Video 29

29. Katha Upanishad | Mantra 2.1.10 | Swami Sarvapriyananda

[Music] [Music] om may the lord protect us both the teacher and the taught together by revealing knowledge may the lord protect us both by giving us the results of knowledge may we attain vigor together let what we study be invigorating be illuminating maybe not cavale at each other home peace peace peace so we are studying the upanishads in this class and this is the kathopanishad we are studying last time we were on chapter two section one one ninth mantra yatashiyode from which the sun rises and in which the spinach it sets are fixed all the deities none ever transcends that this indeed is that all right so what's going on here what we did in the last class is in this section yama the lord of death the teacher is establishing oneness the central teaching of vedanta is oneness swami vivekananda in one place he says that the only religion is oneness so everything all religions are trying to establish that the only true religion is oneness now how do you establish oneness um at the level of existence consciousness please sachin and the level of appearance there is no oneness and at a physical level there's no oneness at a mental level there's no oneness even at the causal level it seems to be one causal level by me i mean what we experience in deep sleep for example seems to be one blankness your deep sleep my deep sleep they seem to be same but the seeds of manifestation are there the vasanas the distinctions are there in a suppressed form in you know like a hibernating form so when it comes out you can see all the differences deep sleep the causal level is basically all differences are there but covered up as it were a blanket of darkness there's no um oneness at the level causal subtle and physical levels by the way when i say causal subtle and physical levels what i mean is easily understood when we look at ourselves when we look at ourselves we see this physical body so this is called the physical level gross level sanskrit stool then inside when we look inside by inside me physically inside the body in our experience of ourselves when you look into yourselves you find thoughts feelings emotions ideas memories the person you think we think ourselves to be the person that is the subtle level all thoughts are there memories are there desires are there our our personal history our understanding intellect memory ego the sense of ego that's all subtle level then when we look further back we generally don't think of anything more than this but there's a deeper level uh an experience of for example the blankness of deep sleep where just is the same darkness uniform darkness if you go into deep sleep that is called the causal level in sanskrit karna karana sukshmas thula subtly and causal subtle and gross so i've done this mantra last time so i just quickly summarize i'm using this and all the other mantras which preceded it to summarize what what goes on what's been going on so we have these three experiences physical subtle causal like this the entire universe uh it also has a physical circle and causal the physical part of it is clear to us this is what we experience but vedanta in common with other indian philosophers most of the indian but not all says that there is a cosmic subtle level also called the cosmic mind just as we have individual minds at a subtle level there's a cosmic mind which is nothing more than all minds connected together the cosmic mind and there's a cosmic causal level also which is like our deep sleep but connected together and that is called maya now or at all of these levels there is just difference bodies are different from each other minds are different from each other personalities are different from each other even at the cosmic level it's one mass of differences what vedanta wants to say and what yama is teaching nachiketa is behind all of that is one existence and all of this all of these differences are appearances which come to consciousness in consciousness as nothing other than consciousness think of variety of waves and foam and bubbles and all in in what in ocean but they're all one mass of water they all look different they act differently we have different names for them wave form um surf but they're all water at that level they are one similarly there is one level where everything is one the individual physical subtle causal and the cosmic physical subtle causal what is that one level it is existence consciousness place that sounds pretty theoretical pretty speculative no it's you in other words vedanta says you are the that win which everything becomes one without any difference but to understand that of course you have to go through the earlier stages of vedanta you know to to first of all step back and see you are not a body you are not a mind you are not even beyond the mind the causal state you are the witness consciousness in which all of these appear and these are nothing different from that consciousness similarly the cosmos is also nothing different from that consciousness and multiple names are given to this consciousness when they associate with the three levels three levels at the individual level three levels at the cosmic level three individual levels the um consciousness at the with the causal level individually is called blood gear consciousness at the cosmic level at the causal stage is called ishwara consciousness at the um subtle level individual state is called digester same consciousness one consciousness at the cosmic level with all the minds together is called hiranyakarpa so you're learning these names and then the same consciousness at the physical level with one body plus mind plus causal body is called vishwa the same consciousness with a cosmic level with all physical bodies the entire universe as its body is called virat but all of them are nothing but one existence consciousness place which you the real you are this is what has been proved till now or he wants to demonstrate and he keeps saying this is that which you asked about oh nachiketa this was your third question that one reality underlying the entire universe and that's you but the real you now he sums up the entire teaching in this tenth a mantra what what teaching oneness he says there is oneness here it looks like many then he tells us the advantage of seeing oneness and the great disadvantage indeed the danger of seeing many tenth mantra very important mantra tenth it's often quoted in vedanta especially shankaracharya loves this mantra what is in what indeed is here is there what in what is there is here likewise he who sees as though there is difference here goes from death