Video 26

26. Katha Upanishad | Mantra 2.1.3 | Swami Sarvapriyananda

[Music] chandi all right so we are studying the cut openishad and we have entered the second chapter the first section of the second chapter remember the structure of the text the two chapters and then each chapter has three sections we have entered the first section of the first one of the second chapter chapters are called and we read last time first of all we read that one great obstacle to spiritual life is this constantly flowing outwards that mantra was that the first mantra of this section parangi khan is as if there is a manufacturing defect in us we continuously easily tend to flow outwards into objects and it takes a special effort to stop that and turn inwards then the second mantra said that the difference between a spiritual seeker and the worldly person is the worldly person spends all time and energy and lifetimes chasing objects in the world and thus what's the problem with that they it falls into the widespread net of death the widespread net of death that means lifetime after lifetime the same repetitive patterns continue whereas the enlightened the spiritual seeker the term used always is dheera the word dheera is there in most indian languages generally means person of strong will a person who is patient strong steady here it's a like a dedicated spiritual seeker who is able to turn inwards having realized the self within attains immortality and does not want anything in this world anymore so the question is then how do we know that that brahman that atman that real self by knowing which one transcends worldliness one transcends this continuous cycle of birth and death so how do we do that now we come to the third and the fourth mantras the third and fourth mantras are very powerful they are we are the heart of um you know advaita vedanta show me that that the third question which had asked that reality which will take me beyond death the question about the self the eternal self atman that question is being answered it was answered earlier of course with the analogy of the chariot that was explained now it's being pointed out and here the pointing out these two mantras third and fourth are pointing out directly pointing to the real self we are expected to catch it so third and fourth mantras very direct language so the answer to the original question third question of nachiketa has been given here [Music] on [Music] this is the third mantra what does it mean i'm giving the translation from swami gambhira anandaji what remains here unknowable to this self through which very self people perceive color taste smell sound touch and sexual pleasure this indeed is that is that self which was asked for by najib so what he has said here is use shankara's commentary here by which because of which due to whose presence what is he talking about consciousness the cell we see we hear we smell we taste we touch all kinds of experiences in life are because of that and other than that there's nothing else everything is comprehended by that everything is revealed to that everything exists in that nothing is left over when you know that and that's you that's your real nature that is my innermost nature what is he saying here is um he's pointing to our real self and how is he pointing to a real self the question is how do i know the atman how do i realize that i am you know the chidan and the rupa hashem of the nature of shiva i am consciousness and bliss how do i know that the answer given by yama in this very direct pointing is he points to our experience which experience every experience all experiences that we are having every experience that we have waking dreaming deep sleep every and every experience what is going on there see it has been said that in every experience we are flowing outwards and here yama says instead of flowing outwards through every experience in every experience the self the atman is revealed to us but we don't see that why don't we see that because we are we are obsessed with we are flowing outwards to the contents of the experience in sanskrit vishaya so when uh i eat a cookie so i am absorbed in the taste of the cookie and i touch the texture of the cookie the tongue gets the flavor of the cookie the nose gets the smell the fragrance of the cookie and the mind thinks about it and says it's very nice and it was uh brings out memory and that it's like that cookie which i had at that time and so on so yeah all our senses and the mind is engaged with the object the cookie but the whole experience is being made possible because you are conscious you are aware it is that awareness which is making this experience possible we do not attend to that awareness we are attentive of the objects of awareness but not to the awareness itself and this mantra is pointing us back at awareness what is it saying it's saying that notice you are aware all the time when we as it said when you see something you're aware um let me make it even more detailed whatever we see is because of the eyes when you see a person it's because of the eyes you're able to see you see a movie or television program it's because of the eyes that you're able to see you see the sky is because of the eyes you see the earth because of the eyes see a human being see an animal or a plant because of the eyes read a book it's because of the eyes eyes are a constant in every thing that we see so the eyes are one and constant there because of that but the eyes are not a factor when you hear something that's because of the ears but one thing is common between all the things that you see and all the things that you hear that is awareness awareness is constant awareness is there in all the things because of that awareness we are able to have the experience of seeing various things you're able to have the experience of hearing various things as he says taste of various kinds all because of awareness every experience that we have sensory experience is all because of the presence of awareness is made possible by awareness the objects are different the senses are different the eyes are the sense of seeing ears of the sense of hearing tongue is the sense of taste but awareness is constant and the same it's the same awareness behind all of them not only that not only this sensory perceptions but also internal the mind what's the difference between internal and external external is my senses are in contact with something eyes are in contact with forms ears in contact with sound and so on um but the mind is not directly in contact with anything else the mind is um is entirely internal the mind can contact the external world only through the senses but otherwise the mind itself has memories has thoughts has feelings the mind itself has a sense of ego i'm using the word mind in a general sense for our internal experience mind is still has intellect which can comprehend which can understand but in all of these cases awareness is constant whether you are remembering something to in order to have the experience of remembering or not being able to remember in both cases awareness is what reveals memories or the absence of memories in order to feel something love hate disgust desire awareness has to be there without awareness none of these are possible restless mind awareness reveals it peaceful mind awareness reveals it so all our internal experiences the mental experiences also are due to awareness not only this waking dreaming and deep sleep awareness is constant in all of them now the point he's