Video 9

9. Katha Upanishad | Mantras 1.1.25 - 28 | Swami Sarvapriyananda

[Music] may the lord protect us both teacher and the thought together by revealing knowledge may the lord protect us both by giving us the results of knowledge may we attain vigor together let what we study be eliminating maybe not caval at each other om peace peace peace so we are studying the qatar punition and we were on the 24th verse yes we all know what's been happening the little boy nachiketa has got gone to the house of death and because he had to wait for yama the god of death for three days three nights um yama gives him grants him three booms to make up for making him wait and nachiketa asks for three moons of course we know the final one is the one we are interested in the knowledge of the self uh spiritual knowledge but first he asks that his father's anger go away that that his worldly affairs be settled his father no longer be mad at him that he can go back to the world and his father would love him once again his little boy so and that these are things important to him and he wants that to be settled first the second boon he says that um heaven how can we go to heaven all the people i see around me are interested in these kinds of rituals so what's the best ritual and yama teaches him that and naji keta learns that yama blesses him also that in the times to come this particular ritual the fire sacrifice will be known as known by your name nachi ketagni by your name and that's that's there and that actually happened i mean in the sense that there is such a ritual and then we come to the um the point of the openish the knowledge about the self who am i or what am i um before i go on you know this question who am i what am i actually the question is what am i we often say who am i and i also say that and that's good but it can be misunderstood who am i means who as a person am i especially in this day and age in this country who am i am i a musician am i a you know a writer am i a good person or a bad person i'm talking about the person here who am i that's not the the quest what am i ultimately what's the nature of this person this is it only a body a body mind or there is some eternal reality here that's the quest that's the one which will free us um so he asked this question and he asks it in this way that we know about death that is certain you are the lord of death what lies beyond death now he is not exactly asking that after death do we continue to exist or not that he sort of believes in otherwise he wouldn't have asked about heaven that was the culture he was brought up in everybody believed that there was an afterlife but after life some kind of continuation of this kind of life even that's very limited that's not very satisfying this continuous coming and going even the best kind of heavenly enjoyments all of that is limited is there some ultimate satisfaction if there is some ultimate solution to this problem of life um some answer to the mystery of all of this what is all this what's going on is there some real answer to all of this that's what he's asking or more precisely physical body dies that everybody knows beyond the physical body is the subtle body which comes and goes which takes birth in physical bodies and which goes away at the death of the physical body which goes to heavens and health and is born and reborn he's not asking about that either beyond the subtle body and we will ignore the causal body for the time being beyond all of that beyond all the bodies is the real self atman he's asking about that his question is about that yama does not answer although he is he has promised that he will give him whatever boon he asks for but yamada hesitates he holds back not on purpose not that he is unwilling to give he is most happy we'll see later on he's very delighted with naji keith as a student but he wants to make sure that nachiketa is fit why because if one is not fit all this teaching will not be effective it will not take hold so to say it will not be assimilated so he wants to see if nachiketa is fit and one of the qualifications for fitness is how intense is your search do you really want to know this and educator persists now this is what i want to know and the other qualification for fitness is all the other things that the world presents before you all the enjoyments of this world and the next world all the possibilities of life as a limited sentient being you know as a body mind as this person many possibilities are there so all of this he displays as it were in a supermarket you know all of this you could have naji keta have you thought about it what you are asking instead of that look what this world offers you are a young boy you don't know you can be learned you can live a long life you can have many children and grandchildren you can be enormously rich you can be enormously powerful you can rule over kingdoms um you can have you can be wealthy and the master of all enjoyment he says i will make you the master of all fulfill all your desires whatever desires you have ask give me a christmas shopping list super black friday and whatnot i will fulfill all of that as part of this one boom you don't have to ask for these things separately everything i'm giving a blank check as far as this universe is concerned how about that ask for that and we should really you know use this as a filter for us do we pass this test can we go through this filter or are we going to get caught in this net suppose someone offers us millions of dollars and a long life and a healthy life and a wonderful family life with children and grandchildren who will all do well they will all be long-lived and all no he says none of them will die before you there'll be no tragedies in life big tragedies in your life yeah at the end of it all you'll die and it's all be over but as far as this life is concerned you can design a designer life you can design a life for yourself and i will i can have the power to grant it and you will get it think about it and then he must have noticed that doesn't seem to too convinced now he goes on he says all right there is more to this universe than what you know there is more to it than what you see there are heavens which are attainable after death and there are these extraordinary experiences you can have in heaven and i'm going to give them to you here what about that so that's the next thing he's offering he has offered whatever this world can give whatever we can think of in human life now he's offering something higher something more even better if the what is it costco and all it if that doesn't satisfy you everything costco now please come i can show you fifth avenue all these shops are there and the highest fashions best brands and all all are available you don't have to pay for it i'll give them all to you so what is that higher thing the fifth avenue stuff it's now coming next 25th verse 25th mantra [Music] whatever things there be that