking then he talks about the dream state where he says avastu without any external object remember all this is an analysis we are doing a very common sense thing don't read too much into it just the way you feel anybody feels about waking and dreaming how what would anybody feel about dreaming as he explains it when we think about dreaming what do we say it was an experience no doubt about it so he says means experience there is experience in dreams but there are no objects avast so there are no object was to mean object external there are no external objects we wake up and we realize we never really went anywhere never really saw anybody never really did anything never really ate anything but those things we experienced so having certain experiences in your mind without actually interacting with anything external that's a dream and he calls it shuddham lokikam if you literally translate it means pure worldly a pure ordinary so the other one is just ordinary lokicum and this one is pure ordinary pure means in this sense subtle the external world when we have the ordinary experience in the world it grows external objects but when we have dream experience it's without any gross external object and all the exp things we experience are all subtle within the mind that's why maybe he has used the term shuddham lokikam and all this is dualistic he says do i am subject object duality is meant maintained waking or dreaming all right this this sets the stage for waking and dreaming now obviously he will go to dreamless sleep sushupti and then finally give you the insight into reality thurium which is all that we have learnt in the first chapter let's go to the verse number 88 avast it is traditionally held at the is without content and without experience um knowledge object and realizable thing are forever declared by the wise okay what does this mean if you look carefully you'll recognize he's talking about deep sleep avastu there is no object there anupallambam there is no experience there at this point those who have been listening carefully we immediately raise objections so swami you have been telling us that deep sleep is not an absence of experience it's an experience of absence uh you have been telling us in deep sleep we experience deep you know peace and joy when we wake up we say i was i did not know anything ignorance is experienced in deep sleep so yes to all of that but remember this is a very simple ordinary description of deep sleep so when we say deep sleep is not an absence of experience it is an experience of absence after all when you wake up do you not look back upon your deep sleep experience and say there i was and there was no nothing that i knew and so a blankness a deep restfulness i slept happily i did not know anything all that we say but it takes some reflection and trying to understand that's not the normal idea of deep sleep the normal that's why when i try to say that there is a you notice there's always little resistance because it's not not how we normally look at deep sleep that's why he says how do you feel about deep sleep there are no objects so he says ours too and there is no experience as such he says anupallavdham so neither experience nor object and he calls it lokodaram beyond worldly experience beyond worldly state beyond worldly means worldly state means the dualistic state of waking and dreaming and the deep sleep is sort of a potential state from which these states come waking and dreaming comes so he calls it beyond worldly lokottaram these are if you are com if you are familiar with advaithic terms you will be uncomfortable because these are not the terms normally in we are used in advaitha you are not familiar you have no problem at all so so we have these terms waking is called lokikam dreaming is called shuddham lokikam and deep sleep is called lokodaram in waking there are objects and there are experiences in dreaming there are no objects but still experiences and in deep sleep no object no experience and he says in the 88th verse so now we have three things gyanam gayam javidge the wise ones those who buddha again and again uses the term buddha buddha literally means the awakened one not just say the historical buddha buddhism one who is buddha means awakened so the awakened ones they declare these three when you look upon your waking dreaming and deep sleep notice three things one is gyanam one is gayam one is vidgam gyana means your experiences gayam means what you experience what do we experience we experience gross objects in the waking state we experience imaginations in the mind projections of our mind in the dream state and we experience um the blankness the the seed state basically ignorance in deep sleep or if you will you can sort of dismiss it as just blank nothing in deep sleep so these are what we experience in each three states so ganum knowledge or experiences game things which are experienced and the third thing is the important one we game what we are supposed to realize from all of this now this look back to the seventh mantra of the first chapter the most important mantra which meant nanta pragma is not the dreamer it is not the waker not the deep sleeper not something in between not the omniscience of god not unconscious and so on at the end it said sa atma that is the self and that has to be realized now he says in the uh in this verse the third thing apart from the knowers and the knowledge and the objects known in waking dreaming and deep sleep the important thing is what is to be realized from all of this the atman that is the fourth tourium objects of knowledge and experiences which you have and the one to be realized by a philosophical consideration of all these experience you have to notice it you have to recognize it within yourself um let me just hold on and lot of people have questions i know but we will just conclude this topic with the 89th verse so what you might say he concludes here in the 89th verse this process which is taught by mandukya gane when after the acquisition of the knowledge of the threefold object and the knowledge of the objects in succession the supreme reality becomes self-revealed then there emerges here for the man of supreme intellect the state of being all and enlightened forever so the three three kinds of experiences waking waking state is this you can call it the growth states tula avasta dream state you can call it the subtle state sukshmavastha deep sleep state we know it is called the karana or causal state by experiencing these three sequentially waking dreaming deep sleep and again waking dreaming and deep sleep and so on and then reflecting upon it with the help of the mandukya as we have done one comes to the realization of the fourth he says kramena it becomes evident that that vote is not mentioned here we have to insert it that the fourth becomes revealed towards the turiya this pure consciousness which is not the waking not the waker not the dreamer not the deep sleeper it is the consciousness in which appears the pair of waking and waking experiences dreamer and dream experiences deep sleeper and the blankness of deep sleep in which appears the gross subtle and causal that fundamental basal or or foundational consciousness that i am not one of these waker dreamer or deep sleeper which come and go you know and we have seen how we get this realization and very simply for example if the waker comes and goes you know i give you the example of my dream i was in africa and all of that so the waker is the one who went to sleep and was here in manhattan in the bedroom and sleeping and the dreamer was the person the dream person was in africa in a different place different time having different experiences and then the whole thing disappeared when deep sleep comes so there we there are no distinct deep sleeper pragnya and the deep sleep experiences they are merged into one indistinct hole it's called pragyana ghana or a mass of indistinguishable mass of subject and object but in all of these states i have to say that when i look back upon them i have to say they were all my states so the waker was not in the dream the dreamer was not in the waking the deep sleeper isn't neither then who is that i who owns up to all three states that i must be independent of the waker dreamer and deep sleeper it must be independent of the waking world dreaming world and the deep sleep darkness that eye is my real eye that pure consciousness arturia which is not limited by the gross subtle or the causal which is always my real nature