to death okay that's a dire warning so he says what is here is there what is there is here very important statement and powerful state statement of oneness what does he mean by there and here here means what i think of myself this poor little fellow server priyanda here is the body here is it's the mind intellect and memory the ego which says i serve a priyananda and a name server priyananda and my life such as it is what i think of life and what i do in life my success is and failures this is this is who i am says no that's not who you are what is there there is brahman existence consciousness the absolute reality of the of the universe so what is from which have come which is in association with the with the causal maya is ishwara in association with cosmic mind becomes irene by an association with the physical universe that becomes um virat and when associated with the cosmic level of maya and cosmic mind and in universe is so different from me that level that one is omniscient i know so little i may run to the library every day of my life i will still end up knowing very little and whatever i know they'll soon forget and that one is omniscient and doesn't forget but i think it was elliot so one of the most scary poems i've read talking about the judgment day about he who remembers the world may forget i may forget what i have done but there's one who does not forget i may explain away what i have done but there's one who knows how to ask questions whom you cannot explain so the last lines of that poem where that is about judgment day when you're face to face with god what will you do on that day when you are you stand before he who knows how to ask questions so it's it's scary the whole idea of being condemned by our our littleness our sins our miseries but god is omniscient god knows everything not only that god is pure god is a clean record book and i am impure i have got so many sins and bad karma being driven from life to life so i am miserable i am little knowing i am small i am subject to birth and death i am being whirled around in the wheel of samsara god is omniscient god is not small god is huge is omnipresent is bigger than the universe itself the universe exists in god god is pure god is not subject to karma god is not subject to birth and death even when god takes birth it's out of his own choice as incarnation so there's here and there and a great great difference and here comes vedanta to say no the americans put it even better nope nope nope there is no difference that which is there is here that which is here is there how is that possible how can the microcosm and the macrocosm be the same how can one and the infinite be the same it is because what is appearing as one and what is appearing as infinity what is appearing as microcosm appearing as the totality it's one and that is existence consciousness please um in the tithiri upanishad they talk about the in the human bliss and the divine blessed place of god and they have a calculus of bliss in thai theory of upanishad that's the second chapter brahmana the bliss of brahman so what could be the maximum human bliss you are as rich as uh elon musk and you are um you have degrees from ivy league colleges and i'm not exaggerating that's exactly what the opening shot says not literally elon musk and ivy colleges highly educated all the wealth of the world is there and yes you are young so the upanishad recognizes very early on five thousand years ago you have to be young to be happy it's a lot of work to be happy when you're old so you're young and he says not only young you're strong you're vigorous you're healthy you're highly educated you have all the money and power at your disposal and you're a good natured person i mean since you have a noble person you have got high and glorious ideas of doing good to others all of that together is either the maximum possible human happiness so they define maximum possible human happiness one and then he says there's more happiness possible really and then they go on stage after stage to define levels of happiness for various kinds of beings in various heavens they get more happiness than human beings even the maximum human happiness is paltry compared to the happiness you get in various heavens and they work your way up this divine you know jacob's ladder do you climb your way up to the highest heaven the world brahmaloka where brahma you know um which is the cosmic mind hiranyakarwa has the maximum happiness maximum means in what sense the maximum attainable conceivable happiness in this universe how much is that i calculated that is 10 to the power 20 times the happiness of the maximum human happiness take the maximum human happiness is one and then add 20 zeros after that that much more happiness you get when you are brahma and in between there are enormous ranges of happiness having said all this this magnificent kind of you know um science fiction even science fiction can't wrap its heads around such an enormous conception of uh happiness or enormous basically having said this the titanium nation goes on to say what is you one human happiness and what is this huge 10 to the power 20 extraordinary happiness in brahmaloka the highest heaven it is 1 and the same 1 is equal to 10 to the power 20. how's that possible that's just wrong no you know it's like it is you the sachidan and the being reflected in various gross subtle causal bodies various kinds of bodies you get different kinds of happiness you are there and you have these multiple mirrors surrounding you you know like a pool of water maybe and then there is a steel plate and a dirty glass mirror and a clean glass mirror maybe a platinum mirror and when you look around you get better and better reflections yeah the maybe a dirty pool of water will give you a vague outline of your face like a caricature almost a convex mirror a concave mirror will give you twisted reflections of your face but as you work your way up to finer and finer mirrors when you come to say a polished platinum mirror or something like that it gives you a really great reflection of your face but if you say what is there in the dirty pool of water and in this expensive platinum mirror is one how it's you then let me see the original i me the great you can't if you want to see yourself see yourself means what experience yourself means what you are objectifying yourself to objectify yourself you need you need medium what is the medium to objectify yourself how can the absolute reality brahman how can you objectify yourself how can you experience yourself as something out there you need causal subtle and physical bodies and the various kinds of