Video 7

7. Bhagavad Gita I Chapter 2 Verse 19 I Swami Sarvapriyananda

Oh Vasu Deva suitum deivam comes a charnel rama Dunham Devaki paramanandam Krishna Monday jagadguru let's chant sixteen onwards we have done 16 17 18 today's 19 let's just just follow me into chanting chant of to me Naruto it dirty Naruto with dirty Bravo Navid dirty sat with dirty rapid reach 20 distant AHA - Anna who's that - ah - Evie - Anna yah - Evie Avinashi tooted with the Avinashi tooted with dy7 Medan Tatem yena sarvam idam tatam we know some of us as we know some of us osya knockers jet car - Moratti knockers chitkul - morality untoned a media event a made me choke Tasha Irina Nietzsche's joke Tasha Irina a notion Oprah me yes annachi no premier yes - Maud you just swap out the smart you just swap in response to a practical question by Arjuna Arjuna simply asked what he should do what's right and what's wrong but Krishna goes very deep he starts with the very nature of the self the root of all wisdom before deciding what is right and wrong what you should do and should not do first you should know what you are and so here he teaches the most profound doctrine of the self of what we really are maybe this is the central teaching the first teaching of Advaita Vedanta of course the bhagavad-gita has many more things to say but this is this is the key so Krishna starts with that he tells us with what we think ourselves to be that we are not he makes a distinction between the body and the embodied self sharira sharira sharira means body and we're body we do not just mean the physical body when we look at ourselves we find two aspects one is the physical body this one what everybody can see what the doctor checks up and what what you have inside what you inside only me I mean how do you say it because inside the physical body is only more physical body inside closer to your psychic being your your inner being your thoughts your ideas your memories the person that you think you are even that is a body even that is not what you are so the physical body outside by outside I mean relative to the inner self the physical body outside and the inner psychological body the gross bodies to lasheeda and the subtle body suksham sharir both our bodies we are not them that's what krishna says and the first so we are the Atman the self Atman literally means the self you and this body and mind what we can say to be ourselves our own Artman not self what is the characteristic of the self as distinguished from the not self how is it different what are we talking about here well first of all krishna says it does not die and he starts up we will see that very twelfth verse in fact from verses eleven to twenty five is a central teaching of the deduction of the self Atman from eleven to twenty five second chapter twelve verse he says there was never a time when you were not or I was not not these Kings were not and they will never be a time when we will not be he does not say that we are here right now because that's obvious we are here right now but did we exist before our birth are we going to exist after the death of this body he says yes what's going to exist not the body the body is the not-self the not-self will die the mind is the not-self it will change but there is an unchanging reality which is you the real you that does not die with the death of the body that does not change or forget with changing and forgetting mind so that one we are first of all it is nitya eternal what is nick tia eternal the self you are eternal in the thirteenth works it showed how the body goes through childhood youth middle age old age and these transitions you say that you are the one who was the kid you are the one who was the teenager you are the one who was the middle-aged person you are the one who are who is you call yourself a senior person now but it's the body which best made these transitions as you claim without any doubt whatsoever that you persisted through these changes of the body so also the claim here is you will persist through the final change of the body which is death so that was the 13 to 15 plus important it tells us something one more thing about the self about you about the Atman it says the Ackman is real and the not-self anatman is false and appearance what did the what's the first thing it said the Atman is eternal and the not-self is non eternal changing dying the second thing it says not only is the not-self world body and mind non-eternal but also it's an appearance it's not real in itself what is real in itself you the self I will not go into explanation I hope you remember we did a full class on this 16th verse very important not only is the body mind non-eternal but the body mind is also is an appearance in what in the self what is the self pure being not only pure awareness but pure being is this do you remember the isness never goda goes out of existence and that which appears never truly exists we discussed the concepts of borrowed existence and intrinsic existence all those things we discussed do you remember the example of the potato which was hot and the water and the fire underneath so that is given in that 16th words very important verse it tells you Atma satyam jagat mithya it takes a lifetime to digest this it's a stunning revelation and a message of hope if there is anything real in the world if there is anything real in this life it is you but not in a solipsistic sense by solipsistic sense I mean I alone am real and you are all false no the real I and the real you are one and the same thing your reality is the reality of the entire universe that means there's the core of reality which you are and that lense reality - what we call the universe body mind and life then he goes on 18:20 in verse another beautiful one he makes another point about the self he says the self is all-pervading look at how he is hitting our fondest conceptions of ourselves first conception is I'm going to die he says no you are immortal second conception is here is a real stark reality no you are the reality that is a dependent reality depends on you for the reality third we think I am here and everything else is outside and separate from everything he says no you pervade the entirety of of reality how how is it that I pervade everything it's only when you are localized in the body that I think I am this one then you feel and I am here and not there but we suppose you identify yourself with easeness existence where are you not if you are not there that thing will become he is not not it will disappear if isness is not there it'll become is not you pervade everything as pure being or more precisely everything has its dwelling in you because you are pure being you pervade all experiences of life as pure consciousness because without that consciousness no experience is possible so as pure being as pure awareness you pervade everything there's nothing that can be there without you I I know I'm rushing through but I'm giving you the