Video 68

68. Bhagavad Gita I Chapter 5 Verses 20-21 I Swami Sarvapriyananda

[Applause] [Music] guru so in our study of the bhagavad-gita we were studying fifth chapter and the part we are studying is ghana yoga the path of knowledge or the way of knowledge in fact it makes more sense to say the stage of knowledge because this is preceded by all sorts of spiritual practices there is karma yoga where we engage ethical and disinterested action disinterested in the sense not that without interest but in the sense of without selfish motive and that purifies the mind and then we engage in not then means not sequentially together with that we engage in worship devotion to god uh meditation so all of that gives us purification of mind and concentration of mind with the purified and concentrated mind as we continue our study of the upanishads the bhagavad-gita and you know vedantic texts there comes a point when there is a breakthrough when we clearly see that it is true that i am really not the body it's not something theoretical that i'm studying it's you know sometimes the breakthrough not sometimes always the breakthrough is so powerful that's why the breakthrough is um always classified as you know enlightenment mystical realizations always accompanied by it's like a stunning moment unforgettable in your life it's always effortlessly before and after but the technically speaking it's not a new experience it's like recognizing what has always been there technically speaking a new experiences when you meet somebody new when you see something new that's a new experience but when you suddenly realize something about somebody you already knew or a place you have already seen it's new knowledge about an existing experience do you see the difference so only thing is i'm a little hesitant about calling it new knowledge because immediately we confuse it with getting some new information it's not just new information it's a it's a huge huge uh matter and it's the most profound experience one can have in in life so you can call it an experience that's why enlightenment is called an experience this is all from the vedantic perspective from a devotional or yogic perspective it is an experience it is a new experience there is no doubt about it now once that breakthrough is made then what happens that's what we were talking about um in the last few classes all these verses are about that for example very powerful verses which we saw last time so the 18th and 19th verses which talk about seeing the same reality everywhere all the time seeing means only within quotes you're not actually seeing some reality with your eyes you know it to be that same reality what you are seeing with your eyes continues your eyes will only see forms ears will only hear sound and so all the senses they keep on functioning the way they have been functioning but now you realize what you see hear smell taste or touch what you think remember desire all the activities of the senses all activities of the mind the reality underneath them and the reality that they reveal is nothing other than one being awareness one unlimited being awareness so you see the same reality everywhere and the 18th verse said vidya vinaya sampane brahmana in an enlightened person who is fully learned in the sacred scriptures and all the results of enlightenment are there literally it means knowledge and humility knowledge in him but it stands for enlightenment and all the results of that enlightenment that means this person is a saint is uh so that person and a cow and a dog and the most inferior kind of person it's put in the center in the language of the ancient caste system so there it is very hierarchical the brahmin who was very learned and had all virtues was considered the highest the the you know at the top of the hierarchy of society and the low caste chandala who was you know not learned and given to all kinds of crude behavior and eating prohibited food is a dog eater was considered the lowest in society so in human society from the highest to the lowest in animals in all living beings like an elephant or a cow or whatever in all beings you saw the same exactly the same divinity radiating through so sometimes you know a lot of discussions going go on now and that how the bhagavad-gita is cast east and i'm sure it is a product of a of a very cast conscious society there's no doubt about it but the teaching here is just the opposite i don't know why people don't um emphasize that it's the most radical kind of equality the most radical kind not even equality sameness you're considering the person who's the highest in your hierarchy and the person who is the lowest in your hierarchy and even people and things which are outside your hierarchy like animals all of them to be uh the same and not the same in some very the lowest like they're all material they're all like physical living beings not in that sense you are considering them all to be divine so that kind of radical oneness sameness equality it's just not bought out i mean i have been in for example discussions at the harvard divinity school on bhagavad-gita there's always somebody who says that it is a misogynistic book it is a cast test book and often they are that's the new political line actually so it's something they know those lines by heart and they don't know the gita at the most they may know one or two quotes which they will use to justify their position and they have never bothered to read any of the rest at all anyway so the enlightened person sees the same divinity everywhere there are a lot of discussions about this in the commentaries how is this enlightenment after all what is wisdom wisdom is to treat equal equal beings equally and unequal beings unequally how can you see the same in unequal beings and be called enlightened who is enlightened who gives honor to the learned brahmin and will treat an animal like an animal will treat a an inferior person like an inferior person that's common sense and here you are teaching something just just the opposite and you're saying the person who who treats all of these obviously different people obviously different beings such as vast differences and you're saying they see the same thing in all of them how is this this is craziness but no you're saying this is enlightenment i i give the example of the holy mother who said just as sharath is my son amjad 2 is my son so sharath being swami saradananda being a a decorator highway man a muslim highwayman and she says that exactly the same just as then and that