Video 18

The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna with Swami Atmajnanananda (07/31/20)

foreign your words are like nectar bringing life to squirt souls they are praised by poets and remove all sin they are auspicious to hear wonderful and exalted those who spread these words throughout the world are truly giving souls welcome everyone to our class on the gospel of sriami krishna if you're following along in the book we're on page 113 about close to the middle and suramar krishna has been talking to m and yeah this is thursday august 24th 1882 we're in the middle of the conversation srama christian had been talking to hazra and then m arrived so it seems like it's just the two of them talking together at this time is it good for us to pay attention sometimes to know who is in the room and whom sharon krishna is speaking to to give some context when he's talking only to m then he can talk to him very specifically m has a very specific uh set of issues that he's dealing with uh he has this tremendous desire actually to be a sannyasin but he's a householder he's not very happy with his home life when he was living in his father's house and left with his wife and and were living separately so there are a lot of specific issues that when tucker is talking will be especially special advice to to m as well as to all of us this uh whenever talk we're speaking it's something that we can all of course learn from so taka was talking about [Music] spiritual discipline in order to know what lies within then he says sometimes i used to assume a rajistic mood in order to practice renunciation we think of thomas and rajas as very negative things but for some reason uh takur like this thomas of bhakti and also this this rajest that we'll we'll see just to test his mind out with his rajas but with thomas he liked this idea that we force our demands on god anything that turns thomas from the world to god can can be turned into something positive and you know now he's talking about his rajas once i had the desire to put on a gold embroidered embroidered robe wear a ring on my finger and smoke a hubble bubble with a long pipe we shouldn't call this a real desire a little fancy something came into his mind that i wonder what it's like not that he had any strong desire but i wonder what it's like if something would come into taquer's mind that way then he he would try to see what it was really like he would try to work it out so he wanted to to really really see what it felt like and of course mata babu was there to get him whatever he wanted so he said once i had a desire to put on a gold embroidered robe wear a ring on my finger and smoke a hubble bubble with a long pipe matar babu procured all these things for me so immediately he went to him and told him i wore the gold embroidered robe which was very very expensive mature had spent something like a thousand rupees and it was a ridiculous amount in those days gold embroidered robe and said to myself after a while mind so this is his point that we get a desire and we analyze it and sometimes we even fulfill it if it's a harmless desire we fulfill it and analyze how the mind reacts is it really so wonderful what what is the benefit what is the gain from these things so he was talking to his mind he said mind this is what is called a gold embroidered robe then i took it off and threw it away i couldn't stand the robe anymore again i said to myself mind this is called a shawl and this a ring and this smoking a hubble bubble with a long pipe i threw those things away once for all and the desire to enjoy them never rose arose in my mind again tucker mentions this several different times sometimes he says that i even spat on and began to stomp on it on this this road and the tucker had to stop me it was worth so much money that mature had to stop him it was almost dusk the master and m stood talking alone near the door on the southeast veranda when they're alone we find that em will ask very good questions and get very straight answers from sravya krishna just as in the very couple of first few meetings first three meetings we find all these wonderful questions uh master to m so now srama christian is starting the conversation the mind of a yogi is always fixed on god always absorbed in the self you can recognize such a man by merely looking at him his eyes are wide open with an aimless look like the eyes of a mother bird hatching her eggs her entire mind is fixed on the eggs and there is a vacant look in her eyes can you show me such a picture and i shall try to get one i don't know how much later but m found one and those who are familiar with the early editions of the bengali version kotamrito that on the front page that picture is there it's just a sketch have you noticed that there'll be the nest and the bird there sitting on the eggs and what do they call it dab dabby or something what's the term you know through the eyes or that vacant expression you remember anyhow there's some term term for it that they use but so i am fulfilled that he he he found the picture like that and showed trump the point is that uh the eyes are open and maybe even some seeing is taking place what does that mean seeing is taking place that uh some visual contact the light is coming it's striking the eye but the mind is someplace else the mind is absorbed in god so that the why the eyes are not focused on anything everything is fully in drawn with the drawing type of mood but the eyes may even be open at that time as the evening came on the temples were lighted up srama krishna was seated on a small couch meditating on the divine mother then he chanted the names of god this was always what happened at uh uh when when the sun would go down tucker always went into a spiritual mood and he used to tell the people that at this period give up all other work for the time being don't do anything let your mind dwell on god a very auspicious time this uh changing from day to night and night to day these sandhya periods some