Video 92

92. Bhagavad Gita I Chapter 7 Verses 6-7 I Swami Sarvapriyananda

[Music] so in the bhagavad-gita we are on chapter seven this chapter is called gyanavidyana yoga the yoga of knowledge and special knowledge on gyana and bigyana that that comes from the um second verse which we have already done where krishna tells arjuna that i'm going to get tell you about ghyana knowledge and vigna the higher knowledge after which nothing more remains to be known now as i have mentioned earlier from the seventh chapter onwards that you'll find a great emphasis on the nature of god uh one might think well it's a religious book so we're going to talk about god anyway but yes but there are um these three phases to the bhagavad gita we discussed this earlier the great vedantic teaching that thou art tattva masi if you look at it that way in that framework then the nature of thou that means the sentient being us that was the focus in the first six chapters and then in the next six chapters starting from the seventh one the focus is primarily on that that means god and then the last six chapters the focus will be the identity of that and thou and again this is a very broad framework there are lots of things in between which won't exactly fit into this framework but broadly speaking and it is true that from chapter 7 onwards we will talk more and more about or more than we have been talking about god so the nature of god what is god what is this universe who are we that is being talked about a very very important few uh verses here um verses number four and five we did that yes last time let me just chant those two again and we'll go on this is a very important two verses [Music] the earth and the water and the fire and space air and space um mind and intellect and ego all of these are my lower nature and it's pretty interesting that this division is made all of this god says or avatar of god krishna says this is my lower nature but if you look at it you know one interesting thing strikes us that whatever we can con whatever we experience whatever we know of this universe all of it comes into this lower nature first of all this universe um you know stars and planets and galaxies and living beings and non-living beings you know mountains on this earth mountains and deserts and oceans and rivers the air and the water all of it all of it is what material nature and in the ancient cosmology it is all these five elements the space and air and the fire and you know water and earth or in modern terms all these um you know veritable zoo of sub subatomic particles as one particle physicist put it you know quarks and so on so forth so all of these uh they this total totality of material nature everything that you know including including what we know about ourselves which material science yet does not you know have a good grasp upon for example he says not only this universe not only ought to see even all living beings our bodies are made of these five elements they are living bodies but they are made of these five elements so the bodies of all living beings and external physical nature all of it plus what else do we know we know that there is an another dimension to us our inner being most important to us our thoughts our feelings our ideas memories our personality our minds intellect and most important closest central to all of us is i the ego i the i sense and here krishna says all of it the external universe including our bodies and the internal universe our thoughts feelings emotions all of that all of that put together is my lower nature then what could be the higher nature um what else is this there well there is consciousness so here a clear demarcation is made between consciousness and its objects everything else is an object to consciousness material nature is an object to consciousness external universe is an object to consciousness our own bodies object to consciousness our thoughts our emotions our memories our ideas even i the ego object to consciousness apart from all of this is consciousness itself and then he says all of this is my lower nature and apart from all of this is consciousness is my higher nature and this higher nature said oh so that is god no that's you it says it is the sentient being it's your real nature we think i but i am this conglomeration of this body and my thoughts and feelings my personality and yes if you insist awareness i'm conscious also i'm aware also all of it bundled together i am but here krishna says no no no in you there are these two sides to you one is all of which you described your physical body a living body plus your thoughts feelings emotions the inner world you have got of your personality but there's also another side to you you are aware you are a conscious being and that's not just one aspect of many things that is a central aspect that's what you really are you really are consciousness and that is my higher nature that's my real nature whose real nature your real nature and god says god's real nature he says my higher nature my real nature is consciousness is your real nature which is consciousness but you have an overlay of mind and body and you have forgotten your real nature you mixed it up with mind and body and you think you are an individual little sentient being a jiva a single sentient being separated from this vast universe separated from all other millions and billions of sentient beings um the birth and death of the body which is lower nature you have taken it upon yourself say my birth my death my aging my suffering there is suffering aging of the body sickness in the body reflected in the mind as pain and unhappiness all of it is lower nature and you are illumining all of it and experiencing all of it because you are consciousness that consciousness is my higher nature my higher nature here means atma bhutan shankaracharya says my own self that means god's own self god's own nature is consciousness or awareness but that it's a pure awareness or awareness itself what we think of as awareness is awareness plus mind it's the awareness which is already mixed up in thoughts feelings emotions the ego sense so um by that consciousness by the real nature the entire universe is upheld or entire universe is supported what does it mean the entire universe is supported it means this this particular body first of all is enlivened activated because of the presence of awareness you consciousness coming into the subtle body you light it up then thoughts are experienced feelings are experienced ideas are experienced memories are experienced all of which is in the subtle body but it becomes experience once consciousness shines upon it consciousness shining upon the subtle body if you remember vedanta it's called chidaba is a reflected consciousness now not only this happens but the subtle body also constitutes is constituted with prana the energy so that energy now makes a life energy which enlivens the physical body now you have a body mind system an active capable because of your presence and here an ancient sanction saying is relevant sankan's saying it is um what does it mean every complex entity every compound entity is meant for something apart from that compound entity what does that mean that means suppose there's a bed a simple example the bed has a pillow and it has bed bed sheets it has a mattress and there may be a comforter now all of that is meant for you it's not meant for itself the comforter is not there for the mattress the pillow is not there for the bed sheets or the bed sheets are not there for the pillow they're all arranged for something quite apart from the bed which is you here is a house you live in there doors and ceiling and floors and electrical equipment and washroom and you know the plumbing all of it is meant for something quite