Video 62

62. Bhagavad Gita I Chapter 5 Verses 5-6 I Swami Sarvapriyananda

[Music] guru so in the bhagavad-gita fifth chapter we just did the fourth verse sankhya yoga prathak bala those who are childish are foolish they say sankhya and yoga are separate and different and two different things napandita not the wise ones wise ones don't consider that these two are different if you follow one hold on to one you will get the result which is the goal of both of them now what is being talked about here there are we saw we've already seen this there are two levels of meaning here one is the straightforward one where if you interpret yoga as karma yoga and sankhya is ghana yoga and therefore to say that sankhya yo karma yoga and gyana yoga are two different projects they're not two different projects they're two different stages of the same path it's like if you want to fly to california or somewhere like that you need to take a cab from the vedanta society to laguardia and then take a plane from laguardia to california and it is childish to say that the two are different that they have different goals or purposes you hold on to each one when the time comes and you'll get the result of both the result of both is that you get to go to california wherever you want to go that's the straightforward thing practice karma yoga that gives you purity of mind and meditation which gives you concentration of mind with the prepared mind with the character formed one can engage in vedantic inquiry which gives us enlightenment so that's a straightforward thing and we have heard this over and over again in the second chapter the third chapter and the fourth chapter but a new there's a new wrinkle here what makes it interesting is uh arjuna on shankaracharya's interpretation arjuna is asking it's not asking that old question he's asking that i understand that there is no choice as far as spiritual practice is concerned all the yogas have to be practiced whether it is work or whether it is meditation or philosophical inquiry self-inquiry they all have to be gone through but what i'm asking is my choice of the way i live do i continue as a householder as a man in the world doing the things which i'm doing right now and yes i understand you have told me how i can spiritualize all of this i'll understand all of that but there is a choice it seems to me that i can give all this up and become a monk uh my whole way of life can change remember at that time already monasticism was widespread even by the time of the buddha you see that there were monks of various types in indian society at that time and it was understood that if one wanted to be a specialist in spirituality a you know like a one-pointed dedicated spiritual seeker at some point one would give up everything else and you know throw oneself entirely into spiritual practice and the monastic life was designed for that kind of a project so arjuna is asking again on shankaracharya's interpretation arjuna is asking here so do i do this which i'm doing right now and i understand how it can be spiritualized you have told me karma yoga but or i can give up householder life and become a monk a formal monk in which case there'd be a big difference then i would not be living this kind of life i would not be fighting this war um i may be you know i might be in the mountains i might be begging for my food and meditating all day long things like that i might be doing an entire entirely different kind of life i will lead so aren't they two two different things that's why um here if you interpret sankhya as the life of the monk and yoga as the life of a spiritual seeker in householder life converting all activities into karma yoga then this sloka this verse takes on a different meaning he's asking so so krishna is saying that no the two are not different people think they have two different goals maybe the householder's goal is a worldly goal and the sannyasi is gold monks gold is a spiritual goal but no one can be a spiritual seeker it does not matter what your external circumstances are one can be a spiritual seeker he says a come up sincerely following any one path one reaches the common goal of both paths so here he's not talking about karma yoga gyani yoga karma yoga again they have to be undergone whether you are a monk or you're a householder rituals and actions there's so many secular and sacred actions which you have to perform when you are in the householder life but equally so in a monastic life also there's a different kind of actions but still actions have to be undergone in monastic life and you have to come to vedanta you have to come to the spiritual this this self-enquiry whether you are in uh householder life or you are in monastic life so that is sri krishna's answer to arjuna's question and it's an important question people do want do think when you're a spiritual seeker this question does come that should i formally become a monk should i become monk like everybody has to become monk like ultimately if you're a spiritual seeker you become inevitable you become some kind of an ascetic that your external worldly engagements dwindle automatically i think they dwindle anyway with maturity in life but if you are consciously seeking enlightenment that should happen now verse number five same theme continues verse number five yatsangke foreign that status which is attained by men of knowledge is also attained by men of selfless action he sees truly who sees the way of knowledge and that of selfless action as one again one must be able to interpret it at the two levels of meaning only one level where you are interpreting this as gyana yoga and karma yoga so if you interpret as the meaning of the verse is what guyana yoga ultim gives you that enlightenment and moksha karma yoga also will give you that through ghana yoga that is the standard advaithic approach karma yoga will purify your mind and then through gyani yoga the way of knowledge you will get enlightenment comes on kimchi yoga so it is one path the cab you take from the ashram and the plane you take from the airport they are all part of the same path you are taking a yoga and karma yoga are part of the same path the one who sees this that person truly understands the secret of spiritual practice or the second level of meaning householder or monk that's the second level of meaning then what the monks attain that the householders also householder means what kind of householder spiritual seeker look one thing is there a monk is by definition a spiritual seeker otherwise one would not become a monk i mean any other purpose for becoming a monk would be an insincere thing so anybody who seriously wants to take up to formal monastic life is obviously has to be a spiritual seeker there's no other purpose for becoming a monk the the there is a second the purpose of becoming a householder one may want worldly success and pleasure and you know just lead a typical worldly life and that's also the path of a household and that's also sanctioned you see that's an interesting thing religion sanctions it every religion has to agree that ultimate enlightenment is an ultimate purpose it may not be the immediate purpose of most people so if immediately your purpose is not ultimate enlightenment will religion abandon will you have nothing to do with religion of course not the vast masses of people in every religion and