Video 142

The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna by Swami Atmajnanananda (9/1/2023)

[Music] your words are like nectar bringing life to Scorch Souls they praised by Poets and remove all sin they are auspicious to hear wonderful and exalted those who spread these words throughout the world are truly giving Souls Welcome to our class on the gospel of shamak Krishna we are on the chapter festival at surrender his house and the date is Friday June 20th 1884 and we're in the middle of page 460 I'll go back a little bit shrish says aani sees everything at once yeah this was the question the question was is it possible to see both the reality and the appearance at the same time can we see the snake and the Rope at the same time uh the question was exactly does a man watching magic the M really feel compassion when he sees suffering on the performance does he feel at that time any of responsibility one thinks of compassion only when one feels responsibility isn't that so so can can we see this world as unreal like a dream and at the same time see it as the manifestation of God can we see God dwelling within all beings and at the same time see everything as the play of Maya it's is interesting question that mem asks Master aani sees everything at once God God Maya the universe and living beings he sees that Vidya Maya a Vidya Maya the universe and all living beings exist and at the same time do not exist doesn't mean that they they're just conjured up by the mind but that they have no uh independent existence that this will be and some type of appearance as long as he is conscious of I he is conscious of others too nothing whatsoever exists after he cuts through the whole thing with the sword of Gana then even his eye becomes as unreal as the magic of the magician now when shamak Krishna talks like this cutting through the whole thing when the eye becomes unreal and the state of Gana this is more or less that state of of samti when there's no awareness of anything else coming down the world comes back again it's not that the world never existed or anything and was reflecting on these words when the master said do you know what it is like it is as if there were a flower with 25 layers of petals and you cut them all with one stroke so this is where we finished last time the idea of responsibility because this was part of M's question that the uh the realized Soul does he feel at that time any sense of responsibility now this idea of respons responsibility and Duty and everything this is another one of those issues that uh has two sides to it that uh if we look at G then we can realize God through the performance of Duty and when we look at Swami there'll be times when he'll say things like oh this this midday scorching son of Duty what a horrible thing to feel that we're restrained we don't have our freedom that we we have to do uh certain obligations and things like that it takes away the sense of the freedom of the self so the sense of Duty and responsibility means some identification with the lower self but at the same time it through that sense of responsibility and performance of Duty this Karma Yoga that one can realize God so we have two sides to this whole thing now he's talking about this this feeling of obligation and if we if we look at the even Old Vic tradition this idea Arena de this it sounds like a terrible thing we come to this world we already owe money we we haven't done anything but we have a debt to pay that sounds like a terrible thing from that point of view from the other point of view that we feel a sense of gratitude we want to give back so it's this punch ofina idea is a nice idea so the idea of responsibility goodness gracious men like shankaracharya and Shuka kept the ego of knowledge so this this sense of eye will be there even for the god relay soul and if that sense of eye is there then the sense of right and wrong and and obligations and responsibilities all of that will follow along with that the sense of eye that comes back and the sense of eye that uh the ordinary person has are completely different we we have a sliding scale our sense of eye uh is is constantly changing depending on our level of spirituality or our sense of identification when when we talk about the ripe ego uh from the point of view of of spiritual practice this is something that we're trying to impose upon ourselves ISU uses that expression that we do it more or less successfully sometimes it's it's almost a joke when we say that yes I'm just a child of God servant of God whatever you do is God's Will and we do whatever we want it's not a very realistic idea other times we really do it very thoughtfully so this this ripe ego that we use at the time of sad is is a work in progress The Ripe ego after realization is a different thing then uh that has no sense of bondage to it that the vigani there's no sense in which that a eye can bind that sent of eye uh can can keep the mind L down tied to the world that there can be any attachment can do any any harm that's completely gone so when Shak Krishna he's talking about Shankar and Shuka he can talk about himself he can talk about any of these these God realiz Souls Jas who live in the world specifically me mentioning Shankar generally when Shak Krishna talks about the ego of the vi that he'll mention shankara who kept this ego of knowledge and he'll mention sometimes