so that flashes i am that the upanishad said i am atma brahma this very self who thought himself to be the waker in dreams thinks himself to be the person the dream person in deep sleep you don't think yourself anything but when you wake up you say that i was dreaming i was in deep sleep this is in error we thought like this when we become enlightened we realize we are that fourth the fourth thuriya which is really the one it is the one consciousness in which all of these three appear and disappear so he says krameda when you examine these in sequence swayam it flashes you cannot know the ultimate reality this mind of the waker cannot actually know the ultimate reality but when the ignorance is dispelled by knowledge vedantic knowledge dispels ignorance about the self in the mind the real self today which is always shining that shininess is now recognized for what it is that is enlightenment um sarvagyata i have explained earlier omniscience is translated as omniscience but omniscience in what na what uh sense server here means everything everything here means whatever you experience in waking whatever you experience in dreams and whatever is in the potential state in deep sleep the gross subtle and causal stool sukshma karana all entities are what is meant by sarva all of them they are nothing but this turria just as all kinds of ornaments are the gold or the all pottery is just the clay in the same way the stury around appears as gross subtle and causal sarva and gaya the turian itself is consciousness gear means consciousness so sarvadya sir literally means omniscience but survive here the omni here it means waking dreaming deep sleep universe says let us say and the gear means the consciousness the turia the turia itself is everything so that is realized in that sense omniscience practically what does it mean in every experience you will now recognize stories just like once you understand what clay is when you go to pottery barn you in every pot in every jar you recognize the clay the designs may be different you may not know every design that's there in the catalog but you know if it's made of clay it will be clay that much you know for sure even without experiencing that is sarva gyatas omniscience sarvatra everywhere wherever you may be in whichever state you realize that that is the reality bhavati mahadhya one the the great one the one of great intelligence or wisdom the one who is enlightened who knows the self if you know the self you know everything how is that possible because literally you see here the self is everything it is ayamatma brahma this very self is brahman brahman is the reality of the entire universe if you know the clay you know all things made of clay what do you know you mean you know that they are made of clay if you know the gold you know the all things all the ornaments made of gold that each ornament you take up you can say the reality there is gold in the same way once you know that that i am the thorium you know everything in this world in that sense sarva gyata sarvatra in all circumstances everywhere um in this very life so it's not something that you attain after death or going to heaven or something like that right now in this very life this is what we can expect it is all just a recap recapitulation of what happened in chapter one just with a lot of new terminology but in a very simplified way you can see it has just been stripped down to its bare bones the argument um before let me see yeah before we go on now is going to change the subject so before we go on we can take the comments uh and questions yeah swamiji uh once you had mentioned start but today we were discussing for seeker ethical manifestation takes time and effort especially corporal qualification as it does not come naturally to us so the only part seems to be sadia like said whether the ever accomplished non-duality can it be achieved without effort yes look at the last sentence which you just said the siddha advaita the ever accomplished advaita can it be achieved without any effort without any effort so literally if you translate that do you know what you just said that which is ever achieved can it be achieved it is ever accomplished the what gowda party here is talking about is that siddharth that is ever accomplished non-duality which is yourself which cannot be accomplished because it is ever accomplished not because it is impossible or very difficult because it is already accomplished because it is effortlessly accomplished can it be accomplished with any effort you would say the answer is no not because it is very difficult but because it is already done so how much effort do you need to now right now to become punam how much effort what spiritual practices do you need to become poonam nothing effortlessly choicelessly you might even say helplessly i am this one similarly even more so you are thorium already now what remains to be done he'll talk about the southern aspect of it in the in the next words he'll talk about it what remains to be done there is a scope of practices but that is different he will talk about that now um so this is something to be recognized that i am already the theory that is that epistemic shift paradigm shift of enlightenment which i was talking about does that answer your question yes yes yes all sadhana is to correct this error that i am not advaitam i am not already non-dual see because we are experiencing a waking world as he said it is dwayam it is dualistic there are objects and there are experiences so clearly subject object difference is there now our problem is according to advaita is that you are experiencing and you are taking this to be real just like i was running in africa away from a lion subject object relationship i am there threatened by the object lion and i am taking some action now our from a waking standpoint what advice will you give how to fight with the lion how to climb the tree no you will say none of that matters because it is not real that you are completely safe from the lion is that accomplished or do they have to do some sadhana it is accomplished because neither the lion exists nor are you in africa nor is the tree there nor do you have to save that body which you see in the dream no but if there is anything to be done it is to correct the error that those things are real in fact you can even go on seeing it only thing you need to know it is a dream when you wake up from the dream after that also you can go back into the dream similarly a jeevan mukhtar sees all this we'll come back into the same waking but for the g1 mukta what is important in the waking is the turya is the fourth for us that is completely hidden and this waking world is absolutely real that's why we feel something has to be done here it's like saying what has to be done to the pot in the pottery barn to make it this thing you are calling clay nothing has to be done you just have to recognize it all after enlightenment is karma still operative in jainism there is a distinction between destructive and non-destructive karma destructive karma is gone with enlightenment but non-destructive karma persists like the karma determining one's lifespan the physical characteristics of his body etc yes so jainism is actually very specialized on karma as professor long knows so they have very detailed detailed discussions about karma the main obstruction to enlightenment is karma and how do you get rid of the obstructing karma that's the whole of sadhana and it's a long and difficult and hard road now in advaita vedanta the traditional shankar right and post shankara advaita vedanta they will talk about something called the karma which remains after enlightenment the karma malaysia so that means after enlightenment also if the body and mind in this life has been produced by prarabdha karma and after enlightenment if all karma is destroyed and upanishad says all karma is destroyed mandarin says once you realize that transcendent eminent reality tasman once you realize that transcendent imminent reality that is brahman all your karma the enlightened ones karma is destroyed so if that is so then how do we still see the enlightened one how does the enlightened one still have a have a body and move around with us and go through various experiences so they say that giving different examples this is a traditional explanation they give different examples that suppose um the wheel of the potter is rotating and the potter finishes his work on the potter's wheel and walks up the wheel because he had given