highlights of what has happened so you are all pervasive then the eighteenth verse many things was many ways said one word was a premier very important another interesting point he makes up everything that we know in this world is an object of knowledge by definition if you know it it's an object of knowledge what you see is an object of seeing what you hear is an object of hearing smell taste touch or belief an object of believing we read in books religious books and we're taught to believe in heaven hell God or object of scientific enquiry black holes two quarks two protons two so ever all the objects of scientific discovery they are all objects whatever you know in the world is an object what we are talking about here is unique in that it's not an object a premiere means not an object of knowledge what is that the pure subject Oh is that not that it is you so you are not an object don't look for yourself in the world of objects you are very clearly present all the time to yourself as the ever shining subject it may sound poetic ever shining subject whatever is that you should ask hard-headed questions is the one who is asking this question right now Krishna wants you to turn your attention into yourself you will discover the never shining subject a premier are not an object of knowledge therefore you don't ask why can't I see it why can't I hear it why can't I smell it taste it touch it why can't I discover it with the what the CERN particle accelerator why can't I discovered it with electron microscopes no because all of them deal with objects if it is not an object of knowledge then how will I know it's true the question is what is the proof that such an Optima is there can you tell me assignment what is the proof that what we are talking about such a pure awareness or consciousness is there what is the proof yes were you winged much much much further than but in a simple sense the answer yes you are right of course yes yeah life is an object it can be created but what what is the proof that you are pure consciousness such a you're saying that there is an eternal unchanging all-pervading all these things we just said pure consciousness yes at the back it is self-evident you might say how so it's not evident to me buddy it will be made evident and when it is made evident to your reaction would be who it was there all along you know what is the straight answer to the question what is the proof in Sanskrit the word for proof is pramana the answer in advaitha with perrantes all operation of instruments of knowledge the objects of knowledge the instruments of knowledge and the knowledge generated all of them depend on this consciousness for the efforts for their operation Sarova pramana premiere of Viva Hara every act of knowledge knowledge is an act you see its it requires every instrument of knowledge objective knowledge and the knowledge that you gain with the instrument and the object all of them they are manifested enabled by this consciousness and again if you understand what this means you will see it as a matter of fact of course of course right now I am aware therefore I see I have the X by C means I have the experience of seeing if you go to an airport the door will slide open when you come near it there's a sense of there in a certain sense it sees you but there is no conscious experience of seeing in there you say how do you know Swami well even the most ambitious designer of those gadgets will not say that my sensors are conscious beings they'll never say that they are not there's no conscious experience of saying seeing the entire mechanism of seeing is there there's a mechanical eye you know like an organ and there is an object to be seen you are approaching the door and the knowledge is generated not as a conscious event but practically behaviorally it behaves as if it is seeing you but there is no inner experience of seeing there the inner experience of what we call our lives that is possible because of this consciousness this is a so-called hard problem of consciousness how are we getting this experience so up remai are very important word not an object of knowledge if something is not an object of knowledge what right do you have to speak about it we have the right to speak about it because it is evident in every knowledge all right now let me go ahead so we have had we have been told by Krishna you are not the body-mind you're not born with the body you know do not die with the body you are eternal but the body mind the changing and perishable you are all-pervading you are real and the body mind is limited and unreal unreal means appearance dependent reality and you are not an object of knowledge body mind world object of knowledge some instrument you can know them that which knows that's what you are so so far now let's go ahead some very well-known verses usually in India sometimes when people die these the virtues of course is a chant chant it it's its to do it that you are eternal you do not that so you know why these are chanted when people die so we can normal you'll sit near the dead body and people are coming to view the body which is lying in state and there'll be somebody chanting the Gita we do do that in the monastery in in India too if a senior Swami monk passes away when we were young novices so the word would come to our our training center that such-and-such Swami elderly Swami's passed away the bodies kept there so till the cremation of the body there'll be continuous chanting of the Gita by by turn so we divide ourselves into groups and we used to go there once it so happened they got the advance notice that summon Swami has passed away and he's there in that room the body so you can start going start the gita chanting and so the novices go there in a group three or four novices with their gita and they go and they see there is a body there and it's covered with white cloth and the room is very quiet so they naturally just sit down and this opened the gate down was who they were so Tom the album and suddenly with a flurry the clot is thrown aside and this Swami irate annoyed all Swami sits up and says not me you fools the next room [Laughter] I heard this story about Swami tea also here two persons he had given instructions that when I pass away how you should chant the name of sri ramakrishna jaya sri ramakrishna that like you should chant like that once he fainted and the gentleman who took him to the hospital you know they he told me the story that I was summoned that the Swami Swami is in critical condition so he rushed in a car here and there was almost nobody there so two of them there was a lady and this gentleman this struggle because he was heavy I struggled to bring him downstairs put him in the car he was lying in the backseat and they started driving and then remembered the instructions so I while driving they started chanting jaya sri ramakrishna and the swami got up in the backseat and said not this time you fools and then he collapsed