are desirable but difficult to get pray for all of those cherished things according to your choice here are these women with chariots and musical instruments such as surely not to be had by models with these who are offered by me you get yourself served oh nachiketa do not inquire about death so what is the offering here let me just add a little explanation about what was the conception of heaven and heavenly pleasures um the details if you want there in another upanishad which will come to eventually in thai theory openish in the second chapter of the criteria condition eighth section it's called anandamimsa a calculus of joy a calculus of happiness so there what they say is think of the maximum happiness in order to teach us what is ananda you know existence consciousness place so in order to talk about what is ananda in brahman that the ultimate spiritual uh bliss so what is bliss itself think about happiness fulfillment pleasure and since we need to think about that we need an unit to measure things you need units like meters and miles and things like that so what about you know kilograms or pounds so how do you measure happiness think about the maximum possible happiness a human being can get and the open issue helps us imagine a young person who is so young to be really happy i can see a lot of elderly people going boo you know turning thumbs down no unfortunately that is the truth that you need to be young to be sort of you know like happy easily all the things which are naturally taken for granted when you are young it take a lot of effort even to maintain it at some possible level physically mentally and all of that when you are much older bill conrad you know he's 97 he keeps telling me old age is not for sisi swami so young to be happy you need to be young and then not only young it's no use being a young but if you're sick so this person is very strong very vigorous um full of enthusiasm really really uh you know vigorous young person strong young person healthy young person but that's also no good if you're poor so this person is rich but enormously rich upanishad says think of the wealth of the world at his disposal so you are you're born into a family of billionaires or something like that or what do they call trust fund babies so today the trust fund baby suppose we have got huge amount of money and then it's no use if you are young and very strong and lot of money but if the person is stupid or uneducated and they're like so this person is highly educated well uh should say this highly educated he's got all the ivy league education and so and so forth and whatever you can think of the best kind of education and sadhu is a good person is a noble person as the best of intentions to use all that wealth and energy and education to do good to people now he says imagine the happiness of such a person rarely such a person comes along in any generation imagine the happiness first of all that's that's the maximum you can think of that is one level of happiness one unit of happiness one is there more than that so the the ritualistic portion of the vedas tell us there is more happiness than that there are superior beings in this universe you are not aware of but it is possible how do you get more happiness three things you need an adequate body for enjoying more happiness there is more happiness in these higher realms called heavens but the human body cannot take that kind of happiness the human body would die it's like passing a million volt current through something that it cannot withstand it so you have a superior body i guess something like superman or something like that spider man i don't know like a superhero body you have higher bodies and these things which you enjoy in this world the food and drink and music these are gross these are actually low grade poor quality there are much higher quality things to be enjoyed in the heavens extraordinary things to be enjoyed so the vishaya object of enjoyment is also much superior and finally loka the environment where you're enjoying that is also much superior that also depends happiness depends on the environment you can have a you know like a cup of coffee on a cart outside in on on broadway one of those you know the carts which sell food and you can queue up there in cold and have a cup of coffee or you can have the same cup of coffee in um you know what is the hotel media so some five star hotel or something like that why is that so much better because the lower car the environment is much better so it three things will determine your the level of your pleasure your satisfaction body a much better body better model and then vishaya objects of enjoyment but superior and finally the environment for enjoyment and these upanishads says there are multiple grades there are superior and superior bodies and the openness gives a list of what possible bodies you can think about in the afterlife after death you get these supernatural bodies which are called uh heavenly uh not heavenly bodies that people mistake it for stars and planets no but um i guess superior grades of bodies superior grades of enjoyable objects and superior environments so there are different locus multiple levels of heavens they speak about and how do you go that go there you need punya you need credit what kind of credit karma credit you need to have lots of good karma for that you need to have led a moral life and you need to have been a biased person who has devote who has performed many vedic rituals which will give you all that and you can go to these heavens and there are multiple levels and the titanium connection speaks up a hundred times the enjoyment of the maximum human enjoyment remember that that young rich healthy good highly educated person a hundred times that enjoyment is possible in the lowest heaven and a hundred times of that in the next higher heaven and a hundred times of that in the next higher heaven all the names of the heavens are given the kinds of bodies you may expect those are described or given in the anandam imam you can subtitles the highest one can aspire for in the vedic scheme of things the idea of the like literally it's literally the seventh heaven you talk about seventh heaven and if you count the seven lokas it is the seventh level literally interesting i don't know where this concept came from and there the enjoyment that you get i sat and calculated so it is 10 to the power 20 of the maximum possible human happiness you can dream of 10 to the power 20. if you try to conceive of it we will probably get a stroke now that much range of pleasure and enjoyment is promised by the ritualistic portions of the vedas and that's what now yama is going to offer naji keta so that's what he's offering remember these are worldly pleasures and those are other worldly pleasures but they're still pleasures they're still things of i am in limited being and increasing my happiness more and more happiness that's it you'll