person is called pandita wise why is pandita the technical meaning of pandita is one who has who has realized the nature of the self atma panda panda means the wisdom or the enlightenment about the self the one who has it is called a pundit then the next verse said hear itself one goes beyond the cycle of birth and death so the second result of this enlightenment first result is you see sameness everywhere one divinity everywhere um and sameness to the highest order that means they are all equal and equal as god and then the next benefit is you go beyond life and death beyond the cycle of life and you you conquer death one who sees the same divine divinity everywhere how do you do that uh because you realize you are brahman as consciousness and that consciousness never dies after all what is death death is the death of the physical body and after the death of the physical body even the mind does not die i was talking about this yesterday in a class in organized by san diego without society you see the simple logic death so from a vedantic perspective what's happening any person we meet right now when we talk to a person we see actually two series going on together one is the physical body which is changing from childhood to youth to middle age to old age and then death and there is the subtle body thoughts feelings emotions the person in that body and remember we have no direct access to the person uh from outside we have access only to the physical body a doctor a scientist or any ordinary person we can see and interact only with the physical body and how do we know that there is a person that person speaks to us and tells us his or her own thoughts and feelings and desires and emotions and wants and so we know that there is a person there's a person in this body i know by direct experience i know i know my own thoughts and feelings but in you there is a person because you tell me so now when this two series a physical series and a subtle body series is there only one i can interact with the one i can interact with dies that's the physical death how can i be sure that the one behind it the person is dead there is no way of finding out at no point have you been able to access that second person directly so then how do you know the only way we know that the person is also dead does not exist anymore is if you accept a little bit of dodgy logic that somehow that person is being produced by the brain and nervous system of this living body when the body dies the brain and nervous system are dead and therefore that person doesn't exist anymore now that's called a materialistic reduction materialistic reductionism only if you buy into it a lot of people do but if you actually examine the logic behind it and you compare it with what i said compared with your own experience it doesn't fit the day they solve the so-called hard problem of consciousness and show that the brain actually generates causally generates consciousness then i'll i'll agree that there might be something to it until that point no not only that there is no right now the state of the art is that there is no way in principle also of solving the heart problem of consciousness there's no promising theory in in the field at all it cannot be that that is basically the heart problem of consciousness which david chalmers has pointed out that in principle it's insoluble you cannot reduce consciousness to matter therefore the mind cannot be reduced to the physical body when the physical body dies the mind goes on and mind means here i'm including the subtle the whole subtle body mind intellect memory ego mana buddhi tahankara the pranic system the pranamaya kosha manomaya kosha vigna my kosher all of it together that's that's constitutes the subtle body our subtle body that goes on and i the real consciousness awareness itself which the vedanta talks about even you're not even that person you're the impersonal consciousness wearing the cloth being limited into persons so that goes on that is life and death that goes on we it takes up new bodies and we are we the consciousness being identified with the subtle body we also feel that i am in this life and this is my body this is my life and we continue in that cycle you are freed of the cycle when you suddenly realize i am not the physical body i am not even the subtle body i'm not the physical body which is born and dies of physical death i am not even the subtle body which was not born with physical birth which did not die with physical death but which is subject to change which is subject to waking dreaming deep sleep which is subject to depression and elation and misery and all of that i'm not even that i'm the awareness uh which is aware of all of this and all of this i'm like the vast blue sky in which all these are like cloud formations they are farm and they play around there are storms and then they all disappear and the blue sky remains a vast blue sky all the time i am that that sky of awareness once you realize that you're free eva in this very life what a strong statement while remaining in this body you're free this is called jivan mukti many philosophies do not accept it many schools in india also they said that this kind of freedom is available only after death as long as you're in a body you can be a very spiritual person that's all but you cannot be perfected you cannot be free freedom comes with physical death for not for everybody only for the very saintly people this is not the view of vedanta because you as pure consciousness awareness you're always free you're all you already are free so the tibetan buddhists let me at this point talk about the um four kinds of freedom which tibetan buddhists talk about it's part of their zogchen philosophy um as far as i've been able to understand it's pretty close it's a very beautiful uh you can consider an extension of what we are talking about here how are we free all the time so they talk about a primordial freeness primordial freedom the primordial freedom is anadi in the sense of the beginningless freedom the consciousness that you are is free with the from you know beginninglessly at no point was it bound just like that vast blue sky it is free it is not attached to any of the clouds which come it is not affected by any of the storms which take place in that vast blue sky it's not even polluted by the you know the pollution the greenhouse gases that we release into the sky the atmosphere gets polluted sky never gets polluted space cannot be polluted that way so it is ever free um you are not