Video 129

The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna read by Swami Atmajnanananda (04/28/2023)

[Music] foreign [Music] Souls they're praised by Poets and remove all sin they are auspicious to hear wonderful and exalted those who spread these words throughout the world are true giving Souls Welcome to our class on the gospel of srama Krishna we are starting a new chapter chapter 21. and it is Saturday April 5th 1884. it was about eight o'clock in the morning when M arrived at the temple garden and found SRI ramakrishna Seated on the small couch in his room we the word couch doesn't make sense to us huh here we think it's sofa as a couch is he a two wooden beds wooden Cuts something like that one bigger one on the side the other smaller one and the one closer to the door he used to sit there yeah I've always found that funny other thing I found funny was all these things about uh the roof picture the slanted roof people sitting on the roof dancing on the roof and clay another story so uh they found drama Krishna Seated on the small couch in his room a few devotees were sitting on the floor the master was talking to them ran Krishna Mukherjee was there the he'll be referred to that way lovingly affectionately prawn Krishna belonged to an aristocratic family and lived in the northern part of Calcutta he held a high post and an English business firm he was very much devoted to Sri ramakrishna and the householder derived great pleasure from the study of it onto philosophy so we've seen several classes of of devotees we have the brahmos we have the young boys and we have a whole bunch of uh a little bit older devotees who like this this Path of Knowledge is is one of them they'd like to discuss all this these high uh at the white of it until philosophy and everything he was a freakman visitor at the temple Garden once he invited the master to his house in Calcutta and held their religious Festival every day early in the morning he bathed in the holy water of the Ganges whenever it was convenient he would come to the Chinese war in a hired country boat that morning he had hired a boat and invited em to accompany him to dakshineswar the boat had hardly left Shore when the river became choppy M had become frightened and begged pran Krishna to put him back on land in spite of assurances M had kept saying You must put me ashore I shall walk to daks and his work and so M came on foot and found ramakrishna talking to prant Krishna and the others Master to pran Krishna but there's a greater manifestation of God in man you may ask how is it possible possible for God to be incarnated as a man who suffers from Hunger thirst and other traits of an embodied being and perhaps also from disease and grief the reply is even Brahman weeps entrapped in the snare of the five elements the little Bengali saying takur liked he used to repeat this very often but this is a question that was raised many many times especially by the brahmos and the Western educated people those who had this even even swamiji that God dwells equally within all beings within the hearts of all then how can there be greater manifestation that one person in another person even our vidyasagar he will have raised that question with sarama Krishna they didn't like this idea greater manifestation now we may say that they have a point that God is equally indwelling within all beings but this this question of manifestation is to what degree is that Divinity visible to what degree is it covered over by this Rajesh and Thomas and and uh ignorance and passions all of the things that don't allow it to be seen so it's it's a kind of a question of like the the sun that's Shining that of course the sun is always shining equally but some days are cloudy days and we we don't get to see it so first ramakrishna he meddles little distinction between uh the presence of the Divine and and the Shakti sometimes began and Shakti would use that language that uh the water and every wave is the same water but the power of the wave will be different so he sometimes he would speak in in that type of language so here uh we have really two slightly different but of course related to issues one is uh this difference from one person to another person the degree to which that Divinity is is Manifest depending upon the coverings which means most of the mind to what extent the mind and the passions and everything or covering it over second thing is with regard to what we call the avatar and uh with the Avatar the difference is uh in Shakti to a very large degree but we have other differences also difference with regard to the nature of the birth with regard to Karma with regard to the mission in life with regard to being ever perfect a lot of other distinctions that are made but uh in general the manifestation of power is greater so this is this will be a distinction also between God realized souls and these very special Souls this that come with a special mission in life it will be tremendous power and this power is not always manifest during their lifetime it's very interesting that shivrama Krishna says that this is one of the characteristics of the avatar is that he's not really appreciated during his lifetime or only a handful of people can appreciate the Avatar but later later that power becomes more and more manifest in the world he gives a nice illustration if the small boat is going down a river it can go very close to the shore and there'll be a little awake afterwards in these waves will lap up on on the shore even while the the boat is still visible if it's a big steamship it has to go right in the middle it has to go as far from the from the either Shore as possible go right in the middle it'll go fast and it'll go far by the time these waves come they're huge and