every society in the world they are religious in the sense of religious householder so the thousands of people who queue up in lines before the hindu temples or who are praying in the mosques or attend thousands mega church you know sunday service mega church thousands of people so what are they they are neither of these two classes what is being mentioned here spiritual seeker who has become a formal who has formally become a monk and spiritual seeker who remains in the householder life these are two categories who are not part of the conventional run of religious people so all those who are here you have to be uh that this second category of persons who are maybe you're in worldly life but they're all spiritual seekers otherwise there's no point in studying the gita as such if you interpret in that way then in that case monastic life and spiritual life in the world both of them lead to the same goal the one who sees this truly sees this question has to be clarified because it's not only in arjuna's time krishna's time even till today the moment anybody i've seen a young person become interested in spiritual life the parents start you know either teasing them or seriously becoming worried are you going to become a monk are you going to become a nun or something like that uh you know so the immediately the thought is that if you're seriously interested in spiritual life you're going to become a sannyasi not necessarily one may remain in in householder life but be a serious spiritual seeker so in house soldiers we're talking about two kinds of householders so two kinds of people in the world one is people like those who are here they are already seekers of spiritual life they are seekers their goal is enlightenment god realization whatever you call it moksha salvation nirvana which is the highest goal in every religion so that's that's the goal you have made up your mind that's the goal there is another category of householders uh who are also religious but they are not specifically they're not seeking uh moksha god realization they're not seeking that just seeking a good life in this world and hopefully after that we'll go to heaven and there may be another category of householders lower than that you know that who are not at all interested in any kind of religion not moksha not um your worldly kind of religion also nothing we just don't are not interested just committed materialist this life and this life alone so that is also possible this category four categories i have mentioned at different uh times earlier so this is there are four ways of classifying people in this spiritual scale so the the categories are palmer instinctive life an animalistic instinctive life then dharmika vishai worldly person but religious then sadaka spiritual speaker and then siddha the perfected one enlightened one four categories and the names speak for themselves the palmer means instinctive kind of life no a particular interest in higher life spirituality philosophy nothing of that sort even the worldly kind of belief i will do a little ritual or pray to god god will help me that belief is also not there just instinctively a pursuit of artha and karma of pleasure and you know success in the world that's it and you see a lot of such people you see a lot of such people and they're of course at every level they're gradations in this category there may be gradation from a complete let us say you know a drug addict who is just living for the next dose of the drug and that's it so a complete failure in life and maybe broken down and alcoholic or drug addict or something like that that's the only point a very instinctive kind of life just living from one high to another high and like that or in this life itself in this category itself palmer instinctive you might see a pretty sophisticated person you know materialist who is interested in who may be uh interested in the arts and interested in in creating a business empire and doing quite well you know in the world pretty successful and happy in the world but they're all in that same category one broad range one thing that characterizes them is no interest in religion spirituality belief in god nothing no transcendent part there's nothing transcendent to their life that's something they may even go out of their way to deny that such a thing is there it is sometimes necessary if you want to live such a life an intelligent person will feel like denying the reality of religion and spirituality otherwise an intelligent person cannot live such a life then the next level why would i say next level why not just this the point is at this level what what happens is the law of karma operates and this such persons they pile up so much bad karma that there is suffering in this life there's so much suffering they begin to understand it's not working i need something higher than this something there must be something better or maybe they don't they don't have too much bad karma they may do a lot of good also so they are generally good karma but the result of that good karma is that this realization will dawn on them is this all of life isn't there anything higher somehow or the other by the very grace of god often through suffering often through lack of fulfillment they come to a belief in god such a feeling comes that god exists it may not happen in one lifetime it might take another multiple lifetimes so the next level is where the goal is still at time karma the goal is still worldly prosperity the goal is still pleasure in the world success in the world and dharma dharma in a strictly restricted vedic sense which gives you enough merit to go to heaven after death which is a continuation of this worldly life you're having a party what do you say having a blast having a blast in this world and i want to continue having a blast in heaven so continuous this thing will continue i will get enough good karma so dharma takama is the goal of the second category second category is a higher category why are they a higher category because they have a belief in something transcendent but that belief in something transcendent also helps them to lead a worldly life the difference between the first category and the second category palmer and vishai dharmika vishay is that the palmer is instinctive is brutal is troublesome to oneself and to others the dharmika vishai is generally an ethical person tries to be a good person tries to be a decent person has some belief in the transcendent just that my belief in god will help me in this worldly life they'll lead a more sustainable worldly life let's put it this way in now modern ecological terms a more sustainable life second level first level not sustainable they will exploit everything to get maximum you know ring orange drive for last drop in this very life right now that philosophy what yolo you live only once that philosophy first level second level is sustainable what will be good for me in my old age what will be good for children what kind of community i want to live what what culture and knowledge should i pass on to the children what kind of society i want to build all these things they think about and i need the blessings of god for all of that so this is with dharmika vishwa second level they are still pursuing urtan karma but now one new thing has been introduced dharma ethics religion morality that has been introduced so these are