a sky you are awareness awareness is ever free before the birth of the body during the body during when it seems that we are bound when we are in ignorance even then you are actually free and afterwards also you're free this is called primordial freedom the second freedom they talk about freedom or liberation they call it liberation second freedom they call about talk about is the self liberation at the moment to moment so as we are living right now right now in this body and mind there are different things which are arising and disappearing in our consciousness apologies carefully this is a very subtle insight that sort of many things which are arising and disappearing in our consciousness perceptions sight sound smell taste touch thoughts good not so good pleasant um you know obsessive all kinds of thought formations are arising and disappearing now those tend to bind us you may say it's all right that you feel that you're free but you feel bound when these things happen when the world oppresses you when your mind gets disturbed in spite of everything it gets disturbed then you feel you're bound then what do you do so this is the second kind of freedom which you can apply from moment to moment whatever arises in awareness use that to become aware of yourself as awareness whatever arises in awareness um here this book is arising in my awareness so immediately how you apply something like rigorous multiple ways out there so this book is there and it appears from this book instead of being obsessed with the book i become aware that the eyes are seeing the book and then blink my eyes i note that my mind is noting the blinking of the eyes then i note that the mind is thinking about the eyes the thoughts in the mind are appearing in awareness i am that awareness is that awareness bound no so use any kind of arising in awareness like this book as a reason any kind of arising in awareness to dissolve that arising it could be a feeling it could be a perception you dissolve it that's called freedom that's called moment-to-moment self-freedom they call it um they use the idea of emptiness of that arising to see that it's nothing but pure consciousness it's awareness only third one they use is called direct liberation or direct freedom direct freedom means forget about eternally being free forget about what is arising in consciousness right now just notice the is-ness awareness the presence you are aware you are and you shine that is-ness is shining that's what you are and apart from that don't think about i'm a man a woman i'm a spiritual seeker i'm a hindu vedantist buddhist all that is later just that satchit is-ness awareness that's directly present all the time like in a clay pot shankaracharya says the clay is blazing forth all the time it's choicelessly when you see a clay pot you're choicelessly seeing the clay here your choicelessly existence awareness is shining forth now this is always available to us so this is called direct liberation and the last one they call a complete liberation which i don't understand so much which i think is something maybe it's something like jeevan mukti which is which becomes natural to you like ramana maharshi's you know what he called the natural samadhi the the sahaja samadhi probably i'm not sure you have to ask a expert in tibetan buddhism anyway the verse said such a person sees the same divinity everywhere what does this person experience brahma the vastness is the same everywhere and dosh it is faultless it is stainless it is free of karma papa punya good and bad merit and demerit which tires in samsara it's free of that all the time it's free of that you are free of that you are fartless you are stainless you the the absolute reality the pure consciousness not you the person and the person will have will is caught in the measures of karma and the person and you are not you the absolute are not two different things you the absolute alone appear as the person the moment you realize you're the absolute it basically dissolves the reality of the person you are the reality the absolute except that as long as the person's is there the person's body mind will continue for a little more time you call the enlightened while living then what happens 20th verse [Music] [Music] the knower of brahman who is established in brahman poised in mind and undeluded is not elated on getting what is pleasant nor feels worried on getting what is unpleasant so how is this enlightened person different from us what happens to us is priya apria and harsha and udvayga so priya means what is pleasant what is favorable what is agreeable present favorable agreeable to what to my body to my senses to my mind to the person that i consider myself to be so it could just be nice weather that's nice to the body it could just be nice food it's nice to the taste the or nice thing to see or it could be a person who behaves nicely with me so it's something pleasing to the personality to the person that i am these are all called priya and there is exactly the opposite or it could be just to just a person who belongs to my way of thinking it's very agreeable especially if you're a thinker a person is a vedantist a non-dualist oh you you like you get along well like a house on fire but suppose a person is a materialist or a completely or even a theist who is very narrow and dogmatic that only this path is right and everything else is wrong and you're all going to burn in hell now that is aprea that is very unfavorable unfavorable unpleasant to whom to the person who has got a certain set of ideas it could be a vedantist also so you have priya and a prayer favorable unfavorable pleasant unpleasant it could be present and unpleasant to the body to the senses to the mind to the personality included in the personality is your ideology are you a republican or a democrat are you a non-dualist or a dualist or whatever so all those things they play on the personality and there is nothing wrong with this even the enlightened person will see that this is according to my tastes the tastes of this body or the ideas of this person this is not according to the taste of the ideas it's not favorable both both will come priya and apria will come the knowledge of priya and a prayer the knowledge of favorable unfavorable pleasant and unpleasant will come to the enlightened person will come to the unenlightened person one second we'll come to the enlightened person we'll come to the under enlightened person but what is the difference in the unenlightened person it will evoke a