Chan this the eego of devotion or sh and everything will'll give these these two different options so even if if the experience of of Nadi is the same for everyone let's let work on that assumption because it's there's nothing particular about it but before going up into that that'll depend on our spiritual path coming back down again will depend upon our spiritual nature and and our spiritual attitude and everything so even even if the experience is the same because it's something that transcends experience there's no experience at that time then coming back the ego will take the shape of the uh nature of the sodaka on the way up so we can't expect someone who follows the path of Gana after God realization uh to be singing and dancing and we can can't expect uh someone who's uh failed with devotion follows the path of devotion uh to come back and be everything is is uh 1980 and uh so and so that it'll depend on the the individual nature of really of the mind of the indiv individual who has God realization whatever there some Scots are but there won't be any bondage to it so this ego of knowledge that Shankar could ever kept that uh sometimes TAA says it's the appearance of the ego or is this like a stick or a rope on water there's it like a mark on water but there's an appearance it looks like it like the burnt string it looks like a string or the the golden sword it looks like a steel sword but uh it can't be used in in battle you can't fight with it so men like shankara and Shuka kept the ego of knowledge it is not for man to show compassion but for God now this is sometimes an issue of that's a little confusing what what does taka really feel about da da means compassion and uh uh again there's a scale of things there's a scale that if we want to compare DIA to Maya right then da is good is much better if if Maya means attachment to uh near and dear ones our own family members our own clan members whatever then Dia means that same love and and attachment for everybody so then it's a good thing but if we're comparing a DIA to something higher to having love for all beings DIA has a little bit of a sense of uh can have a sense of superiority that we feel compassion so Tak who are you to feel compassion this this was one incident that took place that left a very deep impression on Swami G then lendra when taku was talking about this namii and say and J compassion for living beings and then takar he went into a mood he goes into these moods sometimes and then came down and then he started berating this idea of compassion yeah who are you you like little ants crawling on the ground who are you to show compassion to anybody and they said but not compassion but love something higher so so Swami G uh after they left the room he was there probably I thing sh it sh some any some of the other deities were there and Swami said did you hear what takar said they said what did he say did you hear that wonderful thing that he said he said so many wonderful things they were they didn't leave any impression on anybody but Narendra and then he said no this this uh uh this wonderful idea of uh uh this dght this Oneness putting it into in practice and and having real love and compassion for all beings that this is the idea if I get a chance I'll spread this throughout the world soam J Narendra he was so impressed with that idea so one feels compassion as long as one has the ego of knowledge so this compassion that one has with the ego of knowledge this is a good thing it's a good thing we compassion what does it mean that we feel for other people doesn't mean that we pity other people then it's a then we can understand there's some ego behind it but if we look at this DIA from the highest point of view then it's a good thing we want we all want to be compassionate people we want to feel for other people we don't want to be cold and hard-hearted people if that's the opposite of of Dia that we don't want if the opposite is Maya then this compassion is a much better thing but talk is emphasizing this idea that uh it's a privilege to serve other people that that we should do it as a type of worship that it should be based on prma not based on da it should be based on love and that we should feel gratitude for those that we were able to help so Swami took all of these ideas and this became practical vant for him this was his karma yoga is really practical vant it's different from ordinarily Karma Yoga it's a preliminary yoga that we use purify the heart for no it was it was make turn your uh relationship with others into a type of worshipful relationship and feel gratitude and feel uh privileged to be able to serve other people so everything Swami G got we'll hear about this during the retreat but everything Swami G got was from Shi Krishna we we find little things that sound different sometimes but really if you if you go a little beneath the surface you'll find that everything even even holy mother sometimes will say that how taku talks about no one is your very own and holy mother is no the whole world is your own we'll see taka himself says that no one is a stranger so we have to look at all the different times that he says things he has his own reason for saying things at different times we we know that so one feels compassion as long as one has the ego of knowledge and it is God himself who has become the ego of knowledge so this is this is