basically these people second level they are the backbone of every society civilization cannot exist without them they are the ones who keep temples and churches and all alive they are the ones who want to transmit values to community and to next generation so on then comes the third level the third level is sadhaka sadhaka means spiritual seeker spiritual practitioner now the goal is not dharmathakama the goal now is moksha spiritual liberation god realization what about dharma ethics and morality earlier dharma was to have a sustainable life in this world and to give me heaven after death now dharma is what is called nishkama dharma dharma is performed moral ethical life is performed without any worldly goals it has a preparation for spiritual life dharma will prepare me for higher spiritual life without a moral and ethical foundation i cannot be a yogi i cannot be a devotee a bhakta i cannot be a gyani therefore i have a moral and ethical life without that i cannot become spiritual my spiritual life will be injured so they are called sadhakas what do they want they want moksha below them previous level dharmika vishai a a religious householder or a religious worldly person what do they want dharma takarama bhartan pleasure and success but on the basis of morality within the limits of morality and religion and be before that is the instinctive life pleasure and success that's it as long as the police or the irs don't catch you so that kind of that is the first that is the primitive level that the primal or instinctive level palmer then is the religious householder then is the spiritual practitioner that one is and that every level you can even immediately see there is a whole spectrum there will be a whole range of people in that level and then finally these are the people the spiritual seekers who become siddha who are enlightened what do they want they they don't want any of this they don't want dharma takama maksha shankaracharya sings i am of the nature of consciousness and bliss i am shiva i am shiva if you have realized that what more do you want nothing they're perfectly ordered even spiritual enlightenment you don't want because you've got it already so this is the range now why am i saying this both of these kinds of people the one who becomes a monk the one who remains as a spiritual householder both belong to which category in this four the third one sadhaka both of them belong to the third one sadaka spiritual seeker spiritual practitioner and again whole range will be there there will be people at the bottom of that category where who are just moving from worldly good ethical worldly people to becoming committed spiritual practitioners there are people who are already committed spiritual practitioners for many many years and so on some of them might want to become monks others might want to remain as householders and krishna is talking about that now we go to what he just said is these people you're a spiritual seeker that's the most important thing whether you remain as a householder you remain as a prince and do your duty fight this battle make it into karma yoga or if you give up a monk you give up everything and become a monk then in both cases you will reach the same goal if you as he says holding on to one sincerely somebody pointed out i think krishnan pointed out after last class that is these are exactly sriram krishna's words it does not matter which path you take up but you have to hold on to one sincerely so you see the two things which may be slightly contradictory first of all it does not matter the path does not matter if you stop there then you will be like um i am spiritual but not religious i am spiritual i don't bother about any religion or any kind of thing then sudama krishna immediately he modifies his uh first statement he says you have to hold on to one bad the path does not matter yet it does matter very much you have to hold on to one sincerely come up hit us you have to hold on to one sincerely all right then number six now he'll go further and in number six he will say that you know one more thing i've got to add here oh arjuna both are true it is true being a becoming a monk can be remaining a spiritual householder both will take you to moksha and both we are both are good but actually remaining as a householder and spiritual seeker in householder life is actually little better he's going to say no number six and there's a reason for that sannyasas [Music] important warning i don't know how many of it to how many of you it applies but i have met people who because i'm a monk and they listen to talks on youtube and all there are a small group of people who have actually sincerely they want to be give up and become monks who are householders already and they they're either retired or for some reason or the other they want to so they ask for advice here is the advice krishna is giving directly he's telling this what does he say but renunciation of action or mighty armed one is difficult to attain without performance of selfless action the sage devoted to selfless action attains brahman quickly so without karma yoga without spiritually preparing yourself first the life of a dedicated monk is very difficult it's very difficult to be a monk yoga yoga muni just the opposite yoga yakta muni the muni the sage who has been purified by you know the ethical moral practices and karma yoga very fast very easily very quickly soon so here is the point krishna is delicately putting this he has an ulterior motive also he wants arjuna to stay and fight the battle so it is not enough to say both are equally good then arjuna will say fine i will become a monk goodbye and tata you fight the battle drop me off at the nearest ashram you know krishna is the chariot it's idiot here krishna says no no no wait um without specific preparations uh the life of a dedicated monk is is very difficult it is very difficult to actually follow seriously so i'm using my words carefully here what happens is that we do not know how much we depend on many things which are available in the world once one becomes a spiritual seeker like all what arjuna has become and all of us are here who have become spiritual seekers the monastic life at one stage it looks attractive why bother with family and money and house and responsibilities i understand it is all karma yoga but why do that why not simply go to an ashram or just stay by oneself so it seems attractive but it seems attractive only because you have not tried it i have seen so many of people we have you know we left everything then come to the ashraf and then i have myself done it leave the ashram and go into a mountain and stay by stay there by by yourself if the mind is not prepared by what do you mean by preparation of mine again and again you say prepare the mind prepare the mind what is the preparation of mind the mind has to be purified through karma yoga and it has to be concentrated through raja yoga karma and upasana this full course has to be gone through otherwise what will happen is suppose one becomes monk and now you're there in the mountains wonderful at the very beginning it will seem spectacular you know fifteen thousand feet peaks and twenty thousand feet peaks and it's cool and uh in summer at least it's not too uncomfortable and there is there are waterfalls and there are four pine forests and you're all alone and