Video 56

The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna read by Swami Atmajnanananda (05/14/21)

foreign your words are like nectar bringing life to squirt souls they are praised by poets and removal sin they are auspicious to hear wonderful and exalted those who spread these words throughout the world are truly giving souls welcome to our class on the gospel of srama krishna we are on chapter 10 the master with the brahma devotees it's april 22nd 1883 and we're on page 218. and srirama krishna is talking to one of the preachers of the brahma-samaj the nature of brahmin cannot be described about it one remains silent who can explain the infinite in words however high a bird may soar there are regions higher still what do you say preacher yes sir it is so stated in the vedanta philosophy master once a salt doll went to the ocean to measure its depth but it could not come back to give a report according to one school of thought sages like shukadeva saw and touched the ocean of brahman but did not plunge into it this is a very uh interesting idea that we find many many places in the gospel of srimad krishna i take this salt dal illustration to have two different meanings and used in two different contexts sometimes sriracha krishna seems to be saying that an ordinary person anyone other than uh avatar or ishwar koti and what he calls it jivakoti he has takwa has this division that those who are born with some special mission those who are already perfect they they're they're born only for the welfare of others represent one very very small class of people who've come come at a certain time usually accompanying the avatar and everyone else is a jivacoti so sometimes he'll explain that if the jivakoti which will be i don't like to say ordinary person because they're extraordinary if they can have this this realization but if they get to the very bottom of the ocean or as he says the sugar devasant touched the ocean of brahma but not plunge into it so either they plunge into it or if we think it the other way they're just going deeper and deeper and they get to the very bottom of it which means nirvikalpa samati that if they if they get plunged merged in the highest state of nearby copa samanthi they'll be like the salt doll that stayed too long in the water and there's nothing to come back that they completely merge in the water and so then who was there to to come back into this physical body even now we may say that why are we trying to have this nervous samadhi if it means that we'll give up the body well there's again there are many many different ways of looking at this uh different different types of nirvikalpa samadhi doesn't sound right nirvikalpa samadhi means there's no vritti how can there be any any degree of lack of virtis but in in practicality it seems that uh there can be emerging into the nervous somatic state and coming back out of it without staying too long srama krishna says some people don't like to stay in that state too long he doesn't say ishwara koti's at that time other times they'll say some people can reach that state just like the mongoose can get to the top of the wall but the brick will pull it back down so uh what we're talking about here is those who fully merge in that nearby culpa state and if we if we want to tie this together with the theory of prarabdha karma that means that they until they've exhausted all of their old karma have no desires left whatsoever they won't be able to enter into that state and that would be the state where they would give up the body anyhow so we can look at it more not that they've entered into nirvikalpa samadhi and give up the body by it that this was would have been the time if they're passing any health this would have been this is how they're leaving the world and that state of near nirvikalpa samadhi one way to understand it there are many many different ways now the second thing when taco uses this example he's talking about even those who come back from samantha so try to imagine that this is all dal by the time it gets to the bottom it's no longer in that form anymore but israel surrounded christian could come back now if he could come back he should be able to tell us what it's like but somehow in his case that even even he doesn't have any individuality at that point like the salt doll that individ individuality comes back so that even srama krishna can come even though he can come back from that nearly called the samadhi state which he did on a daily basis he still couldn't give a report of what it was like at the bottom so it's used in two senses one and and this is the second sentence that seems to be here is that no one can say what roman is like even those who experience it and the other is that those who have that highest experience of nirvikale samadhi uh will give up the body thakura says in 21 days now that wasn't his he he heard that from one sadhu i don't remember it was invasion of childhood maybe somebody told them that taqwa heard lots of things that he didn't accept everything but if he heard something and found it to be true he he always gave credit there's an interesting thing when we go through he'll say that there's a sadhu from rishikesh or this i heard from this devotee or vaisnav chad and said this and now i understand it to be true so when he talks about sukadeva because people would say well shukur devi came back after having that highest realization so taka would say yeah some people say yes other people say no even if he had gone into that ocean of sachitananda he also would have merged in it so this is this is uh two optional points of view of the of the first one that either uh if if anybody gets merged too deeply in the irico samadhi they won't come back even the avatar because the uh talk were kept praying to the divine