causal subtle physical bodies will give you different readings of your reality but you are the infinite reality so what is here is there what is there is here it is one and the same what is in the worm so i'm vivekananda says the worm is the is the cousin to the nazarene who is the highest conception of a per being you can think of maximum glory purity love this is someone like jesus christ and the lowest most humble kind of creature verb he says the worm is veritably the cousin to the nazarene why because beyond both our one existence consciousness place when swami vivekananda says the um i am the ocean of which buddhas and christs are waves what does it mean does he mean vivekananda is the ocean of which buddhas and christ surveys no not at all he means that which is uh here is there also and it is one sachidan and the i am sachin i am the absolute but in that sense we can all say that don't say it out out loud i am the ocean of which buddhas and christ surveys vivekanandas and ramakrishnans are waves people will think you're crazy but it is true it is true this is what the radical statement that yama makes to the little boy nachiketa what you see in yourself little boy and what you see in me a great glorious god of death extraordinary power of life and death over the universe what what you are what i am we are one reality what is that with is nashiketa says so i am not nachiket i am actually you the lord of death no so you are me nothing no neither is the ultimate truth nor yama the lord of death is the ultimate truth brahman is the ultimate truth neither the disciple is the ultimate truth nor the guru is the ultimate truth brahman is the ultimate truth but nachiketa and yama both are brahman guru and disciple both are brahmana i think i'm small and miserable that is great and glorious no it is one reality appearing as the small apparently small and miserable and as the great and glorious that's the meaning of that tao art and after this it will continue to appear like this you will still lead this life it is like an actor who plays one role as a beggar and another role as the emperor now that which is the emperor is the beggar that which is in the beggar is in the emperor how is because it's that one reality which appears as both both are not the ultimate truth there is an underlying ultimate truth there's a ground in which both become both meet and that's one reality so what is here is there what is there is here the meaning of the most wonderful mantra that's this meaning actually [Music] that ultimate reality satchidananda is purnam is infinite is whole this here which is appearing as this entire universe this cosmos is born of its perfect its whole from that absolute reality sachitan in the brahma this has appeared and in this if you re recognize that absolute reality then that absolute reality alone remains when you say from that absolute reality brahman the world has appeared i i'll we'll feel that oh so brahmana is there not there anymore i missed the bus before the world appeared i should have got hold of brahman too late now now it's a world naam server priyananda now all this miserable stuff is there what else can i do no vidhant is telling you upanishad is telling you yama is telling you that absolute reality is right here you have to recognize that absolute reality in the midst of this appearance you have to recognize the screen in the midst of various movies being played you have to recognize the ocean in the the water in the various waves that are appearing before you that is glorious this is small ignorance what appears as glorious i still see the glory of the glorious i still see the smallness of the small but i understand both are ultimately there's a deeper truth where both are one the story which i like about the businessman who had fallen on hard days and he goes to a pawn shop and he says here is my ganesha a golden image and i'm going to pawn it please give me some money i want a loan so the dweller he weighs the ganesha and says i'm going to give you a char i'm going to give you money at this rate now ganesha comes complete with a mouse so he weighs ganesha's mouse so the one asks so this is for ganesha how much will you give me for the mouse and the jeweler says the same it's um at the same rate and the man is outraged what ganesh ji kajo bhav jawakabe you're giving me money you're valuing ganesha and the mouse at the same rate have you no devotion man what kind of an atheist are you non-believer and the goldsmith says joeller he says well for you it is ganesha and it is a mouse for me it's just gold i'm sorry brother but it's just gold for me i have to wait that way when it comes to worshipping great i'll worship ganesha with the mantras of ganesha by the way in the worship of ganesha there's a worship of the mouse also but the mantras are different so ganesha will be worshipped in one one day my prayers will be to ganesha not to the mouse but but when it comes to weighing it and looking at the substance the reality behind it then it has to be the same rate because they are both gold this is what yama is telling that which is there in the ganesha that which is there in the mouse ganesh and mouse are one and the same it sounds outrageous bless famous but it's the truth with a particular name and a form and a particular usage it is ganesha the name is ganesha the farm is ganesha and you worship ganesha this way and another name mouse and a form of the mouse and a particular usage worship is this is the mouse but you understand both are the same if one does not recognize it then what will become prominent is the name and the form and the usage in sanskrit nama rupa java one definition of maya is nama rupa yavahara name form and use is maya even after you recognize the oneness of god and man of ganesha and mouse your behavior your activity will continue you will continue to deal with the world as it should be it will become easier in fact you'll deal with it but your inner eye will be different your eye of knowledge see with these eyes you will continue to see the differences but with your eye of knowledge you see one when it says when you see difference you go from death to death you to see oneness doesn't mean that after vedanta you open your eyes suddenly everything is a mass of light now you can't see people you can't see it's all hazy um you know vague no it doesn't mean that to be vedanti you must not see different so go around with closed eyes what's happening i'm not seeing any difference i read the swami told me the lord of death said you must not see difference the one who sees difference will go to um go from death to death it's worse than saying