Video 19

20. Mandukya Upanishad | Chapter 2 Karika 6

let's do the piece chanter Oh bhadram Carini be Srinu yama deva Bodrum Pasha moksha period otra steerer Ranga is tush toboggans Austin OBE via Shima diva Heaton yada Yahoo swass Tina Indra British wah-bah swass Tina foucha Vishwa Veda Sistina Stock Show Irish Tony me swass lien Aubry hospital Dada to whom chanté chanté issue so we have entered the second chapter of the monocoque Erica in this text there are four chapters the second chapter tries to prove the falsity of the world with the help of reasoning logic the Drummond alone is real the world is and other universes and appearance and you are Brahman this is the central teaching of Vedanta greater Vedanta so that second part the world is an appearance appearance of what of Brahman or in the Manduca scheme of things the fourth aspect of the self waking dreaming deep sleep that is the universe your makers universe this one and your dream world and your deep sleep all of them take a taken together is the Manduca way of saying universe and this is an appearance of consciousness in consciousness this appearance this is called falsity actually when it is put that way doesn't seem very difficult to prove when you save waking dreaming and deep sleep our appearances in consciousness actually if you understand it that way it should be fairly obvious what else can they be do they are experienced in conscious all right here so the way God a father approaches is it is he will give arguments to prove the falsity of the world he will show it from experience and of course he will remind us this is what the Upanishads themselves are saying this is the way philosophy is done in the in Vedanta Shruti UT anubhooti Shruti means relevant quotations from the Upanishads yukti means reasoning and nobody means experience what in your experience backs up this claim that the world is an appearance now how does he propose to go about it he wants to use dream as an example to prove the falsity of not of dreams because the dreams are dreams we we regard them as false anyway don't we just say oh it was just a dream which means we don't regard take them seriously we don't take them to be real or as real as the waking state but he is going to use the dreams as an example to prove the falsity of the waking state of the waking universe I remembered last time I mentioned that the Indian logic requires an example the form of argument or to put it technically the form of the syllogism in Indian logic requires an example what do I mean by that the way argument is done in naya philosophy in the Bahji logicians in India is this I want to prove that there is fire on the classic example fire on the hilltop I want to prove that there is fire on the hilltop so what's the way to go about it the form will be like this there is fire on the hilltop because of smoke because I see smoke on the hilltop just like we saw in the kitchen wherever there is smoke there is fire hence there is fire on the hilltop so this is actually there are five statements there for a five a five steps but basically the form is this there is fire along the hilltop because of smoke wherever there is smoke there is fire just like the kitchen that just like the kitchen it's an example there both of us agree that we saw fire and smoke together now we are seeing only smoke and they are inferring fire similarly we we have to provide an example that everybody agrees we saw falsity after all here we are not trying to prove fire on the hilltop what are we trying to prove here falsity we're in this waking world that this entire waking experience this universe is false is an appearance so what is what is it that you're trying to prove like fire what is it here falsity like on the hilltop where are we trying to prove falsity the waking world the world of our waking experience which we take to be real normally we're trying to prove that it's actually false then what is the relationship which we are using what is the like wherever there is smoke there is fire so we have to give a reason here and that's what we are going to come to but what about the example say I'm plugging in the different components of the argument so what about the example the example they used was the kitchen in the kitchen you have seen fire and smoke together what is the example that God apado wants to use here like like your dreams your dream world where you have seen a world and falsity together world and falsity together you experienced a world in your dreams and when you wake up and you say that oh it was a dream everything I saw in the dream is false because it's a dream so the dream example will be used here but the logic has not yet the reason is not even given in the fire and smoke example we proved that there is fire on the hill by what reason by the reason of smoke wherever there is smoke there is fire now we have to prove for wherever there is X there is falsity what is that X what is that reason we have to give wherever there is something what is the mark of falsity what shows what points to falsity we have to show that before coming to the real crux of the of the presentation what Godfather did in the first four verses first three verses was to show that dreams are false because we're going to use dreams as an example let's make sure that we are on the same page that everybody agrees that dreams are false somebody might at the end of the presentation say but dreams are true then the whole tour effort will be wasted so first of all Godfather makes sure that we are all on the same page that we agree dreams are false we normally take dreams to be false but God apothem makes sure by asking why do you take dreams to be false nobody really gives it much thought we say it's a dream that's why we don't take so he gives a reasons like you know space is contradicted as sufficient space is now their time is contradicted and then your experience when you wake up you are not at the place where you're dreaming of so such things several things he gives multiple ways of convincing us that dreams are actually false we don't require convincing but he still argues it out now he has started in the fifth verse which we read last time he has come to the real the substance of this chapter what is his argument why is this world false why is this world false the fifth verse we have already done it last him right I've never introduced it so Swapna jaga Rita's thani sheikha Maher Manisha Naha hayden army summit tweener proceed de Nieva hey tuna the different entities which are seen in the waking state and in the dream state they are the same they are equally false or they are false why the wise people say they are false why are they false because they share that same reason for falsity both of them what is that reason that's what we're waiting for eagerly after all he's going to going to prove that this experience worldly experience which we hold most dear which is most important to us this is our world is going to prove it to be false and he says because of the well-known reason because of that that well-known reason what is that well-known reason and Shankara says the well-known reason is is it's quite devastating for us because he says because you see it now this is something so stunning for us we don't think in that way you know what he's saying he's saying whatever a thing is false because it's an object of experience which is very strange what do you mean a thing is false because an object of experience we normally think that a thing is true because it's an object of experience I see this and I assume this is true people are here in the class I am here it's all true he says no because it's an object of experience we need to break this down what does it mean you see what is falsity it brings us to the question of what is falsity in Vedanta falsity means dependent reality a thing which is not real in itself but seems to be real it borrows its reality from something else it does not exist by itself come so let's take which borrows its existence from some other thing in that sense all the things in the dream are false you know if you if you will note your dream experience carefully what do you do when you wake up oh it was a dream meaning there by all those things I saw outside I thought they were outside they were actually in me it was all in my mind all those places I thought I visited that is all in my mind all those people I met all those events which happened good or bad it's all in my mind all those things which I thought outside independent of with me which I interacted with in the dream there are actually projections of my mind that's why I say it's a dream it's false because it is an object dependent on my mind not actually existing apart from my mind it's my mind alone which I was experiencing in all those forms and I thought they were separate objects that's why I thought they were real now I know they are all in my mind so I say it's a dream similarly he says look at our worldly experiences all things in the world depend upon you the experiencer what do you mean see to say something exists in the world it must be an object of experience so not necessarily things cannot exist even if I don't see them even if you don't experience them but or somebody else has to experience all in principle it should be experienceable if it is somebody that something that neither you nor I nobody has ever experienced seen heard smelled touched thought about conceived of spoken of imagined if it has nowhere entered our experience see even something like Harry Potter which is a which is fiction but still it is within our experience so it has a fictional existence you can still talk sensibly about Harry Potter that you know such and such thing happened but if it is something which has nowhere ever entered anybody's experience and in principle it cannot be experienced suppose you say then you cannot even speak about it even in mathematics it should in science it should be at least predictable or understandable by mathematical something maybe not detectable by our instruments it should be an object of experience in some sense if if it is so then then it leads to a very interesting conclusion that you cannot speak about the existence of any entity independent of experience and if this is your begin you get a and these things can be contested but at least the idea is if you've got the idea then you will say so what if it cannot be spoken of as existing apart from our experience note that experience depends upon the experiencer and the experience sir is an experiencer only by virtue of being conscious aware sentient whatever you call it ultimately the existence of every entity ultimately depends on consciousness on awareness on sentience this is the argument yes yes yes yeah so okay now there are two things here one is clearly if you see me what they're trying to say is if you see me I am something that is revealed by your consciousness right even if you do not see me they are seeing me I'm something that's revealed by their consciousness and that's the reason why we say that all right this