it a big push the wheel still rotates a couple of circles and then comes to a rest that still rotating is on the because of the influence of the past the momentum pass momentum um then another example is the arrows so an archer is shooting arrows and there are arrows in the quiver there's an arrow on the bow and suddenly if he decides not to shoot any more arrows he can throw away the arrows in the quiver you can even throw away the arrow which has set on the bow but the arrow which is released is already in flight he can't do anything about that that will go and hit the target so the body which is already giving results prague the karma which is giving results to this body it will go on till the death of this body that's how they explain jivan mukti who explain advaitans especially posh shankar advaitans by this leftover karma let us say and that will determine the lifespan and the physical characteristics of the body so that that way they're very similar but again this is an apparent explanation shankaracharya also says this in aparokshana bhuti at the end that this is sort of a provisional explanation because after enlightenment you realize karma also is not real we we saw gaurav aadhaar spent so much time in criticizing and deconstructing the whole theory of karma that it just can't be real so karma is an explanatory device at the vehicle transactional level so yes so that's the ultimate position of the of gaura path or advaita viranth there's no real thing ultimately apart from brahman you are brahman you realize your brahman from your perspective from the perspective of the others an explanatory mechanism is required and so current malaysia leftover karma things like that one may hold on to okay another question in the chat from sravani what's the nature of the so-called bliss in deep sleep does it differ from the bliss attributed to brahma yes yes so bliss is not attributed to brahman or turia bris bliss is the very nature of brahma nathuria but that bliss is infinite without limit that bliss does not increase or decrease which place brahman ananda which is bliss itself so vivekananda said it's not that brahman is happy it is happiness itself and it's not that brahman exists it is existence itself not that brahman knows it is knowledge itself so sat chit ananda that is brahman but the bliss which is experienced in turi in deep sleep and in our day-to-day life that comes from the anandamaya kosha the final sheath final within quote quote unquote covering ah before you realize the self so the anand the causal state so that is full of it is full of the radiance of brahman let us say it's a deeply peaceful state and that comes and goes once you snap out of deep sleep it's gone um so that is not it is a reflection of the ananda of um or the brahman and that is reflected in the maya kosha yeah there's a huge discussion about this in the anandam adhikaranam of brahmasutra anyway i may be anticipating the next sutra but i'd like to know whether goropoda lays stress on ethical prerequisites that shankara does for qualifications in order to even embark on the study of advaita yes um you are right you are anticipating what's he what he is going to say in the next ah kartika about moral and ethical practices and other practices they're going to come now um but and also you saw in the earlier karika he said that they must manifest in the life of an enlightened person and the enlightened person manifests these moral qualities naturally what is a matter of practice for others is a matter of natural expression for the enlightened being it's one thing for the enlightened person but it's another for us who are seeking enlightenment yes for us uh he is going to talk about it next what kind of ethical practice is necessary all advaitans without any exception they would say moral and ethical practices without any question they have to be there otherwise advaita is not going to work any spiritual life is not going to work for you so in the translation for this words 8d6 given in the book says when after the acquisition of knowledge and the knowledge of the objective succession the supreme reality becomes central then etcetera so there is a when then yeah we spent all of this time establishing non-causality yes then in this words it is saying causality when you do this then that happens so how is that explained yes so remember here is the teaching and this is a recap of the teaching of the first chapter when you look at the waking and the dreaming and the deep sleep and then uh upon the reflection doing shavana mana and nidity hasan as you know guided by the mandukya you come to this realization i am the thuriya so there is time and there is study and there is effort all of that is put in and then there is this flash of understanding so there is causality working there definitely at the left but still that's duality once you realize that your thorium you will realize that there is no causality that thorium itself which you always wear you are and you always will be it does not come from anything even the ignorance and the removal of ignorance there is no such thing in fact in the com next couple of verses even the thing like enlightenment he will say that actually you're always enlightened even enlightenment and he says even enlightenment is not required and we'll we'll explain why there's a very good reason why yeah so this this verse has to be not taken as after all of the non-causality is established it's supposed to be from the first this is a recapitulation of the teaching the essential teaching of the mandukya remember a lot of what god apathy is saying is from the highest perspective from the enlightened beings perspective often a lot of things which we hear from enlightened teachers in especially in non-advaithic contexts is meant as teaching for us but if you press them and because that's what they are there for that's there for they're there to teach us and guide us but if you press them what is it like for you they would sort of jettison most of that what they have told us it is necessary for us what is it like from the roof the view from the roof is not the view from the bottom of the ladder not from the middle of the ladder you have to get a climb up and let go of the ladder then you get the view from the roof but the thing is as a teacher if you talk about the view from the roof it's not of much use to us because we think we are in on this spiritual journey gaurav other emphasizes that think you think you are on a spiritual journey actually there is no spiritual journey that's what he wants to say and he'll come he will say use words like adi buddha you are buddha's from eternally from the very beginning even now adi shantaha all samsara is never there you're always peaceful and beyond samsara whether you think you're enlightened or not he's going to talk about that little later thank you yes you know once you have known who you are i mean if you are in that state of thuria then is it possible that temporarily off and on you still get caught up in the unreal world so to speak and then you sort of remember again and if so if that is what would happen then does it ever cease to be there so that you're always aware right who you are the answer to is a good question and it's answer to both of these both parts of this question is yes do you ever get caught up there will be a stage after the breakthrough when you seem to get caught up why do i say seam listen carefully who gets caught up it's that ego which thinks of itself as the waker and the knowledge of the theory is already there in the background but it thinks of itself as a waker and thinks that it's caught up in samsara there is a problem and then you react just like it was reacting earlier in anger or irritation or whatever or in disappointment but now when you bring the knowledge of the turia to bear in me the radiance this consciousness there arises this ego and its object and it's reacting you'll see the problem belongs to the ego and to do to its objects to its world the waker and the waker's world you are neither you are the reality underlying both of them it's like falling into the dream and being chased around by the by the lion now am i really caught up again in that problem with the dream no i am not but it seems to be caught up for the time being now when you again reflect back and you dissolve that problem so these problematic situations are actually very useful for the advaitan at that level this is an advanced advaitan person who has already got clarity then