apart from the house which is the dweller of the house who has really no connection with the house as such but the house is constructed entirely for the use your use yet you are not part of the house the door has not been made for the plumbing and the plumbing has not been made for the electricity it is all there for you so this is this is called sounded entities are meant for the use or for the purpose of another another means something apart from the compounded entity so this here you can see just as an aside just think this is quite different from the materialist reductionist point of view according to the materialist reductionist point of view which is adopted by mainstream science today is this entire universe this is a complex entity why is it there for no purpose it's just there it's not there for anybody's purpose or any entity's purpose and big bang created it and the universe came into existence over millions and billions of years you have stars and galaxies planets and all of that and then life evolved somehow and then the process of darwinian evolution took over now you have voila you have you and i and him and her we are here for what purpose no purpose just accident it's all accidental so that is um the materialist perspective but sankhya says if it's a complex entity it is meant for another so the whole material universe is meant for something else why am i saying this just as this entire physical body which is there is meant for you the conscious and indweller who activates the physical body because of you this physical body is active and not only that in a long in the long run or in the big picture it is because of you the universe exists who has created the universe god has created the universe according to vedantas the absolute with the power of maya has created this universe why why for what purpose for you for me what what are we to do with this universe it gives us experience and it enables us to evolve spiritually until we realize our true nature so this is the idea in ancient sankhya and also of course vedanta all these philosophies they say that this entire game of this universe entire game of life is meant for our spiritual evolution and enlightenment to reach to experience and reach our infinitude and to enable us to see our own godhood why would god do all this for us because god says you are my own very own you are my nature you and i are one reality so if somebody says no no it's a god's play another way of putting is the whole universe is the play of god correct it's the same thing it is god alone who has become us and for our own sake for our own spiritual evolution this universe is uh created and be experiencing so in one sense it is god's plea we are all part of that god's plan leela they call it a quick summary of what we did last time within a few sentences um the entire vedantic cosmology how does it work the ultimate reality is brahman existence consciousness with satchit ananda uh this is the absolute reality of nilguna brahman nirna brahma plus maya the power of maya is called saguna brahma god with attributes or the absolute wit attributes becomes the god of religion ishwara sagun abram what is called you know shiva or vishnu or narayana or devi in various streams of hinduism or the ik omkar in sikhism or the other theistic religions god in christianity or allah in islam or yahuwah in judaism how am i so easily saying that they are all the same notice the definition in each of them is the same who is allah or god or you know vishnu or shiva it is that power which creates this universe the creator one common idea in all theistic religions it's the power which creates the universe it's one so it's that one power which creates the universe is common definition in all the religions then they must be talking about the same thing itself so um saguna brahman now what does it do from it appears the five elements uh air and space a space and air and fire and water and earth the old cosmology and these five elements are in a subtle stage they combine to form our minds and in subtle bodies which consists of mind intellect uh memory uh if it consists of the ego and plus the pranas the life forces they're all constituted by the five subtle elements further the five subtle elements further combined with each other those who remember vedanta sarah you remember panchi karanam the quintiplication the five-fold mixing which produces the five gross elements or five physical elements again space physical space uh physical uh air and fire and water and earth out of a combination of which has been has formed the visible experienced universe our these bodies and these worlds we live in all of these are formed by the five gross elements and this game is going on and this universe goes through cycles it is produced it exists for a while for a while means a very very long while and then it whatever has been put together will fall apart so it goes back into the state of dissolution during its production or creation in sanskrit srishti and while it is held together in sanskrit stiti and when it finally dissolves collapses upon itself that is called pralaya swishtis titi pranaya projection or creation sustenance or existence and then finally dissolution of the universal collapse of the universe but don't be disappointed it's going to happen again and again and again so it's this huge cycle over billions of years which repeats itself throughout it all it is consciousness plus maya or saguna brahman which is doing all of this um so this is the this is the vedantic cosmology this is what is going on but it is basically for our spiritual evolution that this whole game is going on that's why krsna says here the entire universe is supported by these sentient beings we don't we feel that i am not supporting this universe i am just a tiny miserable fraction of it but yet it is for our sake that uh our heavenly father or mother is uh playing this game of the universe it will go on until we reach enlightenment now the next two verses are also very important these four verses when krishna says here i will give you guyana and vigna knowledge with special knowledge it is basically he means these four verses four five six seven sixth verse [Music] know that all beings have these two for their origin i am the origin of the entire universe as also its destroyer all right ether diorini this is the source of the entire universe what is this this lower nature and higher nature this combination it's not consciousness alone it's not a material universe alone it's this combination of consciousness and a material universe which is what we experience right now around us what is materialism materialism says it's a material universe alone then what is consciousness consciousness is a by-product an epi phenomenon somehow like a candle burning it produces a flame similarly a physical biochemical process is going on in this physical body it produces consciousness so what you think yourself to be a conscious being it's just a byproduct it's just the dance of neurons it's biochemical reactions going on somebody said according to a materialist reductionist worldview there is no fundamental difference between us you know living sentient beings and the fizz in a soda bottle like a coca-cola a bottle if you open it it bubbles and pizzas it's just a chemical reaction going on there similarly in this body also chemical reaction is going on therefore it produces us that's one way of looking at it that's the materialist way of looking at it but according to what krishna is saying there are actually these two realities there's this material reality and there is this consciousness and both are um the both are the nature of one reality that's a very interesting thing he has said he says actually both are one reality that is i