go to hell that's at least one destination but this is like so yama could have been kinder he could have said the birth and death you will go through many births and let's see but he's harsh he says you will go from death to death you lifetime after lifetime this suffering and suffering and suffering why if you see so simple if you see difference but the problem is the moment i open my eyes i see difference here there are 73 people here there are computers and books and tables and [Music] difference they're all different i'm seeing difference so this is ignorance these physical eyes will show you difference that's what they're meant for but the knowledge given by vedanta you'll give the eye of knowledge will open and you'll see by that eye of knowledge you see oneness even while the physical eyes are still seeing the difference that knowledge i of knowledge is opened by vedanta and that then you see oneness otherwise what happens is that story of the jeweler's son the goldsmith's son so the goldsmith told his son uh hey boy go back to the house and open the vault get some gold from there and the boy runs away and then he comes back and says dad there's no gold the goldsmith is shocked i saw there was gold this morning what do you mean did you look yes i look there's no gold atop so he goes there and opens the wall and he says there's gold here look the necklaces the bracelets the boy says but that's a necklace that's a bracelet where is gold you taught me this is called a necklace this is called a bracelet this is called a ring this is called a tiana where is the gold so he is seeing that but he's not seeing the father sees exactly what the son is seeing but the father has the eye of knowledge in the all the ornaments the eye of knowledge shows him one gold um you see ten thousand waves in the ocean with these eyes with the eye of knowledge you see one mass of water you see all the pottery and the vedantic rishis were big on pottery because those are things you found but with the eye of knowledge you say all of it is just clay similarly you see all people and the sky and the earth the sun and the moon and the mouse and of which there are many in new york so you see all of that with the eye of knowledge you know it is one consciousness one being appearing as many this is oneness this is being established in oneness and then he gives a warning what's the harm if i see different not only see difference with these eyes if i think no they are different what do you mean thinking they are different as we think now i am this person those are those persons some are good some are bad some fulfill my expectations some are against me and some are indifferent to me and i want these things in my life this is my personal history my strategies my suffering this is what if you think yeah that's what i think of myself you are in serious trouble yamaha says if you think that's the ultimate truth about you those are there but if that's you think that's what you really are with you submit to my that one goes from death to death why why just by seeing that i am brahmana die of knowledge i will not go from death to death and by seeing myself as a little person and go from death to that literally you are saying that if i see myself as a limited being why will i die a limited being is someone who's limited in time who is born and who dies you you are saying i am the one who dies why why will i suffer why will i be miserable if i am if i see myself if i see difference difference means you are cutting yourself from others and saying i am this much those are different then you are subject to ups and downs i am this little mind the mind will go through miseries and pleasures and pains and then you say it is i am miserable i am dissatisfied but if i see that as one constant mass of awareness being consciousness if i know that what you i am in depth i am that already then whatever happens at the level of body stula whatever happens at the level of uh mind sukshma and nothing happens at the level of the car on us sir the causal i am the same that much i know how do i know by the eye of knowledge not just because i've read it i'm it's clear to me whether a comedy is played or a tragedy is played on the cinema screen of life i know it's all right the physical eyes are showing disaster flood earthquake war it's terrible but your eye of knowledge is telling you this is a movie it's all right which is more powerful will you say no the movie that idea that's a that's philosophy that's theoretical and i'm actually seeing so much suffering how can you deny it no we don't do that the eye of knowledge is so powerful it overrides our physical eyes it tells tells me it's all right it's supposed to be like this it's a movie even when you get upset isn't it to enjoy a movie really you have to be able to to be miserable to be sad to laugh to be angry those are the emotions evoked if you don't react emotionally to a movie you are not having an aesthetic experience so you must be able to enjoy it even while in even while angry even while upset even while crying yeah you know it's all right literally like that in this world where five senses are pla playing for you the multi-sensory movie the eye of knowledge shows you the background only it's not a background out there it's you are the background you are it's called chit that part of the mirror of consciousness you are the consciousness of the screen on which this movie of life is being played out and the eye of knowledge tells you at that level it's fine at the level of the movie there are things to be done there are actions to be taken there are appropriate and inappropriate reactions all of that we must learn the underlying oneness shows you you are fine and he says goes from death to death the one in this world in this life who sees as if many emphasizing again even if though it looks like many brahman the one mass of existence consciousness place is still very much here that is what this is what we are experiencing sees sees the eye of knowledge i should read out to you the sanskrit original so stirring of shankara's commentary so shankara says this is one of his favorite verses mantras i will not explain the term party adjuncts basically surrounded by the upadhis of body care mind which appears as samsara dharma has the attributes of samsara born aging what is born an aging body miserable happy what is miserable and happy mind and i associated with all of this i seem to have it i am bored i age i'm going to die i am happy i am delighted and i am very satisfied next moment quite dissatisfied everything you see the madness of it what are you holding on to what's dragging