they may even break off some of the land by the time they come the boat is out of sight so very often we have to wait 100 years 200 years before we see the power of uh of the plateau of Christ that it becomes greater and greater so Taco said this is one of the manifestations of one of the characteristics but the other is the humanness and this is why we don't always recognize talk where it emphasizes this the humanness and always refers to uh this Sita and Rama the drama even Rama wept for Sita the fact that the Avatar has all of the human qualities also the human heart human emotions human personality human incentive humor all of all of the things that we find in other people only with none of the bondage and none of the uh none of the Venom behind anything everything is is sweet and pure but that Maya has to be there even for the avatar only the Avatar they say chooses this Maya to take birth that way and the rest of us were under the spell of it but there has to be some identification body mind and everything in order for them to live in the world even the Avatar so takur always emphasized that point as well so let me read this again but there is a greater manifestation see this is probably a continuation of a conversation he had already started with prawn Krishna but m is the beginning of it because he had to come on foot so it's just but there's a greater manifestation of God in man you may ask how is it possible for God to be incarnated as a man who suffers from a hunger thirst and the other traits of an embodied being and perhaps also from disease and grief now when srama Krishna got his cancer and throat he said yeah this will be good that now all of those who think that oh how can he be a holy man getting sick and everything though they'll drift away the real Inner Circle will remain with me so because there were people who were thought that how Canadian Avatar and get a disease like an ordinary person and then there were all theories that he's doing this for special purpose that after they're done he'll cure himself or that he could cure himself at any time all different theories with her said his theories Ram had his theories they all had their different theories at the time but ramakrishna uh seem to prefer this idea that is also a human body and it will have it this has to die somehow it'll have its it is not because of Any karma that's the difference though not because of Any Karma that observation it will be different for the the Avatar how it happens we don't know so he says the replies even Brahman weeps entrapped in the snare of the five elements so even Brahman weaves that means when uh when the Lord incarnates that he or she will take on all the qualities of the ordinary human being and can we ensnared it entrapped in the snare of the five elements so that means the same situation that we all find ourselves in don't you know how Rama had to weeps stricken with grief or Sita further it is said that the Lord incarnated himself as a sow in order to kill the demon hiranyaksha hiranyaksha was eventually killed but God would not go back to his Abode in heaven he enjoyed his sow's life he had given birth to seven several young ones and was rather happy with them that God said among themselves what does this mean the Lord doesn't care to return to heaven and this of course this is a parantic point of view we don't really believe when the Avatar comes there's no God anywhere else it is completely absorbed in that that is still that same problem it's it's functioning as always but anyhow this is a quranic view that uh Vishnu is no longer in heaven because he's incarnated and now he's in the form of this bore this uh bruh what does this mean the Lord doesn't care to return to Heaven they all went to Shiva and laid the matter before him she became down and urged the Lord to leave his cell body and return to heaven but the sow only circled her young ones left then she would destroyed this owl body with his Trident and the Lord came out laughing aloud and went back to his own abode this is only to show that in order to take human birth there has to be some some element of Maya that can can be just kind of Blown Away it's not such a a big thing these are always the questions these not just the Avatar in The Descendants these are swamiji and Raja Marathi and others why did they have to undergo so much of spiritual practice uh why did they have so many doubts uh how does that whole thing work if there weren't perfect they're going perfect they also have a little bit of Maya that they have to shake off and sometimes they have to do a lot of of sadhana to shake it off and yes we don't know set an example to show what's necessary in spiritual life we we sometimes come up with our own theories because we don't know the real answers why it's different for them just touch them and look at them or something they'd have that experience life immediately after sadhana period and mother showed him explicitly that his sadhana was not for himself but for the world yeah for for I think it's true of all of them yeah that uh especially in the case of the avatar that they have to they have to set an example they have to sit they have to make the mold because of the caucus idea they had to make the mold so that we we know what what we have to do in spiritual life and they have to do tremendous practice tremendous austerities sometimes I read another interesting thing the other day again Swami production he was saying with the with the Incarnation of the avatar that this idea of of following what does it mean to follow the Avatar he says do whatever the Avatar whatever instructions are there but we shouldn't think that we can imitate the Avatar and everything that he does or she does that there will be certain things