see now nachiketa is so incisive he points out the defects of all of this next so what is yama offering he says in this mortal world human world the things which are impossible to get i promised you whatever you can get in this world um money power children and grandchildren long life uh wealth but there is something much higher than all of this superior now i've often thought the lowest heaven is described as the karma gandharva lowest but what is it like these are supposed to be celestial beings who are musicians artists now imagine i actually read about the the great composer uh beethoven i think who became deaf and yet he could hear music in his mind and of a much higher grade than people who would hear the actual physical music with their ears and he could keep on composing imagine that kind of capacity not just for music for art for literature or any kind of of the higher creative you know endeavors of humanity imagine the life that one could have if one could be immersed in that kind of superior activity and that's supposed to be the lowest possible heaven so he says all those extraordinary things enjoyments millions of times more intense than what you get in human life ask for them send that up as you wish in in sequence ask one after them you give me a list a checklist i'll pay for you it's like amazon prime gift card i'm giving you endless gift card you buy whatever you like on amazon prime but this is heavenly amazon prime iman they are supposed to be absurd heavenly names who sing and dance and they come with their uh musical instruments saturya means with their musical instruments it's a rock band you can be part of a rock band or something like heavenly rock band whatever it is then you have all sorts of wonderful musical instruments and saratha means chariots in those days they could think of chariots you will get your the best heavenly suvs and what not possible all of that you get naheed risha impossible for mere mortals to experience those with these gifts given to you freely by me all in one boom enjoy use them for your enjoyment get yourself satisfied served by them but only one condition don't ask me about the mystery of death what lies beyond this varanama prakshi what an exchange in exchange of boring vedanta classes after all what is nasi keta asking he's asking about vedanta in exchange for boring veda hunter classes you're going to get this lifelong party so who wouldn't uh agree to it and you know straight away no no um you see a little deeper understanding of what what is nachiketa asking why najigata will reject all this because ananda bliss the freedom of this place jivan mukti is freedom while living that's what manchester actually ultimately wants what is the nature of this freedom he also wants happiness but he is deep enough profound enough to see that this happiness true happiness does not is not conditional what do i mean by conditional you see it's like this there's a deeper meaning to this this is if you think about it this way it's how interesting i want happiness you want happiness we all want happiness but the moment you say i want happiness um from this person you know from husband wife children then you've made your happiness conditional yes i want happiness but it has to come through husband wife children then what has happened is you don't want happiness you want husband-wife children if you make it conditional it has to come through that i have this feeling it is here and it has to come through that you have the moment you say happiness is here with this person you have tied yourself to that person you have invested your happiness in that person it's no longer free it's not jivan mukti the happiness is not free anymore it has become conditional on that person happiness must come through money yes i want happiness but through money i have to be rich to be happy you have made happiness conditional on wealth you want wealth not happiness somewhere you see there is some deep psychological mistake we are making we are limiting our happiness making it conditional on wealth on pleasure on persons no matter who friends man woman children making it conditional on that the moment you've made yourself conditioned your happiness conditional you it's no longer free that thing now has power over you more wealth you will feel i will get more happy you never will because there is no happiness there there is no happiness in wealth there is no happiness in husband in wife in children in friends no happiness but we have made the deep mistake of thinking happiness is fair and now we have tied ourselves to those things and we have given them power over our happiness and that will make you unhappy this is the nature of bondage where you have given up your happiness to things in the world when you free your happiness from things in the world what is things in the world anatma not self other than you it could be persons it could be places it could be money it could be jobs it could be praise it could be fame it could be likes on facebook all of these things if i have sold my happiness to them i have you know kept my happiness in their power they're going to make me unhappy and it's so unnecessary because the happiness is actually not theirs it's my happiness it comes from the self from the atman the criteria openation ultimately proves that it's not in the human happiness it's not in heavenly happiness not even the brahma's 10 to the power 20 happiness all of that it comes from you the self so what is najib actually asking and why he rejects all this the deep philosophical meaning of all this is that all of these what he is proposing yama raja is making happiness conditional you are saying my happiness depends on children and grandchildren my happiness depends on a long life my happiness depends on power my happiness depends on money no i don't agree you are saying my happiness depends on going to heaven no i don't agree this is what nachiketa will say freeing your happiness from the not-self is jivan mukti freedom my happiness is independent of anything in the universe my happiness is not sold to the universe from whom now i will go around with a begging bowl give me happiness to whom oh husband oh wife oh children give me happiness oh grandchildren give me happiness you're asking for trouble oh boss give me happiness oh facebook likes give me happy social media give me happiness no you're asking for serious trouble you have sold your happiness to them doesn't want that he wants yes i want all the happiness you are promising but i don't want them under the condition of what you are saying from these things which you are giving me this this is the the great trick that maya plays on us the great hoax it convinces you your happiness is not your happiness it is in these things the more you get of this more happy you will be naji keta wants to free his happiness from these conditions he's not against happiness he wants all of it and much more but