people say midnight and and noon also these are before sunday appears sunday period means uh where where there's some uh connection between day and night night and day or or some uh reaching the high point and then going down so noon sun reaches the apex and then starts to go down midnight is it dead middle and then sunrise and sunset these are considered very auspicious times for spiritual practice suramar christian was seated on his small couch meditating on the divine mother then he chanted the names of god incense was burnt in the room where an oil lamp had been lighted i i always emphasize that it's very very helpful for us to try to imagine the scene and feel that we're sitting in the room with sriramic krishna and m and you know there's there's no electric light or anything so they'll light some lamps or oil lamps and things and they'll burn the incense so the room will be kind of smoky and dim and beautiful atmosphere sounds of the kung shells and gongs came floating on the air as the evening worship began in the temple of qali the light of the moon flooded all the quarters the master again spoke to em master perform your duties in an unselfish spirit now takur his mind is still remembering the very recent visit they had to vidyasagar and all of the good philanthropical work that with the asagar used to do perform your duties in an unselfish spirit the work that vidyasagar is engaged in is very good so taka appreciated it uh when when takur says that vidyasagar is too entangled in that doesn't realize that gold hidden within we shouldn't take it to maine that he he didn't appreciate all of the good work and the vidyasagar did and that he wasn't interested in any type of social service work he came for a different purpose there were plenty of people to emphasize social service work in those days uh especially with the brahma samaj and other things he came with a different purpose to tell people about the treasure lying within so he says perform your duties in an unselfish spirit the work that vidyasagar is engaged in is very good always try to perform your duties without desiring any result now without desiring any result means without desiring any selfish result we want a good result we shouldn't do anything unless we're hopeful that we'll be successful right we won't spend hour after hour in the lab trying to come up with a vaccine for the coveted 19 and then say well i don't really care if it works or not we won't do that but what we'll do is we'll put all of our effort into it being successful and then say now it's out of my hands and also say i'm not doing it for any personal benefit i don't become famous or rich or anything i want to help people i have no selfish motive for that this is what what he means without desiring any result any selfish result em yes sir but may i know if one can realize god while performing one's duties this is a big question in vedanta that can karma yoga lead directly to god realization or does it simply lead to purification of the mind and then we give up all work and devote ourselves wholly to yana yoga or bhakti yoga or something else is it only preliminary is it a first stage or can we perform duties throughout up to the time of god realization we hear that janaka and others but it's a short list we were reading the other day that uh talks with swami vivekananda and he says you read the entire scriptures you won't find another name other than janna they'll mention one or two but he's the one that's always mentioned and even that taqwa said how much spiritual practice he did not that it wasn't just through karma yoga so this is am's question may i know if one can realize god will perform anyone's duties can rama and desire coexist ramen come this the other day i read in a hindi kaplet where rama is their desire cannot be where desire is their rama cannot be this is tulsidas one of one of the yeah very famous uh couplets that the tulsidas is where rama is there's no comma where kam is there's no rama that means that the two can't go together this comma word it always means desire in general and usually lust in in in specif particularly or specifically it'll refer to loss but desire in general master all without exception perform work so uh when we ha oh calm also means work in hindi that's true that's true bengali come huh yeah but generally it's taken to mean desire well that's interesting yes they use the same word in hindi yeah they always translated as desire but desire and work karma yoga usually if there's work there's some desire behind it so there is that connection that's interesting i hadn't thought about that all without exception perform work even to chant the name and glories of god is a work as is the meditation of the non-dualist one i am he breathing is also an activity there is no way of renouncing work altogether so do your work but surrender the result to god now this this shows us really how attuned srama christi's thinking was to that of the gita this is exactly what we find in gitas exactly what sri krishna tells arjuna you want to give up work that everything is work don't think it simply means that you won't go into the battle that walking and talking and sitting and and brushing your teeth and combing your hair everything is work and in in this very large general sense that there's if if we want to transcend work we have to do it only by giving up this attitude that i am the doer otherwise we can't live without doing something this is a karma it doesn't necessarily mean work it means activity means action it means anything that we do anything that we do so this is his way of saying that they're not mutually exclusive that everybody has to work and don't think that if you if you say i'm going to give up my job and i'm going to sit in meditation that this isn't work we have the very famous uh verse in in guitar which talks about uh seeing action in inaction and inaction in action huh it's very confusing what exactly it means but the the point is that uh seeing action in inaction