that only they can do that are not meant for us and we have to see the essence of it or uh translated into our own language so that we can follow it but the teachings that they leave so we have the example uh that we can follow and then we have the example that we just are in awe of that we know is impossible for us and uh and maybe an example for one person and not for us that's the other possibility um [Music] does the avatar ever ever feel any bondage yeah you know these these are questions uh there'll be some people who say the avatars are always aware of his divine nature and uh there'll be others who will say no this little Maya has to be there and they have to do some spiritual practice and everything uh in the case of sravakrishna and gradually Came Upon I think it gradually can be started to think especially after the brahmani had convened that a group of pundits and everything that that yeah something special about him and that conviction grew through other experiences probably that he was in an avatar before that I don't think it was ever questioned in his mind why would he even think about something like that he used to mention that somehow sister worshiped him and when he was very young this this uh who was it you know shankari or something he worshiped him and but that wasn't so uncommon huh to to see a small child So Divine in everything to try to offer some type of worship in those days it wasn't such evidence so I did he ever feel bondage I don't think he ever felt bondage he felt longing to have that vision of God that realization of God I don't think it was ever that of this Maya is terrible that I I feel this need to shake off this this terrible bondage of ignorance it doesn't seem to be that doesn't seem to be the inspiration behind his spiritual practice what was that inspiration who was this this Divine mother that I'm worshiping is she real can she be experienced I have to know that so it seems a little different in the case of Buddha what was that inspiration there must be a way to transcend the suffering of life now we may say he was an incarnation of authority did that ever occur to him did he ever think that he was an avatar I don't think there was even the concept and during hit that time because much later probably was just in the life of good probably close to each other but all this quranic idea of the avatars was much later much later so and that wasn't in his mindset so Jesus huh somehow came into his mind and was the son of God so it depends on the cultural setting and everything also some of these these ideas but certainly he had a sense of mission I said later in life and he knew that whatever he was doing whatever he had done was for the welfare of others and that whatever he had done would be would remain in this world and that swamiji would be the one to carry it you know throughout the world and uh he had that sense when these things came to him during his period of sadhana he couldn't think about anything it was like like he was in the tremendous Windstorm where all this everything is blown around you can't see anything 12 years he was like that he don't think he ever ever occurred to him oh I'm doing this to set an example to others anything like that huh those mind was just was just longing for all different types of divine experiences and realizations even after having the realization of the Divine mother for anybody else that's that's enough for a million lifetimes but for him it was just the beginning so that also made him think that there must be something special here he used to say hey there must be something special here and to go through so many different types why mother made him do it say he used to he used to say that he didn't like to say that I had this longing why mother made me go through all of these different experiences and have all these different follow all these different paths so easy we talked about yeah no no they won't call them an avatar they have a whole different yeah Christians won't say Jesus was an avatar when you mean one of many they also won't say that yeah and and uh this idea that he was an avatar this is much much later it comes in the Piranhas when Buddha kind of got pulled back into the Hindu tradition and everything yeah but these are very secondary insignificant things what we call them is not very important I'll tell you a story I heard once from Tommy adishwarya he told the story of a rabbi who was talking to his congregation and he was talking about one of the Great figures from the from the Old Testament and he was saying shall we call him a prophet shall we call him a rabbi shall we this and that going on and on and on and saying I don't know what place to give him so Sandra was sitting in front and said you can give him my seat I'm leaving so so yeah so we get carried away a little bit who was this who was that who was in it you said who was the Avatar and everything we see these great Souls do we have to really have uh knowing exactly why and how they came uh their their lives are beacons for us that we we can our whole life can be changed by following them uh worshiping them or having reverence for them the the Buddhist tradition they talk about venerating this is an interesting term I don't know what in the other language it is but in English it's translated that way that they'll venerate Buddha they won't worship of course he is worshiped in many temples but better it means just pay the highest reverence to him as as such a perfect Soul uh perfectly compassionate Soul who lived for others and uh whole life was dedicated to removing suffering from other people great so so yeah I personally don't bother too much about these things it is anything that I know uh I I won't be able to come to any definite conclusion