Video 9

Ask Swami with Swami Sarvapriyananda | Nov 7th, 2021

[Music] [Music] [Music] lead us from the unreal to the real lead us from darkness unto light lead us from death to immortality om peace peace peace good morning and namaste everybody today the brave few who have gathered here are to be congratulated because uh this is probably one of the greatest biggest busiest events of um new york the new york marathon and it's right here it's starting right here so all the roads are blocked i'm sure some of you at least had a hard time getting here i went out in the morning i asked the cops at both ends and they said we'll let people in if they walk in but no um cars i told them that there's this temple here on 34 west so you let people in for coming to the temple and they say yeah we can do that and um the new york marathon i don't know how many of you know this but this event is being sponsored by an indian company the tcs tata consultancy services and it has an interesting connection with this place you know how swami vivekananda who founded the vedanta society of new york when he when he came to the united states on the ship he met tata jamshed and who was on his way to the united states also and this was before swami vivekananda was so well known but tata obviously found him to be an intriguing and remarkable young monk so he engaged him in conversation and swami vivekantha told him that india needs not only business and industry but also research in fundamental science imagine a monk in those days late 19th century telling a businessman that we need scientists years later tata wrote to swami vivekananda who by the time was very well known was in bellurmart he wrote that you remember we met on the ship and you told me about starting an institute for research in fundamental science in india and i'm really taken by that idea and i'm going to start this institute and i cannot think of anybody who would be more fit to be a director of this institute than yourself and so i'm awake and of course he couldn't accept that but that letter is still there and that institute was eventually set up after tata's death actually it's the well-known indian institute of science in uh bangalore i mean any group of indian professionals you meet anywhere one or two would have studied there i don't know if there's anybody in this uh there is somebody there yes yes yes so you see inevitably there'll be somebody who has studied there or knows somebody who studied there so they set it up and i was just thinking if you look at the the institutes of technology the iits some of them were founded by graduates of the indian institute of science which used to be called the tata institute in those days in bangalore so it seeded the it created the ground for the technological revolution in india all these big institutes came up later on by scientists trained in the industry of science and these iits then later powered what is called india's i.t revolution giving birth to this whole generation of computer scientists computer engineers and companies including tata's own tata consultancy services and that ends up sponsoring the new york marathon here it's a it's completing the circle i think it's very interesting and wonderful to think about it these pioneers start our swami vivekananda more than 100 years ago a vision that they had and you can see how it's coming to fruition not only in india but across the world now what we will do today is we'll take some questions from the internet audience which have been collected and collated by our wonderful team here and also some questions from the live audience present here so i'll first ask diane to read out a question from from the internet audience then i'll ask you get ready with your questions raise your hand i'll call upon you come here and ask your question yes swami the first question is from shuddha kuti who asks swamiji i have a question related to chidawbasa the reflected consciousness and its relationship to pure consciousness does the cheetah bathroom go with the jivatman after its death or upon attaining enlightenment enlightenment does it cease to exist the relationship between reflected consciousness and pure consciousness uh one name we can give to pure consciousness is also sakshi the witness consciousness and these terms are found for example in the text drive which is one of my favorite texts so it's a good question and it's worth analyzing this first of all what are what are these terms what do they mean we are according to advaita vedanta awareness consciousness in sanskrit many words chit chaitanya sakshi we are that now that consciousness is so to say reflected reflected i would give pardon these air quotes but reflected within quotes in the mind and that's what makes the mind feel aware and the awareness that we actually feel right now is called this is called the reflected uh consciousness or reflected awareness right now we all feel aware and that is the reflected awareness and that awareness shines in the mind reveals our thoughts freely feelings perceptions emotions whatever is going on in the mind and also lights up our senses and that's why we feel you know even just seeing hearing smelling tasting all of these feel conscious aware and the body too the body feels aware and that awareness feeling of awareness stops at the skin outside the body we don't feel that i am this awareness outside the body no only at the skin so what is this awareness it is the reflected consciousness the chidabhasa lighting up the mind the senses and the body and this is what actually we we normally experience as awareness but this is not what vedanta is talking about vedanta is talking about pure consciousness which is reflected in the mind and body as reflected consciousness now what is the distinction and does this reflected consciousness cease to exist after death so the distinction is this one good way of understanding is would be the distinction between moonlight and sunlight moonlight and sunlight are they different or are they the same well depends they are the same in one sense once we know a little bit of astronomy we know a little bit of science we know that it is the sunlight reflected from the moon which we see as moonlight which we call moonlight at night so literally it's the same uh for example if the sunlight were not there there wouldn't be any moonlight either the light which is reflected from the moon is belongs to the sun and without the sun there wouldn't be any moonlight so in the same way without pure consciousness there wouldn't be any reflected consciousness either without sakshi there wouldn't be the jiddah bhasa in sanskrit sakshi witness jiddabasha reflected consciousness so without the sakshi there wouldn't be any jira just like without sunlight there wouldn't be any moonlight but there's also a distinction what distinction at night at night we must admit that we are unable to use or benefit from sunlight directly without the moon for example on new moon nights or in the you know depending on the phase