making here is awareness is distinct from all the objects of awareness the external world the eyes are distinct from the external world but the eyes also are distinct from the mind which is thinking about what it what what is seen through the eyes and the mind is distinct from consciousness which illumines the mind so consciousness is distinct from all its objects from the mind from the senses from the external world consciousness is distinct it's separate it's not one of those things everything is an object to consciousness but consciousness is not an object consciousness is constant everything else is changing it is due to consciousness that we have all the experiences which we call life without consciousness no kind of experience is possible it's only due to consciousness all those things are present then only consciousness then then we get these experiences but without consciousness no experience is possible consciousness is free of any modification any change so changes are in the world changes are there in the body the body is born it ages it sickens becomes healthy or sick and then it dies consciousness reveals all this and gives you various experiences of health of sickness of aging and even one day death but you that consciousness is constant consciousness doesn't get sick consciousness doesn't age consciousness doesn't die this whole idea of consciousness dying is we have made a huge assumption already the consciousness is generated by the body brain and nervous system so when brain and nervous system dies consciousness will die but then you have to prove that and that's very interesting that today that is the huge and the hot question in consciousness studies we are unable to prove how brain if at all brain generates consciousness and vedantist brain does not generate consciousness in fact the point that vedanta wants to make is that consciousness is not produced by the brain it is not part of the body mind what is part of the body brain nervous system liver kidneys heart hands and feet and tummy and head these are parts of the body external internal parts of the body what's part of the mind thoughts feelings emotions ideas memories ego these are all parts of the mind none of them is conscious by themselves and consciousness is none of these parts it reveals all of this and is is separate from all of them consciousness is not produced by the brain it is not part of the body mind system but it is manifest in the body mind system so our brain body senses are all human by consciousness and illumined by consciousness it reveals everything gives us all these experiences when the body will die when the body dies then consciousness no longer will be manifest in this body-mind system that means those who know the terminology of reflected consciousness the the mind will be unable to hold on to achieve so the brain will be unable to support the mind the brain which is in a dead body will die it will be unable to support the mind so the mind leaves this body that is the subtle body it leaves this body and goes to other worlds so without that awareness will not be manifest in the body but with the death of the body awareness is not dead consciousness is not dead consciousness continues just not manifest just like if you have a bulb and electricity is manifest as light there but if the bulb is fused and then light will not be there doesn't mean that electricity has gone up it's just that the bulb is unable to utilize that electricity to generate light similarly consciousness remains in unmanifest form everywhere but it's manifest in the living body and brain and where the mind is present in presence of the mind consciousness is manifest this consciousness does not have any problems um this consciousness does not have any problems physical problems at the level of the body mental problems emotional problems at the level of the mind the consciousness is a witness to all of them and ilu means all of that and gives us all those experiences problems physical problems illness experiences mental problems and like unhappiness depression and all of that those experiences are all possible because of the presence of consciousness consciousness is free of all of that so this is what he wants to point to and this consciousness is you at present we are not aware of that we think of ourselves as this bundle of body and mind this body i am this body and yes i admit that is the mind and if you force me to talk about consciousness awareness i will say yes in the mind some consciousness is there some awareness is there so body mind consciousness a bundle is what we are that's what we normally think without examination upon examination i realized my essential nature is awareness on that you have a layer of the mind on that you have a layer of the body and through the body mind layer i experience the world vedanta yama wants nachiketa to shift his identification from the naji keta body mind from the nachiketa personality to awareness from the perspective of awareness you see that you are ever free of the body mind the appearance and disappearance of the body mind the birth and death of the body mind appearances and disappearances in the mind thoughts and feelings these come and go consciousness is ever illumining them and giving us various experiences so if you look at the mantra itself by which by which means by which consciousness forms are seen rasam so he uses the word vijayanathi sees rasam is not that special preparation you know the hot spicy drink sarasam here is taste vijayanathi rasam vijayanathi experiences gandham fragrance vijayanathi experiences knows it experiences shabdon sound speech music vijayana the experiences sparshan touch all kinds of touch warmth pressure all of that whatever you get with the tactile sense experiences vijayanathi and maituna when two things come together there's an experience and directly it refers to sexual experience but all kinds of pairs subject object coming together so you the subject with the help of the eyes and you form a pair with form view the subject with the help of the tongue you form a pair with taste those are also all experiences of pears mitsuna but of course specifically it refers to sexual experience see all experience are possible because of that consciousness what remains um over everything is in this consciousness everything is experienced by this consciousness nothing else is there at all everything is exhausted when you talk about consciousness and its contents a question might be there is everything in consciousness there are so many things which are not in consciousness so right now um i mean suppose somebody says in a far away galaxy there might be a you know a planet there not only might be there are planets but we don't know anything about them all of us human beings have no idea about what is there in the planet how can you say it is in consciousness and how can you see it's completely outside our consciousness now here a crucial difference has to be understood between consciousness or awareness on one side and knowledge all things are in either known or unknown everything in this universe can be neatly divided into what you know or what we know and what we do not know individually and collectively why even go out to a far of planet right now what is behind me um you may be you are able to see i can't see so that is unknown to me but what vedanta wants to say is that there is a difference between knowledge and consciousness things may be in your knowledge or things may be