all these challenges which come in day to day life these are all occasions for needed asana for vedantic contemplation for manifesting the theory in that difficult situation till it becomes natural till it becomes natural in every situation you are that ever peaceful pure consciousness you are that but you recognize that naturally now who recognizes the mind recognizes it is the mind which has to be immersed again and again so after that in initial breakthrough many of the great enlightened ones you will notice like ramana maharshi or sriram krishna also they remain in samadhi for a long time in actual yogic samadhi why is that necessary if everything is thorium then why is that necessary it is necessary for the mind not necessary for thorium the mind has to be immersed in this new breakthrough till it becomes saturated from this new perspective then with eyes closed or eyes open it is the same reality yes my question is that it seems to me that advaita starts with tyria as the only reality and argues that the empirical world is illusory so it goes from you might say from idealism to argue against realism or materialism now is there any any way to start with materialism and end up in the idealism in other words prove the inevitability of one reality that projects appearances is there in philosophy and indian philosophy are the other direction to end up in the same place basically not just that yes there is if you take the the most common approach is actually a pretty realistic approach it is the sri drishti approach which is uh most common in in the upanishads and in shankara's commentaries he starts with our common sense approach of the universe that the universe that we are subjects experiencing objects a pretty realistic world view and then he goes on to show that there is an underlying reality for the subject object so to start with an idealistic point of view which is drishti srishti it is a more advanced way but it's not necessary you can start with the realistic point of view but ultimately you have to discover this background existence existence consciousness yeah so in fact some philosophers have modern philosophers have actually tried to argue that shankara espoused realism not idealism which might seem very strange because but but they have a point as far as this transactional world is concerned realism is a better foundation or better beginning step than idealism because idealism is not some not the way we commonly think but in both cases whether you begin idealistically or realistically you have to transcend that and go to the absolute so they say that advaita vedante is absolutism and neither realism nor idealism yes hi swamiji um i feel i tried to uh write this question but apparently i did it incorrectly um we've all those of us following the history have experienced the disillusionment and confusion when a number of gurus um who were held to be enlightened uh misbehaved or behaved immorally and so the question for many of us has always been there are two possible explanations one that those people were not truly realized or realization as defined by states of consciousness doesn't necessarily bring with it a perfection of moral behavior uh i i'm wondering what you or maybe there's an explanation a third or fourth explanation but how how how do you feel about this this is actually relevant to what we were discussing just a little while ago there are different yes different models of uh realization so there is this um a paradigm shift an ethic an epistemological model then you suddenly see this reality which is not evident to the rest of us are not even evident was not evident to the seeker before realization before enlightenment you suddenly see this and it's very powerful very vivid and constant or all right is it reflected in life in behavior in thought and speech the teaching of advaita and indeed of all spiritual traditions indian of course but all spiritual traditions is essex and morality are intimately collected with connected with spirituality one can be ethical without being particularly spiritual but one cannot be spiritual without being ethical so if one claims to be very spiritual and and still does something that's evidently not ethical there's something at least at the very least something very wrong with uh the spirituality that's being claimed so this is that's what god apathy says here and here it in in just this verse which we saw in 86 i think it's a natural expression if a person is enlightened then he says this is the natural life this an enlightened being should lead or it should be evident moral in action and in thought and in speech all of these things should be evident in the life of an enlightened being now specifically if you mean teachers who have fallen or been disappointed notice in the tradition this is well known that one may actually get genuine breakthroughs and yet not be a given mukta far less a guru so the strong recommendation for people who do get the breaks and it's a pretty advanced state is to stay with the sadhana with to stay with the spiritual practices until it's natural why would somebody with a clear breakthrough why would that person still behave uh in a problematic way there's a strong reason for that because that that the paradigmatic that shift in uh in the view the epistemological shift the paradigm shift is has not yet soaked through to the other levels of the mind um so which still carries on under the impetus of past behavior an example which we see in um sriram krsna's guru tota puri who was obviously an enlightened being and yet lost his temper when he was sitting in in meditation and had lit the sacred fire was instructing sriram krishna the the night watchman of the dakshineshwar temple came to take a little bit of fire for his pipe for smoking tobacco the hubble bubble i think and it's sacred for sannyasis that fire so when he tried to take a little bit of fire from there thousand immediately flew into a rage and i think he chased him around and srirama krishna couldn't stop laughing and clapping in delight and he says i have seen the limits of your brahmagana seeing the limits of your that everything is brahman there's one tranquil you don't seem very tranquil you seem very upset and but the thing is immediately acknowledges it and nobody ever saw him angry again so this is the difference so something may go on under the impetus in fact he will talk about this later on in the next verse actually what should not be allowed to go on and what can be allowed to go on certain things will go on the mental makeup of each the character of each enlightened being is different very natural given their background and many things will continue which will be which will distinguish each enlightened being from the other but what should not be allowed to go on so that will come yeah so in many cases there may be outright frauds in many cases they may not actually be frauds and those are the tragedies of spiritual life that a person may actually slip away under the temptations of overwhelming popularity and with all kinds of attractions power they become cult leaders a tremendous amount of power is given to such people and they have a kind of charisma to them um after the world parliament speeches you know this vivekananda uh he is there in the parliament of world religions and he has given this talk to tremendous ovation one of those talks there and this lady who who writes the her remedy senses of that event uh she says that i saw so many people jumping over benches and chairs to get to vivekananda and you know talk to him or touch the hem of his robe and young women girls running across and this lady she stays at the back and she says uh well my boy if you can withstand that then you're truly a god so mrs blodgett yes mrs blodgett yes bills uh thank you bill yeah so how do you withstand that if your realization is 100 that you know you are that without any doubt and that is also reflected in at every level of thought and speech and behavior yeah that's why that ethical manifestation is very important vivekananda's definition of religion is the manifestation of the divinity already within us not just the knowledge or the realization of the divinity manifest even if the word uh realization is different from the word knowledge so you may know something you may have even seen it but realization is making it real in in life you know where walk the talk where the what the rubber hits the road or yeah yes thank you yes anybody else uh when in a yogic yogic path when