of the moon you'll see the moonlight increases and decreases it's the moon light which we use for suppose in a dark you know there's no electricity or anything it's the moonlight which lights up which which we can use to see things at night exactly like that our daily transactions in this world are due to the reflected consciousness without the reflected consciousness we wouldn't be able to do this what we are doing right now also just like the moonlight the phases of the moon increase and decrease the moon like the amount of light reflected similarly the awareness that we feel in the mind is a limited awareness and subject to coming and going changing um i mean when you fall asleep it seems to disappear when you are tired and dull it seems to be don't seem to be as keen as before the quality of the reflected awareness depends on the mind just as the quality of any reflection depends on the reflecting medium you are sick or tired or sleepy and you must you must say that i don't feel as aware as it did when i was alert and after a cup of coffee and so on so that that is the reflected consciousness reflected consciousness just like the moonlight is subject to increasing and decreasing it's subject to coming and going and it is the one which is directly useful to us right so this is the distinction which one am i i am actually the pure consciousness but right now our condition is unless we are able to appreciate what is meant by pure consciousness what is meant by the witness consciousness our condition will be the reflected consciousness the pure consciousness reflected in the mind illumining the mind and in the mind is ignorance about our real nature so what happens is i who am really this pure consciousness but i'm not at all aware of what i am i'm not i don't understand it this understanding is a function of the mind and that understanding is not there in the mind therefore in the mind is the solid unshakable conviction yes i am awareness but i am awareness in the mind which is in the body so i'm a body-mind awareness mix-up a mash-up so to say that's what we think of ourselves even worse we may even relegate the awareness to an unimportant thing you know we may think of ourselves as embodied minds i'm just a mind a person that's what most people think even worse even worse not even reflected awareness not even the mind i am the body i i'm a body with a mind and some kind of awareness so you see where how far we have traversed and at each level you encounter and you take upon yourself terrible problems the moment we identify with the mind reflected consciousness means you have already identified with the mind then every problem of the mind is my problem now ups and downs in the mind depression happiness unhappiness passing feelings they all become mine i am elated i am delighted i am happy i am miserable it goes like this but you are not you see the sunlight has actually nothing to do with the problems on the moon similarly you the witness consciousness you the awareness unlimited awareness you really have nothing to do with one particular mind's [Music] problems ups and downs and worse the body aging of the body i'm growing old disease in the body i am sick not i am the not sick not old changeless clear light of the void pure awareness illumining a mind illuminating a body which is going through these changes of old age and sickness that's a hugely different thing imagine the amount of space it gives you to you know the sense of security it gives you the sense of peace it will give you in the mind itself you see it's security peace all of these are in the mind lack of security peace are also on or in the mind so this is the distinction now he asked couple of questions specific question one question is does it cease after uh this question was does it cease after does it go with the jivatman after its death does it go with the jeevatman after it that's one question and the other one was or upon attaining enlightenment does it cease to exist okay does it go with the jivatman upon its death if you consider the question itself the answer is there the jeevathman the jiva the sentient being what is it actually i just described it earlier you are that limitless consciousness with an apparent limitation of a mind and the reflected consciousness and the body now at death the body dies and this mind with its reflected consciousness that's the one which goes or in technical terms transmigrates goes to other worlds other experiences other bodies other lives you the pure consciousness does not travel because where will it travel it's the one reality that is it's it's the um you know the screen of the movie on which the movie is playing there's a lot of traveling going on in the movie if the screen also decides to travel then the movie will be disturbed it'll be a pretty poor movie then pure consciousness is always the same it doesn't travel when you say that the going and coming of the jivaatman the birth and death and transmigration of the jihad man it is the mind more technically more precisely the sukhma sharira and the karana sharira sukhma sharira subtle causal body causal bodies ignorance itself and the subtle body has if you go to vedantic analysis it will have 17 parts or 19 parts the mind the intellect the memory the ego sense the um the powers of the senses powers of the motor organs the prana the life forces all of that together is the subtle body that's what goes and comes that's what we call colloquially the ghost so that the subtle body that's what goes and comes and has many experiences now you can answer your question does the reflected consciousness travel yes does pure consciousness travel no reflected consciousness travels along with the mind it's just like i give the example of pots in a garden the pots are full of water and one pot maybe develops a crack or a leak and the gardener comes and pours the water out into another pot and discards the broken part now in each part in the water there'll be a little reflected sun the sun shining up in the sky is reflected in the water in each pot a tiny little sun an image a sparkling little image that also has a little power of illumination you know that travels if you pour the water out into another pot that will travel along with the water into the new part so the reflected consciousness travels from that perspective the sentient being if the sentient being had an active memory of past births would have said i was there in that life in that body with those people some people have those experiences and i am here now with these people in this body travels but vedanta says even that's not the reality that's part of the movie does it seize after enlightenment no after enlightenment you know that you are not the reflected consciousness you begin to see did you know what the distinction is it's like this you're looking at your face in a mirror the mirror is like the mind the reflected face is like reflected consciousness in your real face this face is like witness consciousness of pure consciousness at