Video 91

91. Bhagavad Gita I Chapter 7 Verses 3-5 I Swami Sarvapriyananda

[Music] [Music] guru so welcome back to the bhagavad-gita class we took a short winter break and today also we've got our first snow in new york this year's snow and we are making a new beginning in the bhagavad-gita class also because uh we have completed this up to the sixth chapter and we made a beginning of the seventh chapter isn't it last time when we ended we did the first two verses of seventh chapter it makes um it's a landmark actually because one way the bhagavad-gita can be classified is 18 chapters of course but 18 chapters can be classified into three sets of six chapters each chapters 1 to 6 chapters 7 to [Music] 12 and then 13 to 18 is the last six what is this classification about the it's based on the mahabharata that thou art as we know mahabharata is basically the essence of advaita vedanta whatever wants to say it can be said so elegant you know in one sentence that thou art now thou you dwam refers to the jiva the individual being you or i or all those people all sentient beings that is what's referred to as the student the one who is the vedantic enquirer that is the term u and an inquiry into the real nature of the you that is inquiry into dwam in sanskrit in the in vedanta it is called an inquiry into the reality of of uh the you the sentient being the jiva who am i basically the answer to the question who am i that means that here that means saguna brahmana ishwara and an inquiry into the nature of ishwara or saguna and when we do these then we get the identity that thou art and again you can see the how a whole of vedanta sarah was basically to come to that point to understand what is the meaning of that whole of vedanta basically culminates in this teaching now one way of looking at the bhagavad gita is that the first six chapters are pradhana which means primarily mainly about principally about the sentient being you what is my nature what is the answer to the question who am i that's what the first six chapters are primarily about why am i saying primarily because other things are also there but primarily for example in the second chapter straight away sri krishna goes into the nature of the atman who am i that you are not the body of the mind you are this pure consciousness which is immortal beyond change beyond birth and death that's what he teaches arjuna and that is the nature of the individual being now having done that in the first six chapters we come to the seventh chapter and the distinct change is noticed here chapter 7 to 12 is primarily about that what is that god what do i mean by god here what i mean by god is bhagavan shwara the god of religion the theistic religions worship god so in vaishnavism it is vishnu in shakthism in the shakta tradition it is the divine mother durga or kali and in shaivism it is shiva in islam it is allah in christianity it is the father in heaven and so on so the theistic god the god who is the god of religion that is the meaning of that and that is the subject of the chapters 7-12 and when we look at it we will see yes there is a certain logic to saying that because we will see from this chapter onwards the talk is mostly about god it's no longer about uh who am i i'm not the body i'm not the mind i'm the unchanging atman and the illuminati mind that part is done it is more about god how to realize that atman by the vedantic inquiry and how do i purify the mind by karma yoga that part is done chapter one to six but this now what will happen it is about god and the primary sadhana here will be bhakti there will be more and more talk of devotion of love that is chapters 7 to 12. again i'm saying primarily because other things are also there and then chapters 13 to 18 again will reaffirm the great identity that thou art plus many many other things lot of sadhana a lot of other things will be talked about there and so we are entering this second phase of the bhagavad-gita where it talks about god primarily in fact in this 6th chapter the 12th chapter which this section will end with 7 8 9 10 11 12 the 12th chapter is all about bhakti it is bhakti yoga actually now we have started chapter 7 and we saw sri krishna promises arjuna the highest knowledge sri bhagavanua o arjuna with your mind set upon me um and taking refuge in me practicing yoga yoga means so i i believe in god i have taken uh refuge in god so i need not practice anything more people used to ask this um swami brahmana the devotee is asking so someone who has seen sriram krishna they will attain liberation is it not so do they have to practice any spiritual discipline they're always looking for shortcut so i've seen srirama krishna then that is so great after all sriram krishna is so great if i've seen sriram krishna and need not practice any spiritual disciplines what we need to do or not don't do that's a different matter but the attitude is i don't want to practice spiritual discipline so the question would be then what do you want to do as the holy mother said if god has given you fingers repeat the name of god on your fingers what else do you want to do with the body either it will be god or the world see what is hidden in that agenda that i will not practice spiritual disciplines is that then i want to there are certain things i want to do in the world then my moksha liberation that's a difficult thing if it is taken care of i can now happily go back and do my stuff in the world no yogam yunjun practicing yoga what yoga whatever has been taught yoga karma yoga has been taught practicing yoga and two two conditions are given here maya mana your mind attached a mind given to me madasha you have taken refuge in me in god or in avatar i think which commentator was it i think shankaracharya i think or mother susan saraswati who says what's the difference between the two if i've taken refuge in god my mind will be on god not necessarily he says like the um the servant of a king who has taken refuge in the king that means the king is my master but the mind is on other things so i've taken refuge in the master who is my boss but my mind is not on my boss my mind is on how much money i'm getting what will i do after the job today uh on my wife husband kids at home my my mind is on many other things not on the bus and luckily i mean very naturally of course but when it comes to god it will not do i take refuge in god and my thoughts should be also about god then he says assam there is no doubt you will realize me and in totality so in vedanta when you say in totality what it means is you will realize that highest truth that ahamra mahasami when the vedanta teaches tatwa masih that thou art what will be our realization it will not be tatthamasi then it will be continuous back and forth between guru and disciple the guru says that that's what and disciples should realize me i am brahmana disciples should not realize tattwa mercy say that to the guru again so that realization the highest realization the final realization my real nature is this infinite existence that will come to you again he says in the second verse again we have done all these things so i will tell you guys [Music] these two terms and we discussed last time little problematic terms um one interpretation what is ghana and what is vigna because krishna is saying i will teach you two things ghana and vigna having known which he says nothing else remains after this this is complete so what is those what are these two things traditional interpretation was that um gyana means what you get by studying vedanta and vigna means the realization so people often say i have understood it but i have not realized it a classical vedantin who is trained in traditional advaita vedanta will say i have not understood it