Video 114

The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna read by Swami Atmajnanananda (11/25/22)

foreign Souls they're praised by Poets and removal sin they are auspicious to hear wonderful and exalted those who spread these words throughout the world are truly giving Souls welcome everyone to our class on the gospel of Sharma Krishna we're on the chapter I am at the Chinese sword part two page 369. and the date is Thursday December 27th 1883. M has been with suramakrishna almost 10 days now this is that long stretch it'll it'll continue for a few more days also and they had gone to the house of Isha he should look at his house and Sharma Krishna was having a conversation with his son his son's name is srish and this fish is a lawyer and very intelligent and takura obviously likes him very much and they're having a very nice conversation so we'll continue with that about three o'clock in the afternoon the master was seated again in ishan's drawing room with M and srish he resumed his conversation with srish before that they all had their lunch and little rest Taco General Lee in these situations would have lunch with the ladies very often and the men weren't allowed he would go into the inner apartment and that would be their chance to to see him and spend some time with him so that often happened master what is your attitude toward God I am he or master and servant okay now there are many different attitudes but in general he's really asking uh do you like to follow this path of Ghana yoga or this path of bhakti yoga and in the path of bhakti yoga of course there are all different relationships but when he says this master servant this really means uh any of the dualistic types of of relationships that are there could be mother to child anything like that but so basically he wants to know uh if he likes this path of of and then he says for the householder it is very good to look on God as the master so this is that Dasia bhava that according to the invasion of a tradition I is exemplified by the relationship that mahavir Hanuman had to srirama and talk with practice all all of these we don't know very much about some of these Barbers but in the Great Master Swami Shadow he says that taku practice all of these the five dollars some of them we know very specifically and one of them is when he practices Dasio bhava and I've mentioned many times the thing that that strikes me about this this tradition is that uh the mind gets fixed not on the object of worship but on the worshiper in order to get in the mood so that ramakrishna had to become fully identified with Hanuman in order to be able to worship Brahma in that same way so he dressed on a funny way with tying his claw so it was like a tail in the back and he ate raw fruits and hopped from place to place see all of the things they sound silly but uh Taco did things literally because he was a good psychologist he knew how the mind is affected even by by dress and and food and everything so uh he he understood that there was a a purpose to all of these things we were reading the other day when he was in it went to rindavan and practiced vaishnavut uh the other times that he would dress like them also so this was another thing that he did because uh he would enter fully into that Baba and into that tradition so he did that with his master servant so Talk work if he emphasized any two relationships I would say it would be this Masterson and the one that's not really uh part of this advice limited tradition he used to call it the chantan pub looking upon God his mother and looking upon oneself as a child and in this case it was the son of the Divine mother so this is uh something that belongs to the shakta tradition but easily fits in with this whole idea of relationship and so why is it that the householder uh is more suited to this devotional path and it's a dualistic path from uh from an external point of view and from a practical point of view that there's there has to be two the relationship between ourselves and God but the attitude that I am he in the beginning is also a little bit of a dualistic Phantom we have our sense of I and we have our sense of ramen only we're trying to see the the non-distinction between the two but even that it starts out with some sense of I that's not fully ripened yet now Taco is going to explain why the path of of of knowledge is not suited for the householder in an exclusive way now I'm going to add this because talk words throughout the gospel of the srama Krishna he's giving all of the highest teachings of the Dwight abedanta to householders so it's not that he thinks oh they're not capable of understanding this uh there's a difference between an understanding and spiritual practice sadhana I mentioned that very nice statement that Swami permission on he made that he said in our tradition we're at the weight of audience and Dwight the gardens very interesting comment that philosophically we accept this idea of Oneness but from a practical point of view we utilize this relationship and talk with understanding of dualism was completely different it wasn't uh and absolute and eternal distinction between the individual soul and the Supreme soul it was more this idea that the Stick of ego is is lying on the surface of the water giving the appearance of two sides