outside your knowledge so with that which is in the knowledge is called known that which is outside your knowledge vast ocean of things which are outside your knowledge that is called unknown but both known and unknown are in your awareness see we are constantly aware of that there is so much outside that i don't know i only know little bit right now i am seeing hearing smelling tasting this much thinking about a few things that's the narrow band of my knowledge but i am aware outside the narrow band of my knowledge there is a vast world there in this room in this building outside the building in manhattan outside manhattan beyond the planet earth there is this vast unknown and that is present in my awareness as the vast unknown everything can be divided into the known and the unknown and and as the known and the unknown is a fact of our consciousness this is a subtle point not very difficult but we often don't um think about it that way we mix up awareness and knowledge awareness and knowledge are not the same awareness plus mind plus some instrument of knowledge like the eyes or the ears and then the object then it will give us knowledge see awareness plus mind awareness of consciousness plus mind plus the eyes plus a form then i have knowledge of some forms i am seeing awareness plus mind plus the ears plus some sound then i have knowledge of sound i am hearing awareness plus mind plus having read a book of science now i have knowledge of science so these are now coming into my zone of knowledge from where are they coming from the zone of ignorance or unknowing so knowing and unknowing however both are in awareness because that was unknown to me i was aware that there is something unknown to me now i'm aware that unknown thing is known to me but i it was known as the uh it was still in consciousness as the unknown to make it even more clear let me give you a powerful example in our dreams suppose you know in your dreams you meet a friend and so you're talking to this friend you are happy to see the friend in the dreams it is always presumed that there is a world outside in your dreams you never think oh it's a dream therefore only i am present and the present and the friend is present and this little room outside the room is blank nothing else is there no we automatically feel there is a world in that world there is this room and in this room my friend has come to meet me that's what we feel and that entire external world i'm able to see my friend and talk to my friend but that entire external world is remains as unknown to me yet when we wake up what happens we realize the whole thing was a dream and what we knew in that dream that room and that friend and the talking to the friend was known and the whole external world was unknown the whole thing as known and unknown was present in the dreamer's mind is that not so exactly like that advaita vedanta claims right now in you the awareness a tiny slice of this world is present as the known world which you are directly seeing hearing smelling tasting touching thinking about understanding remembering forgetting that's the known part but also in your awareness the rest of the world is present as unknown and but the whole when you talk about a world now let me put it this way when we talk about a world when we think about a world when we at all consider the world or universe it's only in awareness that we do so it's not it's impossible to step out of awareness so this is what he's saying what is left over and then he says eight advaita this is that this is what this is what you had asked for naji keta you had asked tell me about that which is beyond that the secret of death beyond the dharma and adharma so beyond cause and effect tell me that and he says this is that this is the self it is you it is your real nature and this has to be realized shankara here he raises a question in his commentary an important question um the questionnaires asks hey wait a minute stop they say here rain on your parade before you go so far why are you saying that there is something apart from body and mind which knows everything reveals everything illumines everything this consciousness awareness why not just say i this fellow this body mind i am the knower and these are the things which i know that's common sense what is he asking here body mind is the knower and it knows the external world and maybe the mind can know its own thoughts also that's it that's the common sense we are looking at why are you talking about some other thing called awareness consciousness now the question asked by the question is any very important question and the answer is stunning but coming from shankaracharya 1500 years ago 1400 years ago it is directly relevant today what was the question is it relevant to the age of ai and smart in the smart machines what is the question look i have this doubt it's not common sense in this world that beyond this body and mind there is some self some consciousness other than this you know not as you are saying not produced by the brain exists without the body and mind using the body and mind it is experiencing everything we don't normally think about it that way that's not procedural it's not well known it's not that's not a commonly accepted concept of course it's not a commonly accepted concept that otherwise you wouldn't need vedanta but he's suggesting a better alternative the question is isn't it rather shouldn't we say de haadi sangato aham vijanamiti loko abagachati i this combination this bundle of body and mind i know this body mind is the one which sees and hears and smells and tastes and touches it is this body mind which is thinking and desiring loving and hating this is this is this is common sense why think talk about anything else and shankara's answer here is stunning he says no objects this body bite is an object objects neither know themselves nor know anything else anything which is an object it cannot know itself and it cannot know anything else first of all it cannot know it said there is a well-known principle in philosophy it is the that reflexivity is not self reflexivity is not allowed that means um like water cannot wet itself um then a knife cannot cut itself you cannot stand on your own shoulders like that thing cannot operate on itself so an object cannot know itself directly and there is no object that knows other objects okay so what but this body is an object how can you say this body knows other bodies structure is even more blunt here body is an object and you're saying the body knows um forms and sounds and smells and touch yeah so what's wrong strong sound smell taste touch they're objects the body is also an object basically how what do we know about this this body we can see it we can touch it we can smell it we can taste it we can feel it so this body is also formed sound smell taste touch for us are you saying that forms sound smells and touches can see other forms can experience other forms sound smells and touches can one touch experience another touch can one seeing experience another scene no that's ridiculous if that were so then chakras are this crucial argument which holds much greater force today if that were so then let external forms sound smells and touches experience other forms sound smells and touches that doesn't happen what he means here is so vivid today today we actually have machines which uh have sensors which not only have sensors they have computers and um you know the computers with capacity for decision making with huge