god or saguna brahmana second how is this possible because we saw uh earlier how consciousness plus maya produces or projects and sustains and destroys the material universe all the five elements and their play that's the material universe and on this side is consciousness this consciousness has two aspects two aspects means its original nature as consciousness plus maya god and also its jiva nature sentient being as reflected in all these little bodies and minds and in ignorance somehow or the other not knowing ourselves and thinking of ourselves as little perishable sentient beings jeeves um and this is ignorance this is not not the plan of god and it's not god's wish how do we know if it was god's wish we could have never done otherwise but we can overcome this ignorance and realize our true identity with god it is possible that's what we are all trying to do so krishna here says the combination of consciousness plus material bodies and minds is all these beings sarvani bhutani all beings here all living beings from the tiniest microbe to the mightiest elephant or blue whale to all of us human beings and even if there be beings in heaven you know angels and devatas and gods and all all those are combination of lower nature and higher nature a combination of a material nature and the consciousness how does consciousness interact with material nature again vedantas our consciousness is reflected in the buddhi in the intellect in the mind as reflected consciousness and that's the consciousness that we feel right now when i say i and try to feel i you see it's a distinct thought i and it's also an aware thought you'll always notice i think of that i as a mirror when you see a mirror your face is reflected in the mirror exactly like that you the pure consciousness when that eye thought comes up you are reflected in that eye thought and that i thought lights up as a as unconscious aware i only problem is is that i forget myself that i do not know somehow that i am this pure consciousness and i start thinking i am that shining eye what is moksha one sadhu nutra can put it nicely world will go on in its own way an appearance in maya body will also go on it has been born it is going on it will age it will succumb ultimately you will walk and talk and eat mind will also go on thinking feeling remembering waking dreaming sleeping mind that is all mind prana will also go on breathing in and breathing out and becoming hungry and assimilating food and so on all of these activities will go on as like a film show in maya and in this mind hindi he said your twinkling like a star twinkling in the mind will be your reflection the reflection of you the consciousness when you know that it spears the mind here i am reflected in the mind as this little flash of awareness in the mind but this is me the unlimited awareness this is moksha this is mukti the clear freedom from this little personality this little personality will go on and the mind will go on thinking and willing and doing whatever it's doing and in the mind we'll go on this little flash of awareness this twinkling of awareness but you'll see the mind and the twinkling of awareness is not you it's not you you're completely free of it and that is moksha bhutani the word is bhutani bhutani means elemental what are the elements space air fire water earth akasha um agni and this has there are five subtle elements and then they have five gross forms um again the gross a space air fire water and earth so here he means not only the subtle elements but now he's talking about the gross elements grows five grows elements are five physical elements and all these beings are because of this interaction of consciousness this higher nature and lower nature sarvani bhutani all living beings but also they're the non-living material nature this is consciousness plus material nature i'm just thinking um david chalmers when he talks about pan psychism that consciousness is an all-pervasive reality in this physical universe he thinks of it as another physical reality or material reality some kind of material reality he's not very far from this idea of the what krishna is saying higher nature and lower nature the two realities consciousness and material nature all right um sarvani bhutani then he says i am the the source the sustenance and the destruction literally here of the entire universe i am the origin and the place of dissolution or the destruction the place where everything is destroyed i god consciousness plus maya of this entire universe so what is the cause of see everything that we know has a cause it's produced by something else we we produced by our parents but our parents their bodies also were produced ultimately but from the food that they ate and the food that they ate has come from this earth and it's a mixture of the five elements the earth itself is a product if you trace it back what is the cause of the earth also what is the cause of this physical universe the best that we can do now we trace it back to a big bang so if you go to the science museum here uh the planetarium in the museum of natural history will actually there will be a huge explosion a big bang certainly and lots of particles will come out with lots of radiation over time they will cool down and many more particles will be formed the first proto stars will be formed and from there other material will come out which will now condense into planets and planetoids and you know uh meteor comets and so on and the planet will cool down and from there you know it'll be the oceans will be there often i mean it's pretty interesting um space and then there's some vibration there's a big bang and then fire radiation and then there is planets with water bodies in the water and then the land emerges literally some this is so interesting to see space and from their air and from their fire and from their water and from their land and then emerges our living beings all these living bodies and so forth that is called creation from our perspective scientific perspective the big bang is the furthest that we can go if you ask before the big bang they'll only say there is a singularity from perspective of physics but what is that singularity and what caused that singularity religion will say there is a power beyond that also and krishna here is saying i consciousness plus maya saguna brahman am the cause of that singularity which sets in motion this entire universe that is called creation now um the definition of god always involves this in the brahma sutras the sutras on brahman the first sutra is pathato brahmajir hence therefore an inquiry into brahman so all of these each of these words have long commentaries detailed commentaries by shankaracharya but anyway the question arises an inquiry into brahman fine but what is brahman the second sutra etc of this from which is cryptic what does that mean if you expand it that reality from which this universe was born in which it exists into which it shall finally disappear only to be reborn that reality is called brahman in sanskrit asiya jagata so that is brahman from which this entire universe it it is born in which it exists and into which it finally disappears one good way of understanding this is looking at our dream experiences think about it when we fall asleep we forget this world we forget our bodies we forget that weeping and a world of dreams appears in which there is there are people indeed you are there yourself and activities are going along and you're meeting people and things are happening um there is space there is a dream space and you don't know you are dreaming it looks like a normal world there is space and there is air and water and earth and so on fire and all of that and time is there space and time are there some kind of causality is also there