again so these are the verses which are chanted when people and after death in the family or something so here's a very famous verse 1920 hunt or be hunted on yes chain Aman yachty Adam yes yachty Adam Muto Navi Johnny tow a boat owner be Johnny tow nam Huynh tina hannity nam Huynh tina hannity he who thinks of it that means the admin as a slayer remember this is the context of war so that languages and he would think that it is slain both are ignorant of the truth it the self that means Atman neither slave nor is slain it's the famous verse before I go into an analysis of the verse Emerson Ralph Waldo Emerson he was famous he was called the American plate or the American Socrates so he has a famous poem Brahma let me recite it to you and see whether you can see the similarity that's why I've got it all right here it's a very well-known poem Emerson if the red Slayer thinks he slaves or if the slain think he is slain they know not well the subtle ways I keep and pass and turn again I mean he's taking the that I on the self far or forgot to me is near shadow and sunlight are the same the vanished gods to me appear and one to me our shame and fame beautiful they reckon ill who leave me out when me they fly I am the wings I am the doubter and the doubt and I the him the brand him sings the strong guards pine for my abode and pine in vain the sacred seven but thou meek lover of the good find me and turn thy back on heaven incredible right so the first one is of course a direct rendering of the 19th verse of the Bhagavad Gita if the red Slayer red means in a warlike and fierce thinks that he is slaying and the one who is killed thinks that I am I am undone I am finished they know not well the seek the subtle ways but either self I'm here and I I pass and I come again that means we go through births and deaths and then he goes on to say that the dualities what is far forgotten by the world to me is always present here because I am the existence of all things shadow and sunlight are the same to me to the pure consciousness the vanished gods the gods who are not you know seen in the matter of belief the day with us to me they appear and one to me are shame and fame they reckon ill who leave me out so when you say I am body and mind you have left out the real nature of yourself you've left it out you don't notice it I am and I enable it and come to that later on I enable everything all activities I do not do them but because of me they are happening I am not the doer and I'm not the act itself but because of me all is possible even the religion is his either him the Brandon Singh's religion is also I doubter and doubt I am the doubting of the skeptic and the believing person and the atheist both I am is because how I the consciousness alone without me what doubt can there be without me what belief can there be strong God spine for me about the Vedic God's Indra and varuna and Agni how do I know this is what is meant so internet Google is very helpful there are there were study notes for this problem so I read read that Indra and Verona and Agni they cannot attain this highest reality pure consciousness is beyond them also but it is you and pine in vain the sacred seven the seven Rishi's they keep the greatest of spiritual people they keep trying for this but thou meat lover of the good so you the humble lover of God but you find me and then what is the result turn thy back on heaven but this is a very interesting way to put it because moksha is going beyond heaven and hell that this continuous cycle of birth and death going to hire locals heaven being born here here earth are going to lower worlds and suffering hell and coming back again this entire cycle that's the how the Hindus Buddhists Jains see it so he says if you attain me you turn your back on heaven imagine in the late 19th century to say this from the east coast here would have been very confusing for people in fact Emerson gave a talk in in the Harvard Divinity School a famous talk where he told the Builder the graduating class that we should regard everybody ourself as pure consciousness as awareness and he criticized this overemphasis and which is given and says in your studies on the person of Jesus and the personality of Jesus you take an impersonal reality the consciousness to be yourself and everyone ultimately is good and everyone ultimately saved so this this kind of teaching he very very thick teaching video Panasonic teaching result was he was banned from Harvard for 28 years when he was welcomed back and then given the great honor of course he was the greatest of the American transcendentalists so in him you see the meeting of the Upanishads and American thought in the late 19th century before Vivekananda came to this country Thoreau Walden Pond he writes he used to stab and like a hermit he writes in his Walden he writes that every day in the morning I the bhagavad-gita he says I bathe my intellect in the stupendous philosophy of the bhagavad-gita compared to which our modern literature and art scene paltry and trivial he says this is the light of a pure dawn he's a beautiful language he uses I come into contact with this when I read open the pages of the bhagavad-gita why am i bringing sorrow he was also part of the transcendentalists his collection he had 45 books on Upanishads and Gita by a British friend of his who sent those books to him so that was the finest collection of Indian philosophy in those days on the East Coast when he died the entire collection went to Emerson Emerson loved reading the Gita and the Upanishads I know so this is the poem Brahma now if we go into the philosophy of it what is being said here what is said here the Atman your real nature is not a doer carta agent of action if you think that you are the Slayer you're not that means you are not the doer of any action your consciousness does not do anything it's not the doer of an action it's not curta agent of action when you do an action you get the results experiencing the results is often translated as enjoying the results it may not be enjoyable and can be miserable also experiencing the results of one's actions in sanskrit it is called bhakta the experiencer or ik often translated as the enjoyer but experiencer of so we do karma kurta and we experience the results of our karma bhakta that's the general idea and he says the Atman is neither it's not a doer not an experiencer of the results of karma yes what is the experience it clearly there is an experience clearly there is a doer right now this is Swami aren't you speaking so aren't you doing something it is that same pure consciousness you the Atman identified with confused with I think for getting your real nature identifying with the mind and body lighting up the mind and body with your with you their weirdness giving it existence and then you become the doer through the mind and body and when the experiences start coming you become the experiencer who is the experiencer the Atman didn't you