the only way that the vigani can live in the world this this ego we sometimes think of this ego only in terms of Maya only in terms of bondage only in terms of ignorance and false identification but the ego simply means how we look upon ourselves and if we know that we're the self or we know that we're a child of God then uh this ego sense of ego is in tune with with reality when the Sens of ego has everything to do with superficial external things then it's based on the ignorance and false conception of things so taka very often says is the Divine mother herself who gives this feeling of responsibility not for the God realiz so the ordinary person suppose we start going around saying everything is your will mother I don't do anything I do whatever you make me do and then we we do all sorts of nonsense then uh it it'll be just a complete travesty of of the teaching so taka says Divine mother herself will keep this feeling of ey so that we take responsibility for what we do and without this feeling of eye we don't won't take responsibility for Spiritual practice even that we have to feel that we're in a state of bondage first before we will strive to get out of it we have to feel that we're responsible for our action if we reach a stage higher on when we see that was all a play okay it's a play but we have to go through it we have to go through it the bird on the Mast he could just say that I'll just stay on the MK perfect surrender it doesn't work he has to fly in every direction he has to put forth all effort and flying in every direction realizes that uh self-effort has a limitation but the shanak doesn't come without this this uh exhausting every effort so there's a purpose for that it's it's not just flapping our wings our spiritual practice we shouldn't think that that it's just to prove that we can't do it on ourselves it's not just that that while we're proving that we're also transforming ourselves we should at least feel that and try to do that so this is these are all very important ideas let me read this small paragraph again the idea of responsibility goodness gracious men like Shankar and UGA kept the ego of knowledge it is not for man to show compassion but for God so this is a way of uh teaching humility we don't have to get too philosophical about it we can simply have a little humility and not feel that oh how wonderful I am that I'm able to help so many people and everything so at least that much we can understand it is not for men to show compassion but for God when one feels compassion as long as one has the ego of knowledge so this feeling of compassion is not wholly based on ignorance it can be the feeling of Oneness with other people also and it is God himself who has become the ego of knowledge very hard to understand what he means here who has become the ego of knowledge we can say at the very least who's placed that feeling within us you may feel a thousand times that it is all magic but were still under the control of the Divine mother so that means that uh we we reason and we can come to the conclusion that this is all Maya and everything but we we haven't transcended that sense of false identification and we're still within this realm of Maya that me under the control of the Divine mother you cannot Escape her you were not free now what does Swami tell us every moment tell yourself I'm free I'm free I'm free I'm free Free they're both true for if if I if I know I'm the self self is not under any type of bondage at all but if I'm realistic and know that I am a slave to the senses I'm a slave to my desires and everything then I say no I'm not free what is this Maya it's the passions it's the desire and the some Scott is I know I'm not free on that level philosophically I know that I'm free as the self the self can't be bound by anything is beyond everything so both are true at the same time but from a different angle that's all you are not free you must do what she makes you do now again if we take this as whatever I do is the will of the Divine mother then then we'll get in trouble if we take this that that yes I'm under the bondage of Maya which means that I'm not free to act uh very intelligently that I act according to uh these these desires and these SS Scots and the passions and everything and then then we can say that uh we're under the or within the jurisdiction of Maya so that that Maya here doesn't have to mean will of the Divine mother it can simply mean that we're not under control of ourselves that the mind is is still uh in the very unripe state where our decisions are all colored by our desires and colored by these old Impressions and everything and doesn't allow us to make very clear sharp Intelligent Decisions I mained bryana only when it is given to him by the adya so we can we can do everything to prepare ourselves for this this very high experience we can try to remove all of this false ideas through the V we can try to purify the heart get rid of all smallness and weakness and and meanness and everything and prepare everything but that flash will come that there won't be some sense of oh I achieved something it'll it'll be that feeling that it just comes to us that because this ego has to disappear first so who is there to say I did it yes I attained from who will say that if somebody says that yes I've realized the self they can say it of course if IFH if if if that sense of eye