that means if i'm sitting for meditation and i think oh i'm meditating now then i'm performing action if i'm if i'm doing something and i think that uh i'm not the agent of action or i'm simply an instrument then it's not action it's actionlessness huh nice karmia so this is the this is that distinction it's more a distinction of mind it's a distinction of attitude spiritual attitude not so much of what type of work we're doing so if we're if we're very busy day and night with with our duties and obligations and the mind is perfectly free and clear and merged in god and simply watching then this is actionlessness nice karmia siddhi very nice text that was written by uh one of shankaracharya's disciples so that's what i tell you huh yeah which is taken from from that phrase and found in gita nice conversation so then m asks sir may i make an effort to earn more money now this is kind of a sticky point why does ann want to make more money huh not that he wants to be rich and was very very simple he didn't care at all for any type of nice clothes or food or a fancy place to live or anything but he had left his house that meant that he was living more or less rent-free than a joint family they could all share expenses and things and now for just being a headmaster and a schoolteacher and everything uh he didn't make that much money that he could afford to live on his own and and take care of his obligations and things so it's a very practical question he's not just saying in theory is it okay but he's really thinking it's kind of a bold and risky move that's that's one of the reasons tucker didn't like it one of course was that he thought he should learn to be able to get along with his father and and stepmother and brothers and everything and the other was that there'll be less anxiety with regard to where money will come from and food and cooking and all of these things his mind will be free to think of god so he was always pushing him to to go back and live at home and it's a constant tug of war in m's mind should he do it or should he not do it should he reconcile with his father for a while they weren't on very good terms at all and we'll find later i don't know when maybe within a couple of years he does go back home and then afterwards he lives on his own and he lived in different places for a long time he would simply live in that morton institute we're hitting the school on the top floor and was was an interesting person that there were times when he would go sleep at night on the uh one of the universities huh there's uh or the senate hall something there's a great big open area and homeless people sleep there they'll spread a blanket and sleep there he would go and do the same thing just so that he could feel what it meant to be to be homeless to be like not to be a beggar but have a beggar have sannyasi to know what it's like to just rely on god have no other resources something like that so he's asking may i make an effort to earn more money so specifically he's not just saying is it all right for someone he's asking because i am at this point and we see it's just within the six months or so the first meeting swami krishna he has such tremendous faith in him even with regard to the household questions and things like that career and money and everything not that he always followed he it was so difficult for him to reconcile with the family it took a long time before he took takwa's advice with that but eventually he did master it is permissible to do so to maintain a religious family you may try to increase your income but in an honest way so this is number one has to be honest the goal of life is not the earning of money but the service of god money is not harmful if it is devoted to the service of god now money for some reason of of all of the passions huh it was lust and greed anger taqwa very rarely talked about it these are usually the three these are the three gates to hell that we read of in the gita but for taqwa it was always this comma and kanjin so these were the two and money he used to say was it was a terrible upadhi he used that term uparti that means something that gets added on to us we we get a little money and a little pride comes and a little attachment comes a little desire for enjoyment all of these things come so we warned very much about money so this is is a big admission for sri ramakrishna to say that yes it's okay he's not enthusiastic we remember with adhar there was a deputy magistrate at a young age was a very big position and he earned a very good salary and he had uh the opportunity to get even a higher position and was even asking people that even talk work and tucker prayed to him and asking other people who may have some connections just to help them and everything and tucker scolded him very much he said people have killed themselves to get to the deputy magistrate position which you have and you're not content with that and this is this is someone that takur considered to be a very highly qualified spiritual aspirant this is why he wanted to make sure he didn't get too entangled with his money business so this was always a great point of the emphasis how getting a little wealth can really have some psychological effect through attachment through desire and all sorts of things but he's saying if you have to very grudgingly if you have to if it's for some dharmic reason in em's case it was it was to support the family he had several children at the same time and then wife and living alone and everything the other thing is that takwood said he didn't mind if people had money if they were charitable this surendra surrender mitra was extremely charitable taku used to say that he gives away more money than he makes and he said why do i take his money that meant that surendra was one of those who helped support takur he would buy provisions for him and things like that when i know he works in an office you work in an office you you can't always be truthful you have to compromise truth sometimes but