just say the Atman is not the experience the Atman in itself is not the experience with the Atman identified with thinking that its body mind becomes experience then falls into the trap of karma yes bill country I am the machine you are the driver of the machine so instead of thinking of the Atman as I this is Vedanta but if it's too much to swallow in this way you can think of the Atman as God that's a one that's that's another way of approaching it and that's an easier way of approaching it Vedanta would have you think of this option which is being revealed Atman literally means the self you we are talking about you if you really think about it it's stupendous it might be too much to digest but this much you can do is there is such a thing which is in bottle which is pure being and awareness which transcends all doing and experiencing and this is the god of religion that's the beginning then what would you be the lower self P if such a God exists within you then that is the operator that enables everything to happen I just become a vessel then so Sri Ramakrishna says that there'd in that way also you can be free of the travails of karma this is another person near the back you want you to ask something yes mmm yes beginning let's say yes and white also says that it's beginning less but with an end yes that's right yeah the answer might be God is doing this this is natural we are born with a parenthesis you are born with this ignorant the thing to do is you know what they say this question is it a natural when you come to a certain point of the hearing these things again and again this question has bound to come and come not just once it's bound to come again and again you know what the Swami's say in in in Uttarakhand in the Himalayas they say don't seek to establish ignorant seek to cut down ignorant a Ganga Protectorate karo a Ganga Carter what you're asking is how did this happen so instead of asking how did this happen clearly I am under the influence of such a thing how do I get out of it how did this happen no answer as one of the early Swami said on this side of ignorance we had the question and no answer on the other side of ignorance when we are enlightened they have the answer but no question yes so there a lot of discussion I think last time also we discussed this that there is no beginning to this and what does it mean no beginning it's not an caused thing which something has made but after all ignorance is not made by anything it's there to be cut down knowledge removes ignorance you want to add something to this yes so that's a very big engineering approach right so the Wittgensteinian approaches you don't solve philosophical problems you dissolve them so afterwards it's true that notice in the lives of enlightened people in any in Vedanta of course but any tradition one thing you'll notice is they don't have any question remaining over yes I am enlightened now and the Buddha now it's all good except one thing why did ignorant start at all it doesn't it bothers that it doesn't seem to bother them which means somehow the question is not valid where they can they would say the question is not correct and we have discussed this why the question is not correct I mentioned it on the different I will not go into it today it's a convoluted discussion and just to give you up those who have not heard this see you are asking why ignorant now when you ask why ignorant you are asking what are you asking for you're asking for a cause of ignorance whenever you ask why what answer will satisfy you a cause why is the grass wet because it rained or snowed so because you need a cause why is their ignorance you need a cause for ignorance but the question is valid for everything else except for ignorance why again why because of this ignorance the technical term is Maya space-time causation they shall call a nimitta now if you ask why Maya this is what you are asking basically why am i I talk what you're asking is why my am is equal to Y space-time causation Y causation causation is cause-and-effect whether once cause and effect is set into motion you can ask what is the cause of this effect what is the effect of this cause but why what is the cause of causation itself it's logically wrong you can't like you can't ask what's outside space without certain insider space words you can't ask what's before time this before and after a time words once time has started you can ask before him after one space is there you can ask inside and outside but outside space doesn't make sense before time does not make sense why a cause cause of cause does not make sense that's why why ignorance has no answer yes right so good karma is um we define it this way is the term for good karma in Vedanta is Dharma term for bad karma is a Dharma so Dharma is variously defined if you look at the dictionary definition of thermal you will find one page of the hormone it is defined as morality - defined as religion if you are asking what is morality then that's a big question you asked me a question about ethics what is good and what is bad there are many ways of defining it one way swami vivekananda all that is unselfish is good interesting you can you can problematize it all so you can you can in but it's a very powerful insight if you ask me whatever takes you to enlightenment is good whatever takes you away from enlightenment is bad sort of operational definition if you ask a strict believer in say a particular religion whatever my religion commands might take sacred texts command that is good whatever they prohibit that is bad now when I act in accordance with Commandments with the do's I am doing good when I violate the do's and would do something that is prohibited then I'm doing bad so this is Dharma and adharma this generates what is called Papa and punya merit and demerit and the result of Punia merit is suka happiness the result of proper demerit is unhappiness so this is basically the way the moral causality this is called law of karma yes sir Han Darius [Music] let me see if I can rephrase that are you asking what a what is relative relative to what are you saying ethics are relative or relative to what are you seeing are you seeing relative in the sense that what is good for one person might be bad for another person in that sense part of Maya is part of me yes are you asking what would be the purpose of all of this how is disconnected to the satchitananda the answer is it's not really connected the answer is from Advaita Vedanta perspective this cause law of causation karma good and bad good deeds bad deeds all of it is within the movie and the searched on and there is the screen on which the movie is playing it is not doing good deeds or bad deeds nor is it really affected by the not does it enjoy the results of the good deeds nor does it suffer the consequences of the bad deeds but but here's the nub that you will enjoy and suffer the consequences of the deeds that you have done this is enabled by