guy is existing here but what they want to say is that because I am revealed by your consciousness and other than consciousness there's no way of speaking about me right because unless I am seen by somebody or heard of by somebody or somebody knows about me there's no point in speaking of this entity I mean who knows that I exist it must if I exist I exist in somebody's experience somewhere if I that goes to show that the expected this object which you are seeing now is dependent on your consciousness it cannot be proved or sensibly talked about without reference to consciousness everything that you see now your question is something different your question is isn't it true that you exist because we all see you here right so now our thing is in Vedanta a thing is supposed to is understood to be false not real if it has no independent existence in a dream when we see somebody we think it's there so that's the proof I'm seeing somebody but when I wake up I say that was false why because that somebody was not there outside meters in my mind from the dreamers perspective from the dream perspective it seems to be real because there's a separate person when you wake up you realize that thing which you saw the person you saw has no existence apart from your mind which dreamt up that person it has a dependent existence on your mind that means it's your mind basically which is made of that thing now so right now from a wakers perspective in this waking world it is very much great to say that this is real because I see it because I see it outside myself independently of myself I see we are all seeing this person separately from you so it seems real that I am here this is from your perspective as a waking person but because it's you I don't seem to be in your mind and seem to be outside your mind that's why you say that I am real from the wakers perspective I am real because I seem to be experienced outside you now take the perspective of consciousness awareness just aware of everything like you are aware of yourself also aren't you aware of yourself so you are aware of yourself aware of the contents of your mind from that perspective come come come here from that perspective let me ask you a question am i this person in your consciousness or outside it am I not in your awareness and can you ever experience me other than with outside your awareness without awareness can you experience me not though anything to be experienced has to be within awareness has to be experienced in awareness why I seem to be outside you is because when the awareness is very much you rooted in the body I place myself locate myself in the body immediately everything else seems to be outside the body so I said that's a real thing out there I see it I smell it I touch it I taste it I can think about it outside me that's because I'm taking a body perspective are you with me swim in the same they try to take an awareness perspective how do you take an awareness perspective instead of standing here make this like that I am standing in awareness in which the world is also experienced this body is also experienced inside me this body the mind is also expecting all of these are experienced in awareness and the example is the wakers mind in relation to the dream world let me repeat that again that that's why the dream example is so important in your dream in the dream example dream example from your perspective now when you look back upon your dream there are two of you in Hindi you put it this way Swapna - star Swapna purush Swapna Krishna means the seer of the dream and Swapna purush means the person in the dream what is the person in the dream you were there in your own dream you were there in your own dream right and you are seeing many things and the seer of the dream is different from the person in the dream who to see her of the dream you the Waker you you saw the dream it's you who claimed it was my dream now that person in the dream this is the most important that person in the dream is different from you the seer of the dream and that person was in you you the seer of the entire dream included the person in the dream who you thought you where when you are experiencing the dream being the same way exactly that's an example in the same way exactly in place of the person in the dream put the baking person you in place of the waking person that means the seer of the dream put consciousness awareness this awareness which you are experiencing right now wait step back from the person you think yourself to be into the this global awareness in which the entirety of right you're getting some of you you're getting it I can see by the smiles yes you have a question yes no a little one step further back you just used a language I am observing myself observing you right which means you are observing both yourself the person and me that person and me both of us are in your consciousness the one which is doing all this observing right that consciousness you are and the entirety of the universe which you experienced in the waking including you the person and me who you are observing we are all in your awareness if you are in your awareness and we cannot be experienced other than your awareness then we our existence is dependent entirely on your awareness just stay with that fact just wait wait wait wait wait wait don't jump into it it's like going to class in physics and cosmology and learning about superstring so in practical terms how does it help me it means a tremendous thing for you it is finally the end first of all it is the end of all your practical life your life is just finished if you if you realize this in another sense you are really beginning to live after this you are free of that little person tremendous it means moksha enlightenment it means if you practically if you even begin to get it you are a Buddha there right away right now man look you gotta power to say that then the end of all of this that you are Adi with daha you are the you are the original Buddha now okay we are trying to prove the falsity of T so the example I used here is dreams and the reason given here is just as things are seen in the dream and they are false similarly things are experienced in waking and they're false why are the dreams false because they are not anything other than the mind which dreams them why are all of these faults because they are not anything other than consciousness not not the person who is seeing them they're clearly other than the person who is seeing them but both you the person and the thing which you see both are appearing in the consciousness which you are and they cannot appear without that consciousness imagine that consciousness is not there imagine if I am NOT there in the room you're still there if these objects are not there in the room you are still there if the room completely disappears but you the person are still there even if your body disappears you will be a body less mind even if all thoughts disappear you are still there as the awareness without any thoughts but suppose though that awareness disappears then what is there nothing for you nothing so the entirety of this physical unit of this waking universe is completely dependent on you there are you beginning to see the way of thinking which go to by the screen it's it's a pretty stunning claim which is making I'll come to you yes the mind is a constructor of your dream yes correct No yes that person is a false person yes which I carry around all the time which excites me and also makes me very crazy sometimes no yes but let's take it in a very simple way the person in the dream and every other thing that you see in the dream are actually not there you're with me are actually not there they are all your own mind you are actually sleeping on the bed just follow the facts as they as you know them to be you are actually on your bed and sleeping and your mind generates all of this now compare it with what you actually experience in a dream that you are in some place and you have a body and you're meeting with other people but when you wake up all of that is falsified why is it falsified because it has no existence apart from the mind which was dreaming it right so that's the example those things are false because they were dreamt up by a mind they did not exist apart from you which you it felt like it felt like they were things apart from me similarly now he wants to prove in this waking world it seems to be a real world apart from me it seems to be real but just like that those things do not dream entities do not exist apart from the dreamers mind these waking entities also to know to exist apart from consciousness proof they cannot be experienced without consciousness the clearly in consciousness yes I'll come to you yes I'll come to you okay don't go go there now don't go there just to look at it from the point of view the witness consciousness from the point of view of witness consciousness is waking universe it cannot be experienced without that consciousness nothing can be experienced without that consciousness so the objects of consciousness must be in some sense dependent on that consciousness dependent existence is called falsity in Vedanta which has no existence apart from its constituent underlying reality the dream is false because it has no existence apart from its underlying the Dreaming mind question yes what is true remember the story of the emperor Jenica what was the story he asked is this true or is that true what is true he came to this point and everything is false yes the dream is false and the waking world is false then Janaka came to that exactly the same question he asked ashtavakra then he's nothing true everything is false and then what was rush table across answer that is your right that's also false this is also false everything is false you're correct but that to which everything appears that is the truth what is that we to which everything appears you you the consciousness but not you the body mind this body mind also appears to you the consciousness yes you the experiencing consciousness are the one truth in which everything in the universe appears you see what we did here different different theories of object and consciousness last time we saw what does science say science says this objective world actually produces consciousness how matter and space and time and energy are all that exist matter is organized somehow into planets some planets become capable of supporting life matter becomes living matter living metal evolves and eva evolved living matter generates complex nervous systems and brains a by-product of which is this delicate phenomenon of consciousness so consciousness is like a tiny flame in an otherwise dark universe of matter select that flame in the candle like that consciousness the consciousness is produced by a matter this is the reductionist materialist point of view ultimately matters only thing that you as long as this candle of the body is alive it will produce a little bit of consciousness and that consciousness will have will go about its life loving hating gaining losing