memories and so and so forth which can simulate our senses which can simulate our mind also such machines are available now in the airport there's a tap and i put my hand under the tap and water started flowing that's the simplest thing that means there is a sensor there is and the whole thing is understandable in terms of little bit of electronics and mechanics and plumbing there is no consciousness involved there anyway nobody would say that and exactly the same principle applies to the most sophisticated self-driving car google self-driving car exactly the same principle applies to the most sophisticated computers running ai programs at in no point nowhere is there any kind of awareness involved or consciousness involved yet without that awareness without that consciousness look at what they are doing i put my hand there and the tap is giving me water that you might say that's silly swami but if you look at some of the most dramatic things which are happening in silicon valley a car is driving just like you would drive your car who is there nobody computer is there computer is driving it it is it it can in us it has visual sensors just like our eyes it has uh auditory other there is radar there are other sensors which we don't have beyond our five senses it has a little bit of radar or infrared things like that it's there it's got multiple sensors it has got not only that that car has got extraordinary decision making pattern recognition capacities it has got huge amounts of memory which our ordinary poor human memory cannot match all of those things are there all the faculties which we were proud of as human beings you know only living beings human beings have minds but now computer has a mind so maybe in some senses more powerful than our minds not only these computers can make decisions they are also creative they are painting now they are writing short stories sometimes rubbish but they're writing and yet yet this is the crucial point at no point even the most sophisticated ai program is conscious nobody is claiming that in fact um the engineers who develop it they will say no there is no we have not written any program for consciousness it's nothing that we don't even understand what it is to be conscious so what i mean to say is all the faculties of body mind are being replicated by these machines and yet as the upanishad says they don't have you know with sensors also they don't have the experience the first person experience of seeing hearing smelling tasting touching none of that is present that is present only because of consciousness that consciousness being present all the experiences of life become available that consciousness being absent in those machines you can have all the activities going on but no experience at all if you ask what does it feel like to drive a car you will answer it feels like this it feels good i like driving a car if you ask the google car what does it feel like to drive a car nothing it will not know how to answer you because it has no feeling of driving a car there's nothing or nobody there to feel anything there so this is a crucial thing it shows that not only external things are objects but mind is also an object that is the argument which i'm trying to make um we what was the question the mind can see body mind can experience other things why are you saying consciousness is necessary now i'm showing you modern technology in silicon valley is showing you there are bodies like the body of the google car and there is a mind of a certain kind which is the um the computer computational capacity of the the machines the processors involved there in the programming there and yet without consciousness there is no experience at all all processes of sensors are going on without any first person experience without the technical term philosophers use is qualia first person subjective experiences nothing is present there so consciousness makes experience possible no consciousness no experience so the very feeling of life itself not possible without consciousness this is shankaracharya's very very powerful answer which becomes more relevant now they didn't have all those smart machines at that time because then at that time they could argue that it is a special capacity of the mind you know the mind can think mind can remember mind can take decisions mind has memory and ordinary objects don't have these capacities therefore the mind is the knower now we can say here are objects here are machines with memory with decision taking capacity with sensors and yet they have no consciousness and they have no experience at all so without consciousness experience is not possible we must admit something beyond body mind makes experience possible you have duplicated artificial bodies and artificial minds no experience therefore having a body mind is not enough for experience that is the argument and it has more force today in the age of ai and robots and all that shankaracharya is give us gives a short reply if this conglomeration of body and mind is able to generate experiences of smell taste sight touch and all that in that case let external objects external um objects also let them experience other external objects or and or experience themselves not possible and now we know we have all these sophisticated machines still they have no experience external objects do not experience anything they do not expect anything else and they do not experience themselves also we consciousness we are able to experience ourselves and everything else and by saying see external objects are objects body is an object what do i mean by that external objects can be seen smell tasted touched body also can be seen smelled tasted touched or not external objects um can be thought about spoken about the body can be thought about and spoken about body is an object it is common to all external objects similarly the mind the mind is also an object you can't smell it taste it touch it but you can experience it as an object it's an object to your consciousness just as the external world is an object to your consciousness second world is made of the five elements space air fire water earth or periodic table whatever is also made of the five elements it's also object mind according to vedanta sankhya is made up of the five elements i will not go into the details of this in vedanta sara we have studied how from the five elements first the subtle universe including the mind was produced and then the physical gross universe was produced so the mind is also made of the five elements it's an object another thing is the changeability every object in the world changes body also changes and mind also changes so in common with the world body mind display all the characteristics of being objects what are the objects to you the consciousness one point he makes here is that um is that this um you as the consciousness um you are the basis of the universe when i say the everything is an object to consciousness we must not have the false impression that objects are outside consciousness is here you know when you use light and object analogy so here is a book and here is light light is falling on the book and illumining it but if you use this example if this example is used in vedanta but it can be misleading because the book is different and the light is different the light is illumining the book but the book can exist without the lattice which of the light book will continue to exist it is not dependent on the light for its own existence it depends on