is really the real sense of eye but if it's this ego sense then we'll know that uh something is wrong there even even so I am he even this is is is not quite the highest type of Truth highest type of Truth is God alone exists there's no a at all that the ego dies completely then it comes back again in this other form so the soam is is really the ego of knowledge but that state where the ego was gone then mother alone exists nothing else not not even the child at that point mother alone then again the same shaki another name for the Divine mother Primal energy we can say with the help of thei God Sports as an Incarnation God through his shaki incarnates himself as man so Krishna he uses different language sometimes uh we like to make philosophical distinctions I mentioned many times this idea that Brahman has become everything and then other times abaki has become everything then every sometimes the Divine mother sometimes rman sometimes is he'll use different language because he's not a uh professor in a college that you have to know this means this and this means that simply means this is a manifestation of the Divine but he he will say that this Avatar is a manifestation of shaki the divine power this is that power because it really this near Brahman it doesn't do anything it doesn't manifest it's together with the shaki that it manifest as the whole universe but in a special way as the Avatar so with the help of the adya Shi God Sports as an Incarnation God through his Shi incarnates himself as man then alone does it become possible for the Incarnation to carry on his work or her work we might say everything is due to the shaki of the Divine mother so this is this is the way taku explains that this concept of Brahman as actionless is an incomplete concept if we think of Brahman is only impersonal absolute he says we have to look at both sides that that which is uh near is also saguna that which is Nar is also sakar that which is impersonal is also personal God that these different aspects and if we only take one aspect then we're not getting the full weight he uses that type of of language in different places everything is due to the shaki of the Divine mother so this this is the firm belief of those we can say mother worshippers the shakas they won't talk so much about this deluding power of of Maya they'll talk about this power of brahmin's power to to manifest and enter into everything the deluding power is when it comes to us we're under some type of delusion we're born with this this automatic false identification with everything but this Shu the idea gives a little bit more of a realistic interpretation of creation this the status of this external Universe uh is is something that uh is a little bit speculative a little bit something for the philosophers to debate upon and it's something that uh we we experience only as an object of our experience we never come into contact with whatever is really out there directly everything goes through senses through the mind and everything and so there are all different theories all different schools even schools of that will give different levels of reality to this external Universe from from go who will say that is it never came into existence at allat to uh others who will say yes it's a creation of God that it's our doctor sharar Dr sharar was a character he said a lot of really stupid things and we know that but he made a very nice statement he said how can I believe that God is real and his creation is not real also and then he said that uh God how did he put it something about God from the mental side creates the human beings from the physical side creates this universe something like that anyhow this is this if we want to make any distinction between these different schools then it'll be a lot of it will be what is the status of this external universe and for Shak Krishna is a bit of a dead end question he he doesn't emphasize it very much at the most he'll say that Giani likes to look upon this world as a dream and sometimes he'll say that my attitude is different I like to look upon it as the awar as as the glory of the Divine mother manifestation glorious manifestation of the Divine mother and sometimes he'll say I don't like to look upon this world as unreal like a dream he doesn't say that it's false he doesn't say that that's not a legitimate point of view but just his own personality is like that that he enjoys seeing everything manifestation of and as a Mystic he sees everything as a manifestation of divinity that was a direct vision for him others say shank afterwards we don't know exactly how we saw everything maybe things were dreamlike for him and that's perfectly fine for viani of the of the philosophical nature we go still we're back in the mind it's still a human mind transformed perfected somehow but still a human mind yeah view of s philosophy yeah the actually this this the Shaka School uh is based on a lot of this Pur the idea of this Union of the male and female aspects they're very similar they're very similar the only real difference is son we know uh doesn't want to tie the two of them together too too closely they're very content to say that they are two separate categories that nature is of course dependent upon this purusa but still it has its own type of Independence otherwise there's a great deal of similarity that Tak talks about everything is