you like a helpless you know puppet through ups and downs the mind we have surrounded ourselves with these uh things and we think i have got samsara dharma the characteristics of samsara who thinks like this those who do not have viveka discernment discernment between eternal non-eternal atma anatma self not self brahman appearance reality appearing those who don't discern those who don't have like the child who can't separate gold from the ornaments this very one right now you this very one right now is uh he says nitya vigna ghana eternal consciousness only consciousness is only vegan there is no space for anything one sadhu in uttarakhand university would say tasatas this entire universe is packed solid with brahman there is no space for a universe where is the space for a body for a mind for a thought for misery for happiness for individual concerns there's no space it's all packed why it here's the body it's all literally packed with existence consciousness place every particle of this universe radiates is shining with existence consciousness place for whom viveki the one who can discern for the person who can see the difference between ornament and gold person who understands the difference between movie screen and movie for that person every bit of that horror movie is full of it's scream but there's no horror at all but it's perfectly all right then he says so what happens is we look at the differences as i said at the physical level subtle level causal level only difference you see difference all around you look without that no point denies this difference without this difference movie is not possible if everybody in the movie looks alike what happened we are all brahmana you know it will be a most boring movie so everybody's everybody has the same lines to say everybody has the same action no they have as much difference as you like as much variety as you like as much ups and downs as you like as long as you know it's all right it's brahman so he says because of the varieties upadhi swabha veda because of the nature of these adjuncts bodies and minds and you know the physical and the subtle and the causal the varieties are presented by this but this is not a problem the variety can exist and if you know you it's a movie you can enjoy the movie because of the variety but the problem [Music] is deluded by ignorance if you remember vedanta sarah he said maya has two powers maya projects variety and then hides the underlying oneness samaya projecting variety is this the movie of the universe great is no problem actually the real problem is it hides the underlying unity it hides that brahman behind everything it hides brahman that you are it hides the absolute truth and that heising the absolute truth is not actually a fault of maya it's our ignorance and that can be removed by vedanta deluded by ignorance we think these are real um where there is no difference one existence consciousness one the absolute reality i am different and the ultimate reality is different from me this is what we feel this is seeing difference you should not see this now do not see c means again i have knowledge i physicalize you you're forced to see this what should you see what should be our understanding when we are experiencing life here he says [Music] so beautiful he says see this one uniform consciousness in misery in happiness in understanding in not understanding in the most brilliant professor in the most illiterate person in all of that one one consciousness see these differences you see if consciousness is the same how can there be high and low how can they have someone get a nobel prize and how can someone be you know an illiterate person uh drop out from a school illiterate person drop out from a school difference in mind subtle subtle body nobel prize winning brilliant it's a brilliant mind the book was their beautiful mind movie was their beautiful mind they got it right it's a beautiful mind but beyond that is even more beautiful consciousness which is the same everywhere how is it same akash has space everywhere this consciousness is like space it's called the space the sky of consciousness the sky of awareness above below to the side to the left and the right in the front and the back all around you inside you outside you there's one limitless sky of consciousness oh good what about me brahma hamasmithi i am that brahman then what is this body this mind this person this is like a pot in again a pot in the sky outside vast sky inside sky but inside and outside are the same limitless sky the part just seems to be an appearance and that also is nothing but an appearance in the sky you are the sky of consciousness a wave in the ocean outside the wave water inside the wave water in fact the boundary between the wave and everything else is also water limitless water you are that limitless ocean that water see this then you are at peace in the next mantra continues the same theme one more thing what is here is there also so what is in the brahmagyani enlightened guru the enlightened master and in me the unenlightened student is one and the same i remember one of my brother monks he told me the story about swami ranganathan and one of the great masters of our he was the 13th president of our order the great vedanta teacher so once this my friend he was a novice and swami ranganathananda who was the vice president of our order at that time this was in the late 90s or 2008 about 21 years ago was visiting the main monastery in belur and all the monks went to bow down to him he used to stay in the room next to the room where swami vivekananda lived 100 years ago so i still remember that room vividly and going to meet rangana tanji they are bowing down to him so my friend also went and when he went he was late everybody else had left so my friend went and um bowed down to him and swami ranganathan he was lying down he looked at him and he said um about brahman that our that's our real nature and my friend said to him but swami i really don't understand it when the swami he looked up at him straight into his eyes he says that does not matter what is here what i am that that you are too it is the same now it's just the repetition of this mantra here but my friend said when he looked at me with that force in his eyes and he said that emphatically something swept over me and my reaction was fear i became terribly scared i became scared my knees started trembling he said and i ran away from that room he said i can know the staircase down he said i ran away from that room and ran down the staircase and he says and he told me this years after swami ranganathan had passed it said perhaps i missed my