life for its revelation but here what he wants to say is everything is revealed by consciousness it appears to consciousness in consciousness as nothing but consciousness exactly like the best way to understand it is dream everything that you see in the dream appears to you the dreamer in you the dreamer and it is nothing other than you you the dreamer whatever you see in your dream whoever you see in your dream whatever happens in the dream is nothing but you you are appearing you mean the dreamer's mind is appearing in those forms exactly like that in waking in dreaming deep sleep whatever happens and comes and goes is in consciousness it's not apart from consciousness if it were apart from consciousness it would not be non-dual you would have consciousness plus billions of other external things but here is non-dual consciousness alone appearing as all of this see in your dreams your mind is non-dual in what sense because whatever is the content of your dream is not a second reality apart to from external to your mind when you count in your dreams the dreamer's mind then everything else is counted in that because everything appeared and disappeared in that similarly when vedanta is talking about consciousness it is that underlying reality of this entire display of the universe also that it is problem free it does not age world body ages it does not get sick the body can get sick it does consciousness does not die the body can die there are miseries in the drama of the world the consciousness reveals that but it is free of the miseries itself just like the movie screen is free of all the tragic tragedies in the tragic movies which are shown it's free of all the horrors in the horror movie which is shown nothing touches the screen free of all the disasters similarly awareness is new consciousness are free of all the troubles um what about me but then what about the world i am free but it's very selfish world is suffering but the world is nothing other than consciousness you see at a deep level it is all right at a transactional level of course you can help people but at the deep level the one consciousness is perfect and other than that nothing else exists so in that sense it is all right um so realizing this one goes beyond sorrow and one does not want anything more think about it wants are there only when i am a limited creature in a vast universe then only one is that i am a subject here is the object and i want something from this objective world i want wealth i want health i want praise from people i want fulfillment from this world then only the subject will feel fulfilled but when both subject and object are appearing in one underlying reality that underlying reality has no expectations from that just as um you really after waking up when you consider what happened in your dream you have no expectations of any kind of fulfillment from the dream you have no terror from anything in the dream after you wake up and you have no desire of any fulfillment from the dream also you know there's nothing that the dream can give you which is which you are not already nothing that the dream can ever take away from you whatever it takes up is still within you so nothing is lost in a dream nothing is gained in a dream similarly external world cannot supply anything to you because it's not external it's just an appearance in you you are the unlimited because you are vast and unlimited there is there is no problem whatsoever and no lack of fulfillment whatsoever from that perspective all right um this is pretty direct because we are experiencing it all the time and because it's direct um a warning is necessary swami bhutesha and jimaraj in his commentary on the um upanishads katopania in this verse in this mantra he delivers a warning warning is this that yes it's very direct this awareness which you are feeling now this in its really in its essential nature is brahman is god is the ultimate reality you are that already and everything is perfect already but here's a warning it says i'll read a little bit of the bengali original it will help me to translate and of course those who understand bengali can understand he says the this consciousness is not an object it's ever available as you the subject also consciousness is the only thing that's beyond doubt even to doubt this would require consciousness so it is indebtable constantly aware constantly available always shining always perfect and it is you but here's the catch he warns us in the first chapter it was said that um just by this teaching nobody comes to enlightenment unless one refrains from immoral action from bad character avira means immoral or uh bad character avid stopping pulling out of that first good character then focus serenity of mind calmness of mind rising above above worldly desires and worldly pursuits so two levels one is dharma which pulls us out of adharma and then above that is vairagya dispassion which pulls us out of worldly dharma also so there may be things which pull us in the world sensory pleasures and if i overstep the bounds of decency of morality of law even in that case that is adharma and that kind of person he says even by this teaching even by this direct teaching it will not work one will not become enlightened either one will not be attracted to this teaching or one will be attracted but will not understand this teaching or will be attracted and you understand it but still you'll feel i've just learned a nice philosophy it still will not take it will it will not become it will not come alive not only one must rise above immorality not only one must rise above common worldliness also moral wilderness so decency one can be dharmic and worldly so what is dharmic and worldly that i will not do anything indecent i will not do anything immoral i will not do anything or illegal but what i will do is within the limits of morality decency and law i will pursue my pursuits of pleasure and power and ambition and you know wealth and all of that and that's all right that's what how the world functions and without that the world will not function but a spiritual seeker must rise above that also so there's a difference between a conventional moral religion and spirituality but spirituality is not lower than conventional morality it actually demands a higher standard of morality and then only the higher focus focus is possible after that this teaching will take uh take hold he says here take a bite the one was not desisted from immoral conduct was not controlled the senses was not focused the mind and is not um cleansed oneself of the the the thirst for sense pleasures such a person will not benefit from this teaching will not get enlightenment through this teaching [Music] the first principle the first step is is good conduct it's good character and discipline of the senses and control of the mind focus of the mind she then he says but the practices which will lead me to enlightenment they are difficult and unglamorous therefore i don't do them this is the condition i mean this is the state of um of many seekers cable shaped that knowledge has not arisen so i have some knowledge i have attended the classes i do know certain things but it is not that grade of knowledge which will remove ignorance about the cell that ignorance which ties me to body mind that will not go away i'll still continue to behave feel and suffer as the body mind in spite of listening to all this sri ramakrishna is to say i am brahman you know teaching of advaita that it is it is not good