mother mother don't let me lose that individual he had to hear the divine mother save remained in bahamuka he had to get that horrible dysentery which put put so much pain in his physical body that the mind came down otherwise who knows if if he could have come down from that state because there's no one to do it the eye is gone that individuality is gone so this is a big question throughout the gospel who can actually become a vignani who can come back from reaching the roof that we simply get to the higher rung and look over and say aha can we get to the top and spend a little time sing a dance then come back down on the ladder uh if we stay too long do we jump over to the other side remember the four friends so i've always been intrigued by this question and when we go through we'll see that there are a lot of nuances to this and taco gives slightly different answers at different times and but we have to understand one thing does believe in jivan mukti that one can be a free soul and live in this world does that mean that we don't have to have nirvikalpa samadhi to get realization to become liberated souls again there are different different views he'll say that uh through the path of devotion also we can attain that that same height but does that mean that we go into nirvikalpa samadhi the path of devotion or lower types of samathi i like this idea that we don't have to have nirvikalpa samadhi to become illumined because this is what we find in uh the path of knowledge in the upanishad in viveka true domini that simply this flash comes of of awareness not in meditation not with the mind perfectly still and empty but the mind perfectly filled with this idea this floods the mind but i'm going to say this just to complicate things not not to clarify things i remember hearing a lecture about swami ishesh on the and he said there's no liberation without nirvikalpa samanthi so i'm also completely confused i can only assume that we can have this this near be called the samadhi experience but not stay in it too long something will have to bring the mind back down again maybe some karmas and some desire something like that in order for us to live in the world as as jivan mukta is or it may be that uh we can get this live in the world as a free soul through these other spiritual paths without the highest type of nerve culture samadhi or maybe there are levels of nirvikalpu samadhi who knows very hard to say there shouldn't be but i think that that we can we find taquer sometimes he went into a very deep state of samadhi what does that mean it made it a little harder for him to bring the mind back down again so theoretically there should be no distinction niriko samadhi is never called the samadhi but in practical life we see that sometimes taku went into a deeper state and sometimes the mind came down sooner they would repeat something in in his ear uh interestingly when takur got into the mood of shiva there was one time when they were singing a lot of songs to sheba and he went into a very deep state now depending upon what triggered his samadhi would be a different type of samadhi if it's if it's some dualistic school and some highly devotional school then possibly he'll be having visions and everything shiva represents the absolute so on this one occasion he it took a long time for the devotees to bring his mind back down he used to tell them you repeat the name if it's if it's one song that sends me into that mood you repeat that name shiva or your feed mother something like that so finally he said uh when you sing these songs of shiva there's this danger that i'll go into this state of samadhi think something about the divine mother something like that so even for suramar krishna there were different levels of his nervous copper somanti swamiji when he had his nirvikalpa samadhi experience which which was verified by surami krishna in kashipur how long did it last we don't know maybe a half hour 20 minutes not long because shortly after that first of all swami advaitananda the elder gopal he wasn't yet swami he ran up and told srama krishna and taqwa said let him remain in that state for some time but then shortly after they had some conversation i don't know how long so even swamiji either he couldn't stay in that state too long or i wasn't meant to stay in that state too long where tucker played a trick and brought his mind back down these these are very very difficult difficult questions too worshipers of shiva can be of two types they can they can think of shiva as baba and have devotional relationship think of the the human form anthropomorphic form or shiva can represent the infinite absolute shivoham i am that feeling of oneness and in general even even worshiping shiva in a devotional way doesn't prevent one from feeling that oneness whereas worshipping the avatars or narayanas vaishnava schools and generally they won't have that attitude the devotees of the divine mother they can go either way they can say saham saaham i am she there will be some who will do that generally they won't though generally they'll like that relationship but they'll accept the truth of oneness and and prefer the relationship they'll want to taste sugar not become sugar that'll be the distinction for them but devotees of shiva will both will see the tremendous devotion i remember i went to caternaut one time and seeing people with such tremendous devotion walking step after said or not tremendous devotion but no antagonism to the idea of of oneness generally for the worshipers of shiva whereas those who worship any of the forms of of narayana that means the avatars also mostly rama krishna they will have a little antagonism towards this idea of absolute oneness they'll like this idea that we're part of god or we're in a devotee of god something