and that this this scent of our eye it doesn't leave so we utilize it so it was accepting this oh there's only one body of water ocean there but the scent of eye it gives this feeling of of Separation so why not utilize it then we take this ego the scent of eye and let that work for us the very brilliant way of of uh doing spiritual practice and the dualistic way with an understanding that it's it's all grounded on this Oneness this idea one and ends in Oneness Taco said that all of these paths dualistic path also will end in Oneness however we understand it the devotee will say Union dignity will say absolute Oneness you know what's the difference at that at that point we we don't know uh if anybody if there's a difference if anybody can describe their difference or not at that point so he goes on for the householder it is very good the look on God is the master the householder it's conscious of doing the duties of Life himself okay so there's uh there's some sense of agency I am the Doer and uh it's a good thing the house Soldier has to have that and actually we all have to have that now when when he says that uh for the householder it is very look good to look on God as the master he's not saying that for the monk it's very bad to do it even for for monks even for his own disciples his direct disciples who became the great monks uh he didn't emphasize this this Path of Knowledge for all of them uh it was swamiji mostly released Pharmacy mostly some of the others to a certain extent but even with ramadi he knew we had the heart of a devotee so uh he he didn't like anything to be one-sided but we shouldn't think that the householders inferior and the path of devotion is inferior and therefore they follow that path I think there's a great mistake and uh is unfortunate that many people who follow this Path of Knowledge if you have a little feeling of superiority this uh adhikara that we're capable and qualified of doing it when not everybody else is capable and qualified now atikara for which ramakrishna has a different meaning is not so much that this is the highest path and the best path but we're not qualified for it so we don't follow it it was more a question of what is suitable for us would it helpful for us so no question of better or worse for the for the devotee this is the this attitude of looking on God as the master it's better because it's suitable because it works better that's all there's not a question of that because sometimes we think that we're second-class devotees that we're not fit to say I am he so we have to have this other this lower type of relationship thing this is not a tahquist teaching this idea of adikata uh for the gyani is a very strict thing and and an exclusive thing and you have to have a certain uh degree of of light argue and you have to have a certain and sharpened intellect and you have to really want to renounce everything and you have to have done a certain amount of study a lot of things that they have uh for this this Guyana yoga this uh uh the cottage is very strict now we may think that that means that in bhakti yoga it's not strict we see that anybody can practice it if they're sincere and that they lead a good life at minimum minimum a little bit of Purity in their in their behavior and and uh and sincerity and desire now does that mean that this is a lower path or an easier path now this is the other thing uh easier and harder in chapter 12 of that we this question is asked straight out by Arjuna District which is better these these two paths to have this relationship with God or to follow this and think of God as impersonal absolute reality and uh first thing that Shri Krishna says is both are good both can take us to the highest goals then he says glacier it's a little more difficult this uh path of the of the same in impersonal God it's difficult now why is it difficult we get this term now this is interpreted differently that for for shankaracharya it means that those who have a lot of body consciousness so now we get back to what you remember Christian is saying that those who have this feeling that I am doing everything householders they have to have that type of feeling but we on the other hand we can the heaven means embodied being all of us and unless we're born with with such uh a strong feeling that I am the self and the perfect disidentification with the body otherwise we're all embodied beings so this path is difficult there's a path of of knowledge but I I have to keep emphasizing exclusive Path of Knowledge where we we really don't take advantage of uh any of the uh type of devotional practices where we simply do this vichada and we do this very very difficult very few people uh can can because what are we doing we're taking one that's so home we're taking we're taking that whole lifetime trying to analyze what is the meaning of of tat what is the meaning of this is very difficult so which ramakrishna says is that uh have an understanding of all of this and tied in the corner of your cloth then do all of your other types of spiritual practice in your household duties and everything let that remain don't don't say that if The Path of Knowledge is not for me that there's something wrong about it will never say that this uh soham that this is this is a mistake the Duelist will say that but say