about I I leave aside this is my theory that I don't see any point and and banging my head on the wall and trying to come to the conclusion about things that don't make any difference to me so uh we know in the case of Sharma Krishna holy mother all of the direct disciples they left a tremendous treasure for us and God dwells equally in all beings and some there's a tremendous manifestation of power we find that in shivrama Krishna I I always point to the introduction to Leela prasanga the Great Master it was from a Christian and his Divine place and he gives a very beautiful historical interpretation of how this idea of Avatar came and about these the cortical peruses these very special Souls that after achieving Liberation had a desire a greater desire to to be a benefit to the world than to have their own individual Liberation and and this this was the scene that we went to this idea of the avatar so uh for those who take it very literally then fine that's their faith is very good and helpful for them other people uh can can reject it Taco says these avatars not there for the Gandhi that we don't find it in the upanishads but we'll have these great teachers and everything so even now in India some great teachers yeah spiritual teachers are regarded as well yeah you know at the time of Christ there are many of course this Sai Baba his followers yeah at the time of Christ they say that there were dozens of Messiahs people it was just that type of period many people great holy people and their followers would declare this is the messiah yeah so uh yeah there will be many people who say caitanya Deva there will be people who say oh he's not one of the ten they're not listed here they're good his followers would say yes not only not only uh Incarnation but radhe and Krishna together somehow even better yeah let them argue it doesn't matter but we see at tacoy's point we see this tremendous power spiritual power had manifested in the ability to do satana the ability to experience Divine emotions Divine moods that's another distinction nod and the ability to come back from this nearby called the samati he said not only is it nearby copper sarati something very special for these uh great Souls but this mahabhabha parama the ordinary Souls can't bear this their whole body will be destroyed blown like the elephant goes into a small Hut we can have some Divine emotions and things but to think we can experience that which Radha felt for Christian that which caitanya they felt that which Rama Krishna felt we can't do that our system is not geared for it we're not wired for that we we don't have that the strength and that power he's a one one nice example when takua and kashipur he gave Swami Jesus to repeat and told me he got in such a mood that he couldn't help himself walking around fast and everything and talked they went to Tucker and told him he said I let him stay like that that what his experience now I went to I felt for 12 straight years now look at the difference between swamiji and srama Krishna and then us down here so yeah this is complete this gradation of things they talk we're a holy mother way above everything and and their disciples uh are way above us but way below them also of course this is this is our estimation of things it's this kind of for fun yeah yeah okay now prawn Krishna will raise another issue to the master sir what is the sound and I heard the sound this is oh that pranava the it's called because every other sound is created by some striking of something that causes a vibration in the air and they can reach the eardrum every sound so uh if it's speech is the vibration of the vocal cords then it'll send a wave there and it'll strike the air and we hear the speech everything is like that only this ohm is supposed to be different because it uh it precedes even even the creation of this invisible universe so it's the unstruck sound that sound which has no origin so that means that somehow it's identified with the Brahman itself Brahman is the only other thing that we describe that way beginning listen and and listen that that exists even when the universe is not there so this is sound so Master it is a spontaneous sound constantly going on by itself it is the sound of the paranova OM it originates in the Supreme Brahman and is heard by yogis yeah some of our our Swami to the another he used he used to hear that and among the more recent Swami Shanta yeah he he used to say that he could hear that all the it's not that everyone will not every god-real us all will and not at all times it may be a certain stage in spiritual practice or something it won't be heard like any other it'll be heard internally somehow and I don't know but uh but but they say that something can be very tangibly directly experienced this this uh sound of home [Music] people immersed in worldliness do not hear it a yogi alone knows that the sound originates both from his navel and from the Supreme Brum and resting on the ocean of milk now we have a combination here of uh some again quranic ideas and uh and also this idea that from the navel that means we'll feel that it comes from deep within ourselves there's a footnote according to Hindu mythology after the dissolution of the universe and before the next creation the Supreme Lord rests on the ocean of the great cause also called the ocean of milk it is symbolic University went to that Temple uh the very interesting that it's so here have you been so long and huge that you you have three different ways of seeing it do you see the head in the middle part of it yeah yeah where is it is yeah I saw it and then everybody got in trouble because they let me in the temple without permissions then brand Krishna sir what is the nature of the life after death now those who have