like that i started early today it is said that there are places near kedar this is kedarnath this is up in the himalayas it's a beautiful place they had horrible uh horrible flooding some years ago and the whole road and most yeah but fortunately the temple wasn't damaged but uh and you know they had to rebuild everything to get there i went there many years ago and it's tremendous tremendous feeling there the shiva lingam is is just a stone it's what they call a natural shiva lingam some are uh are formed they'll polish the stone and give it the normal shape shankaracharya is said to have passed away there his somatipid is there uh he's also said to have passed away in kanchi kanchipuram so nobody knows exactly the two two different uh traditions were there by the tremendous atmosphere there and i remember walking uh you don't see it or not there's a mountain also it's uh this is just like shiva represents the himalayas so when you're walking up you don't see it until you're fairly close and then you because you're kind of going around and then you turn one corner and you look up and it's straight up that is fantastic snow white just like shiva snow white this is kid or nut and the water is so cold we we took a bath which means it jumped in and came right out yeah maybe one second in there it's ice water it's just you know a little bit further up it's just the snow that melts and comes down so it is said that there are places near kedar that are covered with eternal snow he who climbs too high cannot come back so again this is never be called the samadhi or too deeply in every couple hard to say cannot come back those who have tried to find out what there is in the highest higher regions or what one feels there have not come back to tell us about it so this will be that one divacutes huh that won't be able to come back but uh taku will talk about even even him ishwara kotis that in that ex in that state of nirvikalpa samadhi there's there's no individuality there's no one there to observe what it's like there was there was an incident we'll get to it later where astronomy christian wanted to explain to the devotees what it feels like going through when kundalini rises to all the different chakras and he could explain here you see light here you see this and here you have visions gods and goddesses every time he started saying when you get to the sahasrara when he was as soon as he would say that he would lose consciousness and then come back and say oh no now i'll control myself i really want to tell you what it's like and again he was soon as he would think about that he'd be gone and then they said with tears in his eyes he said it's simply not possible one cannot say in that state what it's what that experience is like one has to experience it so they say it's like someone who [Music] who can't speak uh how does he explain what something tastes like is it an expression yeah we'll get to that yeah after having the vision of god man is overpowered with bliss he becomes silent who will speak who will explain the king lives beyond seven gates at each gate sits a man endowed with great power and glory at each gate the visitor asks is this the king the gatekeeper answers no not this not this the visitor passes through the seventh gate and becomes overpowered with joy he is speechless this time he doesn't have to ask is this the king the mere sight of him removes all doubts how do we know if we've had the highest experience we won't we won't have any doubts in that state because all doubts are removed all karma is burned up all the knots of the heart are untied thus and and will feel that tremendous joy now what about people who have some type of delusion i i've met people that are convinced that the cia are after them that they'll they'll suffer from different types of delusive ideas you can't convince a mother they'll they'll be more certain about this than someone who's had god realization even takur even after the vision of mother kali a little doubt came into his mind and he didn't do it with that really with the help of the guru of following any regular spiritual practices didn't align very much with things in the scriptures he wanted to do it again experience it in other ways even when narendra would tell him these are all hallucinations these visions and everything little doubt would come he said oh i went to the divine mother she said don't listen to that boy that everything you saw is real but so what about people who are suffering some type of delusion they're convinced you won't see that joy and bliss so we have to have both that that we we know that we had some experience and it frees us and we have perfect joy from that preacher yes sir it is so described in vedanta master when the godhead is thought of as creating preserving and destroying it is known as the personal god saguna brahman or the primal energy again when it is thought of as beyond the three goddess then is it is called attributeless reality near guna brahmin beyond speech and thought this is the supreme brahman para brahman now i'm going to take exception a little bit to the translation here only only because first of all let me say that i think swami nikhilanani did an unbelievable job with the english translation there are things that that are left out there are things that are the order has changed a tiny bit but all of the important teachings when taka says something uh he he has a beautiful way of explaining it catching catching the meaning of it one or two places uh where uh there's a slight little distinction and he wasn't the only one he had his editors and people advised him what to write and everything so uh this is not it's certainly not a criticism of the translation but this personal god saguna brahman there's there's nothing in there except