why do i do it because he's so generous these are things that we don't think about much this idea of generosity and and they're serving others and helping others he doesn't emphasize it because as i say there were plenty of people to do that it was almost a fad in those days this uh because of vidyasagar and then brahma samaj and everything but he used to say that one who is who is not generous who has no compassion is not even a human being hmm not even considered to be a human being well we'll get later a very nice illustration that taku gives about generosity you know he has he has dozens and dozens of examples about bringing water from the from the reservoir into the field this is one of his favorite uh vehicles for different types of illustrations so he says that sometimes uh the water rushes so forcefully that maybe after there's a heavy rain or something or if there's a big reservoir and it's a very uh steep hill that it goes down the water will rush through so fast that it'll break the channels it'll break the sides and all the water will be lost so i said some farmers knowing this they'll make holes in different places so that the water some of the water can go out because some of the water can go out then the most of it or enough to flood the field just the proper amount will go into the field so the water goes out is very helpful but he also says that that brings silt to the land outside of the channel which becomes very fertile so that means it is beneficial for the farmer and beneficial for all of the others who have land on the other side of the channel that way so he says the same way with money that if we hoard it then it'll it'll break and it won't be useful to us if we share it it'll be beneficial to us and to others also so he's saying money is not harmful if it is devoted to the service of god that means helping other people also em how long should a man feel obliged to do his duty toward his wife and children now em still had young children and his wife what was the relationship between them and his wife huh we don't know exactly the one thing that we do know is that uh they had a son who died huh and this i don't know if it happened yet but it was uh within the first couple years i think of meeting srama krishna so maybe it hasn't quite happened yet 84 probably okay so this is 82. so within a couple of years and that m of course was a tremendous blow to him but his wife all really became mentally unbalanced and so i am uh he cared very deeply about his wife was very concerned about her uh but didn't seem to have this tremendous attachment to her he was very united he really if if it had been up to him he would have become a sanyasan he would have left household life but takwar didn't want him to he said you have obligations plus taco wanted him to remain in the world as the as an example that one can live like a sanyasan within the household situation guri sanyasi he used to say to make him that type of museum so m didn't really seem to be perfectly suited to the household life he didn't seem to have tremendously he had affection and love probably for his wife but not much attachment and he's always thinking will there come a time when i can renounce everything because takwa emphasized renunciation so much and he was so uh half envious of of the young boys who were coming who had no attachment hadn't gotten married yet and we're free to renounce the world and plus he'll never forget the scolding he got when he first went to swami krishna when tucker asked him are you married and he said yes and taqwa said ah ramallah alas he's married so in the back of his mind there's some idea that he made a little mistake maybe or if he had only met ramakrishna earlier that he wouldn't have gotten married he would have been one of the sannyasis so he's asking how long should a man feel obliged that means himself again a personal question to do his duty toward his wife and children master as long as they feel pinched for food and clothing now there was a tradition the many different traditions regarding who and when who could renounce the world and at what stage could they renounce the world there were some who very very firmly believed that this sanyasa could only come about after going through the other through stages of life this is one very strong belief there were some who thought that you could go directly from brahmacharya to sannyasa which is what we do more or less then this other belief is that one can take the sanyasa at any time if that renunciation the feeling of it is very very strong a fourth belief is that after the birth of a son one could do it and this was the case with swamiji's grandfather that's why swamiji's father was an only son i don't know if he there were daughters before that or not but he was an only son because as soon as he was born his his grandfather who always had the desire to be a sannyasin left left the world and we may say that oh that is very unfair of course it seems unfair to me but very unfair to do but we have to remember uh two things one is that very often they had no choice in the matter family would remain would arrange a marriage from them when they were young despite them saying i really don't want to be married or anything they would say you'll when you're older you'll understand is a good thing and everything so this is uh uh this is one of the things second thing is that in those days uh the the wife who's left behind will have full support of a joint family so they they won't be left helpless and takwo also some of his disciples who were married he said okay they have the strong desire but they better make sure that they make all arrangements for the wife and the family children everything for their for their future so these were different prevailing ideas at that at that time uh in general if tako saw that somebody wanted to renounce the world because uh they wanted to escape from responsibility then they would get a good scolding but he kept this one who was it harish what was