enlightenment what happens is not that the reflected face will disappear you just realize i am not that under some delusion i thought i was this guy no i am here not there in the mirror that's the distinction and that sets you free free from all mirrors and all reflected faces just this knowledge it just sets you free means you realize you are always free so does it seize after enlightenment no you cease to identify with you cease to think that i am this shining consciousness in the mind but it does cease when the body-mind seizes so for example it seizes every night when you fall asleep in deep sleep when the mind is not functioning mind is absorbed into a gyan or the seed of ignorance and deep sleep the there is no active reflected consciousness it's just like the sun reflected in the pot in the water in the pot at night the pot is there the water is there but there's no reflected sun similarly at night when the or when the mind ceases to work the reflected consciousness also disappears and from the perspective of the enlightened one who is not supposed to be born or reborn again does not take on an individual body mind again so there will not be an individual reflected consciousness which you can attribute to the enlightened one but the enlightened one doesn't care the enlightened one knows that i am this infinite consciousness always was am will be good um can you does anybody want to ask a question yes come and tell us your name and ask the question my humble pronouns to swamiji my name is vinod i'm from maywood new jersey i have one question swamiji what is my swadharma what is my swadharma literally my own duty my natural duty because why this question arises again and again in krishna tells arjuna follow your swadharma your your natural duty so to say you're not your natural dharma but what is that i'll give you the traditional answer to that and i'll tell you also it's mostly useless these days but it's good to understand what they meant in those days bhaswa it was very precise and we can learn some lessons from that and maybe try to adapt it to new uh to our times today as i tell you you will also notice it isn't of much use right now in our day and time but we can learn some lessons from it okay so what was the answer what was the idea in krishna's time in ancient times in india swadharma had five components put on your seat belts it's complex but five components it had five parts um i'll name them first and explain them um varnasrama dharma sadhara vishaisha dharma and sadharana dharma so ashram adharma the stage of life the stage of life means traditionally we understood the stage of life as studentship brahmacharya householder life grihastha retired life vanaprastha literally it means the forest dwelling or going to the forest and then um the sannyasa the monastic life and that was actually for everybody these are supposed to be natural to stages in life and there's a great deal of wisdom in them actually um there's a time when we develop ourselves physically mentally equip ourselves so that's the brahmacharya life and there is a certain set of duties which were prescribed which were natural which were thought to be natural to a person who's in school or college that would be a dharma if you are a student or if you are in that that state of life that stage of life and then it was thought natural that you grow up and you take your position in society you marry start a family have a job a career contribute to society build up your life um grista and there was a set of ways of you know what what is right and what is wrong what is proper and improper for agrihastha and then it would naturally progress to you know as children got up and um grew up and and left home and you sort of retired out of your job you would enter a new stage of life where you would withdraw from so much engagement in in in worldly life and begin a more serious quest in in spiritual life and that was the meaning of vana prastha the forest dweller you'd still husband and wife would still be together but they are no longer engaged in family life they were more like spiritual companions and getting ready for the you know soul focus on the spiritual goal of life all throughout all these remember all of these are meant for ultimately enlightenment that was the beautiful idea you see who told you all this that's meant for enlightenment i have it on the authority of shankaracharya himself for example in thai theory upanishad there's a question suppose brahman does not exist suppose there is no ultimate reality suppose we are not brahmana what would be the consequence of that he says one consequence immediately would be that the entire arrangement of society as we have known it the dharma in the stages of life the dharma according to your professions and place in society all of this would be meaningless why meaningless because he says they are all meant he says brahma pratibhatya tamtesham they are all meant for enlightenment for realizing that you are brahmana what a stunning statement and it's not aurobindo in years later he would say that it's not just you know like a formal set up in hindu society which had this idea you have to realize brahman and therefore we have arranged society in this way it seems to be overly formal and strict there's just a paradigm but he says actually life itself is yoga it doesn't have to be ancient india don't have to be hindu in krsna's time wherever you are if you are a sentient being living your life basically knowingly or unknowingly you are on that path you're trying to achieve infinity you're trying to achieve what you truly are seek seek god whatever you call it so varnadharma that was one the second the ashram dharmasari so four astronauts then finally after the that period of preparation even then husband and wife would go their own ways they would become monks sannyasi sanya seems actually formally or informally but their life would be like that only dedicated to god realization the end of their life so that was the uh structure for stages of life ashram the second component was varna varna dharma meant that you know what is your profession and what is your natural makeup what is your position in society so somewhere brahmins um which were suited to education and you know religious duties the priest craft and so on the priestly life and so on the others were khatriyas warriors administrators you know today you would say presidents ceos and so on the third where the the business class the trading class the people who carried on the business of of society itself most people so that would be the wishes and then the they were the laborers the working class the sudras and this was a division based not on stage of life but but on profession and that profession was based on your mental makeup at one time not in krsna's time he clearly says that these are divisions based on guna karma your mental makeup and your activities in society at one time in ancient india they were frozen into the castes the forecasts and innumerable subdivisions of the