people get irritable i'll give you a brief answer the idea of use the i'm using the patanjali yoga term asam pragyat samadhi which is yogas chittariti nirodha all modifications of the mind sees there it is a practice with a purpose every practice has a goal in mind and the goal of that is to appreciate the witness consciousness in its real nature tada drastic swaroopia that is the goal from patanjali yoga sutra the witness consciousness should be appreciated or realized in its real nature what do you mean what what is wrong at other times when you are not in samadhi when the mind is active the witness consciousness is obscured and identified with the activities of the mind britty rupia mitharatra briti means modifications of the mind sarupam identification consciousness becomes indistinguishable from the modifications of them which is exactly our state now and absolute calmness of the mind which is asan pragyat samadhi prolonged is very helpful in realizing the distinction between atman and mind between purusa and prakriti so that's the yogic approach the vedantic approaches that why do you have to shut down the mind the problem is not one of restlessness of the mind the problem is one of ignorance and the solution is knowledge and knowledge comes by the instruction from a source of knowledge that is upanishads and then investigation knowledge arises out of investigation not out of sitting quietly so that is the vedantic approach and in this others indotarakhand you will see they'll say this direct philosophical enquiry which you find in the gowda pada and karikas he is not recommending deep meditation of the yogic variety not shutting down he's recommending meditation when you understand what the teaching is then you stay with it for a long time focus on it that kind of meditation called nidir dhyasana he is recommending um so the uttarakhand sadhus will say this kind of vedantic richard is for uttama dhikari the best qualified students are supposed to enquire this in this way as godopath is showing those who are middle adhikaris not so acute not so sharp they are supposed to practice yoga and go into samadhi but this is the vedantic approach but when taku used to touch like when touched and he had he saw that everybody everything was you know this bright light and all that stuff what was that so that is uh it's something that you find in kashmir shaivism it's like shambhavi the very advanced spiritual masters can actually transmit that realization straight to you it's a powerful that was breakthrough realization yeah yeah definitely some kind of realization definitely yeah all right now let us go on 90 is an important verse it's perhaps the only verse where god father touches upon what we normally think of as spiritual practice so he just touches upon it remember this is mandukya so ninety he again things to be rejected realized accepted and made ineffective are known to be unknown at the very beginning from among them the three accepting the realizable are are traditionally held to be only fancies resulting from ignorance so it's very gowdapada he says um there are there are there are four things he talks about here one is here things that have to be given up or rejected the other thing is the thing that has to be realized and the third thing is to be acquired certain practices and qualities to be acquired pakhyani it's a very interesting news certain things to be cooked to be roasted literally so what does that mean these things have to be known he says viggen up before beginning spiritual life these things have to be clear these four things have to be clear what is to be rejected rejected or or transcended let's say what is to be realized and what are the qualities to be acquired and what are the certain defects to be roasted or you know given up so what are these hair to be transcended or rejected waking dreaming deep sleep the three states what we totally identify ourselves as i am this person this body and mind and this is my word and now notice you cannot reject it or transcend it unless you find something that transcends it you can't just say give it up this is all unreal it's like i was in the middle of the dream and running away from the lion in africa if you and if you appear there and suddenly in the middle of that dream and say look swami all this is a dream give it all up you are not in africa it's not a lion this unless the waking state is clear to me i can't give up the dream state what will i give it up based on what i have to wake up from the dream in order to treat it as a dream so similarly you have to realize the thorium otherwise it's no use saying that you are not the waker and this waking world is false false with respect to what in terms of the waking world definitely your waker and this is a waking world there is a job and there are people there are problems there's coronavirus all of that you have to deal with it but what advaita is saying that there is a deeper underlying reality right there which you are not recognizing if you do recognize it and you see it as your real nature this will become like a dream inconsequential so you are you have to reject this identity with the duality in waking in dreaming and the potential duality which is there in deep sleep so this is called hair to be given up what is to be acquired to be not known beginner that i am the turya i am brahman ahamram has me this has to be realized remember these are four things to be realized before or four things to be known understood before you start off in spiritual life so what's the goal what appears to be absolutely real in my common place life this is actually an error a mistake this is to be transcended first second this can be transcended only when i know the reality which is that i'm thorium the fourth then number three at piyani some things to be acquired what are to be we all know this the fourfold qualifications viveka vairagya the the viveka is the discrimination or the discernment of the eternal from the non-eternal based on reading based on instruction based on what you have been taught you have not realized it yet then vairagya dispassion for the non-eternal and then the six-fold treasures we have all studied this shama dhamma uparati titiksha shraddha samadhan all of these i'm not translating and then finally mumukshutu an intense desire to realize to come out of this problematic life so all of these are but not just these everything else that you do in spiritual life for enlightenment come to you know you discover vedanta come to zoom class spend your summer afternoons listening to an abstruse 1500 year old indian philosopher the great sacrifices people make for enlightenment some become monks and give up every other pursuit in life just to pursue this thing all of these are appyani to be acquired in life for your spiritual pursuit and then there is a whole host of defects which hold you back in your spiritual pursuit kama krodhalova lust and anger and greed these have to be given up that's the fourth one the bakkyani so this the major defects suramar krishna said kaam kanchan tag giving up of lust and gold so these things have to be they're going to make a clear effort to push these things out of your life first of all that which is clearly immoral has to be given up then that which is moral but yet selfish has to be spiritualized through karma yoga and then there remains certain other smaller desires so there is that thing which comes in pakia need to be roasted what he means is this sriracha krishna also uses this example it's an old vedantic example notice that every um enlightened being is also a human being for example they have their little peculiarities little eccentricities idiosyncrasies so srirama krishna likes jalebi swami vivekananda likes chocolate ice cream now is this against enlightenment or not if somebody might say why would an enlightened being like jelly be so what is the choice would that enlighten being like jalebi or chocolate ice cream or nothing would he go around with a bitter sour lemon lemon sucking face that everything is horrible would that be enlightenment no certain makeup of the mind which was there before enlightenment will continue in the jivan mukta but they should not be such that will provide any kind of obstruction to either enlightenment or to the manifestation of that enlightenment now what happens is these small desires the small expressions uh of of a personality which make a person unique they have they will not obstruct enlightenment they do not respect abstract