chance i missed the bus he was trying to transmit something to me i said no it has been done he has told you the reality and it will work in your mind until it comes to fruition it's literally the mahabharata tattoo that's what he told you notice the radical nature of brahmasmi i am brahman you know it works both ways one way is who am i i am not body i am not mind i am not the intellect i am not the ego i am from so that's this way i am nothing but brahma nothing means not body mind these are appearances but i'm just brahman nothing else just brahman it works the other way around also what is brahman it is nothing but you there is you are nothing but brahman and there is no brahman but you which means vishnu devi god allah all of that ultimately is nothing but you in notice the very radical nature of the statement when it works both ways i am brahmana means i am nothing but brahman not body mind brahman is i it means there is no god there is no uh you know those things apart from the divinity apart from the real you so are you denying that there is no god no no no at the relative level universe god all of the you know causal level subtle level physical level there is god and cosmic mind all of that but at the deepest level your real nature you and god are one reality there's no god but you and you are nothing but god when you say no god but me ah so i always knew i saw a piano there was god no no no no you are not server you see you are god it means you are nothing but god you are not server piano you are god and god is nothing but you does not mean god is server priyanov god is nothing but god then the next one i think i'll leave it just read it and leave it because there's something new being said this lot of it is repetition of the tenth one but something new is being said [Music] this is to be attained through that through the mind indeed there is no diversity here whatsoever he who sees as though there is difference here goes from death to death so there is a basically same thing is repeating one goes from death to death who sees difference here who sees difference means thinks it's the difference he sees is real this is ultimate truth but the interesting thing here is this knowledge i am brahmana is to be attained to the mind only and so this throws up an interesting question we keep saying that it is beyond the mind and here it says how can you attain it through the mind not only that we say it cannot be thought of by the mind you say beyond mind beyond speech and here it says only by the way not only through the mind through the mind only it can be attained so what does it mean can it be attained to the mind is it attainable through mind are not attainable and these opposite statements are there upanishad open says it says that which the mind cannot conceive of but by which the mind conceives of everything and you know what is it it's consciousness if it's like a riddle mind cannot objectify consciousness but consciousness illuminates the mind consciousness is the witness of the mind because of the presence of the of consciousness you have experience of thinking understanding remembering that which the mind cannot objectify and that which illumines illumines the mind you know that as brahman but here it says just the opposite by the mind alone it is to be known there it says which cannot be thought of by the mind it says by only by the mind it can be thought of it can be known so what does it mean um there are three levels of understanding this multiple ways you can say the simplest most directing srirama krishna has said by and shankaracharya said by the mind alone means by the purified mind suramar krishna says the atman can be realized by the purified mind what do you mean by the purified mind by the purified mind means by the mind which has the four-fold qualifications uh clarity the discernment between eternal and non-eternal the dispassion for the non-eternal and then if you don't have dispassion for things in the world you can't be equal to them if you're not equal you will see difference you see again the problem will come so dispassion makes you equal to everything and then the dispassion then the sixth fold disciplines the six treasures you know them what they are and then the last one the intense desire for freedom so your your project now becomes um freedom from samsara uh so with these qualities the mind is purified the mind is not purified then it will not realize if the mind is purified it will be able to realize so that's one meaning by the mind alone by what kind of mind what kind of mind can profitably undertake vedantic inquiry a purified mind purified mind means what exactly it means these fourfold qualities to whatever extent then a deeper meaning would be okay so i'll just leave it at that the two more levels which becomes more and more progressively complex i'll take up later let me just look at the comments and questions today rick says is it correct to say that there are not different physical subtle and causal levels for individual cosmos but that one our individual experience of these levels is just a limited version of the cosmic experience of these levels due to the limitations of the human mind body system true but look at the question moment you say human mind body system there is a clear demarcation here is a human mind-body system so it feels like an individual and that's the purpose of the ego for example the purpose of the ego is to appropriate for itself the activities and resources of one body and make you feel like one one being in some mystical experiences one can expand beyond that and still feel your oneness with all so there seems to be many many units and beyond that there seems to be a an oceanic oneness but beyond that is brahman which is neither microcosm nor microcosm neither individual nor total it's like waves ocean water waves individual ocean turtle waves microcosm ocean macrocosm but water is not individual or total water is not microcosm or microcosm but both microcosm and microcosm waves and ocean depend on the water but the water doesn't depend on anything similarly there are individuals there's a totality you are one being jiva and paramatma is everything god is everything individual and cosmic but beyond individual and beyond cosmic is the absolute reality brahman which is your real nature nilavora says ordinarily the use of the work word vishwa implies physical world as opposed to the explanation of issue as associated with individual that is true but the word vishwa in vedic sense has many uses like vishway deva they're the deities rodrigo o my soul be prepared for the coming of the stranger be prepared for him