enjoying suffering having delusions of being pure consciousness and attending Vedanta class ultimately when old age comes as I am as Parkinson's comes and then life support in the Mount Sinai and then dead buried burnt whatever gone no more consciousness finished that is the scientific materialist world view mainstream worldview today in the world today okay among the educated people yes right consciousness just these these things appear in consciousness that itself is called Maya now does consciousness actually generate this world generate means cause and effect relationship god apart this answer will be no every bit of what you experience is consciousness consciousness at no at no time generates anything other than itself it is the very capacity of consciousness to experience itself in all these ways just as your mind in the dream does not actually generate people and places and events whatever you experience in the dream all the people all the events everything that happens in your dream the entire story is nothing but the new the dreamers mind every person there is your own mind every animal plant sky earth fire water all of it is only your own mind and it has not generated anything else mind is only mind there has it actually generated a planet and stars and no no no it just appears like that now that's an example here consciousness alone appears like that not only the waking but actually dream world deep sleep they are all appearances in consciousness what is reproduction what yes I've been attending these classes not too regularly yeah okay so a whole point of this is the materialist reductionist point of view is we are bodies with consciousness so when you say we have children what is your idea of yourself and a child a body I am a body with consciousness I produce another body with consciousness Vedanta is doing just the opposite your consciousness experiencing a body what I'm trying to say is that's why this this thing is very important this worldview so deeply rooted in as we may think of ourselves as spiritual Enquirer's but actually we are among the grossest made materialists when you speak like that basically what you are saying is I'm a bit of mud with a little flame of consciousness I produce other bits of mud with little flames of consciousness is it true suppose in your dream you produce a child and the child has consciousness and all of that when you wake up what will happen you the child and all of that which happened in the dream turns out to be what turns out to be what why what were they made of the mind basically do you rush to get a birth certificate and all after waking up no because you see that was the mind clearly you have no doubt about it it was dreamt of now in this world also what we want is trying to sell Gorda Paulo is trying to say do you experience consciousness as a body or do you experience body as consciousness right now look at yourself look at yourself when you look at the hand are you experiencing the hand or is the handing are you put it even more viscerally are you seeing the hand or is this hand seeing you doubt still your doubts you are experiencing the hand the hand is an object of your experience but not just the hand other hand leg belly just head all of these are objects of your experience in your experience that's what we don't is trying to point to see the materialist rooting of our way of thinking it's so very deep you know what the scientist would say our materials would say no no no we are the body which has generated consciousness and the body through consciousness is experiencing itself I'll say re bhava look at your own experience what are you experiencing now is the body experiencing consciousness or consciousness experiencing the body you tell me you see how do we know you know look at your own experience right now what do you think is happening what do you think is happening let's see what's happening now yes yes bring in your detected consciousness now she introduced a term called reflected consciousness do you remember Dida has a reflected consciousness the consciousness which you are using now in transaction right now is definitely the consciousness in your mind this is not the background consciousness the awareness which you feel right now if that were the absolute then you would be enlightened already it is a reflection of your app of the absolute in your mind and that reveals only your mind just like the Sun in the sky it shines on many pots and the pots have water in them and in each pot you will get a tiny reflected Sun are you with me and that reflected Sun is specially shining and illumining the water in that pot now that Sun is asking if I am the source of all light why can't I see the water in the other parts because you have not discovered yourself as the one Sun in the sky shining down on all the contents of the water in the pot the contents of the mind I reflect are revealed to that reflected consciousness in fact it is that reflected consciousness which sees everything in the mind through the mind experiences the body and through the body and mind experiences the world that reflected consciousness is the person what proof remember that thing goes away when the mind stops if you drain the water in the pot that reflected Sun will not be there if you stop the mind that reflected consciousness will not be there deep sleep pure consciousness is still there I don't know it if you knew it then they wouldn't have to come to the class it's still there at very obviously there but we don't catch it that's the whole joke of the thing that's why you're in class we are trying to trying to realize ourselves as that so answer to your question is why do I know if I am consciousness one consciousness in every all of them why do I know the contents of only my mind because I am the reflected conscious right now what I take to be consciousness is reflected in this particular mind shines upon this mind and reveals it it's the person a similar thing God our Father would of course use the dream example exactly a similar thing happens in the dream you are a person in your own dream and you meet people and you don't feel that I am a telepath I can read the minds of all the people my people in the dream no I can't in my dream when I meet people they seem as opaque to me as others seem in the waking state with me when I wake up I realize I was all of them yeah the objective part of a part of markali the temple image they're all of one consciousness but that one consciousness is the real nature of makalya to go to father very interesting though you should bring it up because go Rapada there are two texts actually three four texts which are traceable to gorup are the most famous is the Manduca tarika this is another text you will be most surprised to know it's a tantric texts a worship of the Divine Mother called subha go there I've got the text is a rare text very complex text super go there it's a wash it's a text on the worship of divine mother Kali written by God or father which is seems to be very strange for to be such a great non duelist yes anyway now let me quickly summarize this paradigm we saw it last time but is good to keep it in mind and see if you understand it it will answer questions like you have raised straight away so when the materialist paradigm scientific materials paradigm is conch object matter produces consciousness it's a body producing awareness consciousness through a brain just the opposite is theistic religion what is theistic religion in Christianity Islam Judaism or in Hinduism we have a snob ISM shaivism shark tourism what is that what is ta sztyc religion God exists whatever you call it Allah or Shiva or Kali or whatever you call it God exists so this consciousness with tremendous qualities omniscient omnipresent omnipotent this is what we call God and that consciousness creates actually generates a real universe so consciousness creates matter the objective universe that is tht religion most three istic religion you see all the major theistic traditions of the world they will say consciousness generates matter another approaches found in the Sankhya yoga paradigm in the Sankyo yoga philosophy they say the natural universe is independent just like whatever science says about it is completely accepted it generates a like it may have come from the Big Bang they just call it Prakrit in nature and it's an independent real entity but it is neither produced by any God as science would agree on the other and the difference is this it does not produce consciousness consciousness is also an eternally real thing and the two things are parallely existing the universe exists and consciousness also exists and it interacts how does it interact through bodies and minds the universe produces sophisticated machines what are these machines complex biological Machinery this is what they call it wetware so the hardware but is wetware because it's full of fluids and everything so and consciousness can function through it uses the brains and nervous system like radio is used for tuning and catching already existing electromagnetic waves similarly consciousness can operate through this nervous system and brain that's why it seems to the materialist that the brain and nervous system produces consciousness but consciousness exists as fundamental as time space matter in energy in the entire universe but it only manifests it seems to be evident in complex living creatures like us it doesn't seem to be evident in the table or the rock or the pebble why because they don't have the the equipment which can tune into consciousness so consciousness is not produced by the nervous system and brain rather consciousness enters into this physical universe through the nervous system and brain it's like when you came in you all came into the door now if I had a reductionist I would say the door has produced you because I see you coming out of the door and kept going but disappearing into the door so the door is the source for all these people it said no the door has nothing to do with it I only allows me to enter and disappear so but I have it's not right not not producing me so consciousness and matter are independent realities and the pan psychism proposed by David Chalmers and some modern philosophers is exactly this the very ancient Sankhya idea of the fundamental nature of consciousness ok the Buddhistic idea is they don't say what produces what they are not interested in that but what they basically say the conscious entity which you think yourself to be of any entity is actually not an entity if you investigate yourself it's just some parts which have come together the conscious subject is actually empty call it swab Havasu near Shunyata there is no self-nature there no permanent existing nature there and what about the universe universe is also empty there is no permanent nature in any of it no self existent nature in any of it so subject is also empty object is also empty so emptiness Shunyata on both sides now what are we trying to say what is God apart trying to say here guru pada is saying here that the