enlightenment or an expression of enlightenment also so srinam krishna gives an example a burnt rope it still retains the look of a rope but if you try to tie somebody with it it will just disintegrate into ashes now pakhya the very term used here roasted it refers to seeds if you roast the seeds they'll still look like seeds but they'll never germinate again so these small desires in the mind they're roasted by the fire of enlightenment they will never germinate into anything that can hold back the enlightened person you should be ready to have if it hap go things go your way which you want them to go enlightened person also may have preferences if they do not go your way you should be equally tranquil that's the distinction between an uh of a very spiritual person let alone enlightened and a worldly person we get upset if things do not go uh our way swami bhutashan and just told us about sadhus in uttarakhand monks in the himalayas they have a saying among themselves they depend on arms for their food so and it changes from time to time sometimes they get good food sometimes mediocre sometimes nothing the saying is so sometimes you get thick ghee and you know rich food sometimes just a handful of gram and sometimes not even that and you should be absolutely equal serene about all of this so that is when the seeds are roasted i still remember this is a very funny incident a senior monk of our order he was in bellurmut and a young boy had come to join the order and the monk gave the senior monk gave such an example which we found it funny but it's instructive a very small thing somebody bought tea for that monk and for the young man who had come to join and this monk told him look we wanted tea and the tea was brought to us it came but it might not have come and if you are okay with all of that then you can be a monk now it's a very small thing he said but it's it's very instructive and that stands not just for the t coming or not coming it stands for everything in life going your way or not going according to your preferences that's the ultimately from an enlightened perspective person's perspective the roasted the roasted seed but remember here there is a very strong warning the major pulls which tie us to worldly life um lust and anger and greed these have to be transcended there you cannot argue that oh anger is there it's just a roasted seed looks like anger but it's not really anger there you can't argue that then there is something wrong but again you have to actually investigate deeply uh it uh it's not so obvious a person may be very serene but just maybe calm and quiet and even tempered by nature it may not be particularly spiritual and another person we have seen very spiritual people they might fly to fly into a flash of anger but again go let's go of it immediately very fast so amit brahman and ji there's a demonic sense premananda ji was a disciple of sri ramakrishna he was the manager of balur mutt very popular among young men who came to became monks at that time so one young man writes i was talking with swami premananda who with his usual very loving way he was talking to me and then he there was a novice a brahmacari a novice monk who came had done something wrong and primarinji turned around and scolding him and primary was very fair so when he was coding his face became red with anger and i was standing there and watching i think oh wow this monk has anger the moment i thought that premananji turned towards me with the sweetest of smiles and most calm expression and talk to me sweetly again within a minute he turned around and face became red and started scolding that other monk now so these things you have to watch out for that we may not what what our in enlightened being is may not be so obvious to us from our perspective we may be too hasty to judge um all right let me go on ah professor jeffrey long has pointed out something i wanted to say this so thank you for pointing it out so ramakrishna called ego of wisdom or ego of devotion rami bhakti rami also the difference between paka ami or kacha ami paka means ripe or roasted and kacha means unripe the unripe ego is identified with body bind waker and with a host of problems ragadvaisha likes and dislikes which are crowding the mind and they are i like this i hate that the ripe ego which sriram krishna talks about is the roasted thing that where it's the same mind same thoughts are there same likes and dislikes none of it can bind you because the ego is no longer you you are the turia you observe the same mind with its assorted furniture but none of it can bind you anymore so that's the ripe ego and the ripe ego is usually a devotee's ego i am the servant of the lord or agyani's ego which is nothing other than chidananda rupa hashem i'm of the nature of shiva i'm the nature of bliss all right i just wanted to do a couple of more verses remember at the end of this he says smith smither agora power touch among all of these which among all of which the four the three to be transcended waking dreaming deep sleep the one to be realized i am the thorium and the qualities to be cultivated appyani and the defects to be overcome or roasted pakhyani and that also refers back to phil's question which of the desires or the tendencies of the mind are to be absolutely given up and which others can be left safely the strong ones which tie us to this world are to be absolutely given up there should be no immorality left in the life of an enlightened being there are smaller ones which give lent distinctiveness to every individuality preferences you know jillipi and chocolate ice cream they can be left but they are to be roasted they are roasted by the fire of knowledge so that they don't bind you anymore so now what godapathy says among these four among these four the second one i am thorium is the only reality the other three waking dreaming and deep sleep and giving them up giving them not identifying with them and the qualities to be cultivated and the defects to be given up they are all appearances yeah and so this is what makes gaurav dangerous immature mind will immediately say oh so he said all ethical cultivation is an appearance and need not bother at your own risk you need not bother god or father never said that but remember governor pastor will never fail to show us the view from the top of the everest okay he is very thoroughly consistent and honest there but you have to be very mature to see what he is telling you um then what is his view so from now on till the almost the very end he will continue to give us some very beautiful verses um showing us the highest point of view let me do three quickly 91 92 93 then we'll end with the some closing comments and questions 91 prakriti [Music] so this is from the ultimate standpoint from turia standpoint all souls all the jivas they should be known as naturally analogous like space and as eternal there is no plurality among them anywhere not even by a jot or tiddle so i was little taken aback by this word it looks so much like little but gambhiranji has used the word till and i vaguely knew that it meant a little i but i have to look it up and no wonder it's archaic it just means a tiny portion a tiny part so in the tiniest in the smallest in the littlest sense also there is no plurality there is only non-duality actually speaking there is only the non-dual brahman thuriyam and you are that choicelessly one might even say helplessly that and he compares it with space just like when you look at the physical world everything in this world is in space so everything that we experience in life waking dreaming deep sleep spiritual life worldly life whatever is all appearing in you the consciousness and is nothing apart from you the consciousness they have no independent reality and that's the definition of mythia or falsity what is false about them that they appear to exist on their own to use a buddhistic terminology from their own site they appear to exist from their own side as it were no they don't no more than the lion which chased me through the plains of africa and the tree neither the lion nor the plains of africa nor the tree nor the sky nor even the swami body there none of them had any existence apart from the dreamer's mind i the dreamer's mind similarly here apart from you the consciousness none of this has any existence also just as the sky is not affected by the purity or impurity the goodness or the badness of the things which exist in space sky remains pure similarly you are completely unaffected