saguna brahman that's his translation personal god sagona brahman in vedanta is not exactly the personal god this is personal god the term that really fits better is the bhagavan and bhagavan is not part of traditional vedanta from the upanishads this will be from the devotional schools now the reason i mention this is that in the in the upanishads our saguna brahman is there of course but it's not this is our ishwara ishwara is not someone that they pray to is not someone who has the virtues of love and kindness and mercy and and will bestow grace and all of that it's still impersonal the gooness that it has will be mostly these shaktis so it's really saguna brahman is really kind of a shakti it's that has the power to project the universe to uphold the universe and withdraw the universe three main powers when we talk about bhagavan bahadur is also bhagas are also lagunas and there are different theories of course but they're supposed to be six bagas six six of these divine qualities that fall under the category of aishwarya the lordly so these will be courage and strength the ballad tejas all of these different things and there'll be six madhuria qualities these will be the sweet ones that love compassion kindness and everything this will belong more to the devotional schools so in in vedanta we don't really have this idea of the personal god i've mentioned it before but it was very striking to me swami lakeshwa many of you of course saw him he came to this country a couple of times but he was in charge of the institute of culture for many years a fantastic speaker and a very clear thinker and a very wonderful loving loving person i i was very very fond of him anyhow he spoke in hollywood one time and i went there and he started with the words there is no personal god in vedanta it was kind of shocking i don't know if he if he did it for shock effect or not because we're so used to worshiping the person of god what he meant was in vedanta strictly meaning in the upanishads so this is also impersonal but uh it's not actionless so this the supreme brahman will be just pure consciousness and uh and when brahman is saying together with shakti then we have yeshua where the divine mother and this this power would be the most of this chit shakti to project this universe and everything this personal god a little bit of our own superimposition of qualities and attributes and things like that and a little bit of this idea god dwelling within the heart is the under yaman as the inner controller the inner guide the one that we pray to the one that can answer prayers some people will say that this is the role of the avatar that the avatar will be the one who will remain in some personal state will answer our prayers these are all different ways of trying to understand something that's essentially very mysterious very hard to so anyhow just just uh it is known as the personal god really uh in the what taka was saying it is known as saguna brahman or adhya shakti sees uh so this going to brahman i would i would say would just be a brahmana together with uh this power the power of projection and that that shakti and or the adhya shakti so that means is adhya shakti the primal energy when takara talks about this he doesn't mean the primal energy as something separate from that which possesses the primal energy shakti and shaktimat are one and the same this is this is his view of uh that say mother kali or the divine mother is not the shakti of brahman that the divine mother herself is both just when when we think of brahman together with shakti then we can use that term divine mother or shakti adiya shakti uh it's not otherwise shakti is is just some inert power it doesn't doesn't it uh so taku is not worshiping mother kali is it just uh that uh that half of this of this whole uh he's worshiping her as everything together the the illustration that i like best that i've heard from swami swanergy so many times is about the woman and the mother and we've i you're probably sick of hearing me say this but uh it's it's such a nice interpretation that when the woman when she gives she has that power to give birth that power can't be understood as existing in any way other than as part of the woman it has no separate existence it has to be there but it's not always active when it's not active we simply call her a woman when she has a child then she becomes a mother but the woman aspect is always there she doesn't cease to become a woman the child is not there then she's not the mother anymore so this is this is that relationship between niergun and saguna brahma we shouldn't think that that brahmana is wanting and ishward is another thing or and even bhagavan another thing that these are all one and the same well the one in the same just uh one is with this power manifest the other potential power and the third one is god dwelling within the heart connected to us the the inner guide that which we worship is a personal god how different it will be from your idea yeah the sankey idea the purusa and these are two halves which which kind of work together but are eternally separate yeah so the sankia uh is a system that it's it's essentially dualistic from from the point of view of of parakurti nature on one side and purusha on the other side and dualistic also in the sense that there are many individual jivas which they also call purushas so uh this we have this uh uh artanari swara you know you we see these statues that have uh shiva have poverty half male have female only one figure this is closer to what taqwa means but for taqwa really there's only one and sometimes this power is is active sometimes it's inactive that's all so he can't imagine that shakti could have or what they call prakriti could have any existence separate from ishwara in in the sankhya