so all of this is produced by you you with the unique powers of your dreaming mind you with the unique powers of your dreaming mind because of sleep the cause is actually sleep which hides the reality of the waking from you because of that a dream world is produced by you plus the sleeping or dreaming mind exactly like that god whose unlimited consciousness plus maya produces this universe this waking universe of ours and while the universe while the dream universe remains it is you who is upholding it isn't it as long as you keep dreaming that place will be there those people will be there that dream will continue if you wake up it will disappear none of that exists without your dreaming it's your dreaming which is sustaining the dream universe so in the exactly the same way it is god plus maya which sustains even at this moment moment to moment it sustains this existence and then finally destruction pralaya praliya means dissolution of destruction what happens to the dream universe when you wake up it disappears into what into your mind where it came up it disappears like the movie screen in which the movie appeared and existed and will also disappear back into the screen exactly like that the dream universe disappears back into your dreamer's mind when you fold it all up and get up exactly like that this physical universe also is resolved back into um into um into maya the power of consciousness at the end of the universe so i have told this story earlier also one of the stories i read in childhood a science fiction story about the end of the universe so very interesting it's a common idea in indian cultures that it's the universe goes through cycles creation exists for billions of years disappears and again it's created and so on so this is a buddhist story this i forgotten the name of the author a very nice story where it is some ibm engineers in their in the 1960s they get a contract from tibet this this was before the chinese invasion so late 50s or some uh late 50s probably so they get a contract from tibet from the dalai lama and of at that time that we need a computer in those days the computer in those days so the engineers they fly to india to nepal and from there they go to tibet with a with a caravan of the axe they have the disassembled computer plus generators because there's no electricity in the monastery there in the mountains of debate tibet and it's a very nice story so there they reached the monastery and the tibetan llamas welcomed them so they ask what do you need the computer for and then they tell a story that we have this ancient prediction that these these sutras are there they are the 9 billion names of god yes that's the name of the story nine billion names of god so there is nine billion names of god and we have to chant them and uh once the chanting is finished the universe will disappear the universe is going to disappear so it's a bit of a bit of a mixed up story because now we know the tibetan llamas don't believe in god anyway so the theistic god is not part of the religion but this the author made a nice story about it so he said that now the engineers don't believe any of it they think it's it's a superstition but anyway they have a contract and the llamas tell them we have been chanting for a thousand years now but we still haven't completed the nine billion names of god but we have heard of these amazing machines made by ibm so it can chant much faster than us so can you program it to change the remaining names of god so the universe will come to an end the engineers think what superstition anyway it's a contract so we'll have to fulfill it so they put the come in the computer together fire up the generators and make the punch cards and whatnot and then they're going to have the grand inauguration the computer will start churning out the remaining names of god last few million names of god and they calculated it just take a few hours and then the whole chanting will be over now the engineers think that look very soon these monks will realize nothing is going to happen i mean so obviously the universe won't come to an end we have to make good our escape because otherwise they might get angry at us and they beat us up so so they make their escape at night when the computer is still chanting and you know the tibetan plateau covered with snow it's very beautifully depicted and these engineers as far as i remember the engineers are sneaking away from the monastery and the llamas are busy waiting for the nine billion names to end the universe to end and in the dark in the snow they're hurrying along to get as far away possible from the monastery before the llamas go wild and then one of the engineers that's the end of the story that's the twist in the tale of the story last it's quite thrilling one of the engineers says look look up at the sky and they look up at the sky and they see the stars were beginning to disappear great darkness for spreading across the universe so the universe is ending actually so so there's a very interesting story so this is something that is common to all the indian cultures that the universe goes through multiple cycles of creation existence and destruction somebody got hold of the story i think yes the nine billion names of god who is the author the very famous writer is it arthur c clarke or um oh it's a famous story arthur c clark yes right right good read it if you like you might you might enjoy it so they go through these cycles and here so the definition of god is always where the cycles of the universe are because of god so here he says from me i am the um of the entire universe i'm the source and the existence of this universe i am the destruction i am the place where the universe disappears finally finally again to reemerge in the future now let's go deeper than this the seventh mantra sutra eva higher than myself there is nothing else in me all this is strung like gems in a string all right a very deep verse here here he says i am the first cause i am the material cause and indeed i am beyond all cause and effect i'll repeat that i am the first cause and the material caused and indeed i'm beyond all cause and effect what does it mean remember this chapter is about god the real nature of god so we are going to see the three different deeper and deeper understanding of god the first understanding of god is the god the creator preserve and destroy the universe which is already said god is not only the creator but also preserver and destroyer sustainer dissolver of this universe that is the personal god worshiped in religions what is called so krishna is saying here i am the avatar of my real nature is vishnu the personal god which all vaishnavas worship or the same thing might be worshipped as shiva by all shaivas or as the divine mother devi by all shaktas the worshipers of shakti or if you take it as you know the god worshiped by christians and muslims and the jews theistic god which by the way the llamas in the tibetan monastery actually don't believe in all that but at that time arthur c clark didn't know all that um all right now a deeper meaning of this let's go in a more profound conception of god god is the creator of the universe but what is the material of the substance out of which god this universe is created already krishna has answered two natures my material nature and my consciousness nature lower nature and my higher nature material universe the five elements and so on mind and all of that and consciousness so just as the material continues in the effect i'll repeat the material cause continues in the effect clay which you make into parts what happens to the clay it's right there now you're calling it a pot water which appears as waves in the ocean so it's a wave what happened to the ocean water it's right