his name yeah for some reason he allowed him to live with him for some time there when he still had a family he saw something genuine in him i guess others he would say nothing doing but we hear about this even rama ramchandra is a great householder disciple somebody once told srama krishna ram is preparing to renounce the world huh he's setting aside money and everything i don't think he ever did it but so this wasn't such an uncommon thing but taku was saying that yes if somebody really feels that tremendous urge to renounce the world so strong that they're almost carried away to do it even then they shouldn't do it unless they provide for the family first this is basically what he's saying so how long should a man feel obliged to do his duty toward his wife and children master as long as they feel pinched for food and clothing but one need not take the responsibility of a son when he is able to support himself now why not a daughter only because the in in the the culture of the day the daughter will be married and will be the responsibility of her husband it's not that there's not the same interest in a daughter if if the daughter is still living at home and the daughter won't be at that that time the daughter wouldn't go out and get a job or anything like that things were different in those days so he says but one need not take the responsibility of a son when he is able to support himself now i'm going to get in trouble here i'm going to get in trouble because we observe sometimes that sons sometimes are allowed to stay home too long it's a typically indian thing but on not only an indian thing in this country also there is so so many uh young men who are still living at home when when they're at an age when they should be out getting a job and everything maybe it's laziness maybe they've been coddled too much maybe they're spoiled a little bit but taco didn't like that idea we'll get that that's the next thing he's going to say that yeah he's going to say that so his idea was that you're not helping you're enabling them to live a very thomasic type of life this is what we call tough love say no i'm not going to support you you're old enough and strong enough and qualified that you can go out and get a job it's different if they can't nobody wants to send a son out to live on the street but he's saying don't cuddle them so he says when the young fledgling huh now you're talking about the birds learns to pick its own food its mother picks it if it comes to her for food okay so this is one thing then how long must one do one's duty so this is that same question really is it a whole lifetime another way of saying when can one enter into this uh buanaparasity stage of life become a prestin that means really retire from work the idea is not just that you're kicking the sun out to get a job the sun is supposed to support you yeah you're not kicking him out he's he's working probably whatever the father does the son will do and living at home and at some point he'll take responsibility so that the parents can be relieved of that and they can whether they go into the forest or not they can lead a life devoted to the spiritual practice so how long must one do one's duty now we'll see that krishna he always based this on spiritual growth there's not a specific time or a number of years or anything like that it depends how spiritually developed one gets so he says the blossom drops off when the fruit appears so it's not a question of when can we pick the blossom huh when can we take it off he said no you don't do it you wait until it automatically happens so he always had that that feeling the duties will drop away of of their own he gives the other example do we get it here no of uh when the daughter-in-law is pregnant that as she gets closer to giving birth to the child the mother-in-law will reduce her duties so the daughter-in-law doesn't decide oh now it's a sixth month i'll stop doing this no the divine mother will will somehow relieve the devotee of of duties it will automatically happen and then the last month nothing to do just just to prepare for the birth of the child after the child's born then simply enjoy the child afterwards you can get a job later if you want again or you don't have to so the blossom drops off when the fruit appears one doesn't have to do one's duty after the attainment of god now talk word he doesn't always give this answer because it's not simply after the attainment of god but after one reaches a certain stage in spiritual life there's anuraga stage we can say so he has these these two different tiers we know that that the first one is what he calls and the second is he uses different terms for it that at that point the duties drop off at that point the mind is spontaneously thinking of god difficult to direct the mind towards the world so here he's giving a different type of hearing after the realization of god but m's question is really that i don't want to wait till the realization of god yeah when can i do it in order to realize god then he says if a drunkard takes too much liquor he cannot retain consciousness if he takes only two two or three glasses he can go on with his work as you advance nearer and nearer to god he will reduce your activities little by little have no fear okay so now he's giving this other answer that gradually duties will fall off and the desire to perform them will fall off that duty will become it'll feel like a burden that we've done it enough let others do it we've we've fulfilled all of the obligations for the family and everything and let somebody else take over finish the few duties you have at hand and then you will have peace when the mistress of the house goes to bathe after finishing her cooking and other household duties she won't come back however you may shout after her now this is a very important statement that he makes that the performance of duties will bring a sense of peace and and fulfillment and contentment this this idea of dharma leading a dharmic life uh when we