read the gospel israma Krishna how many times do we get any description of where the soul goes in different Locas and and pitri loka and all of these things uh in the gospel how many times talk about these things I don't think I don't think he had any interest in these things he would uh not not that he he said forget about these things but he just would never answer these types of questions and he'll skirt them a little bit so he says what is the nature of light of the life after death master case of sen also asked that question as long as a man remains ignorant that is to say as long as he has not realized God so long will he be born so he's he's not the entry he's simply saying that after this lifetime either you're liberated or you're not liberated he's going to make it very simple but after attending knowledge he will not have to come back to this earth or to any other plane of existence so that means that he accepts this idea didn't reject anything some things he just seem to to think we're not very relevant for us we shouldn't we shouldn't dwell people so interested in these things these different heavens and everyone talked about all they're equally terrible Hells you can go to seven above seven below huh and some of the the ones below are terrible right we don't like to think about those things but uh yeah this uh do we go and and do we see our our loved ones our relatives and ancestors many many people want to know that question yeah some dear one dies a husband or wife dies young and I knew somebody like that the only thought was will I see her again after I died in some some heaven or something like that yeah of course we don't know we don't know the answers these near-death experiences seem to be uh very often this pitriloka that they'll find some relative waiting for them something like that and then they'll come back it wasn't time for them but we know some people just see light we don't know what what these things mean yeah would you say mind and uh there's nothing to but feeling is will be absent right yeah these these ideas of Heaven and Hell this is my my understanding require some type of subtle body also and with some type of senses and things yeah that we're not supposed to feel any pain or something hunger and things like that but enjoyment so it's not perfectly logical if you want to look at it that way but some idea uh I think in the minds of most people at least well it won't be our kind of perception we know that it'll be something different it may be completely subjective we don't really maybe like in a dream world yeah suffering God yeah enjoyment yeah but it may be like in the in in a dream that everything is taking place on the subtle level but there's also a visible subtle body so when people see a ghost huh what are they seeing they're not seeing the subtle body philosophically the subtle body of both demons and all of that they're also seeing some type of subtle physical appearance now we don't read about that and all the way down to philosophy right yeah so these are just kind of photonic ideas I I don't know how to explain these things very different yeah but I don't think much yeah swamiji's so many places completely rejects this whole idea there is no Heaven no hell no reincarnation [Music] there's only so many places yeah but if if living on this plane is also Maya then there's no reason why there can be other planes that are also Maya the the even shankaracharya he'll accept these these other planes of existence these other locals he has to they're in the scriptures actually yeah so yeah we have to see what what his point of view is at that time but swamiji also believed in his rebirth and those who will come back who will attain Liberation all of these things and yeah we don't have to bother about these things if it their curiosity things this is what swamiji said who put it into everything you know he used to tell that joke that the preacher was saying that God God was sitting on the fence trying to decide whether how to create this universe and somebody said well where did defense come from and he said don't ask that question you'll put an end to all religion so yeah if we ask too many questions then yeah so yeah what do we do with all of these we should have a little category in our minds all of these things that just uh I have a question mark over there I had a friend and a very nice devotee in in California he had this expression he said well one more thing I don't understand and that was it it didn't bother him at all just another thing I don't understand yeah but it is another one similar to me like uh it was more than like it wanted to be multiple yeah this is this is this is allegory when we read the Brahman thought may I be many uh yeah where is he sitting huh if he's thinking where is he looking around yeah this is just one way of saying that this whole manifest Universe has a source of unity behind it yeah the allegory uh this is why the upanishads speak in that type of language poetry allegory yeah yeah so anyhow Taco will explain this idea of uh why and and how uh the the soul even the souls in Jiva the whole thing doesn't mesh very well with it really Dwight the way down to that there's no real Jiva that is only Vermin but then it was the subtle body and he'll explain how this uh subtle body either will uh finish the job and attain Liberation that means that all of these physical elements go back all of the mental elements they also have their the sound and other things they go back and and one is not reward or why someone is Reborn one quiz I think he answered and he said like about rewards if you accept it is there if you don't accept it yeah the one place he says yes something like that is is there yeah he said something like that is in Gita at