not from these people from these the list of things which yama is showing him that's the deep profound thing about it he wants freedom from what he wants to free his happiness from this he wants to free his knowledge from particular knowledges that i am consciousness itself therefore i am free of all kinds of ignorance he wants to be free of the fear of coming and going this earth and heaven and hell this forever this circle of birth and death freedom from that the ignorance which traps me in this body and mind freedom from that the suffering of various kinds freedom from that how will knowledge of vedanta give him flight freedom because i have that freedom because i am sat chit ananda because i am such infinite being i am actually free of the cycle of birth and death the fear of coming and going because i am chit ever shining um choicelessly shining conditionlessly shining consciousness infinite consciousness therefore i am forever free of the darkness of ignorance because i'm of the nature of ananda unlimited therefore forever i am free of all those villains in the form of the thousand and one things which yama is promising those who are promising me coming come here i will give you happiness i'm free of all of them because my happiness is mine infinite happiness does it's not yours that is that's why self-knowledge because you are satchi if you can know that then you have it you are free you are free of the fear of birth and death you are free of the fear of ignorance you are free of the fear of sorrow forever that's what is asking nachiketa shankaracharya says beautifully he says at this point does he get to listen to all of that carefully and he was like a vast lake what is this vast lake example um srirama krishna used this example for vivekananda he says in our village we have seen there are little ponds pukur in bengali means pond the place where sriram krishna was born is called kamakura the pond of the commerce a lot of ponds in bengal but a few of them are huge they're called digi the huge the lakes large lakes so he says in a pond if an elephant enters a pond all the water splashes out it's all muddy and it's a mess but if that elephant walks into this one of these vast lakes this is hardly a ripple it makes no difference to the lake if an elephant walks into it so you the spiritual seeker has to be like this vast lake nachiketa is he replied to yama the lord of death look at the reply of this little boy to all this temptation oh death ephemeral are these and they waste away the vigor of all the organs that a man has all life without exception is short indeed let the vehicles be yours let the dances and songs be yours you see how cheeky this boy is yama offered in this entire list of wonderful things nasi keta says keep your song and dance and yes the suvs also you keep the keys to the suv i don't want any of this i want to know what am i i want to know the mystery of death answer that question so i'll just go over this verse it's such a beautiful verse why is it important for us because this this shows nachiketa's fitness what was the fitness in sincere inquiry the desire to be free mumbook that already nashukit has shown and also now he is showing the viveka the discernment between the eternal and the non-eternal the entire range of non-eternal joys has been set out before him worldly and otherworldly who can give it to all of this he can immediately instantly grant all this an educator has a discrimination as a discernment to see all this is non-eternal and the eternal joy or bliss is the self the self knowledge he has the dispassion also strongly by rajya i don't want any of this so he's going to say this now instead of saying yama he says the one who brings mortal worlds and lives to an end you you are the culprit i am rejecting all this which is being offered by you because of you you bring everything to an end swami very kind of says this very poignantly he says death comes for all of us um saints die sinners die emperors die poppers die learn it die and so do the ignorant everybody dies death comes from it's it's inevitable rajikita says oh you the ender of of worlds whether or not these things will remain the next day next moment we have no idea none of the things we are promising they are all none of them are permanent none of them are stable so whether it be here today or tomorrow we don't know whether i will be here today or tomorrow i don't know why because of you you will bring it to an end even if you promise me long life and you do give me long life one day you will come for me and that will be the last day of my life and he is very clear about this all these desires are shwabhava shankaracharya says in his commentary [Music] whether these things will be there or i will be there tomorrow or not nothing husband why children grandchildren money status fame health life itself tomorrow itself will it be there or not we don't know we don't think about it that's how normal ordinary life goes on you think about it um somebody vivekananda recommended meditation on death to one of his disciples and the disciples said but it will make us depressed swamiji paused for a moment and considered it and he said yes only initially then you'll be set free you'll be free of the fear of death it is doubtful show up however whether tomorrow it will be there or not doubtful not only that not only death that will all come to an end surely and when it will come to an end also we don't know there's no guarantee and even when it is there make make a hay while the sun shines make merry you have got some time enjoy life um you live only once yolo so enjoy enjoy life now he says all the senses sensory powers they decline very fast the capacities for enjoyment are very limited some people can enjoy life a little more some a little less but even those who can enjoy it are limited so in vivekananda who among you can eat with the same gusto as a dog have you seen when you give the food a dish food to the dog how the dog jumps upon it how eagerly i remember in the ashram in santa barbara so mataji had this little dog who'd i said how devoted he is to you look the little dog was always staring with great devotion mataji mother he said no no not to me he's waiting for the treat this is a so anybody who's a dog knows that they're waiting for the treat they like you they love you of course but they're the main thing is the treat that's why every country says who among you can eat with the same gusto as food and as it goes for food but every kind of enjoyment i remember when we were little kids there is a the latest technology at that time was video cassette player and that also of course our parents did not have but you are allowed in those days you could hire it from shops and their video cassettes in videos all those things have gone technology has gone ahead much further but then you could so we were allowed after our examination to see a movie for one day so the video cassette