castes and then that like any frozen static system it led to abuses and power play and privilege and battles between for position and privilege and enormous problems which continue down to this age till today you can see indian society is sort of driven and fractured on these lines but the original idea was this and i have you have it on krishna's own words and that kind of division of castes is uh is sort of natural to him to humanity you find it in every society what you don't find is that frozen ossified system which you find peculiarly in india you know and beautiful argument against this male james mill jon stewart mill's father in the british parliament there was a beautiful argument that um at that time there was a debate on giving rights to women and and of course all the debate was entirely among men in parliament so they were arguing one group was saying absolutely not the place of the woman is at home and not in the field or in the battlefield or in in the place of commerce and business and someone argued that the nature of the lion is to eat meat and the nature of the deer is to eat grass then mill stood up beautiful argument i love this he said if it be true that god has made the line to eat meat and the deer to eat grass then man need not make laws about it what should you do that you should give freedom let them do whatever their if their very nature of the lion is to eat meat and nature of the deer is to eat grass they will do that if there's freedom on top of that if you're making a law the lion should only eat meat and the deer should only eat grass there's mischief involved there there's mischief behind it and of course things did not change immediately but over time it changed anyway the idea was there are certain distinctions in our makeup and certain distinctions in our professions that led to the varnadharma then you have a combination of varnasrama dharma like a matrix put them together are you a student yes are you a brahmana student or akshatriya student or a veggie student then then your duties your dharma will differ accordingly so for example when krishna is speaking to arjuna now put him on the matrix arjuna is what according to uh ashram he's a grihastha a householder and he is a kshatriya a warrior so a warrior householder has a certain set of do's and don'ts a certain set of natural duties that is his swadharma that's the third component one ashram you see how he put it's very elegant and also pretty useless today but it's very elegant um you put it together you get one ashram dharma fourth vishesh vishesh dharma means particular special duties which you take on so arjuna is not only a a householder is not only a warrior but he's also the general in the pandava army for the time being you are the commander of this army i remember myself how i learned this lesson one of the first administrative duties i got in india when i was in the monastery was was a college for training teachers a teacher training college by the way i was awful at it but i was made the head of that they call it the principle the principle of that and i was a very young monk and immature i would i would say the person who preceded me was a householder he was a principal of for 30 years he was very senior gentleman and he handed it over to me a big contrast to this young boy and i said look he made me sit in the chair i still remember that day so now you are the head of this institute and i said look i don't care all this principle business i'm a monk and that's my identity and then he gave me a scolding he said no swami at that time i was a brahmacharya actually he said no maharaja that is not right you're a monk you're settled in your monastic life that's wonderful that's great but on top of that you are the head the captain of this ship and so there are extra responsibilities that you are going to take up because you have assumed the role so don't forget that you can't just say i'm a monk i don't care about all of this and that's true if you see in human resource management for example what's important is the roles people take up if you take up a particular role then you have certain dharma go which goes with that role if you're a manager of a certain department so you have a certain dharma so that's called vishe dharma special unique to that particular post that particular time in life for example so you have a role there once you have accepted it you have to play the role then the last one the last one is sadhara dharma sadhara means general duties as a human being as a civilized person as a good person you have the dharma of being non-violent you have the dharma of having to be having integrity truth he had the dharma of self-control life of self-control actually generally if you break it up it comes out as the ahimsa satya brahmacharya astaya is truth in thought word indeed brahmacharya is literally celibacy but it's it's actually control over all kinds of sensual desires and then um astaya non-stealing upper igra non-acceptance of gifts and there are reasons for all of this but they're all modified according to the other four um you know the components of swadharma all right summing up four five components ashram dharma varnadharma varnasrama dharma vishay shadharma sadhara dharma to some extent all these still apply and you can see the wisdom in all of that and take a look only some things have changed the ideas of family life have changed with changing understanding and breakdown of the marriage system and all of that changing understanding of gender for example in this dna especially here then professions have changed tremendously tremendously peter drucker points out the management guru points out that we have tremendous choice 200 years ago for thousands of years until 100 to 200 years ago you would live where you were born in most cases unless you were an adventurer or a pirate or something like that you would do the job of your parents did only if you were a man for women they always always did family and womanly things and that was for thousands of years you would eat the food that your community ate you would marry into somebody in your community would speak the language that was spoken there you would hardly go a little further than the place you were born in that was the life of the majority of humanity for thousands of years now he says in the last hundred years what has happened and it's accelerating now he says peter drucker we are born in one place educated another place work in another place live and settle down maybe retire in another place you almost inevitably you marry out of your community you eat food and dress in ways that had almost nothing to do with your place or community of origin and the job you change your job so many times in so many different ways they always say the job you are trained for in college that job doesn't exist and what you are trained for in college actually what the training you get becomes obsolete when by the time you leave college so all these things are huge and new that's why to some extent