no you can't say that you were God blasphemy even swamiji thought that huh in the very beginning oh our swamiji is here so I mean foreign [Laughter] okay good trip yeah yeah okay so we're talking about The Path of Knowledge and the path of devotion yeah what happened oh I heard yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that's right it's not like ramakrishna though no but it's it's the same arms yeah oh boy okay only the essential component yeah okay so the householder is conscious of doing the duties of Life himself so this is one thing the sense of of the agency then under such conditions how can he say I am he to him who says I am he the world appears to be a dream now this is another interesting thing that uh The Path of Knowledge has two sides to it one is this feeling that uh the devotment in paravatmen are one in the same no distinction and this is a Brahman alone Israel and this world has some type of unreality to it now what does mithya means this of course uh we get all different interpretations uh everything from uh it's just changing it's not Eternal that it's made of parts to it's really some type of illusion caused by by himaya and everything all different types of ideas but the gyani should have some feeling that there's something unsubstantial about this world and I don't want to enter into it and I really don't want to get too involved I don't feel much attraction anyhow but I know that I want to just go deep within and this world will have this kind of a secondary value so takur says uh the world appears to be a dream now maybe not literally a dream but very conscious of the fact that everything is flowing by time is it's going and the whole life is going like that that's that type of feeling and that I am the witness of everything so his body or his mind his body even his ego or dreams to him so a lot of this has to do with this disidentification of of the body and even the relationship that we have with our personality with our ego that's also just part of this play that I'm also the witness of that I'm not that when I say I am he that is nothing to do with his ego sense we have to eliminate all of that no the the gyani has to have a very fine scent of eye a center of ego that's not very much based on even personality body of course but even personality the main false identification is not really with the body and it's really with this personality when we talk about ego we're really talking about uh our whole set of of beliefs uh are all of our qualities and characteristics this is what we really get attached to personality the body's included of course but so for the gyani uh it says even his ego so not just his mind his body even his ego or dreams to him therefore he cannot perform worldly duties so this is a very traditional that uh The Path of Knowledge was meant for those who followed the path of sanyasa it's a very traditional thing not that there can't be household or Giannis takor talks about that sometime but it was really felt especially by shankaracharya that there was a conflict that if we know something is unreal we have we give it up we renounce it and uh there were other Traditions that tried to combine them when when we read shankaracharya's commentary on the Gita we wonder why he's so strong on this this idea that you can't combine Carmen Ghana and there was a an earlier commentary his is the earliest commentary that we have but we know that there was an earlier one that he wrote against I don't remember who it was something some early commentary and he had this uh doctrine of foreign that means you do them together you compile them together that even The Path of Knowledge you still do Vedic ritual and shankarachary is mostly arguing against that not so much of what we call Karma Yoga the same thing with ceramic Krishna very often he'll talk about karma yoga and we'll wonder he's not very much in favor of it then we'll find out he's talking about a ritual this was also an understanding of what Karma meant at that time foreign so then he says so it is very good for the householder to look on himself as the servant and on God as the master now what what is the advantage of this industria bhava one it utilizes this feeling of of Freedom this feeling of agency the some of these other attitudes if we say well I want to live in this world like a dry leaf or I want to live in a world like the kitten I won't make any effort the mother cat will take me in from here to there and everything what do we do how do we do it we don't know what to do we still have this feeling of I and this feeling of wanting to do something uh takur says gives God the power of attorney that's fine for us if we actually have somebody we can call and say I'm supposed to now tell me what to do huh that should should I yeah pay my taxes or should I not pay my taxes no we have somebody there they say well I'm your lawyer I'll advise you you have to do this and they say I don't want to do it he said no but I have the power of attorney I'll sign for you if you don't want but we don't have we don't have that it's a very high state if we can feel that and they say what did good East do he would have to stop and think am I doing this guest out of my own uh this this wretched ego that wants to get something out of it and if he eliminated that then he