so you have to go back and again listen to it and again think it through now having studied and acquired the knowledge that is ghana knowledge and making it a living reality that it is true i see that it's a fact and that is vigna that is the traditional interpretation why am i saying traditional interpretation because other interpretations are also there we last i think a couple of years ago we discussed with ayan maharaj uh who has done an analysis of what sri lama krishna is to say vigna ghana and began vidyana vedanta ayan raj is given the term what sri ramakrishna said is realization is ghana and then a fuller or fullest realization is beginner it's not what you get by ghana knowledge is not what you get by reading vedanta it's already realized the person who's got guyana is a gyani is already a realized person but there is a fuller realization possible what is this fuller realization again we discussed it last time but it's something like this srirama krishna said that when one feels the existence of god that it is there that is ghana but when one becomes intimate with god one feels that god is everywhere and there's nothing but god that is vigna he gave examples one example was that one goes up the staircase leaving the first floor second floor behind and going to the roof of the house and then he discovers the highest point of the house the roof of the house whatever it is made of he says the same brick lime and concrete it is the same thing that the rest of the house is made of whatever are left behind by doing natinity that is also the same same substance same reality similarly when one through in vedanta i am not the body not the mind leave the world behind body senses mind and realize that reality satchida i am that but and that's ghana but when i look back upon what i left that is also nothing other than sachidan so mind senses body universe there's nothing other than god god alone is everything whatever we experience in the universe that srirama krishna says is vigana another example he gave was very vivid some people have heard what is milk they've heard about milk and that is uh people who have read like people who have read about vedanta heard about it they have got some kind of understanding of it but there are some people who have seen milk and there are others who have drunk that milk and become nourished by it and become healthy by it so vigna is that that third category the first category is those who have some inkling about it some interest in it have some kind of understanding of it and the second category is those who have seen it the third category is you have those who have drunk the milken similarly there are those who have got some understanding of religion and spirituality than those who have realized and those who are fully realized that that's ram krishna calls vigna so there is this distinction between gayanna and vikkana it's an interesting distinction you can make it it's a interesting point to make suryam krishna consistently made that point all right now we will go ahead you know what is the difference this gyan and vigyana was reading madhusudan saraswati's commentary by the way if you want to read one extensive commentary on the bhagavad-gita classical commentary there are many many many commentaries on bhagavad-gita but a classical commentary in the tradition of advaita vedanta which is very extensive i am saying extensive because adi shankaracharya's commentary is of course foundational but it's not as extensive i mean he took it for granted that people were super intelligent like him i think but more comprehensive most comprehensive you will find is madhusudan saraswati's commentary it is called gurdhar deepika the lamp of profound meaning so that which reveals the profound meaning of bhagavad-gita every word he has given some interpretation and in-depth meaning so of course it's a huge book the good heart will be interested to know a full course is offered at harvard university on gurat deepika of mother sudan saraswati one one whole paper is there and the text they use is the translation they use the english translation of good heart to deepika by swami gambhira and our 11th president president of our order um so why am i bringing this up madhusudam saraswati in the gurhar tadipika he explains what is ghyana and what is vigna according to him this vigna the full realization is um he says when by the realization of the teachings of vedanta by sravana manan and edith when it comes to fulfillment you realize this entire reality the the only reality that there exists is sat sun matra pure being and everything in the universe kalpitam is a is imagined is an appearance dream like in that pure being when you realize that what krishna says nothing more remains to be realized he says maduzu sarasota comments that is the real state in which nothing money remains to be realized but everything is he says is a superimposition or an appearance like a dream like appearance like a magic display in one perfect unlimited being and which is you your real being see that's perfect then one might say that sounds great then what more remains after that see what more remains after that that is the interesting thing that sudam krishna points out yes everything is imagined in that and therefore there is only one absolute reality fine but that which is imagined in it what is the status of that what is the body what is the mind what um what are they do they imagine find their imaginations their names and forms fine but isn't it a fact that those names and forms those body mind universe they are also nothing but that pure being whatever you imagine on the rope somebody thought it was a snake somebody thought it was a flower garden somebody thought it was a crack in the ground or a trickle of water you know this is the classic example given in vedanta texts there's a rope in the semi darkness suppose you know in the some village somewhere near the temple and somebody there's a group of friends going and they suddenly see somebody says oh sarpa snake be careful the other one says no no no not a snake this is a pushpa mala there is a flower garland discarded from the temple and third one says that it is a jaladhara it's a trickle of water or someone says the fourth one says it's a bhu chidra a crack on the ground what is it actually all of those things are superimposed they are all imaginations errors on one adhishtan abhistana means ground what is the ground rope rope is the only reality that there is it's not a snake not a flower garland not a crack in the earth not a trickle of water it's just a rope now if somebody were to ask then that snake which is experienced by that person surely maya error whatever it is that rope which that flower garland the trickle of water that crack on the earth what are they you can't say there is a separate error no they are actually nothing but the rope so if you stress that everything that you experience in the world yes it is maya but it is actually nothing but brahman then you have vigna according to um srirama krishna then and it's an important point because that's how you live life that's how you deal with the world otherwise an implication could be you could dismiss the world then and then you could remain there's no harm in dismissing the world there are yogis who remain absorbed in in that perfect limitless reality nothing to be blamed there that's what narendranath wanted when he explained experienced nirvikalpa samadhi for the first time then sudam krsna said now what do you want next banyan tree under which whose shade thousands of people for ages to come will get shelter but what narendra not was asking for is not a small thing it is seen as the goal of spiritual life krishna is saying something higher of course