satchitananda because it gives existence to everything it gives awareness to everything so so from the point of advaitha from the point of Vedanta what is what do you have to do with all this what's what's my perspective we wake under put it very powerfully he's said good good bad bad and none escaped the law law of karma good means Dharma good good Dharma leads to paneer leads to suka Dharma good action leads to merit leads to happiness bad bad bad action Adamo leads to pop a demerit leads to unhappiness the crime and none escaped the law he says nobody escapes the law it's under causation nobody means none of the ji was the the embodied beings under in ignorance he says whosoever wears a form must wear the chain to who cerveza four means we are all wearing forms here all bodies he said no where's our form means thinks that I am this one this is who I am if you think this is who I am then the Karma which produced this body that will have its effect on you you will also suffer you will also enjoy according to the merits and demerits behind this body and whatever you do with this body those actions also will come upon you so far is law of karma all this is within the movie yeah I see the hand wait just a minute we complete all this is within the movie then what is what is Vedanta saying what's all what is the point here where vikander says but far beyond name and form is Othman everfree know thou art that sannyasi bolts a ohm that's at oh all this is the movie all this is the appearance you are the reality of the appearance if to know that as long as you do not know yourself as you are as long as you identify yourself as the embodied being as this body being born and aging and dying as this mind which is doing good things and bad things when you think I am this one then the results the action done by this is you are you are a doer and the results will come upon you you will be the experiencer cut a bhakta this is exactly what the verse is saying you are neither the real you pure being pure consciousness and like Emerson said they say is that they know not the subtle ways who thinks the Slayers they think that I am slaying the slain things I am slain they know not the pure consciousness he is far beyond name and fame mmm far beyond name and farm is Atman everfree you beyond name and form if you would know yourself truly as you are you are set free immediately simple no the the screen of the movie the screen of the movie is not part of the plot of the movie the screen on which the movie is playing is not a part of the plot of the movie is not the villain who commits a murder not the police who comes in arrest the villain and all of that is not the screen screen has nothing to do with it and yet it is only because of the screen the whole thing is happening you as pure being an awareness you are unaffected by anything that happens in life you transcend it and yet you're not these are not two different things whatever is happening in the panorama of life is happening because of you you are because of your presence you lend existence to it you lend awareness to it bill do you remember your question yes yes right you know what there's a reason I'm smiling just a little while ago you know you are many of you know that tomorrow we had the interfaith conference the moderator of the panel is Swami at Meru pond and who is the Swami from Houston he just came and we got him from LaGuardia and in the car while coming back Swami at Meru ponder was telling me you know Bill had a question the question was how does the law of karma work because scientifically there must be some connection for causation to work so action done now in some life how can it produce a result in entirely different life somewhere where is the connecting link when I thump this table it's because my hand is in connection with the table that the sound is produced if there is no connection if there is no physical causality how is karma producing result so the Swami told me this is the question that bill had in the 1970s exactly the same question it's amazing that he should ask this right now here right yes so I don't think any answer that I'm going to give is going to resolve the question in so quickly yes so that's why you can raise a question about its scientific veracity but consider it this way karma has three effects according to the law of karma three effects are produced two of which stand the test of science what are the two results one is an immediate result you give food to a homeless man and the man eats and his is fed you can see that there's a physical result any work has a physical result which can be easily observed that's one effect the immediate effect the second effect is psychological keep sharing your food with somebody and somebody say and you starve to death no you get this psychology of sharing your character changes that also can be observed that that it's not not it's fairly uncontroversial you keep doing an action it becomes habitual keep doing good good becomes habitual it's not a struggle anymore why I said starve to death I remembered once we were driving along upstate New York there was a little restaurant as we were driving past I saw that in the remote there is nothing near it and it said on the top says eat here or we'll both starve I think the poor restaurant owner you know you remember that yes eat here or we'd both starve but it creates a habit of sharing so these two results the physical effect and the psychic effect both are you understand they're the they're the non-controversial the third one is what is called the cosmic effect that is where a question of belief comes in what is the cosmic effect that some action that I do now quite apart from the physical effect and the psychic effect will give me some kind of a result in some future time in this life or the next that's what we primarily mean by my Karma now there is the question bill is asking for that Karma what is the connecting link and it's not a question that says is they have not thought about we have thought about it the purva mimamsa cos the philosophers who are experts in the ritualistic portion of the Vedas so the ritualistic portion of the Vedas is all about Karma do good and get the results and then experience the results go to heaven or whatever so they had elaborate fire rituals you perform them and the result will be an accumulation of merit and with that accumulation of merit you go to heaven immediately the question is asked where is this accumulation of merit and how it is connected to going to heaven so they postulated something called a drifter a potency some kind of factory invisible factor which carries this result so you can see this question is what bill is asking must have occurred to them also why would the other otherwise come up this with this theory of a drishna in fact the word reached has entered into Indian languages so when people say they come have bad luck or something oh it's my other ished they don't know it's a