strong reaction what is favorable will evoke harsh pleasure happiness you know this is great and what is unpleasant what is seen as unpleasant and unfavorable will rio evoke a reaction of udvega anxiety disturbance restlessness unhappiness and this is wrong why first of all it creates unhappiness it ties you to the world it's a bondage but deeper it's false you are reacting to something which is not ultimately true a pleasant sight why should it evoke um you know joy in in in brahman in absolute reality a pain why should it evoke you know despair or unhappiness in that absolute reality these are appearances does the does the movie screen get upset with a with even even you though who are watching the movie do you really get upset with the tragedy do you really get very happy with the comedy you may laugh in the comedy you may even creep with the tragedy but both are aesthetic experiences to you you are not deeply upset you are not seriously so the enlightened person may go along with the flow of life may enjoy what is present may note the disturbance and the pain caused by what is unpleasant but if you ask are you really really suffering or do you really really want this is there a strong desire for this is a strong repulsion from that raga and no no this is the difference he says when something pleasant comes along comes along means by your karma a pleasant thing a pleasant person pleasant incident situation comes along you don't get related it's fine there's a saying buddhist meditation let it come let it be let it go let it come it'll come let it be and you go also let it go you are not particularly um tied up with it or invested in it but the unenlightened person likes it so much wants to hold on to it wants to repeat that experience wants to have more of it wants to have varieties and flavors of that experience and the opposite no dwight oprium when the unpleasant comes along pain comes a disease comes um for a celebrity i saw in hollywood the greatest tragedy is not being famous not being in the news that comes being famous and then not being famous anymore being recognized and then not being recognized anymore there is it's a great tragedy no it's not a tragedy no duijet you meet people who are completely opposed to your point of view do you get restless annoyed no not at all it is just a dharma a property of that particular subtle body just as this is this is the property of your subtle body this set of ideas in your subtle body at this point that set of ideas in that subtle body at that point that's all underlying it you are the same consciousness they're also the same consciousness you and that one are the same whom to praise whom to blame when praise praiser praised blamer and blamed are but one literally with whom will you be upset and whom will you love when you wake up from a dream and you think about all those you met in the dream nobody they're really not literally different from you no no none of them was really your enemy none of them is really your friend they where you literally you so stir up with the three words are used very nice stirabuddhi of settled conviction assam mura undeluded brahmavid knower of brahman brahmani's tita centered in brahman so the brahmani shrita how do you how are you centered in brahman three steps brahmavir sirabuddhi assam murder one interpretation is this brahmavir means knower of brahman that is what you get by shavana by systematically studying vedanta you know that you are drama just like we all do now and then you have many doubts you reason it out it's long process when that is moral is reasonably accomplished you become tirabudi conviction comes clarity comes and then you engage in nidhiddhasana vedantic meditation till it becomes a living reality for you and the ups and downs of life cannot sweep you away you know what you are but you keep getting swept away that also will not happen it becomes natural to you aham brahmasmi that is called assam murder that is the result of nidhasana that's one interpretation but another interpretation is all of this is after enlightenment that one was shavana manana needed dihasana you know it but it's not yet it's not a living reality for you you have many doubts after that you resolve all the doubts now you know it and you know i have no more doubts also and but it's still not living for you and then you meditate upon it assimilate it till it becomes a living reality and then you are enlightened you are a jivan mukta but at that point these three are also applicable if after making the breakthrough after making the breakthrough from there to jivan mukti there might be a gap so once one is one knows that i am this endless vastness this awareness what the buddhists call the clear light of the void i am this you have no doubt about it no intellectual doubts and at no point is there any shaking in that clarity or conviction it's effortless for you still it's um it's still it's not easy to navigate life still the world affects you still you get affected a little bit you still have the tendency of behaving according to your earlier conditioning the body mind continues with its own tendencies why would that happen if it has not been sufficiently purified earlier there's a whole difference between two groups you know um our uh vidyarya calls it the kritopasti and is a person like who has come who has completed all the stages of sadhana spiritual practice purification of mind concentration of purification of mind to the point of desirelessness concentration of mind to the point of samadhi then you make the breakthrough then the transition to jivan mukti being fully enlightened while living is effortless but vidyarnia points out in this age he says in this age 700 years ago so it's not just the 21st century this is a problem in the 14th century also in this age there are people who have who may make a breakthrough but uh who have not completed the entire process of spiritual purification so they need to go through this purification in order to why because once they made the breakthrough they're free he says it is very clear once you've made the breakthrough you realize your brahman you're free because that cycle of birth and death is over for you but right now in this body and mind suppose you want to enjoy the bliss of the freedom of enlightened living then you must become centered in brahman that centering in brahman these two for that person the spiritual practices will be somewhat different before that the spiritual practices are for becoming enlightened but this person