but still so higher than that is begun to see everything as god and interact with everything as god now all of this one commentator i think shankaracharya probably says that having attracted the students mind with these this these things so versus one and two was advertisement i will tell you that knowledge along with special knowledge guyana along with vigna after which nothing will remain for you to know you can imagine arjuna must have been you know enthused inspired yes and this is the course for me i will take this chapter 7 is the chapter for me tell me then krishna says um oh the advertisement is still continuing number three manusyanam among thousands of men one perchance struggles for perfection even amongst those who that struggle one perchance becomes perfect and even amongst those that are perfect one perchance knows me in reality all right basically this is also advertisement because it is supposed to be about how difficult and rare this knowledge is so that you can you can be attracted towards it that it only very few people get it and you are going to get this knowledge now this is manuscript ratio among millions thousands but among millions and billions of human beings very few are there those who work for moksha siddhi here means perfection but the commentator makes it clear it is moksha they're talking about god realization very rare are those who are working for moksha so those who are gathered here are among those very rare ones who are working for moksha who are inspired for that among those who are um trying to get more god realization enlightenment only one perchance realizes me gets the ultimate realization which i'm going to tell you now so uh what is this verse which is often quoted the reality of spiritual life many many people are attracted to religion many many people either they are attracted or they are conventionally religious in all the worlds all the civilizations of the world everywhere but you will notice in that religious city it's either out of tradition my parents grandparents did it and i'm also doing it it's a nice thing to do it's a part of our culture or out of a desire to satisfy worldly needs i want certain things in the world and therefore i'm taking the help of god many people around the world sincere good people they think that is the purpose of religion what else is the purpose of religion it is to improve our life here that's it um one of interesting thing i noted during my time at the harvard divinity school among the professors some of them and most of the students not all again the whole idea was what are we doing here what is this religion how can it help us it will help us in fulfilling our social goals to make a better society this is the ideal it will help us in lgbtq plus movement it will help us in you know the green society it will help us to establish liberal values in society against racism all sorts of social activist programs religion is meant to help us to establish a better society that's the goal of religion and what else can it be see uh it is it is difficult to argue against something that is good you can argue against something that is bad but something that is good is difficult to argue no the higher purpose of religion in all the religions of the world is ultimately moksha nirvana kaivalya salvation whatever you call it there is this ultimate purpose of religion so shri krishna says most people don't get it so many people may be religious many may be not religious but among those are religious spiritual are very few and so very few among billions of people take up spirituality as seriously as as the goal of their life and among those who take it up those who will ultimately realize also those are even fewer only one in a thousand spiritual seekers the one should not be disheartened that way if the chance of success is so low why should i do it i've told you on other occasions also that once you take this up first of all the benefits is not that at the end i will get brahmagyana i will realize i am brahman till that time it's a hard boring useless slogging waste of time somehow i have to do it with a sour face no until that point also moment to moment day to day we get the benefits we get peace of mind we get blessings in our life from uh from ishvara we uh we become we get peace in ourselves and we become a source of peace and blessing for others it is the most important thing in our life the benefits that we get day to day even long before enlightenment even a little practice of spirituality saves you from great fear that's the promise even a little practice of this saves you from great fear great sorrow in in life it saves you also once uh you have started on this path once one gets the taste of it you will feel what else equals this nothing matches this even long before i get enlightened perfected realize my buddha nature or ambraman even before that what else matches this this is the highest thing in human life the greatest adventure of human life and we are blessed that we have begun it and the final thing is that you will have to do it anyway and success is guaranteed in this time of our next lifetime suramar krishna says in banaras which is the place of mother annapurna nobody goes hungry some are fed in the morning some in the afternoon but some have to wait till sunset no his language sunset means it doesn't sound too bad i can wait till sunset sunset here means the end of the universe [Music] so but you have to wait uh once one starts on this path success is guaranteed so for these reasons one need not feel bad one in a thousand will get success means right now in this life here itself one in a thousand may get it who knows that you will not be that and and for every one of us success is guaranteed so there are rare other persons who walk on this path and those who walk on this path there are those who get enlightenment that means where are the persons who undertake this vedantic shavanamana nidhithyasana among millions billions only a few will undertake and among those who undertake a few get brahmagyana right away here but others will definitely there's no failure a little more broadly we can say there are very few who are attracted to spiritual life first of all and then very few who come to this knowledge that krishna is giving what is this knowledge this knowledge of vedanta because after you get attracted to spiritual life now is supermarket of spirituality out there some of them are real paths which are powerful effective traditional some are spurious when they're all there equally shining before you and often the spurious ones or the um not so deep ones are advertised and pushed much more strongly and people get sidetracked sometimes many types of teachings are available among all of them this i will say of course i'm an advaithin so i have to say this advaita is definitely the last word and it is said um you know as to put it this way advaita is a finishing school for spirituality in today's age there are people who go to different you know meditation techniques and then you know they come up through tantra and shaivi kashmiri shaivism and buddhism and so on finally come to finishing school advaita now you say that only because you are in advait and you are advertising it so much it is true but then i am quoting um text of advaita vedanta the first verse is is by the special grace of ishvara when we say ishwara we think about bhakti you know devotion to god but this book says it is a special grace of ishwara that you have a liking for non-dualism this is the highest finishing school final word and just because you've got the final word the highest does not mean that you cannot do other things you can certainly keep on doing it has no the beauty of advaita vedanta is it has