who knows or to ask questions the rock by t.s eliot good good thank you for the reference nila says there's some concept of indra's net is what is meant by the same being reflected multiple levels that's a buddhist conception yes the net of indra isn't callousness a real danger in vedanta ignorance is really a sad thing it might be a source of all sadness yes if maya wails can it also reveal yes you're right gloria asks the maya whales can't also reveal it can reveal how does it reveal here it's revealing it now will be attending vedanta class yes so it is a very ancient idea of maya in sankhya philosophy maya is called prakriti and prakriti has does two things for us we are like the children who was taken care of by by the old mother that's actually an example used in a very ancient text called sankya karika prakriti is like an old mother who carries her babies across the the terrible desert of samsara the desert sands she picks up each one of us and carries us to safety which is liberation so she does two things she gives us bhoga which means experience experience of what pleasure and pain why because we want it and then she gives us upper work these are old very ancient terms for freedom upper worker what does that mean uh liberation from limited existence both are given by prakriti and that idea has been has come over to maya sram krishna put it this way vidyamaya and avidyama is ignorance but ignorance sounds like pretty academic you know like you're ignorant he makes it more vivid my um son or daughter my house my money my nephew that is ignorance and then what is knowledge that all are my children my gopala is indeed in everybody that is knowledge so vidyam that's also within maya you're still conceiving making a practice of it doing something that's vidyamaya the other one is avidyamaya avidya the maya of ignorance traps us further and further in samsara vidyamaya hold on to god see god everywhere that will free you from samsara eventually nilaji asks swamiji sorry to ask a very basic question basic question is most important and most difficult to answer also is our ignorance and maya are two different things our ignorance caused by my ah you see here why vedantasal is useful those who are attended with answer classes you would know the clear definitions of maya of ignorance so all our ignorance yours mind everybody's is a part of maya it's a power of maya and in fact it is constitutive of maya our causal bodies make up the totality which is called maya so our ignorances specifically are due to the power of maya called our shakti is the veiling power of maya rick says in mantra 11 is mind synonymous with subtle intellect yes of course here mind means everything mind intellect specifically intellect because the qatar panishad has already earlier said that the highest reality is seen by the purified and sharpened intellect that said then sangeet asks so what's that when put together ultimately an example that you are um god and you are not server priyananda while mind maya tends to make you believe the other way around true ignorance makes us think that i am only server but i am existence consciousness bliss now still server priyanka appears i am the actor and i have to play this role fine there's no problem there but if i'm trapped in the role and i do not know i'm an actor if i'm trapped in server playing i do not know that i am the infinite brahmana then problem arises because i see i am a limited being here is a limited being there is a glorious being that we are one and the same that does not seem clear to me shiva priya says brahmajyani sees no difference then brahma is beyond my don't say brahma there's a difference between brahma and brahman brahma is the highest deity a god but brahman is existence consciousness but just the atman itself beyond mind but realize it through mind when then brahma gyani reaches brahma not reaches realizes that i am brahman then stay with it or come back body and mind does not see the difference tell me now we have explained it enough when the actor realizes that i am an actor or actor knows i'm an actor does he stay with the character or come back he can play the character to the hilt can totally forget that i'm an actor and happily play the character you must forget that i'm an actor in order to play the role very correctly there's no problem once you realize that the necklace and the bracelet and the ring are all made of gold will they still remain as necklace bracelet or ring certainly what difference will there be or will the necklaces bracelets and ring all melt into one indistinguishable mass of gold no no need when you realize your grammar see you think that you are realizing brahman is like i'm attaining brahman do you come back but there's no going and coming back you have not gone anywhere you're right there if you realize suddenly that i am shiva priya i've realized now will you come back to this um will you come back anywhere go anywhere you've not gone anywhere where will you come back from okay then prabhupada you have raised your hand yes maharaj brahm i have a question this is also basic question and you may have answered it many times so we say that the dreams appear in the mind but for waking world we say that it appears in consciousness but dreams and mind both appear in consciousness waking world and mind both appear in consciousness dreams also appear in consciousness ultimately but we say we specifically we say that the waking world is appearing in unconsciousness a lot of your talks you say that could be appearing in consciousness you don't say so you want me to clarify yes please all right the waking world appears to the mind working through the sense organs contacting an external world that's our definition of aging isn't it i am this person through my eyes i see world outside through my ears i hear sounds smell taste touch and then with my mind i think about these things and this is what i considered my baking now in the dream what happens i forget all this because i fall asleep so my senses lose contact with the world outside i also forget that i'm sleeping only the mind is functional uh semi-functional and it generates dreams in the mind then we go into a deep sleep where there's no dream there is no sensory activity just a blank this is what we think of taking dreaming deep sleep now using these advaita vedanta wants to show all of these are appearances and disappearances in consciousness so when i say the waking world is appearing in consciousness what i mean first of all take up absolutely common sense view of the waking world here is a world which i am seeing hearing smelling tasting touching through