is is in a technical sense already enlightened so this person just has to remain centered brahmani sita remain centered in grammar in two ways stays with the conviction and clarity he or she has gained stay with it don't give in to the mechanical pattern way of thinking you know the old patterns of i am body and mind don't give in to that that requires effort and asamura undiluted when the waves of passion anger pettiness all the problems which were there in the mind earlier because the mind has been conditioned when they arise you must push back against it so the both ways stay with the new knowledge of gain after all if you are so clear that you are brahmana why not stay with it why not behave accordingly and if you're so clear you're brahmana why do you behave like a body mind so that behaving like a body mind losing becoming angry or jealous or petty or or depressed or unhappy or overcome by sorrow or the problems of the world that is called mura deluded asam mura not deluded that's also a practice let me see by the way one thing before i forget i was meaning to tell you i was reading in the conversations with swami premesha nandaji swami suhitanji who was on uh an attendant of my premier he took down extensive notes of his discussions of what premiershines used to say and those are now being published in vedanta kesari as reminiscences of shar gachi so uh in one place swain premishanti says something interesting he says cultivation of steady mind somebody said that cultivation you mean serene mind peaceful mind and swami's premise he said no no no i mean steady mind this is very important until you're fully enlightened until your jivan mukta in the path of knowledge in the path of devotion if you are a meditator whatever you are the mind will get disturbed it is no easy thing for the mind to remain serene even if you are a devotee if there is sorrow if there is physical pain if that somebody disease is there somebody close to you becomes ill disease death or some anxiety is there financial anxiety job anxiety so many problems can come or even the not only physical illness mental illness that's also it's a body there's nothing to be really ashamed or worried about it's a body subtle body is a body if those things come it's very difficult for the mind to remain calm it's very difficult for the mind to remain peaceful so then you'll feel that oh i failed to maintain peaceful mind swami premier sanji says no no don't make that mistake trying to cultivate a peaceful a serene mind it's a subtle mistake try to cultivate steady mind steady mind which is not shaken by the ups and downs of life i am a spiritual practitioner i shall do my spiritual practices these are my ethical standards i shall not break them this this is the way i deal with people i see the divinity in everybody i try to do that this is what i'll do i'll struggle to do i may fail also this is steady mind does not matter what happens in the world what happens in the family what happens in the body what happens in my mind does not matter let the mind become unhappy let the mind get scared let the mind be depressed let other people behave you have no control it's so difficult to control our own mind we have no control over how other people behave so uh premeshanji says cultivate steady mind steady mind requires strength in times of trial and tribulation strength to hold on to god and devotion if you're a devotee to hold on to the clarity did i not claim that i have clearly understood i am awareness then why am i worried about the little problem the shakiness in one mind in one body why i am the immortal atman there is nothing greater than me why am i worried so that's terriness this is another problem of trying to cultivate serene mind or peaceful mind is they it inculcates selfishness it inculcates weakness serene mind peaceful mind that's the result of enlightenment which we are talking about here but before that if i try to maintain serenity then what will happen is i'll i'll end up avoiding trouble but you cannot avoid trouble in life your past karma will bring you trouble even if you're careful to avoid trouble some situation don't go out into troublesome situations don't try to mix with troublesome people so as sriram krishna says the tiger narayana is narayana is lord but you have to bow down to the tiger lord from a distance don't go and embrace the tiger lord so that applies at every level of life but still the fact remains one cannot avoid it our prayer of the karma will bring trouble to us trial and tribulation and trouble will will come to us that is the nature of karma their peaceful mind serene mind will not help unless you are already enlightened they can maintain a peaceful mind but we cannot so we have to maintain what can we do we have to maintain steady mind you have to say it doesn't matter i shall persist i shall be strong i shall be calm i shall be unmoved i shall persist with my spiritual practices so that i found a very very good advice that is something practical for all of us and um too much pursuit of a peaceful mind you are beyond suffering that's very attractive and then the the subtle message that goes into our subconscious is i must practice that now i must try to be beyond suffering right now you can't be you can't be and the life has a way of rudely awakening us if you say that i am peaceful everything is fine now i've gone to a very high spiritual level life will teach us it gives such a kick kicks and blows from the life will come then we'll then the dangers will feel that all spiritual practices are not working no they are working but you shouldn't expect peaceful or serene mind before enlightenment um suramar krishna swami turian did he says and his old age physical ailments and he would get a cranky sometimes then he would say that this is only on the surface you would say in bengali it's like a mass of ice within i'm so calm and like it's absolutely peaceful with it so that's always available to an enlightened person and at least we can try to some extent so the takeaway is steady mind don't be so worried about whether mind is peaceful or not steady mind let's look at the questions where is the chat okay um bill says the same sightedness about all in verse 18 seem to be the same as the spirit of the ram krishna mission yes shiva gana jivaseva to see to serve all beings knowing them to be shiva correct knowing them to be shiva the lord resides in the hearts of all beings reika kalikar says how should one react to these ill-informed and unfounded criticism