no conflict with anything else avivada manduk upanishad god apartheid says aviva there is no conflict here in this teaching um there is no conflict with any other spiritual path on this uh in this teaching aspara yoga the non-contact non-duality of advaita vedanta parasites all the other teachings contradict each other and they fight among each other but there is no conflict with advaita vedanta of course the commentator there says why there is no conflict with advaita vedanta that may make others wild it says because between the truth and the falsity there is no conflict if two contradictory truths can conflict if someone says a another says b then there's a conflict but if one is between the rope and the snake there is no conflict because the only rope exists the snake is a mistake so there's no conflict between the desert and the mirage there is no conflict because how can it be both the sand and water because it is sand it's not water it just looks like that so it is by the special grace of ishvara that you have a liking for non-duality i remember this was quoted to me by a monk in swargashram in rishikesh i had gone in search of non-dualist monks of course that's my pet hobby that was in 2004 and then somebody i got a list of non-dualist monks from other other monks who lived there one particular monk i won't take the name other monks told me that you go and ask him he is his teachings will be to your liking but don't mention um devotion bhakti god he will get very annoyed so i went and i had a brief talk with him not much of a talk just went with just once but when i asked him about advaitha he was so happy he said his desire for advaitha comes by a very special grace of ishvara so what is the meaning of this verse among thousands of more billions of human beings a few become interested in spirituality all will but in many many lifetimes many lifetimes of suffering are necessary and experience are necessary and those who are walking on the path of spiritual life among them only a few will get this fullest realization which fullest realization i'm going to tell you now i'm going to give it give this to you now the full knowledge complete knowledge vigna gyana and bigyana now having attracted the mind of the student by this advertisement is going to start teaching this um verses four and five should go together but import two important verses [Music] [Music] earth water fire air ether mind intellect and egoism this is my prakriti nature divided into eight categories this is my lower prakriti different from this almighty armed one know that high attractive mind in the form of the individual soul jiva by which this world is sustained all right these are also famous verses and sometimes they're quoted in other scriptures also and come by commentators so what's going on here for this again you will see why vedanta is so useful so what is this universe what is god what are we and what is this universe all of that he has said in these two verses so this is the highest teaching um what is this universe according to advaita vedanta consciousness only is the only reality that there is but all this diversity all this it doesn't seem to be consciousness only i know i feel conscious but then there's so much i have thoughts and feelings i have the senses i have this body and this were past universe living and non-living things what's all this this does not seem to be consciousness only so our term is introduced prakriti maya prakriti consciousness and its power prakriti now if you remember vedanta what happens then this prakriti has two aspects total and individual samashtv total prakruti the consciousness has no total or individual it is just one undivided but prakriti is a total and individual so total prakriti is called maya and the individual the parts of prakriti the tiny fragments of prakriti are called ignorance now this consciousness in association with the total prakriti or maya is called ishwar or sagunabraman what is the definition of ishvara or saguna brahman which we saw in abdul in vedanta-sara consciousness limited by associated with the total prakriti samashtyagyana i'm not using the direct translation to ignorance again means ignorance if you literally translate what is god god is the consciousness limited by total ignorance i am a little fool god is a big fool then no it does not mean that it is like total ignorance and partial ignorance are like sudama krishna put it very beautifully he said the poison in the mouth of the cobra a tiny bit of it is enough to knock out a frog or a mouse the prey of the cobra all of the poison is in the mouth of the cobra it does no harm to the cobra not only does not do any harm to the cobra it is the power of the quebra similarly maya does no harm to god to ishwara in fact maya is the power of ishvara brahman becomes ishvara but a tiny bit of it a fraction of it is enough to send us the jiva into delusion into samsara endless samsara tiny fraction of it so that consciousness in association with a fraction of maya with a with a tiny bit of prakriti is called jiva now what does ishwara do ishvara using the power of maya creates the universe what is the universe it is the five elements the five elements we remember from vedanta saar this creation srishti is done in two stages sukshmas thula first subtle then gross physical the subtle level the five subtle elements are produced first first that ishwara with maya appears as akash space subtle space not the space we think and then that space evolves further into uh into value air and these are technical terms it's not just the breeze which we feel here and then that evolves into agni fire that evolves further into um water and that evolves further into earth so these are all this ancient cosmology which in fact was found in most cultures of the world in ancient cultures some talked about four elements some about five elements space air fire water earth what are these according to vedanta nothing other than that pure consciousness through ignorance appearing this way and it's not difficult to understand just think about the dream example it's a fantastic example in the dream there is a whole universe presumably there is air water space fire earth what is the space there in dreams is it really there is a vast sky there which you see no it is you the dreamer reflected through the lens of the dream itself through the sleep the sleep is like maya first of all you forget yourself and you yourself appear as the space you yourself appear as the water and the earth and the fire in the air you yourself appear as the jiva in your dream not one jiva all jeevas and you yourself interact with all of that and start a dream samsara exactly like that ishwara with maya projects the five subtle elements and then these subtle elements combine to make our minds the cosmic mind and the powers of the senses and so on and then they combine to become the gross universe the physical universe so in two stages ishwara creates the universe first a subtle stage and then a physical or a gross stage and then what happens to the jivas who are the jivas the same consciousness with a fraction of ignet maya with a little bit of ignorance what happens they are projected now why am i saying they isn't consciousness one true consciousness is one but when it becomes associated with numerous fact um you know fractions of my parts of maya it appears as many so one consciousness appears as many many jeeves if you don't believe it look at the count of people in this zoom meeting and see 83 not one so 83 but actually we are one consciousness fragmented as if as if fragmented because of our individual ignorance agaana that individual ignorance forms each of our causal body karana and ishwara provides us through the power of