there now you're calling it a wave see the cause the material of the wave is water the material of the pot is clay and where is the clay when the part is there when is the clay there itself it is the clay that part is the clay and where is the water when there is a wave it is the water it's the water itself you say what is the material cause of a dream universe it's the dreaming mind okay but when there i'm seeing this dream universe people and space and time and all the wonderful things happening in a dream or the frightening things happening in a dream where is the mind there itself whatever you are seeing is actually the mind though it doesn't look like a mind it feels like real people and real things similarly god is the material cause of this universe made of what lower nature higher nature what he just already said therefore when you experience this universe right now you are experiencing god you are experiencing god in the form of space and air and fire and water and earth you're experiencing god in the form of mind and intellect and memory and ego you are experiencing god as the self-shining consciousness which you think yourself which you see yourself to be all of this is nothing other than the material cause of this universe which is god it is in this sense that god pervades the universe it is in this sense that god sustains the universe what sustains the part what is the reality of the part what holds it together clay what sustains the wave water what sustains the universe in a dream mind so in the same way it is god through his lower and higher nature who sustains this universe right now and that means the material cause of this universe is god the lower nature and the higher nature of god so whenever we encounter the lower nature and higher nature of god let us not forget we are encountering god this is what swami vivekananda said we hindus worship a transcendent imminent god a transcendent imminent god so you have two conceptions of god one is that the personal god shiva vishnu devi god of the father in heaven or allah of jehovah the personal god who creates this entire universe a deeper analysis reveals the cosmic god the imminent god who is in and through this universe this is a point of huge debate and controversy and endless violence in uh especially in islam and the controversies in judaism and christianity also how far will we admit that god exists in the universe because if you make god existing in the universe isn't there a danger of pantheism taking the universe as god then chairs and tables are gone this is a very serious question this is exactly the question which narendra nada asks sriram krishna when it first hears about advaita he says what nonsense is the are the pots and pans god the doors and chairs the tables and chairs are the god are the rishis the the sages of the upanishads are they crazy suryam krishna of course did not give any arguments he just touched narendra natasha and saw it to be so the same divinity pervading everything but we do not have that power so we have to rely on our poor intellect to try to understand what is being said here transcendent but imminent also in and through as the material cause of this universe everything here is nothing but god so this is the deeper understanding of god first understanding personal god second understanding transcendent imminent god cosmic god hear what you're seeing now even deeper he says i am the highest supreme there's nothing beyond me which means the absolute nirguna brahman talked about in advaita vedantis also i so go a little further so all is god here is saying no if you go further again it's not that all is god only god is so advaita is not pantheism it's not that everything here is god you say but swami you just said that everything is god no god know this it's not that god has become the universe it's that the universe is not god alone is when you dream does your mind actually become houses start stones and rivers and trees and dogs and cats and people no without actually becoming anything mind remaining mind all of these appear and you can experience it brahman the ultimate reality remaining the ultimate reality because of the power of maya the appearance of the universe without god actually becoming space and air and fire and water and earth without god actually becoming mind and intellect and ego without god actually becoming stars and planets and mosquitoes and blue whales it all appears to be so from the perspective of pure consciousness that transcendent real reality nirguna brahman i am that's my real nature so you have three conceptions deeper and deeper conceptions of god the first conception is the god of religion the personal god whom we adore worship in real you can be devotees can experience this god as um you know meera experienced krishna or sri ramakrishna experienced kali the divine mother as the personal god the deeper understanding of god is the cosmic god god who is transcendent imminent beyond this universe and yet appearing in and through this entire universe as its material cause what material lower nature higher nature already mentioned and beyond that neither the cause of this universe nor the effect of this universe what is the effect of the universe this universe itself is the effect in sanskrit cardia what is the cause of this universe higher nature lower nature in sanskrit karna so the cause and effect of this universe it's a second understanding beyond cause and effect beyond causality nir guna brahman the absolute of advaita vedanta where one without a second there is only one reality existence consciousness place without a second that's my highest or ultimately real nature so three understandings of god as again look at it this way in the first understanding of god personal god where are we in there we are the devotees some are some believe in it some do not believe the non-believers are you know those who are atheists they don't believe in god and we believe in god we are devotees the lord is all perva is omniscient omnipresent omnipotent all-knowing all-powerful present everywhere um and is the one who protects the devotee grants the prayers of the devotee uh gives peace and security to the devotee frees the devotee from the bonds of samsara but this is the lord i am the i'm different from the lord i'm the devotee we are different maybe i am the servant of the lord or a devotee or a child of the lord the lord is my mother or father or master but as you go deeper the cosmic god god who is everything transcendent in an imminent god then i cannot be different from that god i the individual now i become a tiny part of that god god is the whole of which i am a part so i'm a part of an organic divine unity then we go to the third conception of god as the non-dual reality which only appears as this universe but there's no reality to the universe at all it has not become anything the non-dual reality alone exists then i and that reality are one reality i have and in that case i am not the body not the mind both are appearances i am consciousness god is consciousness and it's one consciousness without any division without any part of whole or part then i am that ahamram has me notice we have gone through dwayth the dualistic approach where there's a difference a real difference between us and the divine and then the difference is erased the difference only becomes one of part and whole we are part of a divine whole and then no part and whole either there is only one non-dual we have we come to non-dualism that's the third and the deepest understanding of god that we get here completeness so this is what he calls the knowledge and special knowledge guyana vigna which he promised krishna promise by the way when you say avatar incarnation krishna is an incarnation incarnation of