against the gita since the bias is so strong i think you better not react because it seems to be a fashion today see the it has a source in something good and noble there there's no doubt there has been caste discrimination and uh you know so that has led a lot of human suffering and there's no doubt that you know what you call misogyny this anti-woman attitude but that's been patriarchal attitudes have been there in every religion these were patriarchal societies so it's common to every religion it's not that particularly so in india or in gita or something so all these these criticisms they come from a good place but now it's like political ideology it is fashionable i remember in one class at harvard university studying the bhagavad-gita so one gentleman came and i found the least informed and the least respectful where the indians the the hindus there were only two hindus in the there were three apart from the monks one was very uh very interested and she was a exchange student from another university and she had really read the gita and she was very interested in doing that in coming to the class there were two others one of whom could hardly read a single word of sanskrit whereas i saw uh white and asian people who were you know experts on judaism experts on christianity and they were interested in the gita reading sanskrit so well and it's so that was one thing and there's a there's another young person who'd come from another harvard school but the only point was that isn't this a discriminatory book that's the only point he could raise and he knew nothing about the bhagavad-gita yeah so it's a kind of fashion better to ignore these fashions meditation can affect the brain which means the mind affects matter so there must be a bridge between mind and matter can this bridge not be transferred in reverse matter creating mind the solving the heart problem um is there a bridge between mind and matter obviously don't make too much of the independence of mind over matter subtle body is not the physical body uh i stress that so much that people will get the impression that they're absolutely two independent things not at all when they when they when they function they're very closely linked together it's not that the subtle body does not depend on the physical body without the physical body there's almost nothing that the subtle body can do so it requires a physical body for all kinds of activities so if there is a bridge so there is a bridge but the bridge does not bridge connects the two banks of the river but the bridge does not create either bank so it's not that mind creates matter or might matter creates mind neither in from from an athletic perspective neither is created there's no creation at all consciousness alone appears as a matter in mind and a good way of understanding this is look just look at our dreams dreams are not um consciousness appearing as the world it's rather the dreamer's mind my common sense view of the dream what's the dream is the dreamer's mind appearing as many subjects and objects as many people many living beings and many non-living beings space time all is created by a mind but it's not really created the mind alone appears in that way um so can this bridge not be transversed in reverse what is transversing the bridge in reverse that matter affects the mind of course it affects the mind but matter creating the mind look at the the imbalance in the example you give an example of how mind effects matter so meditation for example can affect the brain it does um but it affects the brain did we prove that mind created the brain no we didn't prove that similarly you cannot prove that matter creates the mind a brain creates the mind far less brain creating consciousness but there is a very close interaction that also sometimes we spiritual people we you know eastern philosophy we tend to speak as if there are two different things if they're two different things why is there a body at all let the mind do everything no it can't it's like saying software and hardware independent yes they are but the software can't do a single thing without a device you need a computer or some kind of device somewhere rick says what do you say to sam harris and others who say that there is no person nothing which could be called a self if they were to accept the existence of a subtle body they would probably say that there's no self in that either it's just a collection of uh components it's true um it's a buddhistic perspective and we are actually saying the same thing there is no self in any of these for example the physical body see this is the difference normally without examination when you ask are you a person are yourself yes we feel that what is this self we'll start with the physical body we think we are this so vedanta shows us science shows us all of it neuroscience buddhism shows us this body cannot be the self then you transfer that thing to the mind so you know buddhist perspective with the would be the five aggregates out of those five aggregates one is physical the other four are actually mind including the vigna's kanda the translator is consciousness pillar consciousness aggregate but it's not consciousness aggregate it's the mind it's the reflected consciousness in the mind so none of these are the self there is no self in any of them that's what the buddhist dialectic aims to prove but the buddhist dialectic does not prove does not even address the issue of the background awareness that which is appearing as body mind so it escapes the net of the dialectic with this dialectic and the buddhist would not want to attack that also because that's what at least according to tibetan madhyamaka buddhism that's what it is or many schools of i i understand i gather of chinese mahayana also that's what where they are pointed actually that there is uh an infinitude of awareness of a being which is not a thing it's not a specific thing called a self but that's the ultimate nature of the self only they would not call it a self because their whole doctrine is no self rick archer says they also say that it's so for example then you said the subtle body they would probably say there's no self in that it's just a collection of components that's what advaita vedant also says the subtle body is a collection of components it's not ultimately the atman we just think it's the atman and then vedanta shows you why it cannot be the self it's not the self also rick says they also say there is no free will since there is no one to have it vedantas understand