the Union of the male and female aspects so yeah we not in general who punish also freely borrow from Sania philosophy there's such a a nice interplay between between even in the upanishads with gas and other things there we see that they're not such separate independent schools only at the very end at the very end where vant will will say yeah this this nature is really a projection of Brahman or superos of something like that where s is willing to say it's a it has its own type of Independence when anyone asked the former manager of the temple Garden a great favor the manager would say come after two or three days he must ask the proprietor's permission so all under this wayway of of of the Divine mother that means that at any moment if she likes uh we can go back into confusion we can forget our our nature somebody look at to says perfected Soul everything else but the moment of Theo he tries to to get some of this sacred fire to light his his tobacco he goes into a rage this the Wy so t starts laughing he said just now you're telling me everything is unreal like a dream and just because he went through the fire you go into such a rage so this this this mind anything Divine mother we every second we have to pray for grace Divine mother that we we don't let this ego take over and and this pride and arrogance and passions and all of that so where where is uh is that great uh Independence and self-control that we have only as the otman and uh if if we if we like to think of ourselves as a servant of God there's certain strength that comes from that but the strength only comes from from the master we get fire then where is where is our pride that yes I serve the president I a big big shot and everything then what talk says he gets kicked out you can't even take your he said say your worthless might go chest with you God will incarnate himself as k at the end of the kuga now this is a very traditional Panic idea withar and everything he will be born as the son of a bramman suddenly and unexpectedly a sword and horse will come to him returned to the Master's room after watching the evening worship in the temples so Adar was here M was here who else was here Andel talking mostly to them this Adar is interesting how quickly he became part of this Inner Circle almost as soon as he met Shak Krishna that he started coming on a very regular basis and taka went to his house so many times and then died very quickly so the interesting part of that Leela with her and uh Tak he must have known that Ador didn't have time to waste looking for this big position he had the opportunity to get a big job thousand rupees a month something unheard of in those days he was already Deputy magistrate made a lot of money we wonder why is was so often telling him why are you going here and there and everything they trying to get this big job and he's arguing back and forth won't anybody tried to get a better job so they go back and forth but uh taker must have known that that must have been this is my feeling that that was a little bit behind all of this that uh you don't realize you don't have so much time left and we should all understand that none of us have that much time left even if it's 50 years it's not that much time left to waste on things that are not important so uh he really tried to inspire other as far as possible uh to strive for some type of realization and then he died before tuer died I think within a year or something yeah was horseback riding and fell off the hor it's funny thing Master to Adar and the others buhuan was here and brought me 25 Bombay mangoes and some sweets she said to me will you eat a mango I said my stomach is heavy today and to tell you the truth I'm feeling uncomfortable after eating a few of the sweets bhan moini was a nurse who used to visit shamak Krishna now and then the master could not eat the food offerings of everyone especially of Physicians and nurses yeah now some of our best deputes are Physicians and nurses they shouldn't they shouldn't take this yeah and some of the most selfless people that we know of or Physicians and nurses this was suggest that mostly this idea that making money at the suffering of other people tuu didn't didn't feel very comfortable with that type of idea but he used to say that those who out of out of love for others will serve them that way that that was a good thing of course so any doctors and nurses out there don't take this to personally it was because they accepted money from the sick in spite of the suffering of these people they had to this was their job and for some of them it's also they're born into it byas in others this is kind of cast they're expected to be doctors Master Ken's mother sisters and other relatives came here you remember uh earlier that he was in sender's house and I think it was GIS somebody said to him you better go quickly that Kesha's mother will come because Kesha had just passed away recently and taka said don't rush me I can't go so quickly because he was concerned about this Surendra his feelings could get hurt very easily and also loved him very much and he said they'll be okay there all get this so he he went back there now he's saying I had to dance a little he's making light of it but he actually had great respect that uh queso's mother was a great deuty and kab came from a a very devot devotional vava family and uh a little bit surprising