by the purity impurity of the appearances in you as long as you identify with the theory as you know that you are that and there are many many other uh similarities oneness the sky though it appears to be divided you have a 10 buckets you think there are 10 spaces inside the sky you make a big multi-storied building in what was open space then you feel that there are 100 apartments there but the space is not divided it just appears to be divided similarly when many bodies and many minds appear that one consciousness appears to be many g was many sentient beings but it is actually one non-dual consciousness even now when seven billion human beings and countless billions of animals and other lower creatures appear it's still one undivided consciousness and you are that not a part of it even it's wrong to say a whole of it there's no part and hold there you are that moving on um so nahi nanatham when we keep on talking about all sentient beings all sentient beings all jivas don't come under the misapprehension that there are many jivas there's actually one theory it just appears to be many because of the presence of many bodies and minds just like one sky appears to be many because of many pots or many rooms ah these two verses 92 and 93 i'll just read them out very beautiful very poetic all the souls that is the sentient beings are by their very nature illumined from the very beginning and their characteristics are well determined he to whom ensues in this way the freedom from the need of any further acquisition of knowledge becomes fit for immortality let me just say a little bit about that first of all this this term adi buddha survey dharma all sentient beings are buddhas not just they have the capacity to become buddhas to become illumined not just that they can realize that they are thoria you are the turia and in fact he says you are ever illumined so this is something startling because we know it's standard in advaita vedanta to say that from the very beginning you are brahman you are brahman you where you are you just don't know it and you will be there's choicelessly you are the absolute and that's good news in itself but he goes further we think that yes yes i know that but i have to be enlightened i have to come to realize that i am not enlightened yet so if buddha means enlightened then i am abuddha i am not enlightened or i am the hindi buddhu buddha means a fool so i am not yet buddha i am buddhu he says no you are adi buddha you are buddha you are enlightened and when when did i become enlightened you ever always wear see what it means is this first of all from from the turria perspective all of us are already joistlessly thorium from his perspective there is no problem at all this whole enlightenment business is whose problem it's our problem for a long time life after life we have been engaged in worldly projects and having matured thank god over lifetimes now we have undertaken a spiritual project but even the spiritual project like worldly projects are projects in ignorance even the drive and the seeking for enlightenment is still within ignorance when one becomes enlightened from godhapath's perspective what is important see look at it this way from our perspective what is important i'll give you two things one the fact that you are brahmana you are ever one with god you are satchida this is one the second is i have to realize that i have to become enlightened which of the two is important to us right now you will feel as spiritual seekers we all feel that it's the second one yes yes i know that i'm brahmana but i really don't know i have to realize it and that's the thing that's why i'm here i don't need you to tell me i'm brahmana i need you to tell me how to know that i'm brahmana how to become enlightened so that's our choice between the two that you are brahman and you need to get enlightened we would say that the second thing is very important because without that second thing we still suffer from samsara but here is the beauty from the enlightened person's perspective the fact that you are the absolute that god is indeed everything inside and outside that is the overwhelming fact that a few of you think that you are unenlightened that god is playing this game of being an enlightened and being a spiritual seeker and trying to become enlightened this is fun for the enlightened one he doesn't take it seriously from the enlightened ones but see from our perspective who is our hero if you want to become rich the billionaires are your heroes if you want to become learned the nobel prize winners are your heroes and if you want to become spiritual the enlightened the buddhas the ramakrishnas the vivekananda the jeevan muktas are our heroes we want to be like that but from from the enlightened persons perspective from godhapath's perspective everybody the unenlightened so-called unenlightened and the enlightened the important thing is that they are all brahman that they are all god that the very the fact that we are as yet unenlightened is not of great consequence to them they just see our the divinity within us and they will bow down to the divinity within us swami shivananda there's a very nice reminiscence he's president of the order suramar krishna's disciple hundreds of devotees coming to meet at one time he would bow down to the devotees even before the devotees could bow down to him and everybody felt very uncomfortable he's the president of the order and so and so forth so later somebody some monk asked him swami why do you do that you make the decide the visitors uncomfortable you are bowing down to them and you are this you know president of the order and the disciple of sri ramakrishnam enlightened being he said what can i do when they come i can't see their human form their ishta devatas blaze out before me the chosen form of the deity the form in which they are supposed to worship god that shines through i'm looking at god i have to bow down i can't teach them in that way i have to bow down till when the divinity fades away and a human form comes in front of and then i can speak to them you see so that's what he's saying adi buddha from his perspective you are already you are eternally buddhas prakritiva by your very nature not by your effort survey dharma all beings not just bodhisattvas not just jivan muktas or not just great spiritual seekers no all beings even the most worldly ones adi buddha sunishita he says this is not just a claim i'm making it's absolute clarity i have full conviction on this and then he says you two should have that he says yasiya evam bhavati kshanti if you look at shankaracharya's commentary later on that's that's stunning he says coming to this conclusion you should give up any kind of spiritual seeking once this conviction is clear you should drop spiritual seeking because you are thorium there should be no more problem for you once you drop any further spiritual seeking i have to i know all this but i still have to become enlightened no no no no if you really know all this stay with it there's nothing more to be known at all he says having known that there is nothing more to be known at all one becomes fit for immortality 93. prakriti another beautiful term translation since the souls are from the very beginning tranquil unborn and by their very nature completely unattached equal and non-different and since reality is thus worthless uniform and holy therefore there is no need of any acquisition etc another stunning verse adi shanta this is you may say all that but i am experiencing samsara i'm in trouble and i need to get enlightened that's what i've learned guru pada you are just crazy and he says you know you are not experiencing samsara adi shanta from his perspective there's only turia what is this problem you are speaking about there is no problem at all adi shanta means samsara has ever seized from this was no samsara for you to begin with even the questions of how did it start how will it end how do i come out of this none of this he accepts because notice he's just speaking from the paramatic standpoint from the absolute standpoint when a very honest give me the straight answer from an enlightened person's perspective and that is the answer adi santa from you are in from the from eternity to eternity you are free of samsara this goes back to the seventh mantra in the first chapter shantam shivamadwaitam prapancho pashamam shantam shivam prapancho pasham the question silence of the universe which is shantam freedom from sorrow you are free of sorrow and