all you need is one hour a day you have to go out and even nowadays biksha the the our food which is given is easily available at least in summer in the high mountains there are ashrams which will give monks so i used to go you just go there and you said you'll be fit you don't have to cook you don't have to shop for groceries you don't have to cook you don't have to wash the utensils you don't have to store food from and protect it from mice a lot of mice there rats in their mountains everything is done by the people in the ashram and there are you know religious people who give money to these ashrams to feed the monks one hour a day so there's a saying among monks there a monk is an emperor one hour a day you're a fakeer and 23 hours a day you are a bad shy one hour a day means one hour a day you are you are a beggar because you have to beg for food and for 23 hours a day rest of the day you are an emperor because you don't want anything from anybody in the world you're completely free great that sounds great especially if you don't want anything else from the world you want just spiritual practice but very soon what happens is um the spectacular mountains soon seem like piles of rocks and it is cold wind blowing day and night and just water and ice all around and dark forests and nobody to talk to talk to is a big thing you see the all the supports that we have in our life if they're taken away suddenly you you'll very quickly miss them it's just a misdemeanor because not because they are important talking to people having company newspaper cup of tea is not that they are important at all they are not at all important but we have become used to it we have softened we have we have developed these i will not say bad habits but there are habits and if you suddenly deprive the mind of them you will see the mind is like a mischievous child it will protest it will push back and the way the mind pushes back is very interesting suddenly you will find your spiritual practices are not you know you're not interested in them anymore imagine how difficult it is you went there to get 10 12 hours a day you will do japan meditation certainly japan meditation is tasteless everything will become problematic certainly the food in the bhiksha it is so poor and tasteless food at home was much better if i get uh if i can get some groceries and cook i can do a much better job you see how slowly samsara begins to enter talking with people there's nobody to talk to i know for two months nobody literally no human being once in a day you'll go you'll see some human beings otherwise you stay on the other side of the ganga where the pilgrims are not there only monks stay there hour after hour day after day week after week you literally not see a human face and it's a stunning kind of solitude which is very good if you want it thing is we'll immediately say yes we want it we want that peace you think you want it but after some time so there was a monk a brahmacharyan in banaras who grumbled about this is a common case in our ashram big city who grumbled about so much work so swami turian anandaji the disciple of sudama krishna was there in banaras at that time and they said the brahmacharya says i don't like all these hospitals a big hospital all the house hospital work day and night hard work is there i don't like all this i came to meditate and study the sastras and all i want i want solitude so swami thorian said fine give him solitude give him a room he will stay in the room the condition is he has to stay in the room we will send him food yeah the food will be put near his doorstep like being in a cell stay in the cell stay in the room and the brahmacharya agreed fine brahmacharya is a novice he agreed he's good that's what i want of course turianji knew much better after a week seven days seven days quite a lot he asked one of the monks so how is that brahmacari doing they went and saw and they said that oh he's talking to the plant outside his window he's talking to the plant outside his window people start talking to themselves they do that because the human company is not there nowadays of course people are always talking to themselves it is you know because they have lots of headsets and phone and all of that so always they seem to be talking to themselves nowadays it's even worse because we are so connected day and night you'll miss it first thing in the mountains you'll see those connectivity tower is not reachable there's no connection disaster no mobile no internet nothing then what will happen um so there's no human relationship no friends you will begin to miss your enemies also you begin to see how much of an emotional support enemies also provide no news so this becomes a problem if the mind is not purified when the mind is purified the same solitude is wonderful the mind will plunge into thought into meditation of god when the mind is not purified the same solitude will bite you literally these are the words which were told warned senior monk warned me i went with the first flush of enthusiasms i went to the highest possible place the loneliest possible place and little ruined not even a proper hut ruined hurt hut log cable and i stayed there it was another luckily there was another senior monk staying in a cabin log in just opposite mind 80 year old monk who had been staying there for more than 40 years in the mountains so he called me once young monk what are you studying and i've taken only one book my favorite ashtavakra the highest non-dual man he saw and he said okay that's very good then he went inside his hut and he bought out vishnu shastra the thousand names of vishnu which is a very devotional text and he said kobe padilla please read this also both then he said something interesting in hindi he said loneliness will um cubica means it will pierce you like being pierced by a nail or a needle literally loneliness will bite you why the loneliness is there's nothing out no problem outside at all it's all in the mind so if you're not human company you need divine company so the the personal loving relationship you set up with god there i've told this story earlier also of a monk who was a great non-dualist all day long from morning till after until the sun set he would translate the yoga vashishta he would stay in a hut near mine so he would sit outside spectacular scenery towering mountains glaciers running down and he's this monk is sitting and he had a long beard like gandalf in the lord of the rings and he would translate yoga vashishta which is a very non-dualistic text and in the evening is all dark and i could he hear a plain tip voice in the next hut he would uh chant for hours on end narayan narayan in the name of narayana i can still hear the voice he has passed away that monk so you see this combination of gyana and bhakti knowledge and devotion so yeah many many problems are there when suddenly a person is left to oneself without proper preparation mind is still impure desires are in the mind there's a great desire to be free of everything and be alone and meditate on god but the mind that has not been purified so those conditionings the worldly desires are still there in the mind once you are left free without any structure no job to go to no family to take care of um no even household to take care of mind is free what the mind will do is mind will not automatically run to god