could feel that now I'm following that teaching to some extent or during talk of his life he could ask him but otherwise yeah how do we do it it's very hard so this this Dacia bahava it allows us to feel I am the agent of action that I'm the one who's doing it in fact a strong ego yeah who will protect Ramen if not me this is Hanuman he had this tremendously strong ego but everything was for the sake of drama it eliminates everything selfish in life he had no desire to do anything for his own sake everything is for the sake of the master very beautiful relationship the mother child relationship also very beautiful all of them looking upon God as friend looking upon God as a child they're all very beautiful but this Advantage is that it works for most of us who still have a strong sense of of self of I a strong sense that I am responsible for my action I have a certain amount of Free Will certain amount of free will that I can choose what to do what not to do I know that I have my old son Scott is and I know that there may be other powers at work but I have that feeling so how do I curb that how do I keep that from getting me into trouble that uh I feel that whatever I do I'm doing for the sake of the master so this is a Hanuman did so uh this will eliminate everything selfish it will ensure that the mind is thinking of God throughout the day that everything Hanuman did he was thinking of Rama he didn't know anything what day of the week it was even yeah everything I know Rama alone so this is a very helpful type of the attitude the problem with this I am he is that uh nothing tangible to hold on to and we we can we can really think that uh even doing spiritual practice is somehow antithetical to that to that feeling that I am one with God that that I am I am one with with the Brahmin inactive and and just the witness of everything so uh we'll have we end up with very funny statements there's there's one one line is that this is this is what your bondage we want to know what bondage is that you're practicing meditation and trying to steal the mind that means you think that you're bound now okay I mean I can appreciate it it's a very nice nice idea but for most of us then what do we do we say oh then I can't even meditate then what am I supposed to do if if the mind is is sharp if if we're really reach that stage then it's enough and then we get that realization but short of that uh if we if we carried so far then then we find that there's nothing to do I remember yeah yeah because very few people are and and very few sanyasins are fit for it also I remember uh and one of the first things that I read in the early days of when I was just interested in spiritualized was J krishnamurthy I liked it very much I was very much attractive very brilliant mind and everything really appealed to me but you have no guru have no Mantra what do I do we we need to do something and we're saying that having a relationship and having a behava and having something to hold on to or gives us something very tangible in spiritual life very very helpful he never looked at any grades this idea of soham but uh he he warns the devotees that if we take this attitude that I am he and our sense of eye is very much ego based then this will just get in trouble it won't be helpful it'll be harmful so there's a very because we we see it and it's so attractive nowadays especially there's a path of Ghana yoga very very attractive everybody wants to be a Yani they think that somehow somehow that's the first class yeah everybody else is kind of second class okay on YouTube so then when you talk about power of attorney yeah [Music] power of attorney general or more or less the same yeah what how we practice the sharanagati if we have a sense of I huh I still I still I am taking Refuge right I still have the sense of I I'm the child of God I I want to take refuge with God Center is there so uh when we talk about surrender taking shelter The Refuge taking the surrender it has to be after we do our very best to to uh whatever whatever decision we make if we eliminate everything selfish about it and we think this is the best decision and we try our best to do it then we let go then whatever results come we have to accept so this is a very simple uh Axiom of of Karma Yoga that the fruits are outside of our domain the the action that we're responsible for the action and then after that whatever comes comes so swamiji says in one place act as if everything depends upon you and when it comes to the results Act is it everything depends upon God so that's one way to practice to practice it the best is to harmonize to understand the truth of both the truth of both of Oneness because this this advice is a very beautiful thing now one thing that has happened with with edwada is that uh two I started to mention this two very different ideas are there one is this idea of Oneness in the as the jivatman and paramotment that there are actually one the Jiva doesn't merge in in the in God it doesn't uh climb higher and higher then uh it realizes at some point by eliminating all of these uh coverings that it was always one to begin with that's also a very hard concept this feeling of is so strong but the second thing that is creeped in is this this mithya is that this this world is unreal we don't find this idea in