one time but then other times from what he says we know that he accepts these things yeah yeah say this idea of some Scottish see M didn't believe in reincarnation yeah when he first came so he asked him one time will it be harmful for my spiritual life so surrounded Christian said it's enough if you believe everything is possible for God he didn't push push anything like that yeah we have we have all all these great Saints from from Christianity and the Western religions the Sufi Saints and Jewish Mystics and everything that didn't necessarily believe in reincarnation that also had some high spiritual experiences and things so something speculative about a lot of this some of it is more than speculative because let's say what was the the proof for swamiji that he had previous lifetimes he remembered them [Music] yeah yeah you're better off at least someone who has seen a ghost know that there's some life beyond beyond this physical body he said even someone just seem to go to the better off that way okay let's let's see what he says here the Potter puts his pots in the sun to dry haven't you noticed that among them they are both baked and unbaked ones when a cow happens to walk over them some of the pots get broken to Pieces the broken pots that are already baked the Potter throws away since they have no more use to him but the soft ones though broken he gathers up he makes them into a lump and out of this forms new pots in the same way so long as a man has not realized God he will have to come back to the Potter's hand that is he will have to be born again and again it reminds me of our chapatis I will make chapati sometimes and afterwards they'll never be born again Jesus crumbled up of you right now what is the use of sowing a boiled Patty grain it will never bring forth a shoot likewise if a man is boiled in the fire of knowledge he will not be used for New Creation he is liberated yeah this idea of a different look in the upanishads earlier punishad's idea we find this idea going directly from one body to another body that we may say Well it means a subtle body another realm or anything but there are different these ideas grew these are historical things at different periods they believe different things I mentioned last time I think it at one time to be reborn was the the fruits of a good life that people would pray that those days life wasn't so bad maybe it was very made this made this death not be the end of my life may I be born again and then sometimes it switch you know it's terrible to be born again and again and again may I have Liberation even before Liberation it was Heaven may go to heaven and then at some point it was like well you can't stay there forever oh okay then what do we do so these these things that my mom said guys and others these these different theories at different times this is speculative this is what the armandica punishad calls yeah all belongs to this lower knowledge which is not absolute and Stephen swamiji says that new ideas will come in the future we'll have a better understanding of things even Karma Theory everything now is provisional is it helpful for us in every name but nothing is final at this point only this knowledge only only the real nature of the self that which is beyond everything that's absolute and that's not a question of culture or time or space or anything that's the only thing that's the only paragu India that knowing which everything is known the real nature of the self according to the puranas the bhakta and bhagavan are two separate entities I am one and you are another now I mentioned many times when Taco says according to the quranas he means a dualistic schools of vedanta and when he says according to vedanta he means non-dualist the just the language that he used but what's very interesting is that uh he takes this doctrine of reflection and always puts this in the camp of of the puranas and and bhakti whereas it's all the way in vedant used among the edwaitians with a slightly different purpose and yeah we'll we'll see what he says according to the Piranhas the bhaktan bhagavan are two separate entities I am one and you are another the body is a plate as it were containing the water of Mind intelligence and ego Brahman is like the sun it is reflected in the water therefore the devotee sees the Divine form this is kind of a dualistic interpretation of this doctrine that I am somehow something separate even from the mind I can look within and have the vision of God and reflected in the mind when the Mind becomes pure now for the dwighten the point of this of this Doctrine is that Brahman can be reflected in many things without undergoing any change itself it can appear to be Benny or can that it doesn't get exhausted by the number of times that it's reflected and so the sun remains completely unchanged during this whole process to say that Brahman remains completely unchanged whether it's a manifest universe or not they take it in that sense but talk worth taking it from the other side if we look at it uh this this illustration only works if there is a real body and a real mind if they're a container in water and a real sun to be reflected in it for the adoiten that's not the critical part of it critical part is that the sun is not affected by the no matter how many reflected Sons there are so some people will say well if the jivas are coming from Brahman then Brahman will get exhausted too many Divas then the problem becomes less and less but this is say no just like the sun each reflection uh it it doesn't lessen the sun is not affected at all so it's uh interesting that takur he'll use this illustration also to show how that Brahman alone is is the real self but he'll he'll uh explain it in terms of a realistic doctrine of the real