impure mind will just go back to its own impurities it will dig out problems from the past so these monks have nice stories about this this is a dog a mangy dog who had fleas in its um coat and when it would go in the sun the fleas would bite so it would run into the shade and it would sit down in the shade but in the shade it had a virus in the brain and the virus would start you know like they were in hindi they say like little insect in the brain in its mind it would start biting and maddened by those you know that that pain it would run out into the sun again where the fleas would start biting and thus this is the condition of the impure mind go out into the world problems workplace problem now online workplace problem family problems financial problems social problems news enough to infuriate you depending on your political views one group or the other will make you angry all throughout the day so this is the external fleas which will keep biting you you give it all up and retreat to the mountains and sit in meditation none of them are there but then the internal viruses will awaken then desires frustrations projects once i go back i will lead my life in this way i can tell you from personal experience this is then you start planning a perfect life once you go back to the ashram why are you even thinking of it why not make the best of what you are doing here because your mind is like that so impurity it's not taken care of monastic life will be disastrous will actually become become worse than um householder life very difficult that's why in our ashrams when new brahmacaris come they are immediately put under a strict structure we always have a strict structure in the ashram so strict structure when do you have to get up what do you do after getting up you go and meditate in a group very careful to observe enforce these things one monk i know he was a disciple of swami shivanandaji very rough old monk he's not particularly educated he used to look after the garden in in belurement i saw him in his old age in swami nishtananda which means one whose delight is in in dedication and discipline he was very disciplined in his uh i saw him in his eighties he had difficulty in walking but he would go regularly uh early morning even before the youngsters were in the temple at four o'clock before the temple would open this old monk which would take him 15 20 minutes to walk from his room dragging himself to the temple he would go there he would sit in meditation he would start before all us youngsters and he would be sitting in meditation even when we had gotten up and left he would go to all the temples swami brahmana in the temple vivekananda temple holy mother's temple everywhere he would go to do pranams the whole trip would take him maybe an hour or more because he couldn't walk well very simple but we're very very strict he would scold i also got nice clothings from him so all of us got good scoldings from him um and i remember once he was holding a a brahmacari novice for making a mistake and so the one way of helping a new newcomer would be to tell this monk that he's new he doesn't know he's new and like stop scolding him that he's new he didn't have this dentures you know so his pronunciation would be very cute and bengali new is no tun in you know hindi you say newton nathum and he would say lotun that means new and uh so he was calling a young brahmachary once and this old monk i i was also a brahmacharya i went and told him oh swami he is new and let's say he's new hoping that that would prevent the scolding and swami said i got the blasting then he turned to me glaring and he said how long will he be new quattro how how long is he going to be new so this this dedication he he stayed in a room and there was an extra guest bed in that room so if any visiting monk came so once a young monk came to the monastery visiting from another ashram who was put up with this old monk in the same room and this young monk told me later that i was tired early in the morning when the bell rang for getting up just before four o'clock this old swami was getting ready to go to the temple i thought i would just sit in my bed and meditate you know i was tired i just sit for some time and then i'd take another sneak in another nap later on so i sat in the bed and the old monk he says he's glared at me as if he couldn't believe his eyes such a big temple right there what are you doing sitting in the bed go and he glared at me till i got up and you know dressed and then i went to the temple he stood there with unblinkingly glaring at me why why what is it what are the what is the necessity for all of this is structure then after the meditation you go for chanting all together again then you go for meals it's i don't feel like eating no even if you don't feel like eating we ever told you go and sit there just sit there be with the mugs observe the routines feel that you know follow the structure one monk senior monk told me one of the best advice i got when i came to the monastery the monk told me follow the bell follow the bell so neither more not less from morning till evening till night 26 bells in 24 hours well together belt for meditation to take a bath bed to study build so it's uh it's very rigorous but you just follow it you don't have to do more than that you have to get up at 3 40. some used to get up at 2 30 a.m in the morning so you don't have to do that just do whatever is said by the bell but whatever is the given in the routine some would try to do less avoid then don't do that what happens is once you do this over time our habits change and the mind gets purified and slowly one begins to life like meditation one is happy with the strict routine it becomes a habit so one day when you are left alone to yourself suppose you're staying in the mountains by yourself you will still get up at 3 30 in the morning you'll still sit for meditation at 4 am there's nobody to tell you nobody to ring a bell nobody to yell at you or glare at you it's tilt so this kind of changing of the conditioning this requires some initial practice whether in the monastery or in householder life if now the life of a dedicated spiritual seeker in the householder life is actually easier because of the structure you have certain responsibilities imposed on you you can convert those responsibilities into karma yoga and it is good then what will happen he gives the opposite case suppose the mind is prepared yoga yukta munir brahma nachirena yoga one who has practiced um karma yoga then the conditioning will be changed good habits will replace the bad habits a simple high life will be attractive naturally so you will like it i think i have told you the story of the monk i i saw this terminally ill dying in the hospital in the icu it's difficult to make out whether it's morning or night or evening it's always it's all lit up always inside uh slightly dark but the icu staff the doctors and the nurses on duty would notice that this monk would who's dying in a few days he'll be dead he would get up exactly at 3 40 and he would struggle to sit up in the bed and start doing meditation by four how it is just habit habit of 40 50 years so with the prepared mind yoga yukta then what will happen with the prepared mind meditation will seem attractive devotion the love for god will come naturally not as because the bell has rung now i