when we speak of contentment usually we think of it in terms of this very high realization when all desires are fulfilled we've realized god in everything but there's a certain contentment that comes through the fulfillment of duty that if if the end of life one looks back and says yes i raised a good family i had a career i did something beneficial to society i was never neglectful of my obligations i gave charity when i could i've arranged for education for children grandchildren done all of that i'm content it's a very wonderful thing and one doesn't have to be spiritual at all for that this can come for anybody any good person whether they do spiritual discipline when they whether they believe in god realization or not any good person dharmic person if if they've done their duties then a certain feeling contentment will come so he says finish a few duties you have at hand and then you will have peace when the mistress of the house goes to bathe after finishing her cooking and other household duties she won't come back however you may shout after her em nah now we'll get a big question sir what is the meaning of the realization of god what do you mean by god vision how does one attain it now it's a good question huh many people ask that all we hear about is realize god realize god what does it mean to realize god and we're told this is the one goal of life we're supposed to give up everything for that this is the one thing that we're striving for and and we don't know what it is so what do we do what what does god realization mean if you if you want to ask me what it means i'll have to tell you i don't know very difficult to say we have some conception we look at the the life of sriami krishna and these great souls we have some conception of what it means that we'll be free from from desire and longing and attachment and feeling of bliss this and that but we don't really know what it means taco gives a very interesting illustration that these young girls are all sitting around together and one of them is married and the others are not yet married they're a little bit younger perhaps and one of the younger ones says to her what type of pleasure do you enjoy with your husband very intimate type of question so the older one says look there's nothing that i can possibly explain to you once you're married then you'll understand so we have to say that about god realization that yes we understand that is a good thing we won't be disappointed but we're going to have to wait until we really really know what it is there's no way to to know ahead of time and we don't really have to know i remember when i took my first trip to india i had some curiosity about india i had read about it i knew about the spiritual tradition i wanted to learn about meditation or all of these things but did i really have any conception of what it would be like to go there and and live there and and everything no but as i was traveling so first uh you know you go to a foreign country and you find that oh people are speaking a language that i don't understand huh so the first thing language is different then i see the food is a little different then the climate is a little different dress is a little different appearance of people is a little different and then i get closer and closer to india you know i go into turkey and and iran afghanistan he went over land the first time and you start to see that and now getting into a culture that i've never experienced before very very different huh but something very attractive and very appealing ah people are so sweet and nice and genuine and simple and then finally you get to india and then i say ah okay so this is this is what i was thinking wondering what it would be like and then you go and and you save wonderful uh the atmosphere and and the spirituality there and everything so then you know what it's like so we may not be able to say exactly what this god realization will be but we have some indication of it that it will be something something worth striving for and we get a glimpse every once in a while of of what it feels like for the mind to ascend to a plane where it is free from all anxiety and worry and when we read the words of srama krishna we see the tremendous joy in his life that freedom fearlessness all of these things then we know uh it will be something tremendous so we we don't have to think that uh we're simply being fools we're striving for something we have no idea what it is it may not be a good thing even uh we we can have that conviction that yes this is this is worth spending a lifetime striving for and yet if somebody says do you really know what you're striving for we'll say well not exactly but i have some conception of it i have enough enough conception and enough conviction that this is what i want now taqwa is going to talk about then how to attain it so that was the other question what is the meaning of the realization of god and what do you mean by god vision so having some direct god vision is not that we're seeing god uh as if god is i'm here and god is there but having that direct experience some direct experience of god dwelling within or the real nature of the self something like that and then how does one attain it now srirami krishna is going to answer this question in a roundabout way he's going to start out by talking about different classes of of people of devotees master according to the vaisnavas the aspirants and seers of god may may be divided into different groups now when we go through the gospel of the srama krishna we'll find that there are three or four different groupings that he talks about this will be one where he talked about prabhatika sadaka siddha and siddha of the city we'll get to all of these then there will be others where he talks about and the bound soul is struggling and then there'll be some where he talks about the jivakoti and ishwarakoti and then he'll talk about the gyani the vigyani then he'll talk about even all different classifications this is important