it says that there is free will limited by proud of the karma so who has that free will it's the one who thinks that i am free who is that he said it doesn't exist if it doesn't exist then there's no question of free will but you do feel that there is somebody who exists like that and that that i am and i seem to have a limited degree of free will and all our vehicle transactions in this world they all depend upon this concept of free will you can't have a justice system without free will whom will you blame whom will you punish whom will you imprison unless you attribute free will to their freely build illegal action then only it can be prosecuted so all of voting democracy it's all based on free will choice our economic system based on free will choice so you have to admit and buddhists vedantists all of them they admit free will but at what level at vewaharika transactional level a transaction level everything that is required for our day-to-day activities is admitted yes there is a body yes there are other bodies yes there isn't there's language and language means something language refers to some reality there yes there is some kind of free will upon analysis no none of it holds together the teaching in this verse seems to be related to chapter 2 verses yes 56 and 57 chapter 2 verses 56 and 57 which uh talk about the characteristic of the perfected one the one who is free while living of established enlightenment or established realization let me just do the next verse and then we'll see the questions 21 by he whose mind is unattached to the external objects of the senses attained to that bliss that is in the self he with his mind identified with brahman through absorption in it enjoys undecaying bliss so this is the question the enlightened person is the enlightened person happy or not very very happy i'm happy to tell you that the enlightened person is is extremely happy even in the sense we we understand happiness there is no philosophical subtlety two ways about it the enlightened person is very happy in fact one of the reasons why i became a monk was i told a monk when i was a kid in the monastery near our house you know you guys you don't have a house and a car and a family and kids and money like my mom and dad have but you're always happy and they're almost never happy [Music] so and and the monk said something wise he said that it's not just because of being a monk maybe you haven't met householder devotees of that caliber who are also very pure and happy in mind but it's a question of being spiritual that's what he told me so yes enlightened people spiritual people by just enlightened spiritual people are happy [Music] who is unattached to external contact what does that mean see the whole of delusion or illusion starts because we do not know ourselves as this infinite is-ness awareness we don't know that we don't feel that and therefore we feel we are small we are this body this mind this little creature being feeling small and limited small and limited means i am dependent on the world to satisfy my hunger and thirst because i am this body for to live and to satisfy my senses to satisfy my mind i am totally dependent on this word so i keep looking for things in the world outside bihas pasha external touch this external touch can be external physically external like a cookie which i taste that's an external test touch also it could be internal that is also an external touch because internal in a sense internal in the mind pleasant thoughts and daydreams are nice i'm attached to that or it could be cultivation of some kind of high art mathematics i have seen artists um painters mathematicians they are deeply absorbed in in the inner rich inner life that gives much higher pleasure than external things i heard about the great composer who went deaf and yet he composed i think was it um bach or beethoven i think it was a better one yes imagine a composer who you would think that the person would be entirely dependent on senses on the on the ear on the finest of hearing not at all it's a more internal thing than actually hearing something physically um so their joy is much greater the joy of a create of a writer the joy of of a scientist pondering upon a scientific problem and i have personally seen pure mathematicians so pure mathematicians are almost entirely creatures of thought and intellect there's a great joy in that very intense kind of thinking deeply hour after hour day after day i asked a monk who's a pure mathematician he gave a wonderful talk on vedanta i said how could you give a like 45 minute talk on one argument from the beginning to end it was like a mathematical proof step by step by step he developed the argument so he said that's how we are trained so if you're a pure mathematician he's a topologist so you have to follow the follow one argument for hours and days and weeks and months if necessary this is one track of thought you can't lose um you can't think in a scattered way so that gives great joy that's also external contact that's touch you give become dependent on that i've also seen mathematicians scientists who become very unhappy once the mind stops working a great philosopher i know very unhappy he was a master of eastern and western philosophy both one of the most learned people i've met but very unhappy why stroke brain is not functioning and memory failure so unhappy now that's because i'm dependent on the intellect i'm dependent on the memory that's still biased person but the enlightened person is literally means one who's centered in brahman so this person who realizes i am brahmana and this knowledge is not dependent on the intellect it's not even dependent on memory it's not even depend usually my people ask so i become enlightened and i realize all this and we're still mind is working right mind is necessary for enlightenment suppose my mind goes breaks down then it's quite possible can i forget the enlightenment i can forget everything that i've learned it's quite possible so the enlightenment also may go away no no because the enlightenment does not depend on the mind all of this we are doing with the help of the mind what will it do from an advaithic perspective all our efforts will remove the ignorance in the mind knowledge will be generated in the mind by all our efforts that enlightenment breakthrough will be generated by all our efforts definitely in the mind and it will remove the ignorance in the mind and will reveal our always the pre-existing existence consciousness place that awareness is