the upanishads it's really it's really not prominent there if it's there at all but this idea of Oneness is there so uh they don't have to go together he was very clear that this ego is something unsubstantial that there's ultimately Oneness but he didn't like to look upon his world as a dream he said many many times he liked to look upon it as the Aishwarya as this is the Majesty of the Divine mother there's there's this this manifestation of her Shakti he liked it now this is this is uh the difference between drama Krishna and and typical philosopher that it wasn't one is what is right what is wrong what appeals to somebody yeah um but still you have time for making a very big distinction between naren and the rest yeah Narin was really the only one I I maybe maybe Swami 3000 a little bit in others but really nothing was the one we meet uh okay this is the question why did Tucker want to uh really push this this advice on swamiji yeah one thing is that that swamiji uh as a member of the Brahma samaj didn't accept a lot of these things from the one hand he didn't accept this idea of Guru and and even Avatar not so much on the other hand he didn't accept a lot of these ideas that bruman has become all this and we we know so I think Taco wanted him to be perfectly rounded in every possible way this is the one thing and uh yeah we can say that uh the others what we say well the others weren't qualified for that but it wasn't it wasn't helpful for them or suitable for them I don't know I mean uh also he gave swamiji this Rama Mantra and everything he wanted him to be perfectly well-rounded but the fact that that swamiji was really the only one uh should be a red flag for us if if even some of the others who were towering Giants uh I still I won't say that the others weren't qualified for it that because they were the two things we've gone through this many times different taste and the other is power of digestion so uh what what path would be uh foreign most appealing to somebody see how do we choose this is a very interesting question how do we choose a belief system when we choose what to believe and what not to believe is it 100 logic I don't think so we choose to believe what we want to believe very often and so what appeals to us so this is part of it so I think with what Temple was saying for most people and this means that almost everybody with sovereignty in this case for most that uh utilizing the emotions having a relationship uh having a devotion that this will be more more appealing now this other other half what can one Digest was he necessarily saying that the others weren't intelligent enough they couldn't follow this soham I don't think so I think it's more a question that the other path was more suitable but he taught all of them there's the highest we don't we don't find any compromise with that compromises with our own mind that he's saying this is the highest truth but this this ego idea it'll come back you think it's that you've gotten rid of it you think you've cut down the whole tree the ego was gone you wait and see very next day you sprout will come so it's very practical that way and uh even after Liberation even after realization some sense of I is there Tucker had a center value the ascent of I was mostly giant of the Divine mother it was a perfectly ripe ego he said even the Avatar everybody has a some type of ego is it is it part of vidyamaya of idyamaya is it pulling us down or is it taking us up there are many people I had a college professor very brilliant he could write all sorts of things about this was he fit to follow it first of all he wasn't interested in spiritual life but if he had been was he fit to follow it no he's he was completely identified with I'm a professor I'm this a very nice man wonderful person but still so it's not the question of just intelligence many very intelligent people they ended with huge egos and partly because they like to situated huh has become a very popular thing yeah yeah okay this is a good question yeah yeah okay let me tell them because they can't hear you yeah yeah let me tell them because yeah they won't know what you're saying yeah once baburam Swami payment on that he saw all the other disciples that go into some type of ecstasy and having experiences and everything this was that period uh towards the towards the very end of takush day induction is who are mostly and many if not all of the direct disciples had come and there were a lot of kirtan and singing and dancing and and uh a lot of them were going into ecstasy now this baburam who was was given the name primaranda because we had identified him most more than anybody else almost with his love divine love that he had some aspect of Radha and everything and uh but he wasn't getting any of these this ecstasy so we went to srama Krishna and he said so why is everybody getting these visions and uh tears flowing and everything and I'm not getting it uh now generally takur he would fix problems just like that he could do it several times activities came and said uh yeah that why do I suffer from lust he said okay he touched them and he did one so what's the problem with him he said anyhow let me talk to the Divine mother so he goes to the Divine mother and says mother your child baburam is asking why do I don't get us and then he goes