body and mind in all of these things and and not so much this idea uh that this visible universe is nothing but Brahman it's a visible universe will be a creation of Brahman according to the Duelist so a projection out of Brahman with its own separate independent existence so this he'll explain according to the piranhas and then according to vedanta so one is is a dualistic interpretation which which is is useful for we say oh I'm not a dualist I'm going to do it then how does it help me no it's it's one of the most beautiful and helpful illustrations we don't have to take it this there's a other way that this material universe is is unrelated to Brahmin it's only there to reflect we don't have to take it that way at all we can say from the relative point of view there's the separation there's the Sun and something to be reflected in the sun that's all but the main thing is that what is the real source of my Consciousness is it not the mind or the brain there's the source of Consciousness is in the water the reflection of the sun has nothing to do with with that that sun we our problem is that we identify that reflected sun with the water the water is responsible for it it belongs to the water it's Inseparable from the water there's nothing you can do and no the sun isn't it's completely separate from it so that way for even for the adoiten is very very important illustration one of the most important the doctrine of reflection is not so much a question here Shakti has to be there whenever we're talking about anything like this even for reflection there has to be Shakti there's a power of prediction the power to of manifestation this is all type of Shakti we may substitute the word Maya for it but still is some process even if it's an apparent process even if we say it's a dream that's a process we say Dream well it's not really real but still there's there's a difference between having a dream and not having a dream okay so there's some Shakti that will be necessary or Maya if we might as something has to be there the dwightens have a little bit of uh difficult time not bringing Shakti in and even when they explain what is Maya they'll explain it as two different shaktis is very hard for them not to bring in a little bit of this idea of Shakti so that was according to the piranhas now according to the vedanta Brahman alone is real and all else is Maya dreamlike and unsubstantial now this question of dream this is this is a big issue when when we say if we say that everything is like a dream what do we mean it would mean literally like a dream a dream is a projection of my mind huh this idea of like a dream will have if we like it is some type of is it Brahman in my dreaming all these dreams one as far as these poems he says that it will have to be like the Roman's dream and we participate in it otherwise it becomes a type of uh idealism that's not sustainable that I'm projecting this universe myself the way I project a dream that I have to envision myself lying in bed someplace else in the different yeah otherwise so when we say uh it like a dream unsubstantial uh from one point of view it's exactly like a dream it has a beginning it has an end from from the experiential point of view There's no distinction whatsoever while we're having a dream except if we're very uh aware of things that some illogical things may be taking place in the dream that will say no this can't really happen usually that'll be the end of the dream I I can do that yeah I sometimes you know I'll have a dream and I'll and I'll I'll be dreaming of somebody who died and then I'll say oh but this person that doesn't it can't be it has to be a dream why am I seeing this person in person already died then the dream ends it'll happen but other than that we can be flying through the air in the dream 100 real that doesn't make any difference to us and uh when we when we wake up and we look at this reality what's the difference from a phenomenological point of view you know it's phenomenality that was my favorite subject it was my I was a when I did philosophy as an undergraduate the beautiful School of of European philosophy phenomenology that explains everything in terms of our experience of things now if it's a dream I can say that these chairs don't have any real independent existence but I'm experiencing them the same way that I do in the waking state what's the difference how how do we know that we're not dreaming now we can wake up from this and say ah but it seems so real so from that point of view there's no real distinction so the the gyani just taking it that way that it's a long dream and it'll come to an end if it comes if if this universe comes to an end when we die suppose we die and we're conscious of dying find ourselves another Loca and then remember all of this would be just like a long dream but it doesn't mean that it's a projection of my individual mind that way we have that that distinction that we don't know that that connection with the college programs that's very complicated yeah that's very close but this whole thing the the vedantic point of view will be that it's a brahman's dream it is a cosmic dream and we're participating in it's also hard to to Really grasp but anyhow that's that's one way of trying to explain this whole thing but from a metaphysical point of view everything in in the dream is unsubstantial that no Carpenter made these chairs that there's nothing and there's nothing inside of it we can say in the waking State I know that there has to be this stuffing inside of that seat there has to be in the dream it's not even a question it's not an issue it's like I said the Hollywood said that there's nothing behind anything it's all surface that uh oh there's a very nice conversation in in the gospel I