technical term from 3000 years ago that term fell out of use when the theistic philosophies of religions philosophies in India became popular immediately you will notice whether it's a vaishnava tradition a Shaiva tradition or shark the tradition in whatever theistic tradition we have in hinduism everywhere among all the adjectives given to God all the qualities of God one objective is karma deeksha the dispenser of the results of karma or in other words answer to Bill's question is what connects karma to its results one answer for the believers for those who are believed in bhakti this is God is the connector God is thing but it shows that they thought about these questions and there were skeptics materialists chair Walker's who did not believe in God who did not believe in this adrift or whatever so one of the verses of the skeptics the chair Walker's goes like this there they're poking fun at the law of karma of the Moomin circus they are saying if the if the oblations offered here into the fire are taken by the fire fire is supposed to be at the one of the names of fire is who tava ha one who takes your oblations to the gods and so the gods will reward you by taking your departed ancestor your father to heaven that is the whole psychology you offer these sacrifices to the gods in the fire and the fire takes it - it's like FedEx you know it takes it to the gods a divine FedEx and the guards are happy with and they will make space for your dad and in heaven so if the offering here can take it the fire can take it to heaven then throw your father into the fire the it'll take your father to heaven stay that way that's the skeptic the charvaka it's a yes so the skepticism was there but if you ask me which way do you come down on I'll come down on the side of karma ultimately we're on the denial of karma so if there's one non dual reality what karma who's karma where will but in the level of transactional truth via Baja Rica karma is there why otherwise there is no explanation for moral causation good leads to good this implicit belief we have if you ask why did this happen to me the answer from religion would be maybe God is testing you or the Hindu or the Buddhist would say it is your karma what are these answers whether it's God or karma or whatever God is regarding our punishment punishing the Abrahamic religions might say that's also in a very general sense if you look deeper inside God does not reward and punish even in the Abrahamic religions God does not reward and punish erratically or whimsically God is just because God is just so the punishment in reward is also just which is another way of stating the law of karma now what are these answers these are answers to moral causation question of why is it happening not the physical part of it why did I what did this person who is so good why did this person get such illnesses what does science say or the answer is because you got infected by bacteria what you would say to that is or you are telling me how it happened I am asking why it happened because it could have happened to anybody why particularly this person for that science is no answer so this is science would say it's an accident there is no further you cannot push why beyond a certain right we'll give you the physical facts this is what happened you this person who ate contaminated food for example and therefore got a sickness and that's it but why did it happen to this person not anybody else for that there is no answer science will say it's an accident Lawrence Krauss the physicist he says if you keep asking why it's like a child who keeps asking why the only possible answer is go to bed but that will not satisfy any of us that everything is random everything is accidental then there is no moral purpose nothing no meaning behind any anything happening in the in the universe then so it leads to a very at least straight of it to the whole point back again I would say to the hard problem of consciousness is there any reality to us as conscious beings so that's why what I would say yes will again true we are not using the word law in the strict scientific sense because in the strict scientific sense if you use herbal the term law then the cause and effect must both be observed and the link must be observed and then only you can say it's a law how is the causation but in this case it's the effects and causes are not observed if you see the effects you don't see the causes there they will say in your past life if you see do the causes right now do some action you will get the results you don't see the results now in a future life you don't see them together until you see the correspondence you can't call it strictly a law but that's true of any moral law if you say law of honesty law of unselfishness so somebody asked why are you calling them laws it's not like the law of gravity you can't break the law of gravity if you try to break the law of gravity by jumping of a building you'll just die but say if you say honesty is allowed I can break that law see it is the question I can break that like and tell a lie so the beautiful answer to this I read somewhere it says these moral laws you actually cannot break these laws you can only break yourself against these laws the more you violate them the more you're violating yourself your inner integrity as a person you start falling apart internally it has an effect undoubted effect this you know this question everything that we are right now is it just genes and our nervous system and our environment or is it something beyond that so this is the topic of the debate which we are going to have next week is it the week after that 28th November I hear some tickets are still available at the Rubin Museum Steve Mitchell he is a neuroscientist scientist geneticist from Trinity College Dublin so I guess it's going to be a debate he is going to say that his point is his in a book in it which says everything that we are is hardwired there's nothing beyond this no consciousness or certainly nothing that survives death no question of any kind of soul or anything like that it's just this body that's all and I'm going to be talking about what we are just talking about so we are going to discuss this 28 and the Rubin Museum so if you are interested mark it in your diary and you have to register for it evening 7:30 I think yeah oh no did they do I hope they do now if you if you go to our website our website Brown society you will see a link to the Rubin Museum page on the right hand side you just go there on the top right click on the page it's a homepage itself there's a link click on that it will take you to the place where you register I think a few tickets I spoke with the I wrote to the director he said a few tickets are still left let's hear the questions wait and this gentleman first and then yes yes me right for that you have to understand what we are talking about here the consciousness in which everything is perceived including brain and nervous