to say this and then um why is he telling us to not say the truth it's the truth i am rahman this is what upanishad has taught us why is he cautioning us against so that we don't fall into the pit of hypocrisy that without coming to the first principles of spiritual practice without attending to our own spiritual practice our own purification we we delude ourselves and others with a lot of clever talk so that is that's why salaam krishna is cautioning us because this is the truth nobody denies this this from advertising perspective what has just been said by yama is the direct truth you are brahman right now unconditionally so but atheista this is the final truth but it's no good trying to make ultimate things the first thing begin from the ultimate things yes certainly we will study all this and know all this but always keep in mind what the text itself has warned us about all this long preparation which took place to come to this truth you know yama tells nachiketa the importance of renunciation tests again and again tells him the pleasant and the good continuously are coming to you the one who has the power to select the good and reject the pleasant that one alone becomes enlightened it is like walking on the razor's edge and so on we must keep those in mind because this truth is so direct and fascinating we tend to sort of you know ignore the initial warnings but the initial warnings have to be taken initial practices have to be taken seriously so nowadays those who have not desisted from evil conduct etc that that mantra which was which came earlier as important as thinking about i am realizing i am this pure consciousness is also take that seriously too otherwise we end up cheating ourselves and others why is it cheating because it won't work if the whole goal was to take us beyond suffering to attain blessedness and peace well i'm not going beyond suffering i'm not attending the sickness and peace if i skip the initial stages the unglamorous stages of the hard stages of leading a consistently moral life okay that was the rather required but maybe unwelcome warning now okay let me just look at the comments because the next one is also a very powerful pointing this pointing by the way this pointing is nothing other than what later becomes the vega the distinction between the seer and the scene and the whole texts have been written about this but the sources of such methods are from these mantras of the upanishads the distinction between the seer and the scene the ultimate seer is always consciousness it never becomes an object of seeing everything else is an object to consciousness and all objects are within consciousness they are not second realities apart from consciousness all right so that was the teaching and the warning let me look at the comments patrick says as you discuss awareness it is clear that's fundamentally required for everything what is the breakthrough that makes this the ultimate the breakthrough is realizing i am that first of all realizing this is awareness you are you are in your understanding isolating awareness from everything else awareness from its objects you see normally we are engrossed with the objects now we're stepping back from the objects turning around looking at the light which is illuminating the objects so first recognize awareness and understand it for what it is next the shift the breakthrough i am awareness not that i have to become awareness not that i am a bundle of awareness mind and body no i am awareness that awareness which makes everything possible should become an obvious fact it is an obvious it is a fact already not an obvious fact at all upanishad is trying to make it an obvious fact for us once that shift happens then you begin to see from that perspective there is no problem at all you say no but i understand there is this awareness what you are talking about is true it has no problems but i have lots of problems but you are that awareness if you are that awareness what problem have you what problem does the dreamer actually have in the midst of a dream even the worst nightmare none at all neela's nila bora says does the consciousness travel with the subtle body yes and no reflected consciousness travels with the subtle body pure consciousness is always there it has no traveling no coming and going see coming and going is a sign of an object as telling you the difference between consciousness and all objects body mind they share the nature of objects one of the i told you what are the nature of objects all objects are um they are the you know you know them through the senses for example body and no is known through the senses all objects are made of the five elements body is also made of the five elements so is the mind all objects have the nature of coming and going body and mind also have the nature of coming and going but consciousness does not come and go reflected consciousness however does come and go every day when we fall asleep when the mind shuts down the reflected consciousness disappears that's why we feel unconscious when we wake up we think there's nothing in deep sleep because our only idea of consciousness is the reflected consciousness it's like i've forgotten that this is a real face i'm just looking at the mirror and thinking that's that's the face that's my face and if somebody takes the mirror away well my face is gone no it isn't but the reflection is gone and the reflected face can travel you move the mirror around reflected face will move around um it's like the example i gave of the sun shining in the sky and there are many pots with water in them so the pots are there there's water in each of the pots and each of the pots with water there is a little tiny reflected sun now the part is the body the water is the mind the reflected sun tiny reflected sun is the reflected consciousness pots are many bodies are many the water in each of these parts is many in some part the water may be cloudy some part the water may be dirty in another part the water may be pure similarly minds are many some are polluted some are restless some are clear some are calm and the reflected suns are also many reflected consciousnesses are also many but pure consciousness the sun the one original sun is is one and the same and it is the source of all the light it's that pure consciousness the sun is not at all the part it's not even the water and it's not even that reflected sun there now uh when you move the pot around the water will move with it and the reflected sun also will move with it but the original sun does not move with it when the pot is cracked the gardener may come god may come and pour out the water into a new pot so that water will travel from this part to a new pot and the reflected sun will travel with it similarly after death the subtle body leaves this broken part the dead body and goes to a new body and the reflected consciousness travels with it and if somebody has near-death experiences or out-of-body experience will say i left the body i was witnessing my own body i went through a tunnel of light i had different experience that is the subtle body traveling and the reflected consciousness having all those experiences but the vast field of awareness in which all this is happening that does not travel it does not come or go agapay that is the word in sanskrit for coming and going coming and going objects coming and going body coming and going mind including ego coming and going consciousness reflected consciousness but atman brahman no no coming and