suffering when all the time when you think you are suffering when you think you are being chased by a lion on the plains of africa and you are thinking why me i'm a monk what harm have i done to anybody to be chased by a lion why this terrible land is coming even if you are torn apart by that lion on the plains of africa and you die unmourned nothing has at all happened to you true or not and when i wake up from the dream i would say yes absolutely true and here from godhead's perspective you are completely untouched by samsara even when you are experiencing samsara at its worst today i was walking in the park i saw this gentleman being wheeled along in a wheelchair and obviously had a stroke he could hardly he couldn't move he was just lying on the wheelchair like this and i think family or somebody was one gentleman was wheeling him along in the park not only could he not move he could not speak he could only grunt like animalistic grunts to express the man with him understood what he wanted even at that stage when the body is like that devastated and there inwardly you should say see serenely adi shanta there is no samsara here at all can you do that god of father says absolutely and with the greatest ease his famous non-origination because you have never become a jiva never really gone to the plains of africa never become that swami running in the planes none of that has ever arisen though you experience it though now you are experiencing this devastated paralyzed stroke stroke ridden body and a grim life and death ahead of you being wheeled along can't express none of it has originated it continues to be consciousness and nothing apart from consciousness unlimited non-dual consciousness alone shines as all of this non-originated prakriti was another beautiful thing but yet the appearances are there if body is ill financial ruin is there society is in trouble my life is going to the dogs so these are i admit it's an appearance to consciousness but it's there he says even there sunil at no point do they touch you you are completely detached from all of that detach means they are you need to touch to have relation to contact you need two things the real and the unreal at no point come in touch the rope never comes in touch with the poisonous snake the desert never comes in touch with the water of the mirage similarly even the whole of samsara is appearing to you in its worst form none of it ever touches you he says prakriti of sunil by its very nature not by an effort by its very nature it does not touch you survey dharma all the jivas all sentient beings are same sama as pure consciousness abhinna they are non-dual non-different then he uses a beautiful phrase to round up the teaching ajam samyam vishaaradam non-originating samyam the same homogeneous consciousness one ocean of existence consciousness bliss which are the most holy holy of holies who is that that's you shantam vishaaratham the non-non-originated ever samyam ajam shamyam ever homogeneous ever pure consciousness whether in deep sleep whether waking appears to you whether dream appears whether it's birth or whether it's death whether it's disease or health gain or loss you are exactly the same consciousness everywhere and most holy visas this is this is the source of all sacredness and holiness i'll just end with what one sadhu is to tell us i am reminded of that lakshman dusty and gangutri often he would teach us this this ashtavakra and once in a while he would smile and look at us and say yeah buddy darshan this is a very paradoxical philosophy oh monks whether you know it or not whether you accept it or not you are rama you are god yes we'll stop here let me see are there comments or questions yeah oh thank you just a quick question about deep sleep i think you mentioned couple of times that there are two possibilities in brahman one is that something will appear or something will not appear yes and something appearing is the force of waking slash screaming something not appearing is the deep sleep yes can we safely say that deep sleep is what it is like to be brahman without any appearance deep sleep is what it is like to be brahmana without any appearance no because what we consider to be deep sleep is in from the perspective of ignorance enlightened people do not see deep sleep in that way then for us deep sleep means when i look back upon it there was a period of blankness and maybe restfulness is that brahman no no no when the enlightened person looks back upon it he says the same blaze of consciousness which is there right now and same there also so are we saying the enlightened person's deep sleep experience is different no his knowledge is different swami turianji was once asked so don't you sleep like us he said not quite let's record it so the reason i was asking this i wasn't talking about us reflecting back upon deep sleep in the waking state while we are in the peace is that while we are in the deep sleep is that what it is like to be brahmana without an appearance no no no while we are in deep sleep uh there is no way of discussing that because only way you can discuss that is to reflect back upon it from the waking state whereas see when we say we are in deep sleep even that wording the enlightened person would reject from an enlightened person's perspective deep sleep waking and dreaming cycle back and forth in that enlightened being in the radiance of consciousness right it cycles between manifestation and non-manifestation from object to vector and vector okay is there anybody else yep short comment from probably why is there a difference between enlightened people so nitin we can take it up tomorrow again just hold on to that thought i'll just run really over time um beautiful enlightened person but i really liked these uh wonderful descriptions from gaurapada when he says adi when he says shanta and this is a very honest description just if you take the pure theory or the pure absolute perspective um why is the difference between enlightened people think about it what do we consider an enlightened being to be that body mind is still there and we feel that this person is now enlightened from the enlightened person's perspective if you ask honestly what are you if you ask who are you i'm ramakrishna i'm vivekananda honestly what are you i am brahmana and shiva but when we interact with them we interact through the body mind of that person and each part of mind has its own history they look different they have different education language the mind has been equipped and the furniture of the mind is different in each case so the enlightenment shines through differently in different enlightened beings yeah um one more the enlightened mind body is different but the enlightened are the enlightened the mind body the enlightened are not mind body all right let me end with this thing which uh directly from swami bhutah anandaji who was the 12th president of the order we were discussing this very subject the monks were there and they are questioning him remember he was like over 98 years old at that time and we considered him to be an enlightened being so some of the senior monks were discussing i was there also at i was a young novice at the back of the room so how does an enlightened being feel but one of the monks was asking swami but we see that the enlightened person is walking and talking and recognizing different things how is it that you know he's seeing only brahman everywhere just like the rest of us and then swami bhutishanji said that's what you see in bengal he said and then the swami pounced he said ah but what does the enlightened being see that was the question of the questioner what does the enlightened being see what is it like what does the enlightened being see and here's a swami buddhist answer immediately i saw that it came without any reflection any stopping straight away from a place of experience who sees who sees question was that's what i'm what we want to know what does the enlightened one see in bengali union we think there is a separate individual there in that particular body mind whom we call the enlight the jivan mukta the enlightened being the enlightened person does not think of himself at all in that way so we leave it at that okay [Music] good let me just see all of you before you leave yes you can unmute everybody take care yeah the people from all over the world i can see people from india yes thank you good night we'll meet again tomorrow for the final class wonderful class thank you so much take care bye