system purusha has to be present they have to be close to each other they give the example of of the of the king the king is sitting on his throne uh he the all of the ministers and all the servants and everyone uh they just have to be in his presence he doesn't even tell him what to do he'll look and then they'll say okay now time for me to do my job fun time for me to do my job that's that relationship proximity and uh everything depends on the purusha and the king that way in in vedanta vedanta uses sankia up until the very end then at the very end it says but this this distinction is really a false one that there's really oneness otherwise that's why we see so much of sankey philosophy fully accepted only the ultimate conclusion of sankir there's a dualistic conclusion is denied in in vedanta a dwight vedanta other schools also even if they believe in a personal god then these powers belong to the personal god in the some of the uh they go to evasion of a system the radha radha represents the different shaktis of krishna who represents brahman so even there there are not two separate things there's some union of krishna so i'll read this again when the godhead is thought of as creating preserving and destroying so these are gunas not really gunas really shaktis anyhow it is known as saguna brahman i'm not going to say personal god here if he goes slight distinction there or the primal energy so adhya shakti he's he's talking about this primary this this shakti not as being something that added on to the ishwara but as ishwara himself or divine mother herself again when it is thought of as beyond the three gonas then it is called the attributeless reality near gona brahman beyond speech and thought this is the supreme brahman padibrahman now he's saying beyond speech and thought this this will tie in to this idea of the salt dog that it's not only that the salt doll isn't really there to witness it at that time but uh what can be seen has no attributes or anything there's there's nothing to describe there it's it's just just oneness it's just uh we we have no words for it literally have no words for it under the spell of god's maya man forgets his true nature now maya also has two meanings one is a cosmic that is maya is is the way that the shakti will manifest uh some sometimes it's used to indicate that this creation is is is not a real material type of creation but in any event the maya goes with the brahman now maya here sometimes called avidya he's talking about the maya that comes upon an individual after this whole act of creation has taken place we're also born with maya that means that we're born lacking the knowledge of our real nature and falsely identifying with body mind senses and everything else personality under the spell of god's maya man forgets his true nature he forgets that he is heir to the infinite glories of the father this divine maya is made up of three gunas okay now this is a this is a one of the verses from the gita very nice verse this is a divine maya of mine is made up of the gunas so we we have according to the different schools we have brahman on the one side and maya these these two go together brahman and this divine power or mysterious power whatever it is we go down a little bit and make it a little more realistic and we have brahmana in shakti so then the shakti is not really a power of illusion it's a power of actually projecting something we go a little further down and this maya becomes prakriti that means really material that these gunas are actual substantial types of things so that'll be the sankia school but we need something to go along with the brahmin if we start with the brahman and have nothing else then we we can't explain anything even if we say this is all an illusion we can't explain why we have this experience of this illusion we we have a dream we wake up and say it was just a dream that doesn't explain why we had the dream if we can say it wasn't real then why do you want to know where it came from if it wasn't real well it didn't have to come at all if it's not real but it came so we say maya is not absolutely unreal because we see the effects of it it's not absolutely real because it disappears with knowledge so somewhere in between so this cannot be described as either real or unreal some something a little bit so maya we can't really explain what it is and brahman we can't say anything about it and yet we have thousands and thousands of philosophical works trying to explain these two things [Laughter] this is this is that uh cosmic joke we think we can understand these things with uh with this little this small small container of the mind tako said it's like trying to to pour in five gallons of milk in a one gallon yard so this divine maya is made up of the three gunas and all three are robbers now when we're talking about this divine maya of of ishwara then we're talking about that which creates the universe when we're talking about this maya for an individual we're talking about the subtle gunas we're talking about the tendencies of the mind and attachments to those thomasic ideas that we're attached to our laziness and and the lack of enthusiasm or rajest that ambition and desire or sattva even that there's a little desire for to do good things and be kind and everything a little bit of desire and attachment there also so the three goon is uh oh okay and all these are robbers before they rob man of all his treasures and make him forget his true nature the three gunas are sattva rajas and thomas of these thomas alone points the way to god but even sattva cannot take a man to god we talk about three gunas actually uh it's almost better to think of it as two as uh rajas and thomas together forming one group and sattva another group now in gita of course it says thomas