sense organs and mind now this mind sense organ body world all are appearing in consciousness to explain that the dream example is used in the dream you seem to have a body you seem to have a word you seem to be seeing hearing smelling tasting but there is no word there it is an imagination there is no body there it's an imagination there's really no what do you mean by seeing using eyes but you're not using eyes there your eyes are physical eyes are closed here the whole thing is imagined in the mind just as the whole thing subject object individual and world are imagined in the dream by the mind they're nothing but the mind similarly it's not mind here in consciousness alone this entire world and the body and the mind and the senses and activities are imagined but what about the dream that is also in consciousness not only the waking is imagined in consciousness waker and the waker's world and the whole waking of a star is an appearance in consciousness the state of making state of making is two things you the waker and your world all of it is appearing in consciousness dream there's a dream state and in the dream state you have a person in the dream and a world in the dream and yes from the waker's perspective both are appearing in the mind of the dreamer but that mind also is appearing in consciousness and in deep sleep blank that blank is also appearing in consciousness and the cycle between blank and dream and waking and making and dream and blank waking dreaming deep sleep and all of it is the underlying one consciousness and whatever you experience in this these states there's nothing other than that one consciousness that one consciousness is turya somebody is asking is possible to get anubhuti of ishvara in advaita vedanta no because you the consciousness through the upadhi the adjuncts of maya becomes ishwara but you the consciousness through the upadhi the individual ignorance our causal body becomes the individual being now when you say is it possible to get the experience of ishwara what you mean is can i mr x or mrs y can i get the experience of god how god experiences him that's what you really mean no because i who is i in your can i experience is the i mr x or mrs y in that case you have already assumed individual body individual mind and individual causal body then you are an individual but beyond that you are pure consciousness but then the answer is yes you can experience they have the experience of ishwara oh how you are experiencing uh the experience of ish right now what is ishwara consciousness limited in one in in through maya experiencing the whole world that's what ishwar is doing and you are the consciousness there then actually your question is why don't i feel it but then again you have to ask who is this i who is asking the question it's already consciousness limited by one mind it wants to drag that experience to one mind and experience it in one mind that's what you're asking it's like asking so if the ocean is if the tsunami wave is water and i am water can i experience being a tsunami wave i'm a little baby and that's a snobby way can i experience being a tsunami vape nope but you said we are the same oh as water as water you are experiencing tsunami we've already you don't have to do anything you are not seeing yourself as water you're seeing yourself as a little wave and you want to be the big day there lies all problem there lies all problem all right so this is one answer but there's an in different answer given by kashmiri shaivism which would give you as honest straightforward yes vedanta gives you a slightly you know it asks like ramana marshy can i experience the ishwara's experience who is that i if you clarify that you will not ask this question but kashmiri shaivism says yes yes shiva is the ultimate reality of this universe and like ishvara creator preserve or destroyer of the universe and you can have experience of shiva it's called purna the cosmic eye so there there are practices and some of the highest levels of realization they say you can have an ishvara's experience so that's from the but that you notice is not a natural thing that requires sadhana and we'll get specific experiences of you know like standing on a mountain top and seeing everything all around but that's not the natural state of the individual jiva shiva priya but brahmayan is not getting into some other state it's just the knowledge not just the knowledge it is the knowledge most important compared to that knowledge you can say it's not just samadhi or just a theory of knowledge and acting accordingly but trying to implement it as president know the facts that i am brahmana no no no no no it's not a theory of knowledge it's not having read this i've heard it all yamaha has told me i've read it swami has given me the talk now i must try to behave like brahman that's a good practice but this is not what is meant realizing brahman there is a specific breakthrough a clarity which will come it is like waking up from a dream so in the dream if somebody tells me look this is a dream and i get a whole class on what a dream is now i know what is a dream i'm still dreaming so this is what is meant by waking no you haven't woken up yet you have heard all that then the example of seeing the needle i give the there's a needle on the mountain top you get a set of exp instructions to take you to the needle climb on this side of the mountain reach that huge boulder near that boulder you see the tree which looks so tiny from here that's a big tree on this side of the tree there'll be the main route and follow that route to the tip of the route on the right side of the route look carefully get down on your hands and knees look carefully you will see the shining needle now the last instruction is look carefully you will see the shining needle that's not enough after that you need to see with your own eyes the last instruction is you are brahman it is one reality don't see difference this is the last instruction like see the needle but you haven't seen it yet you have to still see it with your eyes that clarity must come it's a breakthrough it's not just i've understood it now you're supposed to live like that is that vedanta no no it's an important question that she has asked if you try to live like that it'll be a struggle and it's a good practice but that's not yet brahmagyani so they're very clear brahma gyani is not having read the vedanta books or heard the classes after reading hearing reflecting upon it staying with it it should become a clarity a living clarity for you then then you don't need the vedanta books after that all right very good oms [Music] namaste [Music] you