always there once that is revealed there's no way you can be deluded again no way there's no effort that you have to put forth to maintain that also it it's self-maintaining in fact the tibetan buddhists say that we put forth a lot of effort into maintaining this illusion that we are pouring energy all the time into maintaining this house of maya that we don't call it house of maya we call it this they call it uh energetic projections energetic arisings so energetic arising in awareness is what are these all our thoughts feelings ideas our constructs about the world our depressions our obsessions our likes our dislikes our hatreds our projects we're all energetic awareness arisings they're nothing but your consciousness so you keep dissolving them keep dissolving them and you'll each in each case you will see that you'll get that realization ahamra mahasami so this is called brahma yoga yoktatma and what will happen sukham akshayam ashnuthi this one enjoys is having a party the enlightened person and an endless party suka makshayam is the joy of vish the pleasure of vishayas you taste something good you touch something pleasurable you see something which is pleasing smell something or think of something in your mind which is pleasurable it could be something as gross as eating a cookie or as subtle as enjoying art in the metropolitan museum all these are good but they are all dependent on external things this person has the very experience of one's own infinitude infinitude as awareness existence unlimited awareness existence this is the source of joy when that money yet attains to or realizes or manifests the joy which is in the atman imagine the peace of this person the bunch of she says why is the enlightened person so much at peace so so happy he says that means the person clearly realizes i have known what is to be known in human life i have realized god i am i have realized brahman i have achieved what has to be achieved in human life enlightenment moksha i've achieved it and i have got attained practice what is to be what can be really attained in this world i have attained this because of these reasons one one imagine the peace of such a person somebody asked won't that person be bored no won't be bored who is bored who has endless projects for fulfillment in the world and is trying to fulfill them and then finds an absence of any such project for the time being and feels bored something to do some pleasure to enjoy some job to be done then i'm feeling happy nothing there then i feel bored but if you feel your own infinitude all the time shining forth inside when you open your eyes the same infiniti outside it wonderful variety completely at peace forever what could bore you excitement and boredom are in the mind not in you is the joy of sense contact the pleasure one gets in sense enjoyment sriram krsna said much higher much greater much more stable much purer is bhajananda the joy of spiritual practice the joy of devotional music and kitten the joy of of prayer the joy of of crying for god one of the greatest joys in the world the joy of crying for god tulsida says that you who shed tears the tears one drop of tears shed for rama is more pleasurable than all the pleasures of the world so the joy of prayer the joy of devotion for god the joy of meditation the joy of vedantic inquiry self-inquiry as i begin to realize what i am not and what i am all of these joys these are all the joy of spiritual practice the spiritual inquiry it's very it's wonderful the spiritual seeker seeks to replace vishayananda with bhajananda the worldly pleasure with spiritual joy but brahmananda the joy of brahman and ananda itself that's again something different that's not the same as bajan once you realize your true nature you see that's an entirely different thing again brahmaranda and that this bhajananda and down to the grossest worldly joy they're all manifestation shankaracharya you say they're like foam a little bit of foam from the or spray from the entire ocean of joy which you are all the joys and pleasures of the world like a little bit of spray from the ocean of joy which you are only thing is it's it's there behind us we're looking out there we see little drops coming here and there and we chase that bengali song that they are sitting on the uh shores of uh immortal bliss there's sitting on the shore of the ocean of nectar ocean of nectar and they die of thirst why are they dying of thirst they are not looking at the ocean they are looking at the sand the sandy beach and they're trying to satisfy their thirst with the sand it just keeps on increasing and then the prayer at the end of the song very beautiful he says i pray to you oh most gracious even if they do not want it even if they don't understand even if they do not want it you give them what they need you my lord give them what they need even if they don't want it so buy her spashwa lot can be discussed about this the whole of the whole of taitheri upanishad brahmananda there's one whole section it is called anandam imamsa a calculation an analysis of bliss what is worldly bliss how does one get worldly bliss what is otherworldly bliss what is spiritual practice the bliss of spiritual practice and what is the ultimate bliss of brahman bisharananda bhajananda and there's a calculation how much happiness can we get in this world wonderful section i hope we can do it someday i mentioned it occasionally if you look if you google it in search of bliss i've just sort of touched upon it in one or two talks so this is that is actually what this verse is referring to but we have run out of time today this is a takeaway enlightened person enjoys endless place oh no [Music] can provide tremendous joy and please it does yes because these are people who live on the shore of that ocean of bliss so they can scatter a little bit upon us there's no doubt highly advanced spiritual people if you go near them the first thing is upliftment purity of mind a sense of being of coolness of for the first time being calmed from the the heat of samsara and joy and sort of unforgettable joy [Music] the people who you know in remedy senses about sri ramakrishna says it's 30 years since sudama krishna passed away 40 years since krishna passed away but i lived with the memory of those few days i lived with them after a few days with sri ramakrishna i live with the memory of that smile i bring to my memory and the smile this the smile of of a person who is seeing god on the face of that person the most valuable thing in this universe