have to go and sit and sing no that is that is a preliminary thing this is what suramar krishna used to call a fence a fence is necessary around a plant when you plant it a sapling you put a fence around it otherwise the goats and cows will come and eat up but once it grows into a mighty tree salaam krishna says you can you don't need a fence you can tie an elephant to the tree also nothing will happen to it so in the same way the mind has to be purified yoga yokta such a person will enjoy the silence of the mountains i've seen both i've seen in the mountains i have seen both kinds monks who are wiling away their time who cannot take the silence who cannot take the loneliness and they run away from there who have gone crazy mad or the other way who have really used it wonderful people who enjoy the solitude this monk is telling who writes who is to con translate the yoga verses in the morning and that you would sing narayan and narayan in the evening i would go with him once in a while for you know begging for food this monk um so i would see that he was punjabi so they said you know people from punjab would come devotees both sikhs and hindus would come and the children would gather around him because he had this long beard and children found it fascinating and and he was very good with kids he'd laugh and joke so i said to him once so you are very happy you know like all these people are coming to meet you and all but you've been here for 40 years now when in the winter when there's nobody around and the snow it is just snow and ice and howling winds all around and for six months you don't literally see a human face and it's it's it's cold it's really cold there and it's like what is outside is also inside then what do you do and his answer was very interesting he said i am in jail now and then in even greater joy in hindi he said so i am very happy with the company of people and even happier when there is nobody around so they enjoy solitude they can talk to you if you go but you don't go also they are happy not to talk to you for days weeks months they can sit by themselves with eyes open and eyes closed they are at peace the opposite is with eyes closed and eyes open like the dog running into the shade and running into the sunlight not at peace the difference is uh this preliminary practices that's why in vedanta they emphasize so much southern chatushita vivek varakya the sixfold treasures and mumuksutum the intense desire to be free the sixfold disciplines and viveka and vairagya the discernment between the eternal and non-eternal and dispassion for the non-eternal then let me see there's a lot of activity going on in the chat before i go on to the next verse bill is asking here karma yoga cannot take you all the way no remember we are interpreting in a do you remember karma yoga gives you purity of mind uh worship which is a combination of bhakti yoga and and uh raja yoga or dhyana yoga it gives you concentration of mind it's a purified mind and a concentrated mind you come to gyani yoga which is study of vedantas the self-enquiry the self-inquiry part of it which gives you enlightenment so the first the other yogas prepare the mind and self-inquiry gives you enlightenment enlightenment leads to freedom moksha very clear about this karma he insists karma yoga cannot give you by itself just as it is unlikely that you will get to california if you start driving in a cab and then tell you may get to california but it it'll be a very difficult way of it's much better to take a plane so that is the um advaita vedanta structure i'm emphasizing that advaita vedanta structure why because if you see the original verses they don't clearly mention such a structure if you literally see what the verse said let me just literally see verse number four sankhya yoga prathagbala it's only children who say that knowledge and you know like yoga and karma yoga they are different wise people don't say that they are different ekama if you hold on to one sincerely wherever in the temple you will get the result of both it seems a case could be made then in that case isn't krishna saying that by karma yoga if you hold on to karma yoga sincerely you will get the result you can either do ghana yoga or karma yoga and get that result of enlightenment so the structure is not very clear in um what krishna is saying krishna is it seems to have left it deliberately a little vague you might say then why even talk of a structure you have to because if you want to make sense of the whole gita you want to make sense of all the upanishads put it together in one system then you will see the clearly a structure will emerge otherwise you cannot make sense of it if ignorance is the problem the knowledge is the solution what will give you knowledge the way of knowledge that seems to be an easy equation why not the way of action how can the way of action give you knowledge enquiry leads to knowledge self inquiry leads to self-knowledge and therefore way of knowledge will give you self-knowledge how can actions no matter how good lead to self-knowledge so that kind of question will come up and so you in advaita vedanta you have a clear structure but notice the original verses gita and upanishad are vague enough or are open-ended enough that you can have different structures and that's why other schools of vedanta come in gives you a different structure puts bhakti in there at the top so yes there's no straight answer to your question but the answer is if you're talking from an advaithic perspective if you ask a question can karma yoga not take you all the way advaita will say very clear answer no it cannot there if you press the question that but the verse does not say so exactly there are other verses in the bhagavad gita krishna says to arjuna janaka and others in other great kings and princes they have reached perfection by work karmanai was by work alone by activity alone there are people like janaka and others who have reached perfection now what does shankaracharya do there he says perfection there means perfect purity of mind and then with perfect purity of mind you come to vedanta class and that will give you enlightenment you can do that if you want the original verses however are much more open-ended that way you can fit different structures you need a structure otherwise questions will remain what is the nature of the problem what is the solution what are we doing here so bill i mean bill conrad he wrote an email to me after last wednesday's class by the vedantists our class and his email i'll read it talk to you it's interesting i was thinking of discussing it in the next vidantsar class maybe i'll do that also but the question he asks me is is so bill is asking while listening to today's lecture it's wednesday the question occurred to me in what way do these intellectual arguments help me in my spiritual life do they make my mind better able to meditate or do they only help me to think more clearly please answer this question in the next class as i am sure i am not the only one who has thought this respectfully yours bill so yes why is this question coming up at all is because bill has a different structure in his mind so when you talk about the buddhist concept of the self and the the prabhakara mimamsa concept of the self this school and that school all that seems superfluous to him the clue is in the next question