for us to realize because sometimes we think that they're very cut and dry distinctions and they're not the the one that i like best when taku talks about this the concept of aadhaar is is a receptacle the reason i like this is that there's a very smooth transition between the jivakoti and ishwarakoti and avatar just in terms of of the size of the container this was this we talked with symbolic language for how much spirituality can one hold and even among the direct disciples there was a huge difference swamiji was huge vessel that could hold a big cistern could hold a tremendous amount of water others will be will be smaller sized vessels and then there'll be some these tiny little things so it's there's more uh not such a sharp dividing line between avatara and between avatar and nishwarikothi there's a big line and then the ishwara koti jivakoti they kind of merge into one another not such a big distinction uh i mentioned was it the last class about swami sharon he was talking about ishwara koti anjivakoti both belonging to the same class he said both the ishwarakote and the jivacoti where neither one can attain to that state of nirvikalpa samadhi and remain there for a long time and come down only the avatar can so from that point of view he's not even making this big distinction ishwara koti the very highest level biggest aadhar can stay longer but even if he stays too long he'll he'll merge in that infinite roman so it's good to understand that uh these four different classes that that one merges into the other there's a gradation there they're not uh so hard and cut distinctions so he's saying according to the vaisnavas so this is just one way of looking at it god may be divided into different groups there are the parabolica that means somebody just sending foot the beginner the sata the siddha and the siddha of the siddha he was just set foot on the path maybe called a parabolica he may be called a sadhaka generally we think the spiritual seeker we can place ourselves where we're actually both and sadhakas where we're spiritual aspirants but we're all beginners in spiritual life till we get to a very high rung we're all beginners he may be called sadhaka who has for some time been practicing spiritual disciplines such as worship java meditation and the chaining of god's name and glories so really this parabata will be somebody just starting in spiritual life he may be called a siddha who has known from his inner experience that god exists this is what takara calls the gyani in a different context when he's comparing the gyani to the vignani another distinction that he makes an analogy is given in the vedanta to explain this the master of the house is asleep in a dark room someone is groping in the darkness to find him he touches the couch and says no it is not he he touches the window and says no it is not he he touches the door and says no it is not he this is known in the vedanta as the process of neti neti not this not this generally we do this with regard to the the five quotients what is the real nature of the self is it the body no it's not the body because i can observe the body if if i can observe it then it's something separate from me is it the senses is it the mind is it the intellect is the ego personality the subconscious mind all of these no i'm the witness of them so we eliminate all of them till we get to the real nature of the self so this is that illustration that is that he's giving and we can do this see we can do this and have this conviction that i am the self that doesn't mean we're god realize souls it means that we have a certain guyana we're gyanis in the sense that we're following this path of gyana yoga not gyani in the sense that we've reached the roof so tako uses it in two different ways when he talks about the gyani and the vigyani he's talking about someone who has had the highest realization but uh has not yet come back down from that so the vigyani has had it and come back down and then lives in the world with this type of knowledge so the gyani can be someone following the pith of gyani yoga and have that conviction we try to do this we try to follow this we charter martial this this analyze so that we realize uh yes now that i know this i want to stop identifying with the body i want to stop identifying with the mind so this is how it's the beginning of our spiritual practice it's an auxiliary to our spiritual practice is not the end of it at last his hand touches the master's body and he exclaims ah here he is in other words he is now conscious of the existence of the master so that doesn't mean that we know anything that's still dark out we darken the room we don't know what the master looks like is he a nice person is what anything but we know that he exists so this is not the full-blown experience we simply they're conscious of the existence of the master he has found him but he doesn't yet know him intimately that'll be the vignani we'll know that okay there's another type known as the siddha of the siddha so in this previous one that's the siddha is the gyani so he's he's attained siddha means it's someone who was attained who's a who has realized the goal who was attained to some state of perfection we can say or attainment so he's he's he's reached them he found the master but there'll be something higher than that the vigani or the siddha of the siddha there's another type known as the siddha of the siddha the supremely perfect this is the big yanis really he's just different language because he's talking about this one tradition i think it's the uh the division of childhood used to talk about this this is called sect and the bowels they also talk about this it is quite a different thing when one talks to the master intimately when one knows god very intimately through love and devotion a siddha has undoubtedly attained god but the supremely perfect has known god very intimately now the vaisnavas stress this idea this is a typically version of idea that realization of near guna brahmin