player would be brought to the house for one day and we would have a choice of movies to see for one day and i remember how much i packed in because the little bit sent off the next day so i saw so many movies till my eyes were blurry so one of my teachers school teachers asked me how many movies did you say let's see i said three or four or something each of them two or three hours he said are you a human being or an animal how only animals consume like that i still remember that it's exactly what naji keta is saying all our sensory powers even the powers of the animals are also limited surveying their powers decline summer said mom's beautiful line if you single-mindedly pursue pleasure very soon you will find nothing pleasing anymore so all those who continuously party here in manhattan or in hollywood you know los angeles and all they they realize this very soon that they get all of that enjoyment goes away and all of that is ultimately very little and he says he says you're rated surveying if i indulge in pleasures sensuous pleasure pleasures a lot food drink making meri [Music] as you indulge your pleasures you lose morality you lose ethical life dharma very you lose the vigor the sheer power of your prana it's being wasted and scattered in 100 different directions knowledge is lost literally becoming stupid the more you end engage in sense pleasures um [Music] the brightness in literally you can see the brightness go out of a person's face yasha fame all your reputation will be destroyed pragriti and all good things in life the more you indulge in sense pleasures they will leave you fast and nashiketa says this is what you are promising me surveindriyanam jaryanti yes but heaven for thousands of years you can go to heaven and enjoy life i'm promising you that also that is what yama he told in this earlier verse all of that is too little even the life of the gods in heavens with thousands of times more pleasure than ordinary human beings with better local environments with better vishaya good goods to be enjoyed you know fifth avenue stuff and with better sharira superior bodies to enjoy these things sarubam alpha all that is too little too little once it is over it's too little too late um they say there's a saying that one of the greatest tragedies is to be a god in these heavens because when your karma is fulfilled karma is exhausted once your good karma is exhausted you're expelled once your credit is no good all these big hotels and nightclubs and bars they will expel you and then back from there this this god they say like they fall from heaven crying alas because they can see the contrast between where they're going to end up in this world and what they have been enjoying so it's like the story of the billionaire who lost his money and was only down to the last few millions and he committed suicide he couldn't bear the thought of being so poor of having only a few million dollars so the best human life in comparison to the pleasures of heaven it seems full of suffering and misery and too short so they fall from the heavens crying alas alas and he's saying that all of that is too little in the end it will be too little and too late he says brahman the creator of the universe not god the demigod who creates the universe even that that that much is attainable by these rituals the karma kanda promises he says even that the highest thing that you can promise me that's how much 10 to the power 20 i calculated even that he says it's too little whereas americans would say peanuts it's peanuts you are offering me peanuts then he goes on [Music] man is not to be satisfied with wealth now that we have met you we shall get wealth we shall live as long as you will rule but that boon that is worth praying for by me is that alone goes on what about wealth big question being rich he is very categorical this is this wisdom we all hear this money does not make one happy educator says that now with tanya tarpani amanush a man is not human beings are not satiated by wealth this is something to what thinking about wealth is necessary is is good makes for a comfortable life but that's it that's it after a certain point there's no use being like scrooge you know i come accumulating more and more wealth which somebody else will enjoy somebody else will enjoy maybe not even your children and grandchildren maybe the government will take it up or maybe somebody else will take it away what was the point of all that you know um the suffering and the hard work and attention for accumulating all of that which which can go in in a stock market crash which can be given to unworthy children who will dissipate it probably damage their lives more than doing any good to them it can happen many generations we have seen many wealthy families i know of in india parents and grandparents have worked hard to accumulate and grandchildren have just dissipated the whole thing what good did it do didn't do any good it actually harmed them all that wealth and so he says here human beings are not satisfied with well it you cannot reach fulfillment through wealth man does not live by bread alone and so on now the next part is interesting he says just by the way um all the studies psychological studies also show this that from poverty to certain amount of a recent standard of living wealth does increase happiness so if you have a place to stay a decent food to eat children educated health facilities basic health facilities all of that actually significantly increases your at least felt level of happiness but beyond that it becomes very fuzzy people always feel if i had a few thousand dollars more i would be much happier but actually when you try to see how much happiness they have after getting that money not much difference initially yes win the lottery very happy six months later six years later they find not much difference in from the baseline to this not much difference in happiness then he says nazi care is practical he is not denying the importance of money look what he says next and this boy is really cheeky he says anyway i know you so i've got friends in powerful face places and you're my friend so i'm going to be wealthy i mean when i go back he's already made up that his mind is going to go back you're obviously going to send me with presents give me a check or something like that i'll be very rich as we have seen you you've got your darshan and we're going to go back to earth obviously we will be wealthy we will do well we have had this great fortune of meeting you you will certainly bless me with a lot of money and you're talking about long life look how mischievous he is we will live long i will live long why as long as you are in charge of the department of death you're my pal right you won't you're not going to kill me but before my time so yeah as long as you rule over this department of death so these are departments in the hindu pantheon these are not permanent posts we can all