I forget the contest exactly but someone had a vision of Krishna and he said but Krishna why aren't your earrings jangling and and Krishna says to him if you make them jangle then they'll jangle so that's the thing that there's no independent reality in the dream and the vision also can can be like that that whatever we dream that's this that's the cause and the source of it we don't explain it any other way if uh if we dream of a house we wake up somebody said that who built that house they do what kind of a question is that the house existed because I dreamed it if if I dreamed that someone's building it then I can say who built it otherwise there's not a question huh so difference between fiction and non-fiction literature if I'm writing about an individual somebody says that who was the great great great great grandfather of this individual if it's if it's non-fiction I'll say I'll do some research I'll see if I can find out probably I won't be able to get the name if it's fiction they'll say this is not part of my book I don't have to give a name to that person it's not part of the whole thing and and in the dream there's nothing behind anything now there's a pillar here and behind this pillar this post there's a little opening to the to the kitchen there if it's a dream there's nothing behind it everything is two-dimensional in a Dream It's just giving the appearance but the appearance in the dream and the appearance here are the same that's the whole point from a phenomenological point of view we can't make any distinction Network yeah word analogy oh drama yeah Leela yeah like a play or something yeah if we think that everything is just fleeting and passing by and everything yeah I I have this funny Theory that uh what's the real difference between the dream and the waking state is that in the waking State we remember the dream and we remember the dream ending that gives us a sense it was only a dream if we didn't have that and if in the dream we remembered the waking state then uh we would think that the dream was the real one of the waking state was the dream state it is something interesting to think about there there was a statement I think this this was by uh loud too loud too they can have this is uh Chinese uh uh founder of thousand yeah that he said uh I dreamed last night that I was a butterfly and it was so real that now I'm wondering whether I'm a man who dreamed I was a butterfly or whether I'm a butterfly dreaming that I'm a man so we can have that sense that this world is like a dream that is fleeting that it will end sometime but we don't have to make a metaphysical Doctrine out of it that is all a projection of mind but because that happens in vedanta we have all these ideas all these different theories and everything and uh I don't find them helpful I like this this idea everything is virtual reality everything is virtual reality give me the impression and everything experience in the mind is what Top 40 says over and over again everything is experienced in the mind everything and and we see uh just just like a city being reflected in water everything is is reflected in in the mind and we as metaphysical speculation what what's in there we have two things phenomenal and numeral Western philosophy and this numeral sometimes is taken to be the the religious this spiritual thing but otherwise it's just me what is the thing in itself what is the thing uh what type of existence does it have aside from our perception of it unknown and unknowable that no answer is given to that we know everything just as we perceive it and experience it so from that point of view yeah everything is like a dream so he says Roman alone is real Allah says Maya dream like an unsubstantial we don't know what what the lying behind yeah anything is it just like a Hollywood set giving the appearance the ego like a stick lies across the ocean of sachidananda to him listen to what I am saying when the ego was taken away there remains only one undivided ocean of sachidananda but as long as the Stick of ego remains there is an appearance of two here is one part of the water and they're another part attaining the knowledge of Brahman one is established in samati then the ego is effaced now one thing that we noticed very often some doctrines of the Dwight abedanta SRI ramakrishna will preface according to the Giannis that means that don't take this as anything that I'm trying to impress upon you that everyone has to accept that this is any final truth sometimes you'll say now let me tell you something that will appeal to you let's say to this and others like that but this idea of the stick in the water he gives over and over again without any preface here he's saying according to vedanta but other times I take this to be one of his most important teachings this that this ego is unsubstantial uh the diseegos is when that limb ego is eliminated and then we're only in that ocean of Oneness this is the main I think this is something that takura will say is there's applicable for everyone even even for the bhakta and the bhakta eliminates that ego through love and devotion and self forget forgetfulness of One's Own Self only brought to thinking of Krishna all the time so whose ego is it uh somebody said oh a big eagle whose ego is it a home car huh let me read that yeah a home Carter who's he who is belongs to Krishna not to her in that way so even further about every spiritual path we have to somehow transcend this ordinary ego to go beyond this the main source of bondage for us okay let's stop here um [Music] [Music] foreign who was stainless of infinite nature whose heart melts and sympathy for his devotees who is an embodiment of the Divine and the Supreme Lord and ever worthy of our worship peace peace peace thank you