is lower than the realization of saguna brahman it's an interesting concept and they they give a nice illustration that sri krishna is sitting and he sees somebody coming in from a distance and he recognizes that somebody this is a person someone is coming he recognizes that but he can't see the face that means he doesn't know who it is so that he doesn't know the name he doesn't know the personality whether friend or foe he doesn't know anything but as he comes closer and closer and closer he says ah it's my friend nada and then how happy he is to see his friend narada so they say realization of near guna brahmin is uh we're too far that we don't see the personality of god when we come closer and closer we see the personality of god the gyani says the exact opposite taco gives that illustration also why does the sky appear blue because we see it from a distance or why is the water look dark and green or even black color sometimes from a distance you go close you take the water in your hand you see there's no color at all so closer and closer we see that near gun is higher than sagan so which is higher near guna or sagona the taco says they both belong to the same reality don't separate them and make this this false distinction but the vignani will have the experience of both the gyani or the siddha this has already realized god in the near gun aspect and also understands the sagun aspect that that the same infinite absolute reality manifests as the the ishwara azerbaijan is the cause of the universe dwelling with the heart of all the yantra yaman in every other possible form but in order to realize god now this is the this is the third question remember his questions uh m said what is the meaning of the realization of god what do you mean by god's vision and then how does one attain it so now he'll say how to attain it in order to realize god one must assume one of these attitudes shanta dasya sakya vatsalya or madhur so again he's sticking with the division of a tradition we may ask well why doesn't he say anything about worshiping god his mother that was his favorite only because he sees now he's he's talking about uh according to the voice of a tradition that they'll emphasize these five different attitudes now one by one he'll explain them the serene attitude the rishis of olden times had this attitude toward god they did not desire any worldly enjoyment it is like the single-minded devotion of a wife to her husband now this isn't to be confused with the maduro that's that static longing for union between the lover and the beloved this is a different type of thing you've been married a long time there's not so much excitement there but the deep feeling of of devotion and affection and everything is there she knows that her husband is the embodiment of beauty and love a veritable madon a god of love dasia the attitude of a servant toward his master hanuman had this attitude toward rama he felt the strength of a lion when he worked for rama a wife feels this mood also she serves her husband with all her heart and soul a mother also has a little of this attitude as yashoda had toward krishna this you know the hierarchy of these different powers the reason there's a hierarchy is because the higher ones include the lower ones so the madhur is supposed to include all of them all of the others saqqiya practice all of these in in different ways this uh swami shahrande writes very clearly he went to all of these sakya the attitude of friendship friends say to one another come here and sit near me suridama and other friends sometimes fed krishna with fruit part of which they had already eaten and sometimes climbed on his shoulders rat salia the attitude of a mother toward her child this was yashoda's attitude toward krishna they all have some paradigm in the quranic tradition or this later itty hasa put on a tradition the wife too has a little of this she feeds her husband with her very life blood as it were the mother feels happy only when the child has eaten to his heart's content yeshua that would roam about with butter in her hand in order to feed krishna these can be practiced by either male or female spiritual seekers but some are are more specific so this vat salia bhava generally uh it'll be uh suggested for the women devotees because they know what it feels like to be a mother for some reason this madhur rava this can be for men they'll feel themselves to be the woman in love with krishna and asia bhava some can be anything like that but the so here not only women aren't left out sometimes we feel they're left out a little bit specifically for them and this shantan bob this looking upon god is mother anyone can do it but the typical way that it seems to be done following this wrong prasad ideal will be the this the son and the mother that seems to be and that's what tucker liked madhur the attitude of a woman toward her paramour radha had this attitude toward krishna the wife also feels it for her husband but is not as strong so this there's a swaki and parakiya and these are two different types of madhur the parakiya when it's outside of this legitimate marriage arrangement then there's something uh more intense because uh the lover has to give all sense of of of pride and reputation and everything willing to risk everything for the sake of the lover the wife also feels it for her husband this attitude includes all the other four now and we'll continue this is a nice section very much like we had in the beginning with those different questions now there'll be some more questions about the vision of god that he'll go on with that but we'll stop here for now so we're up to page 115 and we'll continue with that when we meet next and i will close with the chant is [Music] we bow our heads before srama krishna who was stainless of infinite nature whose heart melts in sympathy for his devotees who is an embodiment of the divine and the supreme lord and ever worthy of our worship om shanti shanti shanti peace peace peace be unto all thank you