the consciousness which is self-evident right now that itself experiences itself as an objective universe the entire objective universe all of it including this body including this mind this person all of it is appearing in consciousness it is not separate from consciousness it's different from theistic religion this degree regions is a real universe is produced by consciousness this says that the universe is not produced by consciousness this universe appears in consciousness appears in consciousness means the universe is false it has no existence apart from consciousness and God a power wants to say it's evident look at your own experience what is the ultimate reality this itself is the ultimate reality what it is only thing is we have conceived it in like a dreamer in a dream we have conceived it into separate fractured realities you are all separate I am a separate how are we separate I'm a separate body separate person mind you are also separate I have my own little story and these stories and things are real and final adwaita says they are not real and final they all depend upon the consciousness which is watching all of it without it this would disappear ok so this is the this is the and come to you this is the well-known reason with Shiv Shankar Acharya says because consciousness itself experiences all what is the reason then put it in one word because it is an object of consciousness in sanskrit drishya because of being an object this ship an object of experience that itself is enough to fall see so you just see how what a bombshell it is our normal way of saying something is real is because we experience it it's real and God apart here uses the argument because you experiences it's false you see how just like your dream you experienced it and it was called the false it is built into the very nature of the experience if it is an object of your experience thoughts but that you experienced that it is false but you experienced it that is not false one Alan what know this person Jim Holt he puts it this he president is talking of different sense he's talking about whether mathematics itself can generate a universe so the title of the chapter is it from bit bit is bit of you in there and computer science and it is this universe so it from bit 3d printing here is actually a printer so it's like a 3d print out of of the platonic realm of numbers that's what he wants to say that's one one theory I'll come to you you know the questions Prakrit is the universe and you are pure consciousness that is the term there in sanction you know in tantra not in frankly here para prakruti will be the divine mother like what but that again becomes this theistic religion yes universe but we're saying the universe is consciousness itself appears as yes therefore the universe is not a real entity I mean pleasing theism is responding to it by saying consciousness precedes there now when you say put it on a timescale adwaita would be very very simple direct answer in Advaita is is time experienced by consciousness or his consciousness experienced by time time is clearly experienced by consciousness so time is also in consciousness style this object includes time space and object deja Carla was to all of it appears in consciousness according to theism time space these are fundamentals they are not in consciousness but they are produced by God even time and space would be produced by God we're here or maybe arrow also yeah you could put it there but generally if you see in principle it would be here an object time space causation and the objective universe yes if consciousness requires a completely from paradigm then consciousness itself may have also complete different laws and I'm curious like for example you just mentioned time and space appear in consciousness so for people who are truly enlightened and I'm reading various books and willing completely to accept what the truth is what they do in the future all right their number of issues which you have raised let me quickly touch on them the science is very good at talking about the world of objects you're right there and one wait has come to do that is leave the consciousness out of it so being objective is seen as a value in science it's the it's not being objective is a dirty word and Advaita Vedanta it's just the opposite objectivity is the sign of falsity a thing is a lie because it's an object if you're being objective you're a liar that that's what other way to say is I mean literally turn comes to that and in advaitha from a dramatic perspective it is backed up by your own experience okay but science works because when you're dealing with the world of objects it can get messy if you introduce the subject into it so if you keep the subject out of it and do science science works wonderfully and that's how we see the value of being objective has come out there if you hold on to this paradigm eliminate the subject from your study then then you are trying to study the subject mind and consciousness you are you are in principle bound to end up with severe difficulties and that's exactly what is happening now will the science ever come around to understanding consciousness yes it will have to relax its parameters it's it's a understanding of what is scientific enquiry if it is strictly objective eliminating the subject always then you cannot you cannot eliminate the subject when you're studying the subject it's like I want to study gravity without they were studying gravity you can't eliminate the subject what you're going to study the topic of your investigation remove that and then study it no and in fact it's not I won seeing it I attended a seminar recently a very famous philosopher Tim something I forget he gave a talking in by you the whole thing was behaviorism and psychologism in in in the philosophy of mind and he says that this whole idea of objectivity with a value which we have imported from science into philosophy also into psychology has led to things like behaviorism in America for example BF Skinner I notice that all of you I can explain what whatever a person is I can explain through your behavior I don't need to know what your thoughts are what your kind of person you are your behavior alone is so Skinner's behaviorism and not now what the conclusion in that that or the topic or the theme of the presentation was this behaviorism has become a stumbling block in our understanding of the mind now now that we are seriously trying to study mind and this hard problem of consciousness has come up in ways trying to study it our whole approach has become a stumbling block for us because our approach this is the approach so in order to understand consciousness you must go back to the object so our whole paradigm is to understand consciousness we have to understand the brain and how it is linked to the brain it's like saying in order to know you as a person I must understand the door you have come through at the most what can i found find out from about you from the door that maybe you walk on the ground your height cannot exceed that much in that door by too much or you wait that much I can find out about you but you as a person I know almost nothing about you when I spoke at the door so looking at the brain we're trying to understand consciousness so that paradigm has to be relaxed and maybe it will be if it is relaxed then science will find out interesting things about mind but finding out interesting things about mind is also not the same as arriving at advaitha mind is also part of the objective universe according to now what you said extraordinary capacities that you find the Yoga Sutras is the whole chapter on them the third chapter of the yoga Sutra I think we boutta panel which deals with a variety of extraordinary powers they do not see it's a different realm all together they say it is definitely within the objective realm except that it's not the strictly objective realm which is defined by science now it is actually a little expanded objective realm which includes the subtle body also but definitely there are laws and it can be understood and they are David a Yogi's would say we don't see why in principle that science cannot get to it we've made science can get to it if you expand your area of investigation but I want to emphasize this golda father and the man do Kia and this is way beyond supernatural abilities and what you call Siddha is that means this supernatural power super normal powers this is the final conclusion about the universe and ourselves this is the highest teaching it has nothing to do with occult powers right yes those are interesting aspect do you come across them when you come into spiritual life all right so one day we'll come across it definitely I think science will also come across it and so i'ma very kindly said there is nothing Supernatural about those powers they are well within this natural universe except that we have not investigated them and they seem supernatural to us a well-known science fiction writer said I think arthur c clarke any sufficiently advanced technology will seem like magic he said so sufficiently had advanced yogic technology will seem like supernatural power to a rest of us but for them it is perfectly explainable you can't do it in these ways I have myself seen some people which you cannot just explain in any way and straight away one person just read my thoughts and told me straight away just I asked what about is my what am I thinking right now tell me he told me I took exactly split second looked at me and told me exactly or testing so it is possible all right so this is the first reason yes this we have already come across in the first chapter do you remember why odd why is this universe there at all remember the various theories of creation of the universe these are all theories of creation the universe actually what does advaitha say most important the universe has not been created it's not a separate thing it is being experienced in consciousness you might still ask why is it being experienced in consciousness pure consciousness could just remain as it is without experiencing an universe let it be within consciousness let it be a false Universal you could just have dreamless sleep why dream at all we dream because our mind has many inputs from the waking state which come out somehow in our dreams that's why we dream this why would dreams have certain patterns to them also so why does this universe come up and in this way and the answer given in advaitha is Maya which is not much of an answer god of others answer is it is the very nature of this consciousness to shine forth in this these ways Allen what's put it this way he says this is the idea of Lila and party Lila is the play of God so it is the play the creativity the inexhaustible outpouring of consciousness in these ways and if you are playing if you are playing also has a dual meaning of acting so when you play or act one thing you do not do is you don't you are not yourself if you bring yourself into your acting you have to be something else in your acting if an actor has to be actor