his maya he has created provides us each with a subtle body and from time to time with the physical body gross body sushma reader and here we are here is a universe created by ishvara here is a body and here is a mind and i am here as this limited consciousness consciousness limited by individual ignorance so this worldview and these these jivas what what's going on what's the purpose of all of these these limited jivas are now looking to find their way back to that unlimited consciousness which is there themselves which is their own real nature which has not undergone any change now they are going to go back and ishwara who is the same unlimited consciousness is helping these jivas to come home by creating this entire universe and this whole game of life and death many lifetimes it goes on so this is the sort of in brief the cosmology now all of this sri krishna now puts it in a slightly new way or old way what i have said is vedanta is a sort of finished product looking at all of this a systematized presentation has been given to us in vedanta thousands of years before this same idea sri krishna is saying he says i have two natures what are the two natures one is material nature one is conscious nature what is the material nature maya and all its products what is the conscious nature i the consciousness who i am reflected in little bits of maya i am called this sentient being the jeevas and it is for these sentient beings that the universe is created is sustained finally dissolved again created until they all get enlightenment so ishwara that is consciousness plus maya is the cause of the universe and what caused vedanta if you remember abina nimitto padana karana the one um integral material and the the instrumental cause what is this material instrumental cause suppose there is wood which has become your furniture it doesn't become by itself the carpenter who comes and transforms the wood into furniture so the carpenter is called the nimit takara the intelligent cause or instrumental cause the one who transforms the wood into furniture and the wood is the material of the furniture the upadhanakaran uba dynamics material similarly potter and clay and pots clay is the upadhana karna material potter is the the instrumental cause nimitz and part is the product what about the universe what is the material cause what is the instrumental cause upadhana karan and nimita karna there is no distinction here it's not a crude idea like there is a separate creator there is some material like clay and then like potter made pot out of the clay god makes the universe out of some material not like that there is only one reality and that itself appears as this universe so that's why vedanta says god alone ishwar alone saguna brahman alone is the abhina nimit consciousness plus maya is the material out of which the entire universe is projected and is also the cause of it the intelligent cause the intelligence which designs projects this entire universe here is by the way till now the big difference between a religious point of view and a scientific materialistic scientific point of view see we sort of feel that the clay cannot become a part by itself the wood cannot assemble itself into furniture if you don't believe me then you go to ikea you see what will happen to you if you wait for it to assemble itself then you are in trouble you have to do it all now you are the instrumental cause and the materials which ikea will provide you with is the material cause but what does science say no instrumental cause is necessary no intelligence is necessary by the very forces of nature nature sort of assembles itself into this universe so it is some kind of super ikea it assembles itself you don't need any intelligence outside it that is the materialistic science i mean our modern science would say that all you need is the initial set of conditions which produced the big bang how that happened nobody knows what was there before that and how that happened and after that uh the forces of evolution which from beginnings of organic life till this point they can produce all life forms now there are arguments for this and against this and we will not go into it that's a huge area separately but the world view that we are talking about what krishna is talking about is a religious worldview you have material cause and instrumental cause except in most religions you will find god is the instrumental cause intelligence but god is not the material of the universe so god is different and material of the universe it's more like a carpenter and good situation or potter and clay situation but in advaita vedanta in vedanta in fact it is one reality because the question is what other material would be there apart from god there's only one reality again and again you've said so that must be the only one and it's there in the upanishads upanishads say munda combination is how does the entire universe come from this uh consciousness it says just as from a spider a web is produced and notice that's a word for the spider beautiful word for a spider notice that the the spider produces the web out of its own body vezanta says the spider the sentient being the jiva called spider is the nimit takara is the instrumental cause and the body of the spider is the upadhana khan is the material cause and the web is the creation so that being who is in the body of the spider from that body produces this web out of its own intelligence it designs the web exactly like that saguna brahman and maya maya is the body from which the universe emerges and saguna brahman is the consciousness which is the intelligence behind all of this now you might say the spider does a lot of work and the poor spider every every sunday we go and clean it up and wipe out all the webs the poor spider so is god like that does god have to do a lot of work to create this universe no effortlessly so this next example is um as from the earth shrubs and herbs and plants emerge effortlessly um the universe emerges from sagunda brahman so the earth is an inert thing so are you seeing some kind of ultimately like physics some inert non-conscious material from which the universe is coming no that's why the third example is given as from a living being hair emerges from our body the hair is actually dead and it emerges from a living being similarly a non-conscious universe the universe which is an object emerges from the subject the that universe which is limited emerges or appears in the unlimited that which is full of sorrow and suffering emerges from that which is blissful that which is completely given to change always modifying and changed it emerges from the changeless absolute so just like that then this this universe emerges from the akshara akshara is consciousness the absolute consciousness so then this is one non-different instrumental material cause okay now what does shri krishna say so here are these two prakritis of mind he says i have got two prakritis one is material prakriti this entire universe including your body your mind also is part of material prakriti and i have got jivas the sentient beings who are my higher prakriti my higher nature this higher nature lower nature this kind of categorization we did not find in vedanta this is something unique to what sri krishna is saying so he says what is my lower nature bhumi earth upper water anala fire why you air come space so these are not the physical the gross entities there are there's the subtle elements this this is the first stage of creation and mana buddhi mind intellect and uh ego but these are also actually technical terms borrowed from sankhya not our the way we are feeling mind and intellect and ego right now these are vinna prakriti ashtada they are eight-fold prakriti if you count them