this swadharma thing is you have to think about it yourself but it's important to go with the grain of one's makeup and take decisions oh what does peter drucker say therefore he says therefore the importance of decisions is overwhelming there's a small gap of time window of time in which young people get to make certain decisions about their education about their jobs careers about their partners in life about the choice of lifestyle and so on and it's not infinite each decision will have enormous impact on one limited lifetime so the importance of decision is very very is very very significant now one guideline is swadharma what decision i will take and remember that big picture the whole thing whether you like it or not understand it or not is meant for god realization or enlightenment that is the purpose of human life that could be the pole star depending on which you decide what you are what you're going to what decisions you'll take in every respect okay but it's a good question it's a very practical question thank you can we have the next question yes this is from sagnik roy chowdhury if pure consciousness is the witness sakshi then who is the noah is i the ego the noah how do i understand the difference what is the difference between the noah and the witness another very good question what's the difference between known and witness the philosophical question but it if you're on the path of advaita vedanta this is something that one must grasp early on there is a big difference difference between what the witness and the knower let me introduce the sanskrit terms witness sakshi noah brahmata there are these sanskrit terms brahma means knowledge pramata the knower and pramana the instrument of knowledge pramaya the object of knowledge don't don't get confused in all of that you don't have to deal with all of that but just know noah means pramata and we are all knowers knowers in what sense if you're seeing something hearing smelling tasting something you know inferring in whichever way you gather knowledge you are a knower and we are all knowers now what is the distinction between this and the witness consciousness witness consciousness sakshi use what i just said earlier about the witness consciousness and the reflected consciousness it is the witness consciousness alone which shines upon the mind as as the reflected consciousness and the mind is lit up by this reflected awareness and then the mind thinks and also deploys instruments of knowledge what are the instruments of knowledge the five senses use for seeing hearing smelling tasting touching also other instruments of knowledge anumana which means inference so inference is a big instrument of knowledge which we use for in science for example and in any kind of rational thinking something that you don't actually see you see smoke rising and you infer there must be fire and the fire truck goes there you didn't actually see the fire but you saw the smoke smoke and inferred fire that's inference and science works like that data and all that you infer things um and there are other sources of knowledge summing up pure consciousness sakshi which is called consciousness or sakshi which is the witness consciousness the same thing that's who we really are all the time we don't know that reflected in the mind as a reflected consciousness that reflected consciousness now lighting up the mind becomes the knower using the mind and the senses becomes the knower the varieties of the knower or the seer or the seer i'm mangling english now see here and here and taster whatever you call it so that's the knower brahmata the knower is the jiva the sentient being we are that they are not too different physically ultimately just as moonlight is nothing but sunlight the noah is also nothing but the sakshi the witness consciousness it's the witness consciousness alone you alone who's the knower don't get confused with all these terms simple answer i am the knower who's the ultimate reality witness consciousness i am the ultimate reality witness consciousness but how then what's the distinction the distinction is i the ultimate reality witness consciousness atman brahman sakshi whatever so many names pure awareness i channeled through this reflected in this system of body mind sensory or you know this device i become the knower what's the problem the problem is i the nor is very clear to me to me the north i'm very clear that i am the knower but i am the witness consciousness sakshi atman brahman that's not at all known to me so i the knower have ignorance about my real nature i the knower will now deploy the knowledge of vedanta to remove the ignorance about my real self that's what's going on here after enlightenment what happens am i the witness consciousness of the knower you are the witness consciousness always where you just now know that you are the witness consciousness and that makes an enormous difference do you still continue to with the knower yes you can deploy the knower forever the purpose it is you know for seeing hearing smelling tasting everything goes on as it was earlier you just know that your limitless awareness now shining through this one body mind and seeing this thing hearing this thing thinking that understanding that remembering this forgetting that all the activities of the nowhere still go on the pramatta still goes on the whole distinction the witness consciousness does not come or go the knower arises and disappears when you fall asleep the no it goes away every night but the witness consciousness is always constant witness consciousness is not limited by the body-mind the knower is limited by the body-mind the witness consciousness is one there's only one witness consciousness there's only one atman or brahman one one unlimited awareness the knower is many we are all separate now and we are distinct knowers because we are equipped with distinct bodies and minds undivided in all beings this one being here is undivided in all beings and you are really that but it appears as if divided in so many beings and then interacting with each other it is literally god playing with god here so that's the distinction between sakshi and pramata you take one more question this is from rajiv i'll come to you from calcutta in india sri ramakrishna says that he who was rama and he who was krishna is in this body as ramakrishna but not in the vedantic sense maharaja where does the greatest divine incarnation sri ramakrishna stand in the triad of brahman shakti jiva and jagat so i think he means brahman shakti together yes brahman shakti that's one that's god and jiva us and jagat this world where does he stand in this so he's just quoting what sri ramakrishna said more than once he told swami vivekananda that he who was rama he who was krishna is in this body ramakrishna but not in your vedantic sense so what does he mean there and where does he stand in all of this so what he means there is that i am an incarnation of god an avatar this is a unique phenomenon what is the incarnation of god what is god