whose incarnation which conception of god admits to an incarnation it's possible it's the first one personal god krishna is incarnation of vishnu or narayana the incarnation comes from the personal god personal god's incarnation it comes for the devotee why not the cosmic god in that case we are all incarnations of the personal uh of the cosmic god god which is everything so all of us are manifestations of that that god and if you go further the non-dual uh divinity of advaita vedanta there's no incarnation is possible because no manifestation is permitted there at all it's only one reality without a second and the great thing is all three are possible all three paradigms are possible you can apply them here and now exactly as this world is now it's not that the world has to be destroyed and then only you will understand that non-dual reality the world all has to be merged together into an indistinguishable mass then we are all part of it no even as it is now even as we seem scattered in time and space seem to be locked into individual bodies and separate from each other actually right now we can relate to the divine as devotee and god or we can see ourselves as part of one ocean of divinity or we can see ourselves as one reality in that one non-dual reality i am brahmana okay let's take the questions this actually okay just me let me just give the example which krishna has given sutra maniganaiva just like um a string a thread on which i put pearls of a necklace i am like the string on which pearls of a necklace are put so i am the support of this universe means i i keep the necklace together the thread which is not seen which runs through all the pearls in the pearl there is the thread and it runs through all the pearls and it keeps the universe and keeps the necklace together like that and the thread which runs through this entire universe of all living and non-living beings as what as their material nature as their cause as the material cause what is that material cause lower nature higher nature the what was mentioned in fourth and fifth verses so i am like a string which runs through all the pearls of the necklace i am the support which runs through the entire universe shankaracharya in his commentary he gives another example deer ghatantu patashu like a long thread which has been woven into a cloth so here's a cloth but it's made of thread so i am the thread which has been woven into a cloth but the claws is nothing but the thread wherever you touch the cloth it's the thread itself looks like a piece of cloth but everywhere it's the thread itself similarly i am the thread which is in in which is woven the the universe i'm the warp and the woof of this universe basically i am the constituent of this universe this is the second conception of god the imminent transcendent imminent being which constitutes this entire universe okay let's take the questions we go with peter hello peter good to see you you have to uh unmute yourself swamiji i actually i think i may have raised my hand by mistake but uh okay sorry yeah right that's one question dissolved uh are you uh here in new york or in iceland oh thanks for asking no i'm here in new york uh my wife and i got back from iceland i think six months ago so but yeah we were there for about two months yeah okay okay that's good to know let's look at the questions in the chat one question is is there so dhyana what is soviet i'm not pretty sure we'll come back to that later this time shortly says what are the attributes of consciousness good question what are the attributes of consciousness is somebody shaking their head yes you're right none everything is an attribute of consciousness and nothing is because everything appears in consciousness therefore you can see everything plants animals tigers and wolves and stars and planets all that is experienced in consciousness are the ornaments of consciousness thoughts and feelings and emotions but they are not attributes of consciousness they don't belong to consciousness they are appearances in consciousness it's like the screen on which the movie plays so you have villains uh and who you have good people heroes and villains i remember the first movie i saw i don't remember much about it but my father had taken me to cinema hall to see a movie and i remember that much i uh i was bugging my father i just wanted to know whether this person was a good person or a bad person so is is he the goodie or the baddie um my father would have to whisper it to me ah then i would be satisfied now is the screen a goodie or a baddie so you say none it has nothing to do with the screen of the movie but it the screen enables the goody and the body to appear and do their thing similarly consciousness has no attributes you might ask here are we supposed to believe it is there any reason behind it there is everything that is revealed in consciousness is an object and is not consciousness so whatever is revealed in consciousness is an object an attribute must be revealed see if consciousness has an attribute would it be knowable or unknowable if it is knowable then it's an object it doesn't belong to consciousness if it is unknowable it's not objectifiable then what's the point of talking about it what kind of an attribute would it be so even logically consciousness does not have uh attributes or characteristics it doesn't have what did that what does that mean it doesn't have size doesn't have weight it doesn't have an extension in space it doesn't have um you know duration in in time it doesn't have um you know color or shape it doesn't have texture or a feel to it even it's not rough or smooth it's not happy or sad none of these apply to consciousness but because of consciousness all these are experienced girish says why are we deluded our true nature in the first place is it an evolutionary construct inherent in the object world so this is the question which will come up once in a while every month or so somebody has to ask this question why you know my a strictly logical answer which i'll give you which satisfied me actually the strictly logical answer is this uh is the question is wrong so i'm vivekananda says the question itself is wrong why is the question wrong one might ask why is the question wrong because notice what are you asking when you ask why is there delusion or ignorance let's call it why is there ignorance in the first place um you are asking for an explanation you're asking for a cause of ignorance but as i said ignorance is maya and it's constituted of three things time space and causation so causation is part of the very structure of the or the constituent constitution of ignorance now it makes no sense to ask why is there causation just like does not make any sense to ask what is outside space moment you say outside you have already accepted space there is space then there is only outside inside it doesn't make sense to say what is before time because the moment you say before you've already accepted before and after a time words accepted time moment you ask why is there ignorance you're asking why is there causation what is causation why and an answer to why cause and effect you see an effect and you ask why you have to you are asking for a cause you've already accepted causation when you ask why you've already accepted ignorance when you ask why about ignorance in maya in the world of maya you can ask why for everything but for maya itself you can't ask why because the moment you ask why you accepted causation think think it through it took me quite some time to see what what an elegant answer that is to the question why is the question wrong it's because the question is self-defeating or you can put it in a much more simple way i think it was ashayshan and the gr one of the swamis on the on the west