system also right now it's not a question of the enlightened person perceiving consciousness what is that enlightened person person realizes that I am consciousness does not see consciousness as an object you see the word which we used up Ramaiya not an object of awareness not an object of knowledge so the Atman the pure consciousness is not an object of knowledge just as we see this world just as we experience our own thoughts they are all objects of knowledge why because that's how you see them when you look at this book you are the person seeing and the book is an object to you are you with me when you sink a thought Swami has a book in his hand that's a thought that thought is an object to you and you are the experiencer of that thought but the consciousness which you are which is lighting up all these objects that is not an object that is what we are discussing here self-evident it cannot be denied it is without it nothing else is if you deny that somebody asked suppose you deny that there is such a thing there's a question in ancient philosophy ancient Indian philosophy they call it jagged under pressing the darkness the world plunged in darkness if you deny that awareness it's like this if you see my hand are you there are you seeing my hand say yes if you close your eyes are you seeing my hand you said no but are you there yes are you there as an aware being you are aware that your eyes are closed similarly imagine that you have closed the portals of all your senses are you still there though you are not seeing anything hearing anything smelling tasting touching anything are you still there you would say yes follow it further if you suppress your thoughts are you still there in and if you think about it intellectually you might say no it's doubtful er that will be there if I have there are no thoughts if you follow it intuitively you will see that you're very much there exist that you're not thinking when your mind is blank are you there or not when you're not perceiving when you're not thinking feeling emoting anything you're still there what is that and the other question that which is there in spite of shutting down the senses and the mind if you remove that and keep the senses mind and everything what will be your experience do you follow what will happen nothing you are entire everything will disappear you don't exist anymore that one is you and the rest are apps you can download them yes in fact the next verse we have run out of time all right let's just hear the questions next words very interesting it talks about what will happen when the apps start failing I so as we grow older memory is not working as well people become upset don't be upset you the consciousness you are aware of a keen memory you the consciousness you are ever aware of a faltering memory nothing nothing wrong to eat with you you are exactly the same as the body ages the brain also ages and so certain capacities everything slows down it's very natural and it should not upset you at all it's inconvenient it's inconvenient but that's all it's nothing wrong with you you are that same unchanged awareness undimmed awareness there were two other hands raised there bilious yes the way they have tried to establish the law of karma is through argumentation it's not a proof it's not an empirical proof it's not a mathematical proof it's more a proof like lawyers would argue the case in code what do lawyers do they supply a battery of reasons evidence reasons arguments for their case so that's how these philosophers who support the law of karma argue in absence of the law of karma what other option is there see there's this interesting book the problem of evil in Indian philosophy Arthur Harmon he is a professor of philosophy in Hawaii University he wrote this book you know the question is why is there evil in the world if God exists so this is a question that every theistic religion has to answer non theistic religions don't have transferred this right se Buddhists why is there evil in the world that's the nature of the world it's continuously changing and that gives rise to suffering that's it that's the way the world is it's changes and change gives rise to suffering but if your religion says God exists and this God is an all-powerful God all-knowing God and good God loving God all powerful and not loving you can see evil exists because it is a dictator and it may seem funny now but the ancients thought in that way in the pre Judaic religion there is a very interesting story that the story of Noah and the Great Flood so what what happened if you look at the story in Judaism the story is that God was angry with humanity because they violated the moral Commandments and so God wanted to punish them drown them all so God flooded the world and but he wanted everything to so he asked Noah who was righteous too and then our can take animals two by two and so on you know it's very interesting the same story was there in the Babylonian civilization same story but with one crucial difference in the Babylonian story mr. Futterman in the Mesopotamian story there is a counterpart to Noah there is an ark there is a flood there is the anger of God but the difference is this in the in the later story that is the Jewish story God did it why because it was just the human beings were awful and God punished them it was a just punishment because God is good we were bad they are punished see justice God did it because God is good now in the web of the Mesopotamian story why did God do it because the human beings get this they were so noisy gah God got disturbed and he wanted to shut them down literally the story so God did it because he could God was annoyed because you are disturbing God not because of any idea of good and bad so you are in the Mesopotamian stories God is just power like a dictator the same story evolution of God God doesn't evolve our conception of God evolves as we became more civilized we said God cannot just be a despot God must be a good person good God so God is just when in further evolution God is not only just God is also loving now if you have a loving and just God an all-powerful God why is there evil why is there suffering in this world if God was not all-powerful the world is like this because God has no other option this is the best he could do then a very poor designer then you can take him to consumer court or if God is perfect but but not loving then you can say he has got a designed ugly world because God wants us to suffer but loving God which of us parents would not want your children to be perfectly happy as human beings you can't do it but suppose you had all the power to make them happy make their life perfect which human parent wouldn't do it so God is our divine parent why doesn't God made to make life perfect if God is existing and omnipotent and all good and loving so this is called the problem of evil every religion has to answer the theistic religions in Hinduism also have to answer in