will lower you rajas will keep you the same and satwa will take you up but rajesh also pulls us down rajas can be terrible we'll we'll see here so i in turn in terms of spiritual practice that we can look upon thomas and rajas together as things that we want to eliminate and sattvas is that which we want we don't want to start out with this idea well sattva is also binding so i don't want to develop satwik qualities that will be absolute foolishness we have to develop these qualities before we can give them up sattva represents the final rungs of the latter so we have to get rid of we start out with thomas and then we have rajas and sattva if we if we say i don't want to go through satwa even that but we won't get to the roof so we have to go one after the other get rid of all the lower ones and once we get the satwa then we're getting closer and closer so we have to develop these satwik qualities of love and devotion and compassion kindness all of this goodness let me tell you a story once a rich man was passing through a forest when three robbers surrounded him and robbed him of all his wealth sorry after snatching all his possessions from him one of the robbers said what's the good of keeping the man alive kill him saying this he was about to strike their victim with his sword when the second robber interrupted and said there's no use in killing him let us bind him fast and leave him here then he won't be able to tell the police accordingly the robbers tied him with a robe left him and went away after a while the third robber returned to the rich man and said ah you're badly hurt aren't you come i'm going to release you the third robber set the man free and led him out of the forest when they came near the highway the robber said follow this road and you will reach home easily but you must come with me too said the man you have done so much for me we shall all be happy to see you at our home no said the robber it is not possible for me to go there the police will arrest me so saying he left the rich man after pointing out his way now the first robber who said what's the the good of keeping the man alive kill him is thomas it destroys the second robber is rajus which binds a man to the world and entangles him in a variety of activities rajas makes them forget god satwa alone shows the way to god it produces virtues like compassion righteousness and devotion again sattva is like the last step of the stairs next to it is the roof the supreme brahman is man's own abode one cannot attain the knowledge of brahman unless one transcends the three gunas so now he's telling us we can get to the roof they're very complicated now when he says thomas can kill that it's really true that this thomas is really it can be deep depression it can be just falling into that terrible lethargy and the indolence and not wanting to do anything and not feeling any power it's really black the the gunners have their colors that thomas is always thought of as black it means darkness and rogers is red and satura is white so this this thomas really uh what do we do we need rajas if we have that it doesn't matter what it is something to get us out of bed something did get us to do something even even if it's uh to earn money and to have enjoyment and wealth something so that at least at least we feel active we feel that we're alive so then once we have a little bit this rajas then we can direct it towards something positive and this is where sattva comes in rajisk has pride rajas has ambition some of these things anger jealousy uh they could be considered thomas igor rajasik both the the real uh distinctive element of thomas is this uh feeling of not wanting to do anything worse than laziness but but just uh helplessness almost it can't do anything swamiji hated this he thought that this was the problem with the modern day youth of india modern that means during his time that they just this mild mig hindu he didn't like this idea the mild hindu he said no strike back somebody does something strike back it's okay he you know that story one boy came so mild and everything swamiji asked can you tell a lie he's all swamiji i could never tell a lie he said first learn to tell a lie that means at least go to develop a little rajs just to get out of your thomas you think that you're so satwik and everything really you just have no energy no ambition nothing not that he wanted anybody to lie but just just to develop a little bit of regis that way he used to say thomas masquerading as sattva that we think that we're very kind and and sweet and nice people will never yell at anybody who somebody insults us we won't say anything everything he said no this is a thomas attitude somebody does something somebody does something unrighteous huh then do something it's okay stand up for your rights be it this is once we reach the satwik stage then we also transcend that that's not the highest state but when we get to that higher state he says swamiji says that this non-reaction he said this is for the satu the householder to protect yourself to protect your family and everything you have to react but if we reach that state of perfect renunciation then then we don't even have to react then we've transcended rajas to reach sattwa so this was our greatest friend we have to sat was the one who points out the way but we also have to leave it behind in gita there's a section that talks about the bondage to the different gunas and with with the sattva is to goodness and kindness and uh and knowledge and all of that we develop a little pride also from that and little attachment to that so we have to learn to transcend that but that's the very end we don't have to worry about that at this stage we have to develop satwa before we can transcend satwa and sato is what eliminates the others rajas