back and says I talked to mother and she said that uh you won't have probably you'll have Guyana yeah so do we do it do we assume that that gyani I don't think so I don't think so I think this well first of all what what does it mean to to have knowledge it can mean also that I'm a Child of God what is what is the definition of the gyani in uh I see personal God I see is is everything so I I don't look upon because in in this behavior and everything uh he loved Puja worship and everything I don't look upon him as a gyani but his type of of devotion was a quiet type it wasn't with this all of this this Bahama and when when we say that swamiji was all devotion Within yeah uh that doesn't mean that he wasn't fit to follow The Path of Knowledge also he was Fit For All Pets ideally exclusively yeah yeah so I think uh if there was emphasis on Guyana yoga it was because uh that was not developed and fully in this that is developed in the brahmasway and I think Taco wanted him to be exposed to traditional Dwight David haunted what we read in the that was the beginning of it that he wanted him to to go through that tackle loved that book he kept it in his room so yeah these are interesting questions very interesting questions with this thing with the baboon it's very surprising we don't know why exactly can answer the question of what his power was when he went to worship you can't say from outside yeah it's true we don't know what is what his attitude was but we know that his devotion was directed towards themselves yeah yeah that's true yeah so this is a hard distinction kind of Johnny and I have this Baba and can a devotee not have knowledge yeah but it's a question of who's fit to follow one particular bit our tradition of course likes to blend everything not to make such big distinctions to integrate all of the different yogurts but I think let's see talker had a few householders a few that thought of themselves as big Giannis read lots of books they thought it was knowing the Sanskrit verses and scriptures and everything and he he could see through it he knew that it wasn't there was was no substance behind it yeah any of these are all the interesting questions we yeah especially with Swami premananda is is very counter-intuitive we assumed even the name that is given and how he was so the the everybody says the essence of devotion image of devotion they can't understand because especially when thakur says yoga was whom you could say almost every minute yeah he was he said he was argument yeah no no there's many many things many many things like that yeah this is his attitude and swamiji and everything male and female but the same type of Ghana yoga maybe so yeah this conquer had an insight to these things huh no nearly not it doesn't seem to to match but uh we had an insight to these things and uh one interesting thing is that he was always it all always matched and it's wrong with you asked him and asked him one time although every times when it's not right and then Taco said no they were there no we don't know how these things work or anything but okay so let's get back to this uh so we're back to this idea for for Gianni traditional path of Yana yoga the world has to be a little bit dreamlike they shouldn't they should really uh want to audition disengage from the world so talk of it sometimes talk about how Southern Giannis but generally he wouldn't encourage for the householders uh yeah these are interesting statements they were both perfect blends yeah but but the the reason is that taco looked like it was only devotion from the outside so we don't see always the the knowledge and Swami looked like he was you know Stern Ghana Yogi but of course we know that tremendously tender heart that he had with him but it didn't show it all of the time and especially kept hidden that that love and that relationship with the Divine mother that this this relationship with Mother Kali that he established later in life that he didn't like to talk about it he said it's my own private thing so that's why we can say that that was on the inside because it was a little bit hidden otherwise the Perfect Blend Perfect Blend I don't uh I don't know how we can really make these big distinctions what's on the inside what's on the outside interview but this is a statement that we hear I know who said it who made that statement you know a taco himself said it okay swamiji said it Taco himself said it swamiji said it they both said it anyhow there's some truth to it because the swamiji looked like the gyani so then then we can say okay then so then inside and taco look at all we singing and dancing but the brilliant uh understanding of everything and that that the highest Oneness and everything within it wasn't always manifest I mean look look at how years of his life were spent with the greater part of the day merged in there because basanti after totaporti that experience before all the devotees came most of the time his mind was merged and and Oneness that I had stayed for the county with a yogi Hanuman had the attitude of a servant he said to Rama O Rama sometimes I meditate on you as the whole and on myself as the part okay now this this is going to be how we understand that blend uh how someone can have the attitude of dualism qualified non-dualism and non-dualism in one of