become the lord of death or the lord of fire or whatever it is god of fire in the next cycle of the universe if you've got lots of good karma and if you don't get liberation lots of good karma you become a god in the next universe but these are departments and so rajikita says as long as you are in charge of this department it's like knowing the the boss or the minister or somebody who's in charge of something we'll be i'll be safe you're not going to kill me uh right away right so you're my friend so i'll have a long life and i'll have lots of money too so the importance of money is not being denied nobody denies it in in india one of the forms in which you worship god is lakshmi who's also the goddess of myth saraswati who is the goddess of learning one of the swamis we have is in charge of a big educational institution he says every day i realize that lakshmi and saraswati go together they are sisters because you need grants and donations to run big institutes i saw one of the biggest causes of you know the excellence at harvard in my experience was their endowment you get the feeling there if you stay there long enough there is enormous wealth around there's no display of that well and there is but not much but it's made possible by enormous wealth anything they want and the administrators not anybody else they can get it was 40 billion dollars it's the largest endowment in the world at that time now i hear they're doing even better after the corona virus thing it's gone up to more than 50 billion dollars imagine university with that much enormous amount of health so you need lakshmi for saraswati you need wealth for knowledge and naji keta is not saying no he says it's good if i'm going to be wealthy and comfortable live a long life i'm sure i will but that's not the point he says that's not the point the only thing worth asking for is that self-knowledge none of the rest nothing else what you have offered me is worth asking for it's a great lesson to us it's a lesson we will learn if we learn it easily listening to nachiketa good for us otherwise through long and painful experience there's a saying that in india the best of people learn from teachings from the teachings of their elders from the texts the middling level of people they learn by watching others what experiences they're going through and they avoid those mistakes and do the right things and the lowest category of people they learn by kicks and blows so if you don't learn either by watching people around us what life is bringing them we watch rich people watch poor people watch learned people watch ordinary people average people and see what is happening to their lives and know that we are also not different from them we are not all that superior or better or the same thing what is happening to them will happen watch old people watch sick people what is happening to them will happen to us you can't avoid it and you prepare and the best of people of course they learn just by teaching so someone like nachiketa he has understood all of this just by listening you know by his own samskaras then next goes on 28th [Music] street having reached the proximity of the undecaying immortals what decaying mortal who dwelts on this lower region the earth but knows of higher goals will take delight in a long life while conscious of the worthlessness of music the sport and the joy are thereof what he's saying here is look i have seen you i have seen the realm of the gods how wonderful your life is why should i want who which foolish one after seeing these things will want things in the world people of the world they live such short lives they live such miserable lives what they pursue is inherently worthless all those things who will want so one meaning of this those who are undecaying amrita means immortal the undecaying immortals one meaning is the gods the gods of heaven shankaracharya also says that but the deeper meaning is of course yama himself is enlightened he is a knower of brahman he knows that i am ram and he's enlightened so that knowledge having seen that that meaning i'm drawing out but one direct meaning could be having seen the heavenly realms who cares about being in on you know getting things on the on this mortal world i don't care about that but this heavenly reals also nachiketh already has criticized so it's not that he wants to go to heaven he thinks i want to be a god like you i want to be enlightened like in christian theology this is called holy envy envy is bad but holy envy is good you are envious of the spiritual status stature of the great masters of the enlightened ones the saints i want to be like that i remember feeling that when when i would see a very reviewed monk you know once i got this feeling it was like envy i want what you have it's incredible you have something which is not of this earth um yesterday in the gospel class i mentioned swami nir mukhtan and maharaj you know the one who said sri ramakrishna got hold of my hand and i was entering that ashram said this is your last life you will not come again he used to go around on the this is to be wheeled around on that little wheelchair of his in the monastery he's more than 100 years old he passed at the age of um a little over 100 years anyway i still remember a monk whom i respect a lot a senior to me who is learned and a great worker and he's a founder of an ashram and so and so forth if you want to see measures of success of being a monk you stick to all the boxes the hr department of the monastery would give a good report about it i'm joking that there's nothing like that but the monk that monk told me do you see that old upend maharaj on his wheelchair you know he used these words that old man the very ground he walks upon i consider myself fortunate to roll in the dust he walks upon if i could have a fraction of the holiness he has so this is that he's saying having seen this glory of spiritual realization and god literally god shining through your eyes who would want these things in the world what you are offering me jiren matya this ageing tyrion means aging decaying bodies old age sickness muthy or death in this lower world this lower world because he's in heaven from that perspective he's saying in that lower world there who would want avid dhyan having considered having evaluated pramoda here it means music here all the things which were offered music sensual pleasures and pramada means delights all kinds of delights like partying continuously having evaluated all of that and known the defects of all of this in this world which intelligent person would want even to live long see he's doing just the opposite yama is assuring him don't worry about dying you will live long you'll die one day but long life you will get i bless you i am the controller of death he says who wants to live long what are you sentencing me to this nasty little world with its poisons with its uh endless sorrows and afflictions such a higher