gets rid of thomas that would get gets rid of rajas this is this is the progression that we make and we're all a combination do the masters or do they occasionally come down yeah these those god realized souls or avatars those who who have to live in this world uh they have to have a little bit of of rajs but in a very satwik way that that means at least a little bit of of activity something that tako says that even gold pure gold is not very valuable that it has to have a little bit of an alloy if you want to turn it into jewelry otherwise it's too soft so uh taking the human mind there will be little so we'll see taco every once in a while he'll get annoyed with something we'll see experiencing also also sadness and and uh warning those who who pass away all sorts of human emotions will be there but it's not the same because there's no ego behind it there's no attachment behind it it doesn't last uh these things are just uh sometimes taqwa says it's just just the form of it and not the reality of it they like the line drawn on water huh this uh anger dog the anger of a holy person or godly person it's just like a line drawn on water it doesn't have any any depth or strength to it but yes they'll they'll have to have a little bit of this alloy huh a little bit of regis maybe a little bit of thomas they'll have to sleep also sometimes but such a tiny bit just enough to let them live in the world otherwise the mind will go up they'll be emerged in the absolute they won't be able to do anything so i started to say we're all a combination and it's very it's very uh curious how some of us well i said everybody probably in some areas are so satwik in other areas they're so domestic so we can we can be so and other areas rogers think of course we can have tremendous energy for some things other things we'll just constantly postpone doing it we just can't bring ourselves to do it uh i've i've seen i've seen some of our among one of her monks in particular it was so satwik he's he's he was the our artist swami everything he did was just so pure and wonderful you go into a room it was a mess it was dusty and everything of course docker says that's a sign of saturn sometimes but it's just that he just never got around to cleaning his room that the the incense with burnt the ashes will be there make a big pile and everything so we're all the curious uh combination of these things how uh first of all from time to time sometimes we'll be very kind and sweet other times we'll lose our temper quickly we don't know why and sometimes in some areas uh we're very energetic and active and others uh we procrastinate all of the time so we're all a combination and and it's and generally uh not very static it's you know these these gunas are fighting with each other sometimes one wins sometimes in other wins there's a little game that goes on oh this is all part of the mind this isn't any external thing this is our own the the uh qualities of the mind satwik rajasthan thomas equalities of the mind uh battling each other and we of course try to to throw our weight on the satwik part of the mind and do whatever we can so that when uh when that tendency there is to get angry at someone we let the satwik part of the mind say no no no they're doing the best they can they didn't mean it forget it it's not going to make you feel better let it alone so this is the way the mind works really the sankey philosophy despite the fact that it's dualistic it has so many nice elements to it this idea of and we find it's very old sake is a very old philosophy we find reference to the gunas and the upanishads it's probably as old as at least as vedantas the upanishads preacher you have given us a fine talk sir master with a smile do you know the nature of devotees when one devotee meets another he says let me speak and you listen and when you speak i shall listen you are a preacher and teach so many people you are a steamship and i'm a mere fishing boat i'll laugh we don't know who this preacher is it's probably not one that that we're familiar with steve not josh or they had many different they were called the acharyas yes these little fishing boats the others is a big ship jaaj okay next day is wednesday may 2nd again 1883. about five o'clock in the afternoon srama christian arrived at the temple of the brahma-samaj in nandan bagan so again so many times especially in the early days these were the people that he visited and they invited him for their different festivals and things the brahmos so much accompanied by m rakal and a few other devotees so this is may 1883 rockhall has been coming for a couple of years m has now been coming for over a year at first the master sat in the drawing room on the ground floor where the brahma devotees gradually assembled tagore and the few other members of the tagore family were present on this occasion now as far as i can remember this is the only reference to tagore in the entire gospel this is the only time that we hear we never hear of uh verbena not we never hear of tour visiting christianity now is it impossible is it not important could he have been on the on the ship when they all came could he have been with the group of devotees when keisha came i guess it's possible but we never hear his name he must have seen takur when taku went to different homes or when he went to to their their main place their temple whatever they call it the promise of their meeting hall he must have seen him at different times but this is the only time when he specifically mentioned the relationship between tagore and and srama krishna is complicated i and i don't want to say too much about it because tagore even even among uh our staunch ramakrishna devotees is a highly beloved figure in bengal and his poetry is beautiful he brought great pride to