the same person one of the same mind that it depends on on particular point of view depends on how I how I feel that that particular day how I look upon myself talk would like this verse he used to quote this many many times sometimes I meditate when there's the whole and myself as the part sometimes I feel that you were the master and I am the servant but when I have the knowledge of reality I see that I am you and you are I so do we say that Hanuman was not a gyani in this state of perfect knowledge one may feel I am he but that is far beyond the ordinary man's experience see this I am he is a low even a lower state the because there's some sense of I I am he the highest state will be this eye completely disappears I am he is also a kind of relationship based on Oneness but it's still it's a kind of relationship the highest state is when there's the ego completely disappears and then what is is that reality remains then then the salt dollar is completely melted in the ocean no one to say even I am he mine has to come down lower to be able to say I am he that'll be that'll be the ripe ego of the gyani that will be the vagina State for the gyani I am heat it won't be the realization that'll be even Beyond any possible statement or attitude or anything so he says in the state of perfect knowledge one may feel I am he but that is far beyond the ordinary man's experience Suresh now remember he's talking srij who probably was like all of the other educated young men influenced by the Brahma samaj in that type of attitude a little bit that not much caring for God would form or traditional worship uh a little bit influenced by the Western thought and uh lots of very logical not accepting uh Gods and Goddesses all of that we can we can assume that the Charis had a little bit of that type of attitude and the Papa was trying to uh fill in it was Taco had two tricks one was he would support whatever was your attitude and the other whatever was lacking he would add he would so he used to say that never harm anybody's spiritual attitude but when he saw that it was too one-sided or something then he would show the the negative side of this uh being two Orthodox or being too one-sided that is true sir the attitude of a servant relieves a man of all his worries same thing the attitude of a child all of these see these are the side benefits of all of that if I I'm the servant then I feel that I'm just doing what my Master's bidding I don't have to worry about anything Master knows I'm doing my best that's all we don't have to worry I'm not doing it for my sake I won't be sad if I don't get something out of it so there's very few of these very pure attitudes a taco like this this is this for most people for him he liked the child relationship but for most people he'd like this and did swamiji have this ah very strong very strong that's what sustained him that he was doing Tucker's work yeah the servant depends entirely upon his master a dog is devoted to its Master it depends upon him and is at peace yeah he was famous for loving dogs and uh one particular dog was very very devoted to him would always just lie down at his feet and he would point and say you see this they said this dog this is and you see this this is the one devoted to pastrami Krishna yeah talk with a dog Master well what suits your taste god with form or the formless reality this was a big question in those days god with form was a kind of a dirty word in those days because it meant idol worship it was not uh such a high philosophical idea that uh can God have attributes this and that generally this is a kind of a code word at least among the brahmos that we know in the very beginning when that the conversation is there between him and srama Krishna that he's talking about you know except both this and that and then what's the first thing that M says but people should know that they're worshiping a clay image and not God huh so even for him it's so intelligent uh he didn't really think very deeply what it means of this idea this uh goddess what does that really mean when we say God with form that's we also don't know most of the time what do we mean when we talk about God with form are we talking about Shiva and the Durga and all of that or we're talking about this Virat his whole universe is the body of God it's a Buddhist idea are we talking about the subjective realizations and visions that people have God Appears in one form or another form these these are all very subtle questions it's not it's not at all clear when the conversations are taking place that that he even talk words has the same idea that when whoever the discussion is with that they're on the same page with this idea of God with form what it exactly means any other words we'll see with the street says uh oh talk won't give him a chance to answer he says well what suits your taste god with form with the formless reality but to tell you the truth he who was formless is also endowed with form now for sharabi Krishna this means that there's an Ultimate Reality can manifest in different ways to different for different people he gives that uh this uh example of what is Brahman like he said Brahman is like water and then he'll explain that water will take the different shape and have different names and everything but one of the same they