life such a wonderful life is is possible by seeing you itself i understand enlightenment is possible god realization is possible who cares about living in this world so you're saying that whom the gods love they take young swami vivekananda 39 he used to say i won't live to say 40. and he was perfectly happy with it what's the point of living more than this i have done what i want to do so he said naji keta here that's why you can see vivekananda love magiketa he said again and again he would praise the character of indicator then he will repeat that question we will see next time he will again sum up his arguments like a good lawyer closing arguments closing statement he will say therefore back to that question i want to know about the atman the nature of the self okay quickly god of says problem is that true renunciation is truly possible when one has viveka discrimination between real and unreal the discrimination is truly possible in one rests in outman truly possible yes it seems that viveka knowing what his self not self starts this path and everything else follows instead of focusing how much renunciation i have i bring myself to awake and find that renunciation arises from the vehicle keeps me in sync with inner peace correct i told you earlier also the qualifications which are necessary for with aveda viveka the discernment of the eternal and the non-eternal vairagya dispassion for worldliness for the non-eternal the disciplines the six-fold treasures and intense desire for freedom but they are all causally connected causally connected which means one depends on the earlier one if you complain i don't have intense desire for freedom then go back to the cultivation of the six treasures i don't have those disciplines i'm not a very disciplined person go back to intense dispassion for the world why not yet but i don't have intense dispassion for the world go back to viveka the clear discernment but i don't have the discernment as god of says it's only possible when one rests on the atman when one realizes the atman yes ultimately but before that if you make that a condition then vedanta cannot start because we don't really know ourselves as the atman so before that this discernment rests on study of vedanta for on knowing that these things are possible on on looking in at the lives of the enlightened persons just like nashiketa looks at yama and is inspired such a life is possible [Music] um a monk told us you know in our generation their generation they had such wonderful masters who taught them in the when they were novices and he says he said to me while looking at these senior monks who taught us vedanta we used to feel oh by learning vedanta by becoming vedantins one can become like this such personality is such wonderful life we can have so we also must get this knowledge their life was an inspiration so from that you get viveka i want that i don't want anything else they are causally connected rama says it feels feels like a vicious circle exactly what i was saying if you know yourself and can rest in atman enunciation would be a natural state yes for knowing ourselves very high level of renunciation is required yes but not a vicious certainty knowing about ourselves it comes from all this from the study of vedanta from looking at the lives of enlightened beings from examining that's why these verses are important you might say well get impatient we used to get impatient with qatar panisha and look at the manduki upanishad how straight to the point and direct and powerful it is and here is going on and on i don't want this i don't want that and yama is going on tempting him here take money take cars take children and grandchildren what is all this but this is important to understand the whole spiritual quest until this the weeds which lie in the ground of our mind until they are pulled out by the roots it will not work you may read the manduka you may read the ashtavakra and be inspired but then you will complain it's not working why am i not able to be like ramana maharshi the difference lies here the real difference is what nachiketa points out this thing has to be cleared up first in our understanding are these things worth having why are they not worth having remember what i told you it's very profound point about freeing your suffering from these limiters freeing your ananda from these limitations we have made another conditional on these things notice it's a it's a hoax these things cannot give us bliss and yet we think these things in the worldly things other worldly things will give us place this confusion first has to be cleared up this will give us wave so it's not vicious circle we awake is something that happens or can it be really cultivated it can be cultivated read the lives of the saints um read what majikita is saying consider what has happened in your own life in the lives of others wealthy people successful people artistic people scientific people families family people all of them consider their lives and then think am i going to repeat the whole thing viveka will come that way we all have some level of viveka by the way if we didn't we wouldn't be here on a wednesday evening here there are 80 people they could be doing many more things so many entertainments are available like yama would have given us the whole list of tv channels and you know broadway shows and whatnot is available go there don't come to the vedanta class well you like naked kate have rejected all that and you have decided to come to the vedanta class so you have viveka and vairagya alpana says can how to get that final grace of god guru to flip over to the other side by effort keep on making the effort suramar krsna said grace of god comes through your in remember yesterday we read your intense prayer to god and practicing spiritual disciplines it's like the wind of grace is always blowing raise the sail of your boat raising the sail of your boat is making that much effort punita says if one has reached this level of the awake won't he or she be choicelessly enlightened at some point the limit of vivek ultimately is the discernment between the eternal non-eternal i am brahman no i am not body mind i'm the manaubud i'm not the mind not the intellect not the ego not the memory i am consciousness so that's the limit of discernment we wake up but that's final that's enlightenment it results in enlightenment but we must start at whatever level of the vehicle we have prabhu vasu says with the upanishads there at the time time huh what is this time to think about it see that's why you will see the traditional pundits never bother about was nachiketa historical or not and you know they will actually say no not historically what a stunning thing you are saying see if uh it is historical then there was a particular time when nashiketa was there then therefore then this upanishads and all they become within they become you know like within time according to traditional knowledge