doesn't play himself so you have to be something else in your acting and that's what I'm giving Allen what I really liked the way he put it so when consciousness plays at being the world it will appear as everything except consciousness when you are projecting when you are appearing one thing which will not be during the appearance is the reality this is saying the reality never appears an appearance is never reality what appears is not real and what is real is never what is real never appears so God our fathers final answer to this because these are very deep questions why is there in this experience at all karappa this answer is first of all there is no universe it is consciousness alone you still say then why in this way it will say this is the very nature of consciousness to shine forth why in this particular way then you use your religion karma science to explain why this particular way and not any other way but why at all the whole thing that is the answer of God apart is because of consciousness because of you yes I yes I have said this earlier also if you ask this why ultimately why why is there a universe why can't Brahman remain without creating a universe creating all sorts of trouble for us the answer if you look at these the answers will be different in each one but in this adroit what is the answer answer is that Brahman did not project this year did not create the universe it's an appearance in Brahman it looks like that if you still persist why does it look like that it could have been nothing it could have just been consciousness without any object and there are different answers to that one answer is what Vivekanand himself said the question itself is wrong and you say that might be a way of shutting me up but I can persist like a child I can say why is it wrong like he said why when you ask this is why it's wrong why when you are asking a question what are you asking actually you are asking for an explanation you're asking for an explanation are you are you with me you please walk with me you are asking for a cause an explanation explanation means a cause why is the ground wet because it rained because look at the language because it rained you are asking for cause now that works very well within the universe though I don't understand quantum mechanics but it seems that it sort of breaks down when it comes to the quantum level but anyway in a Dwight I'd breaks down because see again because causation itself is part of this universe is part of the appearance only after the universe appears you can talk about causes cause effect but the universe itself what is its link to Brahman the answer is no link at all you cannot ask Brahman why are you projecting this university because Brahman Wilson I'm not I'm not predicting any universe I am what I am in so dive directly from the Bible I am what I am or I am that I am wait let me finish this thought so cause and effect they come after Maya in fact Maya is defined as space-time causation now if I ask you what is outside space you will say the question itself is wrong why because when you say outside outside inside you have already accepted space these make sense only in space if I ask you what is before time you will say the question is wrong why because before and after mean time you have already accepted time then only you cannot talk about before and after similarly if I ask you why causation you should say the question itself is wrong because why this makes sense only there is causation but this causation time space and causation are projection of in fact why Varick on the drew a diagram Brahman universe in between he wrote Maya and what is Maya time space causation so this is yes what you said another beautiful answer I I saw which is which psychologically satisfying different answer to the same question because this is a really most fundamental question is was given by one Swami called a kundan and the Saraswathi he puts it this way the nature of consciousness is to experience right and there is nothing else except consciousness and yet consciousness itself cannot be an object of experience when consciousness tries to experience itself which is impossible it will experience and yet it cannot be experienced the result will only be error the result will only be error and this error is Maya and the example he gives is very beautiful the nature of your eyes is to see and the nature of space is not to be seen so when you look out into empty space into the sky you cannot see it but it will appear to you as an inverted Bowl it looks like a surface when you look at the sky it looks like a surface there is no surface there it looks like that why because the nature of your eyes is to see and the nature of space is not to be seen it cannot be it's not an object which can be seen by your eyes when you look up at the sky you will see it it's like a blue inverted bowl children think it's like a sky is a blue bowl and up to the horizons it's an illusion exactly like that you are consciousness you are bound to experience your very nature is to experience and yet there is nothing else to experience except yourself so when you experience yourself which cannot be experienced you experience it as a limited universe how do you experience it the immortal existence sucked is experienced as birth and death creation and destruction and ever-changing universe the consciousness chit is experienced as Jarra non conscious or checked pure subject is experienced as object and bliss itself Ananda you are bliss itself you experience yourself as a world of pleasure and pain and in this experience you who are such Adan endure you keep chasing yourself chasing yourself means we're trying to experience yourself you're trying to find immortality you're trying to find you know infinite existence infinite knowledge infinite happiness such chewed on and the you are that that's why you are trying to find it so there is poetic idea of yourself and your experience of the universe should we go ahead okay ask your question yes well this is an important point in the whole chapter that's why I'm giving so much time for you yeah go on ask the question yes such a scene as changing universe the unchanging existence is seen as change changing universe means birth then death production and destruction that which is never subject to production and destruction never subject to birth and death is seen as being born and dying creation and destruction that which is ever the subject is seen as an object that is ever bliss is seen as suffering so this is called poetic justice I've never bought in the question of power you do did you notice first of all eyes and space is not a question of power the nature of the eyes is to see lo remember the example which the Swami said the nature of the eyes is to see and space is not something that eyes can see it's not an object of the eyes which I am now the nature of consciousness is to experience remember I did not say not nature is not to experience itself nature is to experience consciousness in humans that's what consciousness does but there is nothing to experience no thing to experience other than itself and it is not an object of experience consciousness is not an object if there is no object of experience and yet it will experience what will it experience it will experience an error that's a pretty nice way of putting it I never seen it in any other way the text is that Swami put it this way but I it appealed to me immediately that idea of a little boy looking up at the sky and seeing a bowl and you are such a down and you shine forth and see yourself as the universe you the immortal existence see yourself as bird a bird tendeth change you the pure consciousness pure subject you see yourself as an object you pure bliss you see yourself as suffering and ever hunting for blame pleasure okay that's a good point this story I heard from one Swami in the Himalayas and Swami Chien Melinda ji is also written in he in fact wrote about it in his reminiscences you know the chin my mission so Swami chin my ananda he was the founder of the chinmaya mission he was actually a ok this class is going lots of students doesn't matter let's take our time so much in mind and they he was actually a newspaper reporter and one thing he took up was I'm going to the Himalayas to expose these frauds these monks who stay in the Himalayas my textbook he ended up being a monk you know very well known monk he found very good teachers Siobhan and the Saraswati the Siobhan and the yoga which is famous well-known in USA and Europe so the founder of that system Siobhan and the Saraswathi was there he started what is called the divine life society numb chin man and went and became a disciple of Shiva energy and then he was said I want to learn Vedanta at its purest non-dual Vedanta from a traditional master so she wonders what he said ok I will recommend one but it has to be somebody who can teach in Hindi because there are others that there were three who were very well known at that time but two of them taught only in the in Sanskrit and chin man and this Sanskrit was not strong enough to like take the whole teaching only in Sanskrit so there was one topo1 ji who taught in Hindi also is a great master of Advaita Vedanta I visited his cottage I heard this story from his personal Civic I don't know if it's still alive now sundar Ananda if you look him up he was 84 when I met him so anyhow finally chinma Honda came to he was a parameter at that time a novice he came to Gangotri where Swami topo1 Mirage he was teaching Vedanta very austere Swami he always would had strictest conditions you have to be a monk of course to be student and you have to beg for your food and find your own accommodation which is very difficult there it has to be a heart or a cave in those days specially there was no permanent buildings a very few with them and there will be two classes in a day and the classes are also he teaches and whatever he has taught you have to recite it verbatim next day otherwise you are banished for life it nearly happened to Jin my energy once he could not repeat back some verse which was taught in the earlier class and he was about to be banished when other students interceded on his behalf and he tougher ones he was gracious enough to let him continue and yell Swamy Tianjin man Jim said tells this story in that one day and when he was talking about a traitor and I think they were studying the man Duke he at that time he had this question that this existence consciousness bliss this consciousness which we are this is all in all this is the only reality then why do we need a universe why do we need God in particular form you know Shiva Kali Vishnu or why do we at all nee why does this why is this universe needed at all this is the question why is the universe needed at all and tougher ones you try to explain it this way and that way but chin man he was not convinced one day while the class was going on Swami couple when she told Jin Mohanji pani lay I'll get a get a get water for me and chin man she writes that I was surprised because it was