after all a little bit of vedantic theory here it is pure awareness pure consciousness atman brahman which we are talking about that is the reality and then that appears as this cosmos that itself appears as the cause it's a screen which appears as the movie right now that reality pure consciousness atman brahman in association with this enormous cosmos which appears in it is god brahman plus the appearance is god i'm giving a sort of non-conventional definition but this is drawn from the traditional definition what's the traditional definition of god or saguna brahman in vedanta in vedanta for example you'll find chaitanya consciousness plus maya consciousness challenge channeled through maya is god ishwara saguna brahman or what he calls brahman and shakti so that's god and what are we we are the same pure consciousness but identified with one part of the appearance reflected in one mind and one body and saying i am this not all of this who is saying this actually ultimately and the knower is saying we can use all the terminology which has been developed nicely so noah is saying this but beyond the knower is that one radiance and i am this one body only one person so this we are this is called jiva sentient being jiva sentient being god universe all are appearances of and in one unlimited awareness which you are actually you're not part of that you are that you as the body mind you are a part of the cosmos the cosmos is the vast and you're a tiny part of it but you as pure consciousness you are not even the whole of it there's no hole and part there it's just that one reality now this consciousness in association with the totality of appearance one word we can use for that is god now god according to certain religions christianity hinduism for example especially christianity and hinduism we have this idea of incarnation christianity only wants jesus and in hinduism multiple incarnations are possible there what happens is god further incarnates into this cosmos with the full awareness i am god and also ultimately i am the absolute but appears as an individual like amongst us how is it different from us in many many ways and gita krishna points out how the incarnation is different from the rest of us for example we are being float we are floating along the river of karma we don't decide to come into this particular life i don't remember when anybody gave me a choice you know fill up the forms you know you know farm one parent selection form two where will you be born kind of body you want no that would have been nice but no nobody ever asked me it's past karma we are being wearing we are being whirled along in this stream of torrent of karma of course ultimately we are the ones who have generated this karma but god when god comes as incarnation is not born out of karma god has no past karma to force god to take incarnations born out of god comes incarnates out of compassion for helping us uh towards enlightenment so that's the whole purpose of the incarnation and not just individually helping us or you or me but also the whole of society the incarnation also uplifts society brings religion or fresh religion fresh spirituality into this retired old world so this is the purpose of the incarnation and there are many differences incarnation is ever liberated incarnation doesn't have to struggle for liberation incarnation is here for saving humanity for teaching us and so and so forth so this is these are the this is the doctrine of incarnation some religions don't accept incarnation well that's fine so this is avatar and suramar krishna is telling narendra nada that such a phenomenon is again there in this world at this time and this is what you see as the ramakrishnavatara now why not in your vedantic sense see in a strictly vedantic sense everything is an appearance of the absolute god himself is an appearance of the absolute the universe is an appearance of the absolute we are an appearance of the absolute in one sense are we not all avatar of them everyone is an avatar and appearance of the absolute in that sense in a very in general advaithic sense so that's what you wanted to preclude suppose vivekananda's strict non-duality would have thought ramakrishna is an incarnation well that's all that's all right everybody's incarnation that's fine what's what's so special about it no ramakrishna wanted to say not in that sense not that way it's a hugely special sense even there also ultimately what difference does it make to most of us you see this funny story about a senior monk told me he was an attendant to swami pramisha anandiji who was a disciple of the holy mother and swami pramisha energy is to often catch hold of people and tell them this great secret i want to reveal to you he was obviously overcome with the significance of this tremendous secret more than you are brahmana and all of that much more than that higher than that so one day this monk told me swami pramisha and there was quite old and sick at that time he said look i have to tell you something this is great secret i want to tell you and this monk who was a young novice at that time he knew he had heard it so many times he says yes swami tell me no first you make sure nobody is listening is there anybody outside the door he said nobody is listening and then the swami said look i can tell you sri ramakrishna is god himself he is an incarnation of god he is an avatar the god has come as an incarnation in this world again and then this monk said i told him yes yes i know. oh you know yes i know and everybody else knows or they know yes they know and it doesn't matter nobody cares see for us these are mostly for these are words these are interesting ideas and theories for swami pramishantha for the first time the reality is dawning just in the incredible reality that we are in such proximity to an incarnation again and you actually have a picture of an incarnation photographs documented you know daily conversations of an incarnation the life of an incarnation if you really really believe that and you feel that you may not be a highly developed spiritual seeker like premise but even at our level if you intensely feel for a moment literally god in this form right here so that's the meaning of incarnation and so what is the place of sri ramakrishna in the triad of brahman brahman and shakti that's he went guard actually and sentient beings and jagat sri rama krishna is an incarnation of that brahman shakti in the world appearing as a jiva appearing as a jiva not like us very different from us so krishna himself said what's the difference the little fish are playing in a pool and the moon is shining there and the little fish they feel them that moon is also one of us and they're all playing with the moon the reflected moon when the morning comes and the moon disappears they think alas where did it go that wonderful fish that round glowing fish with us it's a very beautiful example that this is an extraordinary appearance but still an appearance not really part of this mundane world and it's there