upanishads vedas are timeless it's not important so isn't it important for naji keta to be there no the teaching is important the knowledge is important whether it was historical or not i remember we're sitting in a class conducted by ramananda saraswati a very great traditional master and somebody asked about the historicity of the bhagavad-gita keep on searching that's a good research project for you i have nothing to do with such things it's not important this knowledge does it work for you in some of these texts you are actually talking about historical figures and historical dialogues in some of these texts this just a method of presenting the knowledge to you the knowledge is important geeta dev says nachiketa seems to be proving to yammer that he's a proper adhikari for the higher knowledge he seeks correct he is proving his sadhan chatushra his enquiry has been proved his dispassion vairagya has been proved his vivek has been proved that he can clearly distinguish between eternal and non-eternal and vairagya has complete dispassion in in fact contempt for i would say contempt because he knows the value of all of that but he knows it perfectly well what they can do and they cannot do he's not at all moved by any of this what about the six fold yamanyama and not yemen those things he has demonstrated all of that when he waited for three days without food or drink in front of yama's door so all of that he has demonstrated tamiko says if nachiketas realizes his infinite self in some sense won't death be out of a job yes and death will be delighted might be this be the pathway the reason why death tends to educate us with the worldly pleasure so that that can remain relevant no because death is actually yama here is enlightened so he is most happy at the end of this upanishad he will say let there be more students like you i'm so delighted with you the divine mother there's a beautiful song about kali the divine mothers compared to a little girl flying kites and we are all these kites we are tied by the string of karma to our hand we are completely helpless in our head but she's flying the kites the little girl and this is actually a sight you see in india i mean less now but i have seen it in my childhood little boys and girls flying kites now once in a while the string of a kite gets cut and it floats away into the sky out of her reach and the song says the divine mother little girl she jumps in joy and claps her hands in delight look at that one float away but it's one in a million says the song and she's delighted when one escapes that's the purpose of the game of life for enlightenment and yaman himself at the end of this upanishad you will see he praises nachiketa highly and he says let us have more students like yoon educator all right importance of satsang yes absolutely um john anderson says could you please comment on the idea of the impermanence of the heavens now chica's decision versus the idea of the permanence of heaven in other traditions as in how would a permanent heaven idea have influenced the chicken yes so there is a permanent heaven that is the theistic heavens of um of the devotional religions so when somebody says out of devotion to god i will go and live forever in heaven that's also a kind of mukti freedom because they will never be born on this earth and it's not for partying in heaven in all these things which the yama provided no it's to remain eternally in the presence of god so that's a devotional heaven that's the heaven of christianity that's the heaven of islam judaism that's the heaven of vaishnavism shaktism you know like devi loka or shaivism kailasha the pure land of the buddha so you are free but you retain your individuality you do not merge into the infinite you remain in a devotional relationship with god vedanta calls that brahmaloka vedanta calls it brahmaloka what vedanta called brahmaloka is the devotional heaven of the religions though that heaven is spiritual that heaven is spiritual but higher than that is what naked is asking as the case is asking for infinitude right here right now that heaven is still lowered because there you retain a relationship with saguna brahman you are a liberated jiva living in an eternal loving devotional relationship with with god in the form that you love in the in you know with shiva vishnu with durga kali whatever it is so that is the idea of heaven a permanent heaven in the dualistic religions in the theistic religions and that's there in hinduism also and that's a laudable goal but still lower than what nachiket is asking rodrigo says yama was appointed the position was the first to die yes there is truth no that's the story yes so that's part of the story patrick says what were shankar's comments and najib is talking about being wealthy and having a long life um i don't think he commented much about it he just says najigeta here means um in any case i'm going to be wealthy enough and live a long life because i know you and that's all doesn't comment much about it and by the way suicide is not what is meant by who wants to live here for a long time because if one commits suicide one comes back here again you're just prolonging your suffering the only way to get out of this is spirituality not by killing oneself yes prana points out bharathi coach i remember watching it as a kid in on tv and the episode where episode 10 nachiketa story was narrated very beautifully and somebody says lottery winners have a very high higher suicide rate i didn't know that that's terrible i was wondering why would nachiketa ask for the first two boons that he did are they just a teaching device to show the evolution from karma kanda to gyanakanda yes that's one of the meanings definitely says ramakrishna to make so much effort to see the divine mother what hope is there for us siram krishna says i have done all 16 parts you have to do only one one sixteenth of what happened he says this he has shown everything possible in the path of sadhana as much as possible to show and a variety of realizations neither do we have to go through so much of suffering and hard work but not also you will get so many types of realization we just need one the example of the little ant who saw a mountain of sugar and he dragged one grain of it with great difficulty to its hole and looked back i'm going to come back and take the whole mountain not necessary that one little grain would fill its stomach you realize brahman in whatever way you are free and that's all you need you don't have to be sriracha nor do you have to be very clear nor do you have to put forth all that effort rodrigo says you can you say that enlightenment is an experience that denies all prior experiences as false no it shows you the truth behind all experiences it shows you that the names and forms are appearances and there's an underlying reality all prior experiences were the mixture of that reality and name and form good [Music] krishna [Music]