coast who said on this side of enlightenment we have the question but not the answer on that side of enlightenment the enlightened ones they have the answer but they don't have a question notice it doesn't seem to bother them why is this universe there at all nobody who's attained enlightenment who is like a advanced spiritual seeker or a saint enlightened being in any religion any none of them at the end of their you know spiritual lives when they have attained god realization or beatitude or whatever it is will they say that one problem remains why is there ignorance or delusion nobody nobody asks that so that means it's not a problem for them anymore bill says it's amazing that the contents of the mind and brain activities are more or less coordinated true but if the if it's an instrument it would be coordinated it's like the coordination between the steering wheel of a car and the way it bait is going where the wheels turn and the way the car is going it will have an amazing coordination with the movement of the steering wheel because it's an instrument to guide the car similarly if consciousness is using the mind and the nervous system as instruments you would you would naturally see some kind of you know flicker there in the vedantic system it's not even consciousness in vedantic cosmology or sunken cosmology it is the mind which is using the brain so the contents of the mind the british in the mind are material notice what in fact krishna's statement here can answer bill's question when bill says it is amazing that the contents of the mind and brain activities are more or less coordinated in krsna's answer what is the lower nature the lower nature is the five elements mind intellect and ego what is the brain made of five elements the activities of the mind are material lower nature activities of the brain are material no lower nature mind and brain are interacting or somehow mind is using the brain therefore an activity in the mind can be reflected in the brain and should be reflected in the brain actually they are not entirely different the brain is the physical part of a system which extends to the mind and according to sankhya and vedanta mind and brain are both material they're both objects the problem starts with the decartian mind brain duality where he sees the mind as something entirely different the brain is something entirely different thus raising that the problem of interaction so descartes himself had to face this question how does this mind which is spiritual in nature according in the words used by descartes and the brain which is material in nature how do they interact where do they interact you see the problem where they will interact if they're entirely different where they interact that place must be either material or mental but it has to share in the characteristics of both otherwise how will it interact i think it was descartes who came up with the idea of the pineal gland with being the meeting place of the brain and the and the mind but in principle it doesn't solve the problem pineal gland is a physical place it's a part of the brain a nervous system so it it how does the mind even if it's the pineal gland how does it affect the pineal gland and the card goes on to say he digs the whole deeper and deeper if you see describes meditations he says there are vapors in our nerves and they are pushed along by our thoughts and those vapors push the activities in the brain but even the vapor must be material no matter how gaseous it is so how would a thought push a vapor around anyway so that's a big problem but in the course of the sunkyan or vedantic system both mind and the brain are material so they can interact in principle shava priya says when consciousness is reflected on buddhi so is it that once realization enlightenment the time taken does depend on the degree of the degree of buddhi depends on my karma degree of buddhi what would you mean by degree of buddhi it might say purity of the buddhi or the subtlety of the buddhi yes a good deal of it depends on our karma but what it depends upon the is the use that we put the buddhi to we if you use the apply the buddhi to vedantic analysis or let's say in a more liberal sense a spiritual path an enquiry then that buddhi will serve you that buddhi is already equipped to give you enlightenment it's just that we don't use the buddhi in that sense we use it to play the stock market we use it to make write novels or what not we use it for a variety of things we were just reading today in the morning the spiritual teachings of swami brahmananda where swami brahmananda tells a young man that the amount of energy that you put in you know passing examinations one twelfth of that energy he says he says it will be enough to reveal to you the teachings of the scriptures if you apply it to the scriptures one twelfth thesis that's enough and uh eventually lead you to enlightenment bill says um brahman not brahman brahman brahman is a brahman plus maya saguna brahman it sounds like maya is a separate reality yeah so in sankhya there are two realities consciousness and material nature whereas in vedanta it's one reality maya is the power of brahman if it's the power of brahman then why are you saying brahman plus maya because the power is also ultimately not of the same grade of reality as brahman itself brahman is reality itself it has this extraordinary power which produces this magical display but it is not a second reality apart from brahman just as sleep and the mind now the sleep has a unique power it makes the mind forget the waking state and it becomes the foundation for dreams without sleeping you can't dream but the sleep is not something separate from the mind it is the power inherent to the mind of course one way it's an imperfect example because the mind is active and you are again and again saying that brahman is not something that is doing things it's not dynamic but the mind is dynamic so imperfect example anyway maya is not a second reality to be a second reality it must be able to exist apart from brahman but it can't exist apart from brahman because nothing can exist apart from brahman because brahman is defined as existence itself just as a pot is not a second reality apart from the clay you see the clay is name and form then the name and form seem to be something apart from the clay it won't be you take the clay away name and form don't hang in the air it has no power except through through the clay itself maya itself which is the power of brahman has no ability to do anything not even exist without brahman sangeeta says so sleep here hides the reality of the waking world or the unreality of the waking world now here i am giving an example when you say sleep hides the reality of the waking world so makes dreams possible so i'm giving an example of waking and dreaming to explain how consciousness projects uh you know maya projects a universe the example is that when you dream if you see so many things in the dream and whatever you see in the dream is the sleeping mind the mind itself appears as all the entities in your dream so your sleeping mind dreaming mind is the material cause of all the people and objects and houses and cats and dogs whatever you see in the dream what is it made of it is made of the dreaming mind and dreaming mind is possible only because of sleep and sleep hides the waking world if it didn't hide the waking world you wouldn't be able to dream similarly maya hides our real nature and makes this world seem real now the unreality of the waking world that's that's vedanta that's already you're entering into vedanta don't mix up the example and the exemplified there's in sanskrit two words means example means what you want to illustrate so it's like snake and rope and brahmananda and the world and