Judaism Christianity Islam everybody answers to be there this is called the problem of evil no no no don't are you going to say something about this no hold on don't be quick to answer I don't be quick to ask another question stay with this question this is important so this is called the problem of evil and what is the answer different religions have come up with different answers in Christian theology this is called theodicy what does theodicy mean justifying the ways of God to man justifying the ways of God to man why God did this so there are many theories God is testing us you know no I don't like that theory alright God is making a strong and suffering makes a strong there many theories like this so see what answer fits you so what this professor Herman has done he's collected all the answers from the different religions of the world different philosophies of the world even from literature across human civilization what is the answer to the problem of evil and he's collected a list of 23 answers you think there's no answer to this question he gives you 23 answers but don't be so eager to look at the answers none of them will satisfy you I can guarantee it you will last answer he gives his law of karma this is the Indians came up with this idea of the law of karma and any examines it and he finds out the whole chapter on the flaws of the law of karma and he says even with this but this is by far the most it is the most superior answer you can get the most global it can explain many things which other things other answers cannot explain so he says so this is the best that civilizations have done over the last few thousand years and the law of karma interestingly Hindus have many many views within Hinduism but they all agree on the law of karma this don't even believe in God this admin that we are talking about but just have an entirely different idea about it but they have exactly the same idea of the law of karma the Jains had the same idea of law of karma the Sikhs so all the Indian civilizations they had religions they believe in this one senior Swami he put it this way yeah buddy come here that way this is a very profound principle because schools of thought across thousands of years with multiple philosophies multiple theories who disagree on almost every other point agree on this point so this is that so we're asking what is the justification for law of karma it's like a battery of arguments if you read Harmons book you will find lot of arguments in favor of the law of karma why it should be something like this because the alternatives are completely unpalatable yes that is true that's what I was just saying earlier science can go science economics all of this can explain something but it will only tell you the how it will not ultimately answer the why why ultimately this particular baby had to suffer in in say buzz born in a famine infested area and starve to death why you can give all sorts of economic reasons political reasons scientific reasons it will not close the explanatory gap you'll still have a moral why why this one and not somebody else there science will tell you that's not a question we cannot abandon that question that's the most vital question throws us to our hearts this lady there yes the atman yes yes it's not not almost like it is the who am i question that's a yes it is a method it's a methodology and what we done to says is it's not something vague in fact it's the most when you understand properly what wadn't is trying to say it's the most obvious of things you say it can't be understood through science but what Vedanta will say all your science is done by that consciousness without that consciousness you do not see you do not hear smell taste touch as Emerson said I am the doubter and the doubt where is a doubt but in your awareness where are you the doubter but in awareness itself switch off that that thing in the back you know beyond the senses beyond the mind that that awareness switch it off nothing remains no science religion nothing remains yes a case for yes it cannot be directly perceived but the method is that you catch it the language the uses it is perceived by itself it is self revealed you know it intuitively I as I am that and it's not in fact everything else depends on it you might think that's vague or that's not how do I know that's true in fact truth and falsity all are proved because of its presence it's the most once you get what they are talking about it's the most indubitable thing in the universe because your entire life depends upon it so it's not proved by the methods with ordinary methods of knowledge by by ordinary epistemology but what wadn't will say epistemology depends on it all the methods of knowledge depend on it it's like trying to say that the proof that these people are here is that I see them what's the proof that you are here I saw you so the question is the principle is if you see it that's the proof for its existence now if I ask what is the proof that I've got eyes because I can't see my eyes not directly the way I'm seeing you if the proof for existence is seeing and I cannot see my eyes the conclusion would be that denies don't exist and yet what would the real answer be the very fact that you are seeing anything at all is a proof every seeing is a proof of two things the object that you are seeing and the eyes themselves though the eyes themselves are not objects which you see out there similarly consciousness is proved by everything in your life once you begin to understand what we ran to says everything in your life points to you the awareness and it's that conscious operating the mind and sense organs which stands as witness to the presence or absence of other things in fact as she said at the very beginning it's a good way to end the the existence of objects is what can be doubted the existence of the subject cannot be doubted it is what lights up the doubt and you know your faith doubt all of these come and go in consciousness so this approach is not an approach of faith what is an approach of faith the guard based approach is an approach of faith that there is such a thing the moment you say I am that thing you don't have to you don't need faith to say that it's like saying that suppose I ask you that when you come and you sign your name and I want to know if you came I have to look at the register that whether you were in the class at look at register and testifies to your presence now if I want to know whether I was in the class do have to look for my name in the register was identical maybe if it's in the long pass but right now no because my own presence is revealed to me directly what is that all right we'll end here and the next class is yeah the next class is there next Friday the next verse I wanted to do it today but we'll do it next time also with it so it's all one of those verses which are chanted when somebody dies shantih shantih shantih he hurry he own that sat sri ramakrishna Aparna must