for a period of time and it gives you something and it'll disappear forever again until the next incarnation all right somebody wanted to ask a question yes please come yes please tell us your name speak in the microphone you can take up your mask prana swamiji i am lata from chennai india i want to ask about enlightenment i understand that this is a i'm not sure whether it is a gradual process or is there a wow moment when an akanda karabrati comes and then you get enlightened and then the whole outlook changes of those people who are enlightened that we see so is there a moment or is this a gradual understanding a very good question is there a sudden moment of a breakthrough often you see the texts speak of that and masters also speak up that or is it a gradual development and a flowering and a fulfillment the answer is both but how let's see how one is there is a sudden breakthrough that actually happens and all enlightened masters have testified to it it could be a tremendous mystic vision something that is completely transformational it will be a before and after or more specifically in our tradition the advaita vedanta tradition what are we all working towards shavana mananananan you systematically study the vedantic texts and then you get a clarity about it and the the various doubts which arise along the path those are settled then it becomes a conviction but still there are these contrary tendencies which are past conditioning they are overcome by staying with that conviction staying with that conviction many meditation techniques are there nidithasana you keep doing this till a sudden moment comes when it's real what you have studied understood trying to stay with it it just a sudden breakthrough sudden unveiling not something new appearing before you it was you realize it was always there you always feel how did i not see it always this was so there's only one reality appearing as so many and i am that one reality as is everybody else and that solves all problems from the perspective of that reality so that immediately the effects are multiple one is that will never if it's a real breakthrough the kandakaravity it will never go away the karnakroviti itself will disappear because it's a part of the appearance but the clarity that you are brahman and that you are brahman that fact will never go away it's always there not that you are always thinking about it it's always continuously available effortlessly so forever so that's that's the sign that it doesn't go away um it also from that perspective all your problems are solved forever you know clearly yeah it's all right from that perspective it will not solve the problems in the you know the body your relationship problems your financial problems money your mental issues it will not solve those but from that perspective you see all this is fine it's not it's it's unimportant it's like moats of dust cheyenne you know floating around in the morning ray of sunshine good it's all good if you settled all this dust another cloud would come out would replace it this you're no longer trying to change this setup into that setup any setup is fine and of course in your day-to-day practical life you will continue to do whatever you're doing you'll do your job you will take care of your responsibilities and probably you'll be able to do it much better because you are at peace for the first time what you lose is i always say the lose is the right to grumble and what are you grumbling about from that perspective everything is fine all right so this is the sudden breakthrough it happens now what about the gradual thing the gradual thing is connected with the mind why is it gradual because the mind is part of maya and maya whatever is part of maya is subject to cause and effect so if you want to transform the mind you have to set in motion a set of causes causes here i'm speaking very abstract terms philosophically but practically these are spiritual practices what are the problems in the mind and the body restlessness is a problem so focus meditation will be the practice impurities a cloud of desires in the mind and are a problem they have to be set right so all of this moral ethical training training in focus and meditation basically transforming the person into something like a saint that which you see in the spiritual practitioner practitioners all over the world that starts long before the breakthrough it may have started if you're interested in spiritual life we've we feel sure that started in earlier births we have been pursuing this for a long time so it may have started long ago and slowly as we transform ourselves life itself teaches us from immoral to moral from moral to spiritual and this transformation is going on slowly at one point why is this necessary without this transformation that enlightenment breakthrough will not come it's simply not come either one will not take it seriously this whole religion spirituality thing does not seem real or you take it seriously but you're not interested or you take it seriously and you're interested but you think it's too difficult for me it's only for a few specialized people monks and sages and saints so all of these are not these are all because of the impurities of the mind when the mind is sufficiently purified and one undertakes spiritual practices one makes the breakthrough the sign of the breakthrough one thing is that it's the last birth this is the end of the game for you now even after the breakthrough there may be a process of maturation so all great enlightened souls you know you'll notice when they make the breakthrough they stay with it for a long time in some cases like srirama krishna ramana maharshi it's very spectacular for months together they're actually deep in samadhi they're staying with it it's such a powerful thing they become absorbed in it and the whole mind personality even body to some extent is transformed from such people it may not be so powerful in others but there is so before that breakthrough there is a long process of effort hard work transformation personal transformation ethical transformation ethical growth and philosophical spiritual growth it's a long process and then after the breakthrough one begins to live that life and there is also a flowering a growth when you what happens then is you are no longer the difference is earlier you are seeking now you are no longer seeking you have found it but you are now expressing it through the body mind so if you found it expression through body mind should be instantaneous no not so fast body mind is entirely part of maya cause and effect has its hold there you have to express it you have to live the truth in thought word and deed that's why swami vivekananda's definition of religion is so wonderful short simple and so deep religion is the manifestation of the divinity already within us notice he didn't say religion is the breakthrough moment he didn't see religion is enlightenment about the divinity within us he said religion is the manifestation of the divinity already