he asks will it make me help me to meditate better so if you interrogate bill so your uh so what is your idea of spiritual life what is your uh what is it that you are trying to achieve in spiritual life he will say something like by meditation i will realize god something like that so he has a structure the problem then is the restlessness of the mind and the solution is the calmness serenity of the mind one pointedness of mind then the method is meditation that's a structure which i can infer from his questions in that structure studying vedanta sarah and all the different schools of philosophy seems superfluous maybe it will just help him to think in a little different way but then thinking better even science can do that help you to think more logically no vedanta sara what we did in the wednesday class they have a very clear structure only if you accept that structure then all of that all of the rest makes sense so everywhere there is a structure in the path of ghana what is the problem what is the solution the problem is ignorance ignorance of the reality which is already there solution is knowledge of the reality then the sadhana or the practice will begin yoga no matter very clear it will be an investigation into who am i then what the buddhists thought of it what the imam sacras thought of it all of that will be pertinent whereas in the path of meditation the problem is not ignorance as such the problem is the restlessness of the mind there is ignorance and the knowledge is required for that in patanjali yoga sutra that is there but the prime problem is the restlessness of the mind so the method will be to calm down the mind and the knowledge will come by itself so the emphasis has to be on calming down the mind but that's the yogic approach the devotee will come and say tell you all this is super superfluous too difficult and probably so are probably unnecessary god exists the problem is you don't have faith in god have faith in god surrender to god love and worship and adore god your problem will be solved whatever is necessary god will do for you perfectly all right but that's a different structure so these structures are important you have even if you say that i don't want these structures i'm just going to do what my guru told you that's a structure and if you have been initiated in the ramakrishna vivekananda tradition then the guru was given your mantra who taught you how to meditate surely would have told you that bhakti is important study vedantic study is important service is important all of those things are it's part of our tradition no guru will tell you only you have to repeat the mantra and that's it it's finished no dimitri so he's struck with the core question is the self self aware without the mind or any object this question has to be broken down carefully not pertinent here today but it's it's a fundamental question what do you mean by self aware what we normally mean by self-aware is am i thinking about myself in that sense we are not self-aware most of the time so dimitri you have to think about this what exactly self-awareness one kind of self-awareness would be the reflexive awareness of oneself introspection i'm aware of my own mental states i'm aware of my own existence consciously deliberately looking inwards that we don't do all the time we often don't do it uh we sometimes do it if you are fully engaged in some activity maybe you are a neurosurgeon performing as an operation or you're playing tennis and you're completely absorbed in it exactly i say is in flow state the mind is so absorbed in it that you'd lose awareness of the self that i am somebody doing a particular action we are it often happens to us a child absorbed in play not even aware of one's own individual self-existence is that what you mean by self-awareness or just awareness bear awareness so yes the the reason why i was asking this question is that it seems like there is a role of a mind in the the whole game of uh enlightenment and the mind is essentially almost like uh like because i am perceiving my thoughts the objects etc hence i am aware so but if there is no mind right no objects right like it's very difficult to express it in words but essentially is this the the supreme self like i understand it's existence it's consciousness and it's bliss existence is clear bliss is clear consciousness without any objects what does that mean so that that's where you have to distinguish consciousness from consciousness of something in philosophy modern philosophy it is called intentional consciousness intentional means not about having an intention it's about being about something else so generally consciousness is about thoughts are about something now the question being asked in vedanta is if you drop the something is awareness still there it's a simple way of looking at it i am aware when i'm looking at you suppose i don't see you and i shut down my i shut down my eyes am i still there i would say yes take that little further i shut down all my sense organs am i still there i would say yes then my thoughts the verbally formed thoughts which i am having suppose i shut doors down also am i still there well probably i'm still there suppose i shut down all kinds of memories and ideas and even the sense of ego would i still be there if you continue that that the trajectory that you have started if you can clearly see the difference between consciousness and all of these functions you have to admit that consciousness is still there but it's just not doing anything there's nothing going on there but this that awareness is probably there um philosopher the kind of which we are talking about last time and we'll talk next time sunivada the nagarjunian kind of philosopher would take what you have said and immediately prove the emptiness of both both concepts self and mind you are asking with when the only when the mind is active do we have a sense of ourselves as conscious beings i'll repeat that mind is thinking something then only we are aware of not only the mind but immediately reflexively of ourselves as conscious beings aware of the mind we may verbalize it we may not verbalize it we may notice it we may not notice it but we become subjects and there is an object immediately nagarjuna will say they're mutually dependent they rise and fall together if this is that is if that is this is and then they are both empty they are not independently real of each other that is the very definition of sunnata according to nagarjuna and they are both empty consciousness is independent and nature from the grossest physical nature to the subtlest part that is the mind is an independent entity and when they interact you have conscious experience but when they don't interact consciousness remains by itself without any conscious experience and external nature also remains by itself gives no conscious experience to that subject but other subjects keep on interacting with it it's a pretty realistic way of looking at the world actually advaita vedanta takes that one step further imagine then if that external universe up to the mind when nothing but the product of consciousness itself or the appearance of consciousness itself so the mind is not a second apart from consciousness on which it is depending to sort of bootstrap itself it is one of the glories of consciousness itself which it uses let us say to generate