going it reveals and it makes possible all these comings and goings ashok says our consciousness awareness same or different i'm using it indifferently the same meaning um use it in two terms two ways one is the common sense in which we use the word consciousness or awareness in english i am conscious i am conscious of something i take a cup of coffee and become more conscious see there's another thing i forgot to tell you there's no more conscious or less conscious when you feel more alert that's the mind becoming more alert a cup of coffee will do that to you a good night's rest will do that to you but if you feel less conscious heavy and dull and sleepy that's the mind consciousness in the advaithic sense what what yama is talking about is illumining the dull mind is illumining the sharp mind the alert mind both ways so i'm using consciousness awareness in the same way that's why some confusion can be created um especially i've seen when you read that book i uh i am that mr maharaja so there are a distinction is made between consciousness and awareness he'll say things like with the death of the body consciousness will disappear you see what happened all vedanta seems to say that consciousness exists even after death of the body but then you read one sentence more and he says awareness is always there what he means is is just using the words in two different senses remember he spoke in marathi then it was translated into english so these terms are different prabhu vasu consciousness cannot make a stone think or see human body including mind is also matter what is special about bodies of sentient beings bodies of sentient beings are sentient you say yes yes but what does it mean how do they become sentient because of the presence of subtle bodies subtle bodies though made of matter have the capacity to reflect channelize utilize consciousness so do you have a reflected consciousness minds become illumined by consciousness an illumined mind can further illumine senses an illumined mind and senses can give you first person experiences you're called sentient the physical body will also be illumined by the presence of the human mind and senses but when the physical body dies it can no longer hold on to the mind and so that illumination is lost there won't be any more experience there that's the difference between say a stone or a rock or even the most sophisticated machine a robot or a computer it somehow it does not have that subtle body so it's not a sentient being and somebody might ask and there's this discussion that if you can you construct a subtle body the subtle body is also made of matter so in principle it should be possible to construct a subtle body if you can if you could construct a subtle body you would have a sentient being immediately rodrigo says is it correct to say that in this planet humans are the instruments most capable of express consciousness and self realize also the summit of that expression yes more or less though in the hindu buddhist jaina cosmology there are beings with more developed bodies and therefore more capable minds also the subtle body has many more powers in those more developed bodies so they might be even more powerful expressing more of the glories of consciousness than human beings so in that sense human beings would not be the pinnacle however leaving aside all such speculations as far as we can see and throughout human experience what we have seen human beings are the most capable of experiencing or uh manifesting consciousness in the human mind and among human beings it is the spiritually enlightened ones who have manifested it to the greatest possible degree rick says that it's understandable understood that objects can't see other objects because they are not conscious only consciousness can do that how does it know itself it's not an object can't step apart from itself to observe itself yes so as i said um things cannot operate on themselves so consciousness also should not be able to operate on itself should not be able to reveal itself and it does not when you say consciousness knows itself or reveals itself it's not in the sense of operating on itself if it could operate on itself it would become an object to itself but consciousness is never an object to itself the way consciousness knows other things what does it know actually it knows only one thing consciousness knows the mind the first thing that is revealed to consciousness is the mind and the mind now illumined by the presence of consciousness the reflected consciousness can now know the body and the senses and through the body and the senses know an external world however consciousness itself is what is called self-luminous in sanskrit the word is swap prakasha it's not self-objectifying it can't objectify itself so the rule in philosophy that things are cannot be reflexive that is not violated but self-luminosity subprakasha is different from objectifying one itself so consciousness does not know itself as an as its own object but it's like one example is light so light when you light this when switch on a light it reveals everything in the dark room everything is illumined immediately and the light itself is also illuminated by itself it's not object it's not objectifying itself so there's a subtle distinction you can define illumination as revealing something which was in darkness something was in darkness light came revealed it illumined it now the light was never in darkness as long as the light is there it is always shining there is no question of darkness in light so it is not illumining itself it's not um you know removing itself from darkness and showing itself no it's it's very nature is luminosity um yeah that's all that can be said that is the uniqueness but nothing else in the world has it actually even this physical light does not have luminosity because without your eyes physical light will not be revealed and if the mind is not connected to the eyes then again the light will not be revealed and if consciousness is not illuminating the mind then even this physical light will not be revealed that's why consciousness is called light of lights jyotira jyoti it is the light of all lights it reveals all but my unstraight answer to your question is this is the unique nature of consciousness not that it reveals itself but it is uh luminous it's self-luminous swap precaution if it revealed itself you would not need mind uh instagram uh you know senses or anything like that to know that i am consciousness you could operate consciousness on consciousness no consciousness is shining forth and by its very shining nature reveals everything and thereby reveals its own self-luminous nature at this point a question could be a good question could be that oh so the consciousness is dependent on the mind for revealing itself because it's only through the mind that the consciousness realizes i am consciousness i am utman or brahman yes and no because the mind is nothing different from consciousness it's not that there's a second entity upon which consciousness depends the mind itself is an appearance in consciousness if we were sankhya followers of sankhya then yes consciousness would depend on nature material nature for its own self-revelation rodrigo says could it be possible in the future that the subtle body could interface with a sophisticated human-like machine why not the human body is a machine and more and more we are becoming a little machine machine like we have got so many artificial pla implants and all