can freeze into eyes one and the same it's still water it never this is an interesting thing about water when it takes a shape it's still formless it never loses that as soon as you break the the contender then then we know that there's no shape of its own but it can take any shape says others will say informed us it can't take any shape or if it has a form then it can't be formless the topper had this this very subtle understanding and direct experience of course so he says but to tell you the truth he who was formless has also endowed with form to which does he reveals himself as having a form so this form is not any one form it can be a variety of different forms like the chameleon can appear in different colors it is like a great ocean an infinite expanse of water without any traits of shore here and there some of the water has become Frozen intense cold has turned it into ice now when water is frozen into ice it takes a particular form but not absolute form it could be any type of form it can melt it can constantly change and even then it's nothing but water same just the appearance is different otherwise the same so here and and there some of the water has be has been frozen intense cold has turned it into ice just so under the cooling influence so to speak of the bhakta's love love the infinite appears to take a form now Kaku explains this in two different ways one this is a very subjective way of looking at it it's because of my desire to see God in a certain way that I'll see God that way the other is that God knows I want to see him in a certain way he'll appeared in that way a little more objective which one it is who God knows but any other two different ways of trying to understand the same thing again the ice melts when the Sun rises it becomes water as before just so one who follows The Path of Knowledge the path of discrimination does not see the form of God anymore to him everything is formless the ice melts into formless water with the rise of the son of knowledge but Mark this form and formlessness belong to one and the same reality so he asked that question and he didn't wait for an answer and he explains that it's not a really it's not a good question that it's not an either or is it both end we should try to see the the truth in both uh spiritual attitudes and ways of looking at things at dusk the master was ready to start for dakshineshwar he stood in the South poor porch of the drawing room talking to ishan someone remarked that the chanting of God's holy name did not always produce results ishan said how can you say that ishan was very much devoted to uh to the Japan you'll remember he is the one who wanted to do this Buddhist of this Gayatri Mantra and to spend all of his time doing japa and and had a special little house that built that he could go and do spiritual practices he was uh I think about roughly 10 years older than Swami Krishna I I looked it up earlier he I think he died in 19 98 at the age of 73. so what will that do anybody good with math so let's subtract one from the other 72 98 so that's 26. 36 so 10 years older yeah and uh swamiji was very good friends with his son and actually stayed with him when they went to where did they go barely hear something one of those places they stayed in the house of his son so they will go transformative praise this this ishan very much he used to say that vidyasagar was was no more charitable than this ishan was and we know he was considered the most a charitable person so this Isha and he said how can you say that the seeds of an ashwatha tree or no doubt tiny but in them like the germs of big trees it may take a very long time for them to grow yes yes said the master it takes a long time to see the effect sometimes we hear devotees complain they don't see themselves making progress and they're wondering what they're doing if this life is going by but the seed is germinating huh is germinating and we'll find out at the end uh how great it becomes and the little seed how much devotion can come at the end of life okay we'll stop here because now takur is going to leave ishan's house and go to ishan's father-in-law's house so we'll begin there next time I like this kind of yoga don't get me wrong it's uh there's a certain Beauty to it and uh everybody likes you everybody likes that's why everybody likes it yeah and really that's that's what attracted me to vidanta it was only because if there's there's so logical and beautiful and clear and it's something that can be realized we can all realize on this just all right in the depths of our hearts we can feel that yes I exist I am that Consciousness that other words we ought to have some some sense to that so uh there's a path of of knowledge is something very very special but if we can if we can combine it if we can have a devotional relationship with God and we can do it through the Avatar we can do it through SRI Krishna holy mother we can we can do that to worship the Avatar is the same as worshiping personal God talk with you he explains it this way so okay let's close with our chant um [Music] [Music] we bow our heads before srama Krishna who is stainless of infinite nature whose heart melts and sympathy for his devotees who is an embodiment of the Divine and the Supreme Lord and ever worthy of our worship foreign [Music] [Music]