that he followed the path that he did which was so westernized and everything but uh takur appreciated the family and and she was very devoted to takur also what else could I do they were so grief stricken so this is the end of the chapter festival at sender's house next is chapter 24 pit shash Wednesday June 25th 1884 it was the day of the ratra the car FES of the Hindus at isan's invitation Sak Krishna went to his house in Kolkata for some time the master had had a desire to meet pundit shadad tar chamini who had been staying with one of ishan's neighbors so it was decided that he would visit the pundit in the afternoon a few deities including hazra accompanied the master to isan's house ishan ishan is another great deuty of Shak Krishna who isan and both of them if we don't know the backstory we think that takur is not so impressed isan is the one who gets the worst possible scolding and one of the best teachings that we have a whole chapter on advice to ishan but takar loved him very much he was very devoted to sh he was a very very generous man Swami Narendra was was uh frequent visitor to the to the household he was friend good friends a classmate of one of the sons and it was a good family and T also went to his house very often so isan had invited one of two Brahman Scholars and a devot who followed the tantric method of worship sish and ishan's other Sons were also present the master noticed that the tantric worshipper had a Vermilion mark on his forehead and smilingly said I see he is branded yeah s ramak Krishna wasn't so fond of external science and things if it's making too much of a show of course many of these things were just traditional family traditions and everything in uh in the South India especially this uh Al singer that he had the big marks and from the Roman tradition H and anyhow Swami G said to some of the western disciples you don't judge these people you may think oh it look so silly and awful and everything don't judge he was very strong about that this is their tradition you have to respect that tradition after a while M and Narendra arrived and bowed before Krishna the master had previously informed him that he would be at ishan's house that means he wants him there partly to record everything especially the first meeting between this uh pit shash the master joked about the delay in serving their meal one of the scholars quoted a sanscrit verse about the anxiety created in people's minds by the pangs of hunger proceeding to explain the verse he said the study of philosophy is indeed edifying but poetry is more fascinating than philosophy people listening to good poems think of the study of philosophy lant niaya s and so forth as dry and insipid again music is more attractive than poetry music melts even a Heart of Stone but a beautiful woman has an even greater attraction for a man's heart than music such a woman passing by diverts a man's attention from both poetry and music but when a man feels the pangs of hunger everything else poetry music and woman appears as of no consequence thus hunger is the most arresting thing the master remarked with a smile the pundit is witty soon Narendra began to sing a few moments later the master went upstairs for a little rest now how is it possible that ended is singing and RAM Krishna leaves very rare maybe I don't know we have other occasions where that happens this was the period when nendra uh was was going in search of work and uh whole mind was on his family and there the suffering and and not getting food he maybe starving and everything and this could sense all of these things every once in a while he would have some sense that that his whole heart and soul wasn't in the singing that he was thinking about these other things and later he'll say it was wrong of us to leave when he was singing because normally he won't do that but every once in a while there's another place where he says to Narendra your singing sounded to me a little bit little tasteless little insipid something like that yeah and nendra was embarrassed it' be the same thing because of he was going through so much so a few minutes later the master went upstairs for a little rest M and Shish accompanied him M introduced sh to the master saying he is a scholar and a man of peaceful nature we were fellow students in our Boyhood now he is is a lawyer okay so we know about doctors and nurses yeah he had a lower opinion even of lawyers yeah because uh what do you do if your client is guilty and you have to you know defend the client and everything try to make it look like he's not so and tuor most most of the experience that they all had with lawyers was lawsuits people were crazy for lawsuits in those days that uh uh uh tak's own father he had had to leave his own village home and everything because of different lawsuits and and charging people with false testimony and all sorts of things Master it is a Pity that such a man should practice law and yes sir it was a mistake on his part now again lawyers don't take this too personally many lawyers do very very good work they help people who who need someone to defend them and everything yeah master I know a few lawyers one of them shows me great respect he is a straightforward man so some are good what is your idea about the most essential thing in life now we know Tako used to uh get questions but also ask questions he he'll judge the character