the five elements um earth water fire air space five and then six is mine seven is uh intellect and eight is ankara ego eight fold lower prakriti material prakriti objective prakriti then he says upper i am it has two and all this is lower prakriti now i have a higher prakriti higher nature what is the higher nature you o arjuna all of these sentient beings all human beings and all of these horses and elephants all of the birds and creatures of the world all beings all sentient beings the consciousness in them that is my higher nature but isn't that you why are you calling it your nature see you ishwar what are you your consciousness plus maya so all the consciousness in all of us isn't it you isn't it one with you ultimately yes but right now it does not seem so what you see as the consciousness in all of them that is my lower nature and that that is my higher nature it's still my nature it's my power and it is because of this he says because of this universe is sustained i am playing this game of the universe creation preservation destruction birth life death i am playing this game this whole thing exists it exists because of you we trust the whole thing upon god why is god doing all this god is saying that why are you doing all this why don't you become enlightened then we can finish this game you want to play what can i do i'm just letting you play i am giving you the playground i'm i i we will say that but we don't remember when did i ask to play that you don't remember krishna said to arjuna at the beginning of the bhagavad-gita i mean i think chapter four we have had many many lives arjuna was when i said you don't remember i remember all my lives and i remember all of your live songs this is the difference between an ordinary jivan mukta and god in avatar and jivan mukta may have the power to remember his or her own past lives that much but god an incarnation of god alone has the power to remember all past incarnations and also all of the others all beings who come to them they know their past and present they know our past and present whatever has gone on in our lifetimes and whatever is yet to come for us they know that many times since krishna's life you see this demonstrated again and again holy mother's life also one of the most stunning incidents is when she went to visit rameshwar uh ramishwaram in the south of india and the temple there where there's a the shiva and the shiva linga is place there sita had worshipped and the holy mother just muttered just the way i left it and then people around him what did you say and she said no no nothing nothing there's nothing forget it um and others lives also she went to bodhgaya and in both gaya um she saw a group of english men and women admiring the architecture of some of the ruins i think in nalanda or somewhere there not nalanda somewhere else near that some temple uh a buddhist bihar and then the holy mother said to the her companions around look they they in their past lives many many centuries ago they are the ones who built these and now they have come back and they are admiring their own work so they know the past and present so this is ishvara and our we sentient beings do not know we are playing this game that's why ishwar is creating the universe so that we come to enlightenment that's the basic cosmology of of vedanta advaita has something more to say that will say yes that's all fine good it's a good story but the fact is you are none other than brahman and that's the only reality that there is but anyway they are spoiled sports this is a grand story they are they are just calling and see don't forget it's a story only um yes cosmic game of hide and seek right now god is hiding and we are all seeking god where is god where is god we're playing hide and seek little children are seeking god who is hiding and when the universe ends you know siram krishna says at sunset the evening with night falls and the universe ends and all this game is over those who have not got liberation at that time there will be many they will go back into the seed form will be absorbed back into prakriti until the next universe is created so then ramanuja said at that time we all hide and god alone is there now and god is now searching when did those fellows go and so he finds us and he creates the universe and he throws us out there to play again and he hides himself and then we keep searching so this cosmic not cosmic multi-cosmic game of hide and seek is going on nice way of putting it but shri krishna says by which this entire universe this game of this universe is sustained all right let me quickly take a look at the questions this is a very profound teaching i mean in this two verses he has just given the entire vedantic world view not just vedantic actually this is upanishadic and also sankhya there are elements of upanishads here's elements of sankhya here vishwanath kara says swami swamiji can the three levels of knowledge be mapped to parochial practice as in the 10th level 10th man story three levels of knowledge means can you unmute and say three levels means something you're discount for the milk you said somebody knows reads about milk and then see yes um only to a certain extent paraksha you're right who has just read about milk that's paraksha so we have read about vedanta we have heard about these things maybe we have some beliefs some understanding also now um the one who has seen milk that is not only protection that's upper okay because utman cannot be protection anyway so when one actually realizes it it is upper okay and beyond that the beginner stage according to the classical commentators the gyana state is this paraksha state what is gyana it is paraksha ghana you have read about it what is vigna aparoksa i am brahman once and sri ramakrishna's we are putting it was this apparaksha nubuti is ghyana i am brahman and vigna is then the further uh realization that as long as this body exists jivan mukta state is going on whatever is experienced is nothing other than brahmana that's the ultimate truth you can see it is just an extension of advaita vedant and in fact it is not as revolutionary as um suppose you know like ayan maharaja is talking about vikyana vedanta but if you see the teachings of the traditional advaita teachers is perfectly this is sort of exactly what they are saying i mean i've heard in uttarakhand sadhus when they teach advaita veranda they're basically saying this very same thing he says second verse of this chapter mentions mentions to be real not the projection no you have to be very careful here does not mean that world is real if you see world is real in what sense if you say brahman is a reality and world is a reality that means you have two realities then you have dwayth and that's a system certainly the world is different from brahman pancha bheda madhvacharya srimadu acharya speaks about pancha the difference between brahmana brahman is a separate reality god is a separate reality world is a separate reality sentient beings you are separate and the chair you are sitting on is separate and then separate means distinct individual realities you are separate from the other person there are 83 people here they are separate individual beings and then there is uh jiva ishwara bheda you are separate from god brahman or brahman and jiva are separate distinct you are not god and jagat jagat veda the table is separate from the chair every entity in the world is separate from each other in that case you have dualistic religion that means dualism advaita vedanta does not believe that the world is a separate reality when sriram krishna says in what sense he would say satyam if he does say it all he says it is true as brahman ramana maharshi says something very interesting he says who