bengals his nobel laureate and many of our swamis that love his songs or swami sarva david and most of the devotees grow up with these songs and when they learn singing when they're young this is the the verb this is what they'll learn at the same time there was always a little friction and clash between the brahma-samaj later and the ramakrishnan mission it's very hard to say what anybody's real feeling was because tagore he only wrote one poem huh i think mentioned that last time about surrounding krishna highly praising him of course it was on the occasion of the hundredth of birth anniversary 100th birth anniversary that he said something 1936 i think 1936 yeah yeah so uh partly of course was a completely different philosophy that they very much were people of the upanishads or at least thought that they were which meant that they didn't care much for any of the later image worship and things like that but partly little jealousy yeah the little jealousy had to have been there maybe not with tagore but with others to a certain extent uh the story is that uh swamiji or narendra was approached at one point i guess after the passing away sramakrishna uh and asked if he would become one of their big acharya or something the keshav had passed away he passed away a couple of years before takur did and vijay krishna goswami left also so and i think when swamiji rebuffed them probably they they also didn't take that very well so a very complicated relationship but tagore really whether whether we like his songs or not he was one of the most important figures in bengal and his poetry is highly highly appreciated by many people after returning from the us those letters are highly revealing he specifically mentioned about this this clash between these two okay so uh porvo is telling us yeah no no that that yeah anybody who's really interested i'm sure that there are there are letters and things that can be found i don't want to go into it too much but just just so we have some kind of picture of this the other thing is that taka went to sea to his father they benzernath and it's not 100 flattering huh not 100 flattering number one number two that defender not invited takur to come for their upcoming big festival and then he said something very curious he said but sir please when you come please dress properly talk with generally didn't wear a shirt unless it was a cold cold weather and he said a very funny thing it would hurt me very much if people criticized you a little bit ingenuine huh then later tucker laughed laughingly said later he sent me a letter don't come yeah if you can dress like you know then better that you don't come something like that so for the different reasons maybe tagore felt that his father was was not presented very nicely in the gospel something like that but somehow he captured these these beautiful vedantic ideas and and devotional ideas in his in his poetry yeah so he's very high highly he's thought of and regarded uh swami pradesh or one of the earlier present presidents he quotes from very often many of our swamis so he he somehow had this sensitivity and the shanti niketan and other things that he started really there's not much left of the brahma samaj today but he he really left his mark he's one of the great figures huh of india so it's interesting that this is the only time that i remember that his name appears in the gospel and a few other members of the tugor family were present on this occasion srama krishna was asked to go to the worship hall on the second floor a dice had been built on the eastern side of the room there were a few chairs and a piano in the hall the brahma worship was to begin at dusk as soon as the master entered the worship hall he bowed low before the diocese having taken his seat he said to m and the other devotees narendra once asked me what good is there in bowing before the brahmo-samaj temple because they didn't believe much in this imaging and worshiping bowing down and all of that stuff the sight of the temple recalls to my mind god alone then god consciousness is kindled in my mind god is present where people talk about him one feels they are the presence of all the holy places places of worship recall god alone to my mind once a devotee was overwhelmed with ecstasy at the sight of a babala tree it may be from the chaitanya one of the stories of caitanya deva the idea flashed in his mind that the handle of the ax used in the garden of the temple of radha kanta was made from the wood of the babla another devotee had such a devotion for his guru that he would be overwhelmed with a divine feeling at the sight of his guru's neighbors krishna consciousness would be kindled in radha's mind at the sight of a cloud a blue dress or a painting of krishna because of the blue complexion she would become restless and cry like a mad person krishna where art thou then it goes on let me stop here we'll get a funny question but madness is not desirable okay we'll start with that next time [Music] who was stainless of infinite nature whose heart melts in sympathy for his devotees who is an embodiment of the divine and the supreme lord and ever worthy of our worship um shanti shanti peace peace peace be unto all everyone please stay well apparently there's good news that things are opening up we're told that we don't have to wear masks anymore that people can come and gather together so we'll see if next month or or shortly after that we'll be able to have people come here for the sunday talks and everything we'll of course let everyone know through our or the email to our monthly bulletin at the very least those who were vaccinated and two weeks in please don't hesitate to come and you don't have to wear a mask when you come also this is the new guideline okay thank you all see you next time