cold and normally in the middle of the class the Swami never asked for water anyhow he went down you know with the glass and got water from the Ganga which runs narrow and fast there we went down to the river got a glass of water brought it up and top of one maharaj was furious with him what is this a glass of water what did I ask you to bring water what have you got glass of water did I ask you to bring a glass of water I asked you to bring water and chin mangie because he's hit you know advanced Ithaca he understood everything did like a thunderstruck he said he stood there that was a moment of enlightenment he realized immediately you can't get water without the glass you can't do anything at all with pure consciousness without name-and-form that is the reason for this universe it is that very pure consciousness like a glass of water it is pure consciousness as men and women and plants and trees and planets and stars and protons and quarks all of these are like the glasses in which pure consciousness is held I don't stress the paradigm too far but this was the moment of opening of his eyes why is this at all mean why does pure consciousness need this what is the point of it the point is this to do anything at all with the transcendent you must bring it into the relative plane and the relative plane requires name-and-form space-time causation and all of it is projected by consciousness but consciousness cannot be anything other than itself so even when it projects all of this it is still consciousness it does not become a universe even when you experience a separate universe apart from you you are all of it but only as consciousness not as body mind ok now let us okay so that is the example of the glass I had heard it from among there in the Himalayas who actually saw that thing happening he bought Swami chin man and the two top over maharaj and told me many interesting stories and then later I sought in mind he had himself written his in his reminiscences in a book I read his written I imagined my Angie wants many heads ago I was 10 years old at that time I think ok now let us go on to this this is the only the first reason why is the universe false because it is seen people will think it's crazy you go out of this class and say a world is false what do you mean man don't you see it yes because I see it it sparks now I know it's part it's like I read a story about one of the earliest it was I think Niels Bohr or somebody was working on quantum mechanics and he came to some conclusions which Einstein did not agree with I was reading a reminiscence and he would they would have conversations I think it was born he came over here to Princeton and they were walking down the lane in Princeton and the Bohr was trying to explain his point of view and convinced Einstein that quantum mechanics is it's correct at one point it became clear to Einstein and at that point he stood unfortunately it was the middle of a road and they rewrite the Niels Bohr writes that many cars came to a sudden halt you know one boy they were rushing dozen and that to stop because the lights change and they were standing in ansan did not move his thunderstruck he stood there so I mean they are in the world of ideas you know they are immersed in it now let's go on to the second reason he gives two reasons for the falsity of the world the second reason is also equally interesting 6/6 verse aadhavan tjn nasty want Haan nasty what Imani P tatata what Imani P tatata Vita te sirisha Santo Vita Theresa Trisha Santo avi Tatar evil acts eita Matata evil a cheetah which does not exist in the beginning and which does not exist in the end it does not exist now else in between they are unreal like all unreal objects these things are also unreal but in between they seem to be real what is he saying things which do not exist in the beginning and which do not exist afterwards beginning means before birth before creation afterwards means after death after destruction they do not exist they never wear and there never will be after that in between they seem to be at that time then they seem to be also gora father says they are not there example this is example Shankar Acharya gives examples like a mirage water does you did not see any water then suddenly you see water later on you realize this water is not there but then when you realize it's a mirage you also realize along with that that when you saw the water it was still at that time also it was not water you don't see water in the beginning and then you see the water and then you realize it is not water and also you realize concurrently that when you are seeing it as water at that time also it was not water there was no water there any when it did not appear there was no water when it appears also there was no water fine for a mirage but what about this world here is the reason and it's also as stunning as the first one what is this thing it says anything that you that has a beginning and an end is false is an appearance Makia in sanskrit the reason is anita thought the first one was do shift work because you see it is false now because it is temporary it is false see here is an interesting thing many people have said to me Swami that the world is temporary transient has a beginning and end people are born and died I know that and we all know that that is acceptable the impermanence of the world is understandable and acceptable but Advaita seems to go too far and say it is false it's not there at all even when I experience it's not there our experience of the world is yes things are impermanent but when we experience them they are there these things are there the people here the chairs your table everything here is here right now it's there true people are born and they died chairs are created and destroyed no doubt at one time none of this was here at one time maybe in the far future none of us will be here none of this will be here right but right now at least it is here this is called impermanence and this is common sense all of us know that the world is impermanent up to this we accept even the Buddha said impermanent impermanent all is impermanent transient transient all star transient I need your money iam servo manikyam okay we can accept that goroh pada says here's the interesting thing the hora father says do you accept impermanence that it is so we will say yes but real I when it's there in between it's real it's really there gota palaces wait I'll show you something funny about that but like a magic trick but do you accept that things are impermanent the things of the world people and the objects are not now I'll show you that they are also false if it is impermanent it must be false how how is that okay and the reasoning goes like this the classic example of fire you know when you have a hot potato it is hot the heat does it belong to the potato is it intrinsic to the potato no why because it was a cold potato earlier and once you serve it if you don't eat it a past it's going to be a cold potato again in between it's a hot potato so it is he does not belong to the potato so where did it come from clearly it's there at that time so where did it come from it's borrowed from the boiling water where you boiled the potato so is the water hot is it intrinsically hot no it also borrowed its heat where did it borrow it from from the pan and is the pan intrinsically hot no it borrowed it from the fire is the fire intrinsically hot yes how do you know fire it intrinsically hot as long as the fire is burning it's going to be hot but the pan is not hot all the time before and after it's not hot the water is not hot all the time before and after boiling it's not hot and the potato is also not hot all the time only when you are boiling it and for some time afterwards it's hot now notice something the one switch borrowed heat they have got one common characteristic they gain it and lose it it does not belong to it somebody said in Manhattan you can't really discover who's rich people have so much a maxed out the credit card they behave like they're rich so how do you know if they're really rich or not if you see whether there's whether there are possessions and cars and places that they're being repossessed by the bank or not are those guys after you or not so it's borrowed now one sign of having a borrower having borrowed it is you gain it and lose it it did not have it got it and then lost it in classical Sanskrit literature and in philosophy also it there is a figure autumn which I called in the ayahs base of expression like a like a what will you say an algorithm or an example let's say my metaphor example something it's called yeah cheat Amanda Nanaia rich sister and poor sister and the poor sister wants to go to a party or affair and she borrows dwells from her rich sister so she decorates herself with borrowed jewels so and then she has to return it afterwards so the jewels are with her only for a particular period of time showing that they are not really her sits borrowed from somebody else so that's the allusion there now let me ask you a question or gada pass the question suppose something borrows existence does not have existence in and itself in N&A in and of itself it has borrowed existence how would you know it has borrowed existence what would you expect borrowed heat cold earlier cold afterwards in between heart borrowed existence yes yes what are you saying yes what correct comes into here into the the the high temperature it gets and goes back to low temperature comes into existence and loses existence that means things are born and destroyed things are created born and did I created and destroyed they seem to gain existence and lose existence that means they don't have existence in and of themselves if something like fire which has heat all throughout if something has existence intrinsically what would you expect always is there not only always is there it can also lend existence like the rich sister can lend the jewels to the poor sister similarly or the fire can lend heat to other things this thing is always existing and can lend existence or at least appear to lend existence to other things now look at all the things of the world you are self admitted remember we admitted that they are all impermanent impermanent definition comes into existence and loses existence if they come into existence and they lose existence then they must have borrowed existence from something more fundamental again this is nothing very radical we know you say what is so great about it this building it has borrowed existence from concrete concrete it is borrowed existence from say the earth element so the concrete in the building is or the bricks in the building they were there before the building they are there now and they will be there after the building in between during the forms the building building is has borrowed its existence from the bricks similarly so this universe has borrowed its existence from something more fundamental now here is the trick here is the crucial conclusion remember what I said what is the definition of falsity in the first first