can say the world is real who can say that the world is real we think the ignorant person says the world is real another from an advaithic perspective ignorant person says world is real no brahman maharishi says it is only the brahmagyani who can say the world is real because the brahmagan is seeing reality ignorant person says world is real what does the ignorant person know about reality the ignorant person doesn't know anything about reality ignorant person is living in a dream is the one who is awake to the reality of brahman and sees everything as brahman that person sees reality and that reality is the reality of the world that is brahman it's not the world we are inhabiting this world which we we see around ourselves is definitely a projection is this the gita commentary refer to let me see correct this is the one all right from vedantist press also the same sits the same book ramya says described by saraswati is it possible to reach the state without attaining vingyan as per sudama krishna yes in fact first you have to realize this and one might realize this and not be worried about the gyan any further would that person be free would that person get moksha with that person be a jivan mukta certainly why not but that person would be someone like totapuri for example for whom this entire world including his own body including even god for example is an appearance okay it's fun but nothing important can be easily dismissed but to then why would salaam krishna stress vigna vedanta for example shiva gyani jivaseva to serve all beings in the knowledge that it is shiva it is possible only in vikyana vedanta and what would be the classical realization of me that i and shiva are one chidananda rupa shivoham what about shiva gyan jivaseva not necessary there is no jiva it is shiva alone and the only seva if you want to do seva at all would be to teach those so-called jeeves that you stop being fools you are shiva become enlightened that would be the seva of the enlightened one michael bird says if any everything we experience is imagined then isn't the concept of brahman itself imagined correct in fact the highest advisor would say your consciousness itself the concept of brahman itself is definitely imagined so then it's wrong no it's a correction it's a corrective to all our wrong concepts so this is where madhyamaka buddhism becomes useful you know nagarjuna sword that ultimately all the conceptual apparatus you develop is to correct the error of samsara once it's corrected you have to let it go in um buddhism the conceptual apparatus is shunyata the that reality which is uh free of the four alternatives of is is not is and is not neither is nor is not so you you have this concept of but that also has to be let go similarly brahman here also but one has to be very careful here when you say let go of brahman and then normally what will happen for people if you tell them oh the brahman is also it's a concept so he'll plunge back into the world again that is that's the most miserable thing that could happen you have to hold on to the idea of spirituality religion god sentient being after all advaita vedanta what does it say it says these are all concepts when it says brahman alone is real and ji was none other than brahman then it says everything that you inhabit is a world of concepts in the world of appearances there is only one absolute reality and that you are but these concepts are useful the concept of brahman seems to be a human concept so what that would mean is before humans were there the concept of a brahman at least as we humans imagine it and are discussing here did not exist and maybe after we are here it will not exist how can we be so certain the concept of brahman is the one true infinite reality just beyond the subjective creation of man correct now you think about it what you have just asked what is brahman it is awareness unlimited awareness consciousness the moment you say these are concepts and these are human concepts and there was a time before human being now think about carefully what you are saying human concepts this human isn't it also a concept when you say concept don't limit yourself everything that we experience and do these are all concepts there was a time when human beings were not before that you know world was there and evolution was going on and there were little creatures evolving from the oceans to the uh to the land and dinosaurs and all of that all of these are appearances in consciousness is it not see otherwise what has happened is you know we have got this realist materialist realist model so strongly drilled into our minds is that we are completely sure there was a world long before human beings were there and that existed without any human awareness there at all in fact there was a world before any living being was there and that existed quite apart from any kind of awareness but what advaita vedant is saying this whole thing you're saying is it not in your consciousness use the dream example in the dream also suppose you didn't know it was a dream somebody came and told you that it's not true that this is a dream you know human beings dream but before human beings evolved all this planet was there the sky was there earth was there uh even before life evolved so there was nobody to dream then this all these things existed before sounds very logical the moment you wake up what will happen it all appeared in your dream think about it that's why when you say brahman brahman is just a name but what do you mean by brahman if you drill a little deeper you begin to see it's not that easy geeta dev says pranam maharaj is the fact that so few turn towards spirituality seriously rather than as a source of achieving one's desires or maybe cultural practices indicate that such souls have already lived many lives and have evolved spiritually correct they don't stumble into serious religion just by chance no at least the way we understand it hinduism buddhism all of these karma theorists we have generated the competence if you stumble up upon it without being ready for it it will make no difference to you you'll just you know dabble in it a lot of people who do that they dabble in it they buy books from the bookshop few books and look in the here and there and just say all right a few years later they give it to somebody else the books i've read all of that and that's fine you can you are interested you can take it that's the um stumbling into it it may seem that you have stumbled into it but we don't know how karma works you meet meeting somebody fortuitously you know you met a teacher or a monk or you heard a lecture you had a book but you were ready for it that's why it you know it had this impact upon you sangeeta says in this context you mentioned there are some who may well stop after fully realizing nathan it did not feel like going any further but can anyone achieve the gyan or ett state without going first going through the nativity um if yes does that not prove that the world is not illusion as stated in the classical advaithic states thanks can it be done in advaita vedanta no but again those who proceed through the path of bhakti devotion to ishwara by the grace of ishwara one might get that realization that all is ishwar all is brahman you are brahmana all is brahmana so you have not actually gone through the advaithic procedure of advaithic inquiry and yet you get that knowledge by the grace of god it's possible why not um i mean you may have read the books and then suddenly it clicks and that's the grace of god you did not actually attempt to do all this vedanta now if yes does that not prove that the world is not an illusion as stated in the classical advaithic sense no it doesn't because it's in fact proves that the