and and the spiritual stature of the suies by asking the question and also he has a curiosity we've seen that so many times a curiosity of how these strange creatures who live in Kata think that coming from the village this was a whole new thing with the brahos what a strange experience for him to see these people worshiping as if they're in a church and everything and uh with the sermons like the preachers do and everything so I think part of this is that just this this man is Western educated he's a lawyer I wonder how he thinks about these things but also to see is he really serious person and can he benefit by krish's company God exists and he alone does everything so he's obviously man of great faith but the attributes we ascribe to him are not the right ones how can a man conceive of him his nature is infinite so this was a common the name of the brahos especially and even nendra that was he said that so many times that God is infinite how can he be separated into this how can be there be more uh manifestation in one person than another that you talk about this Avatar that God dwells equally within all beings the same type of reasoning now what he says we can't really argue about it it's being talker himself will say that uh uh our understanding of God is a lot of it is subjective the way we look upon things and everything so the attributes we ascribe to him are not the right ones so look at how many Traditions uh ascribe jealousness to God my God is a jealous God we'll read this in the Old Testament that means that he'll fight on our side and make sure that we're Victorious against all these these enemies and so we ascribe different things that are based on our own human weakness and everything Master now so this is what what takar does he encourages people along their their own line and he makes little Corrections he does both sometimes especially we see with v tradition that he'll praise them for the love of of the name of God and at the same time he'll he'll scold them a little bit for being too one-sided or too Orthodox something like that so here he'll try to uh soften his position a little bit Master what need is there of your counting the number of trees and branches in an orchard you've come to the orchard to eat mangoes do that and be happy yeah so suppose we want to meet somebody and we say but I don't really know too much about this person talk with his advice meet him first yeah why uh spend all of your time trying to figure out uh is he a good person a bad person does he have this quality that quality and meet the person that's all so this that was his his attitude to it otherwise we we won't take that Pune we won't take the plunge this is Buddhist tradition that who shot the AR Arrow into us don't worry about all that get a doctor to pull it out that's the main thing so you've come to the orchard to eat mangoes do that and be happy the aim of human birth is to love God realize that love and be at peace suppose you have entered a Tavern for a drink is it necessary for you to know how many gallons of wine there are in the tavern one glass is enough for you what need is there of you knowing the infinite qualities of God even another person how much do we know of another person even people that we live with h how much do we know really that uh one day we get in an argument and they say something and we say my God I thought I knew you how are you capable of saying something like that so this uh there's a tremendous limit to the ability to to know everything about anything and we think about God this is something was so far beyond that there's nothing visible nothing experienceable for most people and so how do we know anything about that what need is there you're knowing the infinite qualities of God you may discriminate for millions of years about God's attributes and still you will not know them the master remained silent a few minutes a Brahman pundit came into the room Master to m there is no substance whatsoever in the worldly life okay now very often uh we have these philosophical discussions about what what has substance and what doesn't us this this type of thing uh this is a different type of discussion this means that this this ordinary life of trying to fulfill desires and and to get people to praise us for what we do and everything what what lasting and deep satisfaction comes from that type of life so this is this is what he's talking about here there's no substance whatsoever in the worldly life the members of isan's family are good so he has some piece here suppose his sons had been lwed disobedient and addicted to drink and other vices then there would have been no end to his troubles when very seldom comes across such a religious family in which all the members are devoted to God so he's meeting the streets for the first time but he has some familiarity with the with the family I don't know how exactly uh when he first meets the isan and everything I've seen only two or three such families yeah you look at the other families even look at Swami's families all the relatives that turned against them and threw threw them out of the house and everything and and how many the the young boys who came to Shak Krishna their parents were so dead against uh sending him there and everything and and M how unhappy he was at home with his brothers and even his father and everything so one very seldom comes