study depend dependent existence that which depends on something else for its existence is defined as being false right in the earlier one we use the equal of objects depends on consciousness for its existence hence false now we are saying this entire universe because it is impermanent it shows it has borrowed existence from something if it has borrowed existence it does not have intrinsic existence of its own it is the very definition of Fall City with theater then what will it borrow existence from all the way down to we in in the classical vedanta bay they will say that or this world take anything this book this body it is borrowed existence from what its constituent elements what are its constituent elements is say the cells and the organic material in it further down go for that are they permanent know they are borrowed existence from what ultimately you see it will come down to the five elements according to the classical cosmology earth fire water air space so the five elements are they fundamental no they are also names and forms superimposed upon brahman by maya so ultimately they have borrowed existence from Brahman has ba Brahman got its intrinsic existence yes why because what is Brahman existence itself sucked it cannot not exist like fire it cannot not be hot by definition it is hot similarly Brahman is existence itself it is sucked so it is eternally existing if you ask the question from point of view of time not only that it can lend existence like fire can lend heat it can lend or it can make other things appear to exist what does it make appear to exist the five elements and the combinations of the five elements or the entire universe which you see at the root of this at the root of this entire universe are the five elements and the root of the five elements is Maya at the root of my experiment once Bertrand Russell he was giving a talk public talk on the latest discoveries in cosmology the fundamental building blocks of the universe and one old lady got up and said she is it I don't know if the story is true it's a famous story she got up and said whatever you have said is rubbish what do you mean universe is not made of these things what you're talking about everybody knows that the world is balanced on a turtle the old story of a turtle and then Bertrand Russell said with no superior smile well madam then what is the turtle standing on and she smiled and said ah you think you're clever young man but it's Turtles all the way down don't love the turtle of the turtle well all the turtles are standing on Brahman and what is Brahman standing on well Brahman is a super turtle he doesn't have to stand on its self it stands on anything else it stands on its still because it is existence itself it doesn't depend on anything for its existence everything else depends on it for existence and therefore everything is false except Brahman why is everything falls everything every object it depends borrows existence from her that's why the world seems to exist because it borrows existence from Rama now this is not just a toy to be hrunta in indirect ways in little more through stories and allegories every religion of the world including the theistic religions they have come to this understanding what is God according to them one characteristic they will say God is that which lends existence to everything how it does it advaitha gives you in such a philosophical and clear way the theistic religions cannot really Express the express it through mr. mr. a mystical language allegorical language through stories Dwight of Atlanta which is just the opposite of Advaita Vedanta Madras waiter Vedanta there one an important thing they say they say Narayana or Vishnu is the ultimate reality Brahmin personal God and the patch is devotional what one characteristic very interesting they say that they have a thing that Vishnu or Narayana alone has independent existence then say everything else has dependent existence if you force the issue a little further it will collapse back into advaitha but they will not say that but it is a one characteristic of God is or drummond is that it has independent existence everything else's existence depends on that Rama anyway ooh boy beyond that yes alright so this is the great second example there's the second reason drishya taught first reason on it yet work so what is the second reason reason for what reason for falsity of the universe the second reason is because things are impermanent are things impermanent yes that's a thing which way everybody agrees things are impermanent if things are impermanent they tend to gain and lose existence if things are gaining and losing existence it means they do not have intrinsic existence that not having intrinsic existence itself is the definition of falsity so things are false it also points to something which is lending existence to everything and that thing which is lending existence to everything what else could it be the most general case existence itself pure being sucked the first first reason drishya thought because it is experienced as an object it leads to cheat pure consciousness brahmanas chit the second reason because it is impermanent it leads to brahmanas sucked so to two causes Godfather has provided here for thee for his argument for the falsity of the world yes yes is that true or false yes in in in the system of propositions which you call it may take it is true you will ask that so you know what will be the next thing and then you have admitted there are two truths brandman and two plus two is equal to four no think about it this way 2+2 4 is it something you experience or is it something that is experiencing you you experience right 2+2 4 is a mathematical truth which which is experienced by you in your awareness which is understood by you conceived by you in your awareness rather in your mind in your intellect and that intellect itself appears in your consciousness right so the intellect and its contents 2+2 4 the mathematical truths they are all ultimately dependent on consciousness without consciousness there is no question of anything in that case from the perspective of consciousness they are false we are not saying 2+2 4 is not equal to 4 in the game which is being played suppose you say that Dumbledore is the teacher of Harry Potter true or false if you say no no it's false so he's not the teacher of Harry Potter that's what you're saying somebody else is the teacher of Harry Potter now what you mean is it's fiction but within the fictional world of Harry Potter it is true it's a true fact within the game you call mathematics 2+2 is 4 correct I'm not even saying that there is another world where 2+2 is not for known I'm not saying that what I am saying is that 2+2 4 that whole thing all of mathematics and it's truths they have a dependence on consciousness for their very existence even whether you're deciding it is true or false it depends on consciousness you see you have just given an example of mathematical truth but take a common-sense truth you are seeing me is this true or false it is true from the perspective of you the person deploying an instrument of knowledge called protection and seeing an objective objective knowledge you say I see you I do or do not see an elephant if I say I see an elephant it is a false statement I see you it's a true statement but what does a droid have to say about this she's perfectly all right within the game you call pramana premier vive Hara using the game of epistemology but the whole thing depends on consciousness so the whole thing is a dependent reality without such it does not exist without cheat it is not revealed to you to use your mind and eyes to see me and come to the conclusion here is Swami to see you use your mind and eyes and see that there is no elephant to say that here is an elephant would be a false statement this difference of truth and falsity all this is possible because of you the consciousness that is exactly what Advait is saying all this is false means since it's a dependent reality within the dream you could say god of this is my analysis but god rapid answer would be even simpler he would say this very thing you could say in a dream also right and it would be true within the parameters of the dream but outside the parameters of the dream you would say that no it was I dreamt it all up it was not there you might say mathematical truths are true in dreams also and in waking also true but they are also mathematical truths also depend upon the consciousness for there a very existence for their very understandability for their conception for the deployment they all depend upon consciousness that's what advaitha means by being false dependent reality or dependent existence yeah yeah in a slightly different way in Indian philosophy those who attack Advaita they ask this question the existence of anything is proved by means of knowledge means of knowledge you see it you hear it you smell it you taste it touch it you infer it through logic you use mathematics physics any kind of system of knowledge then you know something right by means of knowledge things are known okay by what means of knowledge is Brahman know it if you can you cannot say it is known by any means of knowledge because it's not an object for any means of knowledge and if you admit that it is not known by any means of knowledge then you cannot speak about Brahman itself in your Hall at the weight of falls to the ground on what basis are you it's a fairy tale then hmm it's a fairy tale then if it is not an object of any of the means of knowledge then you don't know it why talk about it if it is an object of the means of knowledge tell me what by what means of knowledge is Brahma unknown and even you need not tell me if you the moment to admit it's an object of the means of knowledge then in Brahman becomes an object a thing you yourself say it's not an object what will you answer to this question this is basically what you are asking in in a very very deep sense in a very general sense the problem is posed the answer is exactly what I gave you answer is this Brahman is not proved by the means of knowledge a rather stunning answer all the means of knowledge depends on Brahman for their existence and operation because you are existence and consciousness therefore you can see hear smell touch think understand remember forget all of it depends on the fact that you are this suck and cheat then you use these means of knowledge to prove other things in the world like 2+2 is 4 but the whole thing depends on you as existence consciousness bliss yes she's still annoyed with this one after after after a rabbit rabbit out it's not that scientists do not believe in consciousness they are not denying consciousness as such what they're saying is consciousness is produced by matter there is no such thing as it's not a fundamental thing it's produced by your brain activities most scientists that they are a scientist to actually deny consciousness there's for example the Philosopher's Churchland I think Patrick Churchland he says consciousness is an illusion I