which are being put in the physical body that the ship of theseus that uh analogy is there you know a ship thesis cell sailed in a ship and as the parts became old he had to replace the different parts of the ship until years later none of the original parts was there so is it the same ship or not similarly our bodies we keep on replacing parts heart and liver and bones and you know joints so maybe with sophisticated development medical technology we might replace the brain also the spine and the nervous system everything so is it the same body anymore but if the subtle body is there you are the same person bindu says what did nisargadatta maharaj mean when he said to worship consciousness all the time how can that be translated in terms of consciousness we talk about yes in order to worship consciousness you need to have a representation of it like the god of religion so shiva vishnu devi these are all technologies to to represent consciousness to itself then you can worship i wish it says questions about smart machines and consciousness since science has no definition of consciousness hence no means to detect measure it engineers cannot determine whether smart objects are created are conscious so we cannot take their word for it maybe we also don't have the sensitivity to predict consciousness in machines is there some argument to rule out consciousness machines with certainty no you cannot if you can rule out um subtle bodies then there is no reflected consciousness there otherwise just consciousness itself you can't rule it out anywhere because it's there everywhere consciousness pervades everything every in fact pervades means everything is in consciousness in that sense consciousness is everywhere so if you're saying is reflected consciousness there in machines which would make it sentient that depends on subtle bodies and subtle bodies um we can stay with some certainty because subtle bodies are objective things and the engineers have not so far claimed to make a subtle body shilpa tulsida says in the deep sleep both the mind and intellect are shut down correct in the dream mind is evict no intellect is expressed um um well the way it is said in brig rishya viveka for example in waking this internal organ mind functions fully in dream it is partly functional in deep sleep it is not functional the mind is not functioning including the intellect so is it when both mind intellect merge into stillness where both feels one or blank with only awareness of blankness a clue towards self-realization consciousness to drop that blankness is hard even though i say it needs to be done basically everything in this world oscillates wave like sound or light or matter when waves cease to be is that intense awareness or just consciousness or awareness i just answered one of this if you can quieten the mind down to deep serenity and quietness then the question needs to be that deep serenity and quietness is experienced by what so experienced by you the awareness you can never objectify awareness anymore so that quietening the mind down to absolute calmness that is a yogic method rick says what you are saying about proclaiming i am raman et cetera is what new advaitan say you are already enlightened there is no personal self etc they mistake those concepts for realization so this is a warning to the new advaithans who also who make two mistakes sometimes not all of them but two mistakes one is at the upper end of the spectrum where they're talking about the final concepts of brahman awareness realization enlightenment and say it's all done you are that already finished that's not so fast and another very common mistake is to completely ignore the warning that brutish angie gave initial stages of moral practice and discipline so those if one ignores one does it only at one's own parallel either there will be no progress or they'll be very slippery kind of progress one can cause a lot of damage to oneself and others it's much better to be careful and conservative about spirituality and enlightenment take it slow you have all the time in the world and don't be quick to claim enlightenment it's much better to be enlightened and not claimed to be enlightened than to be not enlightened and claimed to be enlightened much better for oneself if one is being selfish in an enlightened selfishness one should take care of oneself first and taking care of oneself would mean progress carefully step carefully after all it's the razor's edge reflect and notice the upanishad upanishad says you are brahman already that's always done and accomplished but it will never say you are already enlightened that is manifestly wrong if you're already enlightened you wouldn't need anything at all but we do need we have the feeling of needing help and uh you know we need spiritual progress so we are not enlightened though we are drunk we need to be enlightened about that shiva priya says reflected consciousness along with the mind takes another body after death depending on the mind's desire not on the mind and not it's not a conscious decision it is desire plus past karma mukti means mind is desireless and stops taking up the next body yes that's the story we are given really in advaita vedanta mukti means you are your very nature pure consciousness is the very nature of pure consciousness is freedom last one is the hard problem consciousness really a heart problem of reflected consciousness think about that yes from an advaithic perspective that would be a hard problem of reflected consciousness i guess yes that's a good good subject for a paper but one last comment about freedom about mukti or freedom and then we will start in one sense all of spiritual practice is giving us freedom a taste of our our own freedom moral life very beginning the beginning of itself the beginning of spiritual practice moral life i do not tell lies i will be self-controlled i do not hurt others so all of this is freeing us from the great burden of um of guilt of anxiety this you know it is a good alaka but what you call it a light conscience which gives you a deep good night's sleep your conscience is light external things also it is things like giving when you are giving your own um accumulated wealth or giving um your property then um you are freed from the burden of possession see when you have i think possession is great but when you're holding on to positions we are trapped positions are holding on to us monks for example experience an immediate release by letting go of all things externally just external positions house property it's a great freedom when moral practice gives us a great freedom from the burden of of guilt and anxiety and negativity then devotional practice my thoughts my love my emotions are all centered around the god of love devotion that frees it from worldliness let's say another even deeper much more huge freedom you're set free from a lot of nonsense then you go even further yogic practice patanjali yoga sit down and shut down even good thoughts even divine thoughts divine emotions shut it down step away from the mind and that's the freedom from the mind itself that's an even deeper freedom unthinkable likeness and freedom and finally what advaita vedant is talking about our own real nature pure consciousness that's freedom itself it's always been free just like the movie screen is completely free of whatever movie is being played so this is a journey which progressively reveals our own innate freedom ok on that beautiful note let's end today krishna too [Music]