world is an illusion as straight in the classical advaithic sense because what will you realize the eti state means what it means this this what is brahman this here it does not mean this et does not mean i have reaffirmed the world again that is gross materialism that what is the t state no this is the man this is a woman i have now become enlightened this is a man this is a woman this is a car this is a dog it's a cat no eti means what seems to be before my enlightenment it seemed to be these are living beings and car and earth and sky all of it is nothing but god in that case what seemed to be man woman dog cat and that seemed to be the only reality earlier that world you were inhabiting that worldview which you had what happens to it it was an illusion you would look back upon it and say i was totally mistaken about it i thought it was a man it is actually god i thought it was a woman it's actually god then that man and woman you saw what is it is it something separate or is it none other than god if it is none other than god that other than god man and woman which we saw before enlightenment what happens to it maya mithya the very realization that all is god proves the advaitic claim brahma satyam jagat mithya otherwise if the world is not an illusion as stated in classical advaitha and you realize everything is god then you have got two realities god and the world then you've got dwight again and then you cannot say everything is god you have to say god alone is god is and then other things are they're also there shiva priya says there is no conflict with advaita vedantas all is a reflection of all pervading brahman and brahma itself is an appearance no why should brahman be an appearance the reflection is an appearance yes there's no conflict suppose in the lake when i go out there in in the lake i see the reflection in the lake i see houses and trees and now is is not possible that there can be houses and lakes and trees where there's only water can it be water and houses and lakes and trees no but it is entirely possible that it can be water and reflections of houses lakes and trees reflections are not really houses lakes and trees other houses uh trees and sky so the reflections are reflections similarly brahman has no conflict at all with the world appearance but if you say it's a solid separate independent world then there is a conflict definitely praveer basu says explanation of prakriti seems to be different from sankhya what shri krishna has said here is yes it's a little different from sankhya but you can clearly see there are elements of sankhya even the term prakriti is pretty sankyean actually so again and again in krishna in the bhagavad-gita you will find elements of sankhya but it seems to be a peculiar mixture of upanishadic cosmology and sanction cosmology rick says it is said everything is consciousness in that is that true of natuna brahman or does consciousness come into play only with sagun abram if nerd gunner then consciousness must exist but there will be anything to be conscious of correct yes the word consciousness we are using it becomes evident as what we call consciousness only when body mind senses and objects appear then it becomes we are conscious and so that which enables us to be conscious must be consciousness itself so then shall we say that nirguna brahman is not consciousness no it it must be consciousness as we understand it but maybe you cannot use the term for it just when it is nit gunabram and it's beyond all language but the best that we can say about it is it is being it is awareness it is bliss and one way of understanding this is that when you say nir guna brahman is being itself that means you can't say that it doesn't exist when you say that nerd guna brahman is consciousness itself you can't say that it is an inert thing or it's not conscious and you say nir guna brahman is bliss itself you can't say that it is affected by any kind of sorrow or limitation of suffering so in a negative sense one can understand these terms krishnamurti says how is para prakriti same as jiva is it it is a bit difficult to map it to the concept with answer is it a reference to ananda my kosher now para prakriti here when krishna says my paraprakriti is jiva he says it here so he says now what is this jiva it is consciousness plus the anandamaya question then is that little fraction of which is a part of maya and this consciousness itself is nothing different from that pure consciousness it's just because of the presence of these ubadis it seems to be different bill uh where's bill yes please unmute yourself you see you uh skipped over my question which i'll just read it out it's two up oh yes bill says but he saguna brahman uh is the one sporting and each as each jiva seeking reunion absolutely ultimately if saguna brahman is each of us then beyond saguna brahman and beyond us there must be one reality then only it appears as saguna brahman and as jiva so that reality beyond sagunda brahman beyond god uh is nir guna brahmana from that perspective we and saguna brahman are one but the moment you come down to the level of prakriti and then that pure consciousness or nirvana brahman now appears as saguna brahman and we appear as jiva and our relation to saguna brahma as jiva is one of devotion of surrender we cannot say that i am the reality of saguna brahman then my reality is the reality of sargon brahma or maester eckart's words the ground of my soul and the ground of god is one and the same okay then anjali can you unmute yourself oh i've been skipping lots of questions i think i'm hurrying we have gone really well over time that's why all right we'll take the question here yeah the higher consciousness and lower consciousness are the same as pure consciousness and reflected consciousness uh higher consciousness lower consciousness means um ishwara and jiva in that sense you are saying i am not going to go into pure consciousness reflected consciousness yet there are different concepts because the idea of reflected consciousness he has not bought in here and that's some later vedanta krishna is just talking about higher consciousness here means ishwara pure consciousness plus maya the so-called lower consciousness he does not use higher consciousness or consciousness he uses the terms higher prakriti and lower practice higher prakriti is ishwara lower prakriti is a higher prakriti is jiva lower prakriti is material nature universe i am pure consciousness and with prakriti i become ishvara now this prakriti has two aspects one is this material nature and one leads to that same pure consciousness appearing as all these individual sentient beings so this is a slightly different way of paradigm of presenting the same thing which we have studied the dancer system is very detailed and very geometrical and neat this is much more ancient so here the distinction between sankhya and upanishad the cosmologies is not as clear as it became maybe later on good all right let's bring it to a close here before i skip over any more questions i think srinivasa you wanted to ask something you have to unmute yourself you've skipped my question as well oh see i've been skipping so many questions let me see um where is the question i think last but not least but one or two um [Music] would atmosphere come the last verse why don't i see it can you read it out the last verse of uh once again let me just unmute myself you're unmuted yes yeah the last verse of atmospheric i think also talks of the same thing that nothing is separate from consciousness from the last verse i think also it culminates that everything is consciousness only not separate from consciousness that is true that is true yeah it's true all right on that high note let us conclude foreign