sometimes I feel easy its consciousness and is he a zombie or something yes all objects of our products of Maya yeah under saying anything in new F everybody in India for thousands of years in sub Maya hey but now you understand the philosophy behind it and the the think everything is Maya every person for last two thousand two thousand years in India they'll say some Maya but but now you understand we are also saying the same thing today but you now understand the philosophical machinery behind this whole thing yes knowledge of course before that you said so how does one know exactly the process that you're taking us through see the falsity of the world that they will come a time when you know all of that kind of will be remove somehow we just be at that stage absolutely right correct thank you for saying this absolutely right this whole thing which we are trying to do prove the falsity of the world it's not a just a neat logical exercise it's a spiritual practice many people think this Drive philosophy many people object to it falsity of the world no no no people will lose all motive for zest for living no this is a deep sphere a spiritual practice it is the highest spiritual practice it is just one step away from enlightenment one Swami taught this not I didn't hear it directly I read it in one of the books in Hindi but it goes like this falsity of the world jagat mithya falsity of the world what is the point of this teaching and what good does it do he says vedantins the students of åland he would say catch Avedon think that those who are novices beginners children in vedanta they don't understand the deeper meaning of the falsity of the world usually the way to start in Vedanta is the falsity of the world is very powerful for increasing vairagya dispassion for the world and it is true but it's not the real purpose but I'll tell you why it is true moment you begin to even sense the falsity of the world you will immediately lose interest in it temporariness of the world will not create by rakia it's very interesting who does not know the world is temporary I know the cookie is temporary does it remove my greed for the cookie no makes no difference I'm glad that the cookies temporary an eternal cookie would be a problem flower needs enough if it lasts for a few seconds on my tongue and gives me the nice sensation of us of of an Oreo or something like that so the temporariness itself does not remove our attraction for the world it does not it should really it does not fall city immediately removes her attraction for the world you don't have to be a philosopher even a child who gets the sense of falsity will lose attraction for it I've given the example earlier also when rice first so I remember vividly first sought or the only time I tracked I saw a three-dimensional movie when I was a kid in India I had to put plastic glasses on and you would see so one scene was there where the king or something was being offered a dish of Indian sweets you know lot do when all of that work and way it was offered the special effect was it would come and hover in front of your nose and all the kids in the hall they were laughing and giggling and it's that you know things swiping like this trying to get hold of it but all in fun because they knew it's not really there they were not frustrated that they couldn't catch hold of it they were startled and they were enjoying it that here is apparently a plate of delicious sweets but I can't get hold of it if it was really there and somebody got it and I didn't get it then I would be unhappy somebody who got it would be delighted then it's samsara starts with it but the moment it is seen to be false the only thing that can come out of it is delight its movie if it was seen to be real even temporary then its tragedy then its samsara it's horrible genocide and war and natural disaster nobody would think of this as fun except when it's Hollywood then the worst of horror movies and disaster movies you give move Oscars the worse it is the more terrible the tragedy and more realistic it's depicted the more Oscars you will give one condition though one condition what is the condition which has to be false no animals were hurt in this moment that has to be there otherwise the director will end up in jail producer will end up in jail until that point we enjoy it only one condition it has to be false so falsity creates Vairagya and allows us to enjoy this universe without any kind of pull to it any kind of drag any kind of bite to it so definitely when add weight and say falsity creates its strength and Vairagya dispassion for the universe it creates this you can relax you can let go you need not be so terrified or so anxious in this universe but the Swami said that is only children in Vedanta they say this that say that means that those who are not ripe they are not maturing very immature Vedanta say this the maturer vedantins the deeper the well-versed Vedanta the Masters no a deeper reason for falsity what is the deeper reason for falsity and that's a stunning reason for falsity the deeper reason there's a spiritual implication of false it is this when you say the snake is false and the Rope is real let me ask you a question where is the real rope where is the real rope you see this is sniff out snake it's really a rope now if I ask you where is the Rope then where is it right there the Rope is right there right what false snake means the real rope is misunderstood misperceived misconceived is a false name it is that very thing which you are perceiving as a snake is actually a real rope similarly that's the meaning of the falsity of the snake the meaning of the falsity of the world is that very thing you are seeking Brahman the absolute God bliss freedom moksha Nirvana what you are seeking he's right here right now this very thing it is tearing at you in the face we don't see we don't have eyes to see that is the meaning of the falsity of the world think about it those philosophies and religions which say world is real they don't know what they are saying they're destroying that whole religion the very ground of the religion the destroying religion they're distancing you from God and they're destroying God itself why the moment you say this is a real world you're clearly saying this is not God if it is real then this cannot be God if it's real in purity real death real suffering real tragedy real guilt and horror how can it be God what cannot go out of a God would it be God is pure good wonderful but then God must be separate so where is God not here there so you have heaven not now after death not here not now not this so if distanced yourself from God you've separated God from yourself by space heaven and earth you have separated God from yourself by time now and after death and you have separated God from yourself by object all these things are earthly and myself and God is heavenly and other other other God is the divine other it's a good way of starting but you can see the terrible implications of that if nobody thinks about it and other way things are too gentle to point it out not always if provoked they will point it out it's a theistic religion it's a mess even you have known may not have noticed in one place we wake Ananda he uses the harshest terms for dualism he's talking about whether on the dualistic theory in qualified monism and waiter in that place when it makes the transition he describes dualistic religion beautifully and then when he makes the transition to advaitha he says but I cannot stay with falsity anymore we must go on he calls it a lie it's a useful line it's a fiction it's a stepping stone but it cannot be the end and it is true in all the theistic religions of the world you will find mystical traditions within which actually point to the truth but then seen as position of a very few people mystics experts esoteric sometimes they are persecuted they're killed and you know that so this I come to you so you have distanced yourself from God but this is not the least of it the next horror is this you have killed God how if this is not God God is something else then God is limited there is something real in the universe which is not God God is limited in time space and object this time is not God this space is not God this object is not God hence and it is real it's not an appearance in that case your God is a limited God in Sanskrit per each Kingdom and it's asking in in Vedanta limitation and falsity they are linked everything that is limited by time space and object is false you have made God false anyway yes aha but remember their everything is within coats because things are not there Brahman alone is there that's why yeah everything in this universe is real as Brahman right see in every dualistic religion ultimately the final realization and sim - raka beta God got to me later the son of Dasaratha Ram Chandra is found in every entity in the universe how can one man even a guard or incarnation be found in every entity in the universe yes it can be because only in this Advaitic sense mihrab I see is Krishna everywhere so mystics ultimately when they actually realize they find the same ultimately the vended realization is at the peak the final full-blown realization they will realize God in everything then you come to add weight only but to a different path to a path of devotion all right so today we will stop here with a long discussion I thought I would make four or five carry cos but it's good these to carry cos are fundamentally important you know what will happen after this the opponents will come up with objections that you are trying to equate dream and waking so dream and waking are not the same making is real dream is false why for objections will come up and we will see how god up are the deals with them one is the objection of utility you have earned some money in a dream you can't spend it now somebody gives you a gift card in a dream and you go to a shop and say I'm going to buy all these things where is the gift card it's in the dream you can't use it so dream is false and waking Israel somebody gives you a gift card in a vacant you can use it and buy things so things which are real have utility things which are false do not have utility one argument I think by now you are experts you can cut down that argument easily this second argument is subtle things which are imagined in the mind are false things which are actually out there are real again you can cut it down just use the dream example and then another one was Oh dreams are also real in one sense there's an answer peculiar argument you'll see because because you are saying that dreams are all things which helps we have experience in the waking world and then reconstituted in a dream but no sometimes in dreams you see unique things which you never saw in the waking world so where did you where did those things come from so dreams must be real because of unique experiences in dream so things like that for arguments will come up and those we will see they'll be cut down very good Shanti Shanti Shanti he hurry he own that such Shri Krishna must