across such a religious family in which all the members are devoted to God B around most was one such family and uh Swami prman babura he also came from a very devoted family parents mother especially devoted generally one finds quarrels misunderstanding jealousy and friction besides there are disease grief and poverty in the world seeing this condition I pray to the Divine mother oh mother turn my mind at once from the world to God look at narender his troubles his father is dead and the members of his family are starving he's been trying his utmost to secure a position but he has not yet found one just see unsettled his mind is so now we get some understanding of of why he left the ENT singing and he has some sense that the mind is very much unsettled to him you used to come to dakinis very frequently but why have you become such a rare visitor now he's poking him perhaps you have become particularly friendly with your wife is it true why should I Blame You the influence of woman in Gold lust and gold is everywhere therefore I pray oh Divine mother please don't make me a worldly man if I am to be born again in a human body of course no need for him to make that prayer it won't happen Brahman scholar now uh this uh householder stage of Life gasa this gasa stage of life is praised in the scriptures this is the stage where we fulfill our duties in society is a wonderful thing everybody agrees it's a wonderful thing and uh these pundits will especially say how the scriptures praise it and everything they'll get very offended when takar talks too much about this renunciation so Brahman scholar why should you say that sir the scriptures extol the life of a householder Master yes that is true so uh we we can't expect uh everybody to from from this uh student stage to just say no I have no interest in the world I'll renounce it first the world the world will come to an end so taka says the Divine mother's play that will stop so this this uh stage of Life Theory is very important and the householder is the one who represents the fabric of society that uh with all the different things that have to be done different occupations that have to be done they has to be the householders they're the ones who have to raise children who can become sasin sasin also and can can lead a spiritual type of life so they play a very very important role probably the most important role one becomes a sadu then it's mostly for his or her own benefit at that point but the household Earth for all of society and keeping family together and Society together so he says yes it is true but it is very difficult to live the true life of a house householder so that means that uh having almost no self-interest in anything there's a very high standard for the real uh Pious householder that everything is done is an offering everything is done is service nothing is done with any selfish motive in mind a very high bar for the for the real householder so uh it is very difficult to lead the true life of a householder to him how wrong of us now he's talking about the singing they are singing especially in nendra and we have left the room about 4:00 in the afternoon the master left in a carriage for the house where pundit Shard was staying as soon as shamak Krishna this is all in that area actually where sh ramak Krishna lived with his Elder brother earlier near M's House near this uh uh the sides K Tempo that same that same neighborhood as soon as Rak Krishna got into the carriage he went into samti his physical frame was very tender as a result of the austerities he had undergone during the long years of his spiritual discipline and his constant absorption in God Consciousness the master would suffer from the slightest physical discomfort and even from the vibration of worldly thoughts around him once kab chanden had said that Shak Krishna Christ and shait belong to a delicate species of humanity that should be kept in a glass case and protected from the vulgar contact of the world it was the rainy season and a fine drizzle of rain had made the rode money the sky was overcast the devotes followed the carriage on foot as the carriage stopped in front of the house the host and his relatives welcomed the master and took him upstairs to the drawing room there the master met the pundit pundit shashidhar a man of fair complexion and no longer young had a stringing of rudraa beads around his neck he was one of the renowned Sanskrit Scholars of his time a pillar of Orthodox Hinduism which had reasserted itself after the first wave of Christianity and Western culture had passed over Hindu Society his clear exposition of the Hindu scriptures his ringing sincerity and his stirring eloquence had brought back a large number of the educated young Hindus to Ben of Bengal to the religion of their forefathers the pundit saluted the master with reverence nendra raal Ram Haz and M who had come with the master seated themselves in the room as near the master as they could anxious not to miss one of his words okay then we'll start after this with tak's conversation with pundit shashar so we're going to stop here at the middle of page 464 [Music] we bow our heads before s raak Krishna who was stainless of infinite nature whose heart melts in sympathy for his devotes who is an embodiment of the Divine and the Supreme Lord and ever worthy of our worship om shant Shanty Shanty peace peace peace be