the subject object experience but without it also without subject object experience the same consciousness continues which we have in deep sleep or samadhi yeah we just leave it right there let me go through the other questions pradeepos asks is karma yoga unnecessary part of the path to realization yes someone living close to the airport may not need a cap you're right there would be some people who are highly qualified um at some point the very fact that by karma yoga one gets purity of mind then it means that there are some people who have purity maybe very few it is true there are people who have attained the necessary purity of mind folks especially monastics are they luckily enough to have holy company from an early age supported by inborn good samskaras may be able to board the ghana yoga plain writer they know a few might be like tota puri for example so today did not have much sympathy for other people you know but as swami sardanji mentions in his biography of sudama krishna chodrapuri did not realize it's by the grace of the divine mother he was born with such good samskaras from the childhood he found holy company he had such good such a good mind and such a good health to take that kind of a rigorous life um a life of austerity and meditation and study and so he straight away enters into a perfect monastic kind of life it's true but monastic organizations not just vedantic all monastic organizations hindu buddhist christian they have this wisdom with them that they know that those who are coming to monastic life many of them will not be fully prepared for monastic life so a kind of structure is very much necessary which will replace the structure of householder life that's why ashram work ashrams put on a very strict structure once you enter the monastic life there even the rules of sannyasa are for whom those who have become monks to become enlightened not already enlightened so become monks to become enlightened have if they already have the qualifications that life will be easy for them if they don't have the qualifications not yet but they already become a monk then they'll have to struggle with those practices with those disciplines with that structure till they attain the necessary qualification i know even till today it's a fact swami bhutah sanji also said that when he wanted to go away to the mountains and meditate by himself leaving the ashram swami shivanandaji told him very good you will go but prepare yourself first prepare yourself first means what prepare yourself in the ashram first intensely austere life speaking less and less or not not interacting people keeping your mind on god regardless of whatever is happening in the world outside when the mind is prepared like that and this focused inward introverted go to an environment like the himalayas or somewhere or in narmada or one of those holy places you can live very well we were also told that i was myself told by a wise monk whenever the first time i left i was like i'm going and i'm not going to come back so why is old monk uh he said oh don't say things like that you go and he was the one who was my head in the ashram so he had the authority to say yes or no so he said you go for two months and then at the end of two months if you think that more is good for you you can stay like that in the mountains uh and you're really progressing spiritually write to me i'll give you two more months but if you feel be honest if you feel that that's it now it's becoming very humdrum and i'm not making spiritual progress then come back to the ashram and work here stay in the ashram and stay with us and work once in a while you can go there so that's a much wiser course for more average people like us there might be a person who might go holy mother said to some of the monks that you know naren and rakhal vivekananda brahmananda they don't need these monasteries and ashrams they have started it for you young boys who are coming they are people who can remain absorbed in samadhi so they don't they don't need ashrams and monasteries and even the work all this is good for you that's why you started it was asking in the path of gyana can the goal be moksha since we are liberated isn't the goal removing ignorance yes that is moksha in the path of ghana you're correct the precise goal in the path of guyana is generating knowledge that we are brahmana and so moksha is ever there that's why in vedanta they say prabtasya prakti what you already have you get that then you say but you remove ignorance right but ignorance was also never really there so what you what was never there is removed and what was always there is is attained this is crazy from um regarding the four classifications of people they're individuals who live ethical materialistic lives but are completely atheistic agnostic they can sometimes make a jump to the sadhaka level due to suffering true true encouraged by the fact that advaith is more friendly than conventional religion agnostics atheist that is true many people have seen coming to advaita who are otherwise not interested in conventional religion but they make the jump but they are they were generally good people one it's difficult to make a jump from being an absolute villain and then becoming a buddha straight away from a scam or a ponzi scheme and then become a buddha something like that no and it's difficult there are a few examples by the very great grace of you know guru or the grace of god someone a robber becomes or decoy it becomes a spiritual seeker a few examples are there and there are sardicas who are unethical and even those who are atheists so sam harris is an atheist yes i don't know about sam harris but literally it is in all buddhists in that sense would be atheistic theistic means believing in a personal god so buddhist or a jain for example is atheistic in the sense that they don't believe in a personal god but they are definitely spiritual seekers gabriel says sam harry seems to be very concerned with ethics yes certainly rick says true these categories can be mixed every which way yes and to some extent the the categories are not airtight are you saying samus is unethical no samurais is not unethical nirjari says can one not be just a sadhaka but also have a clear goal of moksha can one not just be a sadaka but not have a clear goal of moksha yes one can be one can be completely devoted to god and not particularly concerned with the theological aspects of what exactly is moksha i just love god and that's why no one can be like that all right is uh gita they will be asking is lord krishna talking about southern jakista here without preparation the mind is difficult to control it will come next southern chatushra is being talked about actually ramya says swamiji pranam with today's class i think we have begun to appreciate the importance of athman or mokshatham yes welfare of the world and one's own liberation the two are not two separate goals it's it's actually the same philosophy it's good that you have noticed it the same philosophy sankhya and yoga sannyasa and grace in order in another way the welfare of the world and one spiritual enlightenment they are not separate things like jesus says that love the lord thy god with all thy heart and all thy might that's one but also love thy neighbor so two two things are always given there okay let us stop here [Music] hurry [Music] be