brahman the snake is the appearance by error not knowing the rope we think it's a snake the cause is not knowing the rope and the effect is seeing the snake so the ignorance of the rope hides the rope and reveals the or manifests the error called the snake similarly the ignorance of our real nature as brahman hides it from us and we who are already brahmana and makes this world appearance seem real even after knowing that you are brahman this world appearance will continue but you will know it is nothing other than brahman your own self-projected in all these ways sleep doesn't it hides the reality the waking world it doesn't hide the unreality of the waking world notice when you wake up from sleep do you realize the unreality of the waking world no if that could happen that would be very nice every day we would the moment you wake up from sleep you'll be enlightened the world is unreal i am brahmana no all that happens when you wake up from sleep is this is real that dream was false the only way of waking up from this this waking uh you know world i give a talk on this waking up from waking so awakening from baking only way of waking up is how through knowledge not by sleeping or making it by in the waking world when you engage in vedantic inquiry you you wake up from this this dream of the waking itself arthur c clarke 2001 space odyssey it was one of my favorite science fiction books they made a film about it which was very very popular a classic charles chaw athman seems very similar to individual soul yes is there an equivalent in vedanta for guardian angel i guess although your guru plays that role or just like the saints in the catholic church there are siddha purusas enlightened beings who would help you when kalpana says trying to understand would it be correct to say that the jeeves myself with this name and form exists for something else no this body and this mind this physical body this area and the mind is the subtle body to be more precise threefold body physical subtle and causal this combination this compound exists for you the sentient being does this exist for something else no it doesn't exist something else the whole thing exists for you in fact what krishna just said the entire universe actually exists for you this particular body exists for your enlightenment but also the entire game of the universe is played for your enlightenment and the enlightenment of all of us ultimately in either case what use would succeed in the have for the guys in assembly that you've done they wouldn't have any uh use for anything at all and there is nothing else after other than sachitha but we jivas under the influence of maya we do need all the help that we can get rick says if someone says god doesn't exist in the universe then they also say that they can't also say that god is only present omnipresent i know so in um christian theology they have ways of getting around it so god exists as spirit in the universe but not as the material cause of the universe then that would become dangerously pantheistic that got spinoza into trouble with the jewish elders because he is painted as pantheistic though i um a deeper understanding of the spinoza shows him much closer to vidant actually siddhartha says is purusa the same as nirguna brahman if so to realize that in gunbrahman do you need the state of nirvija and also used in the patanjali yoga and the corresponding reality in um advaita would be advaita vedanta would be nirguna brahman but here are major differences the purushas are many there are as many purishes as sentient beings they're all separate purushas in sankhya in yoga but nirguna brahman is one so we are all one unlimited consciousness moment you say many purushas then it raises many questions so many purusas means many consciousnesses then how can that consciousness be infinite because there is something other than you there is a material universe other than you prakriti entire vast material universe plus there are also many other consciousnesses apart from you i think it was heisenberg who said consciousness is that that which doesn't have a plural so sankhya how would sanchez continue to say that consciousness is infinite and yet say other than consciousness material universe is there other than this consciousness there are many other consciousnesses whereas the truly logical conception of the infinity of consciousness as one consciousness without a second material universe is an appearance in consciousness and the so-called many consciousnesses are because so many minds have reflected consciousness in them that's why they seem to be different givers but it's actually one reality one consciousness so these are the major differences between sankhya and advaita vedanta so moment you say purusha vedanta they will say purusha's need puna brahman but they will understand purusa in the advaithic sense not in the sankhyan sense i missed the first lecture in seventh chapter waiting for the recording it will be uploaded and there i explained the difference between ghana and beyond there's a lot of discussion on that yes it will come girishes is pancychism equivalent to vishishtadvaita not equivalent but pretty close i would say more than vishishta i would say pansysm is pretty close to sankhya what does sankhya say here is a material universe and also consciousness fundamental independent reality interacting with the material universe almost the same thing that pan psychism is saying what david chalmers is trying to propose when you experience god it is still an object and also how does shaytan give it a very good question this is the foundation for the shaitra and your field and knower of the field which will come in the 13th chapter what you have just said lower nature the field higher nature the knower of the field the jiva is the knower of the field and all the lower nature which he mentioned the five elements mind intellect ego all of that is the field so he will call this field and field noah in the 13th chapter same idea neerguna is not mentioned here bill says correct i am he caught it nicely i am extending the idea to nir guna that the absolute reality because this is the chapter about saguna brahman from seventh chapter onwards you will see the emphasis will be on so the not on the absolute srinivas raju is saying that is the same as abhinnan yes this is the statement from the vedanta sarah one undivided um instrumental cause and material cause of the universe what is what is the divided instrumental material cause like a carpenter when making a table out of wood wood is the material of the table carpenter is the is the intelligent cause let's say is the intelligent cause which makes the material into a table but in vedanta it's that's not true it's the same reality which is both the consciousness behind it and also the physical reality behind it all right is bliss an attribute of consciousness no from an advaithic perspective we're calling it bliss ananda but and it's experienced as bliss in the mind but it is just consciousness itself it is the very unlimitedness of consciousness one advaita teacher put it this way ananda is the purnatham is the wholeness or the unlimited unlimitedness the infinitude of consciousness that is when it's realized it's experienced as a tremendous freedom bliss and peace in the mind and you call it ananda oyanga says in many teachings silence bliss and light are considered attributes of consciousness beyond attributes of consciousness objects of consciousness then yes when in deep states of meditation or upon the enlightenment realization that i am unlimited awareness their effect will be the experience of silence and bliss and light in the mind yes so so many questions let's just bracket it off here we'll take it up next time oh [Music] sriracha namaste