within us in another place he says my mission in life is simple can be put in a few words it is to preach unto humanity their inner divinity and and how to make it manifest in every movement of life that and is very important that and making it manifest in every movement of life is the slow gradual process of unfoldment before the breakthrough that gradual process requires work hard work after the breakthrough that gradual process continues if you put in that person who has that insight if that person puts it into practice it will be faster but it's inevitable even if that person does nothing it will keep working because that clarity once it has dawned it's it is unmistakable it will affect his or her every thought word action it'll all fall in line slowly but then why not make it make an effort to manifest it srirama krishna's disciples the direct disciples who are here they all got that breakthrough enlightenment in various forms during sri ramakrishna's lifetime itself they were you know especially privileged to live with ones like this but then after sunama krishna's maha samadhi they put they went in for intense spiritual practices incredibly hard difficult spiritual practices in meditation and why what were they doing they have already found it so when they were asked swami brahmananda was a swami shivananda was asked they said what he has given us we're trying to make it our own that's the process of soaking yourself in it being centered in it making it effortless it is actually effortless what we are is effortlessly us but the mind is not convinced the mind has its own little games to play i have now slipped away yes yes i had that uh realization of brahman but now i have somehow slipped away it happens that's a trick of the mind you have not slipped you cannot slip away you have no choice there you are that reality it's like the clay part saying that i have slipped away from being the clay i watch the clay once in a while but i have to do a lot of meditation before i'm clear again no but here so these are cool truths they're very valuable you've asked i mean i know her she is a committed non-dualist studying under some of the best masters in india now but uh so the you have asked a very core question but surround it with spiritual practice it's always better to be safe one tibetan buddhist manual says when you attain that breakthrough it says that it is true that you are that reality they call it the clear light of the void you are that um wherever you are in the city or the forest but never miss an opportunity for a retreat it is true you now see you and your guru are one reality but never fail to show reverence to the guru it is true all beings are ever liberated but never pass up an opportunity to help the suffering very beautiful some six or seven so they are meant as a warning and a guide for those who are advanced spiritual practitioners very good question thank you so much can we have one more question there i'll yeah i'll come to you next this is from lakshabir devnath swamiji what is shraddha which nachiketa is said to have possessed you have said in your lectures that is that it is one of the qualities of a student who wishes to pursue vedanta can you please elaborate on the true meaning of sharada is it just faith shaddha the reference is to the story of nachi keta in qatar panishad and since we are doing the katopanishad now in our weekly classes i guess this question comes from there so shraddha means faith literally it's not an adequate translation faith confidence self-confidence all right so let me give you the direct definition of shaddha as it is traditionally defined and then we will expand upon that for a little while what's the direct definition buddhi means the understanding means it is the conviction that it is so uh what we might call faith that god exists for example that would be a great example of shraddha the feeling the kind of intuitive feeling that there is something to this spiritual path there is something when they talk about an ultimate reality there is something there without this one cannot start the spiritual path and without this one cannot be sustained on the spiritual path so you feel it is there it's worthwhile god exists it's worthwhile to believe in god and have faith in god brahman atman is the reality it's not just a clever philosophy it is that it's worthwhile to make an effort to realize it in my life that is faith you've got it also very specifically the traditional definition says faith in the teachings of the texts the scriptures and the guru shastra guru so what the texts are telling me a text the body of knowledge in general sense and in vedanta of course the upanishads gita brahma sutras especially the upanishads what they are telling us so faith in that that must be true why faith because i don't know yet there's a difference between knowing and faith right now are you sitting in the vedanta society of new york you will say yes so do you know it or believe it so i know it it's not a question of believing it it would be very odd to say i believe i'm sitting in the vidan society of new york no you know it knowledge has given you you've got knowledge that you are here right now if your name is joe and i ask you what's your name joe you said and i asked you do you believe it or do you know it and i know it don't you don't say i believe my name is joe no but when we don't know it but i cannot honestly say that i know god or i know that i am brahman i i honestly it's not a living realization for me in that case i have to say i believe it to be so let me pursue this and that's how all um education works you go to colombia enroll for a physics course and and then what the professor tells you at first you accept it as a here's an expert talking about his field here are the textbooks which are vetted and the best textbooks in the market i take them to be true now let me try to understand i don't start off by saying this person is a hoax and the textbooks are all false news no fake news the textbook textbooks are not fake news and this person is the professor is is not not a hoax so you have a faith there to begin with you must have a faith and that way it will it's natural sort of and the whole system gives us a certain faith in such people and such bodies of knowledge similarly i have a faith in the guru and the vedantic text what they're saying must be true it seems to have worked for a lot of people and so it's a kind of working faith not believe in it and that's it there's nothing more to be done no believe in it so that you can investigate it and see for yourself not just without not just advaita yoga also patanjali yoga there the approach is you you believe first you have a faith that this will work and then practice and you'll get the results whether it's meditation or hatha yoga asanas you're supposed to practice it and you'll get the results you see for yourself so this is faith as traditionally defined little further faith also means confidence in oneself what kind of confidence twofold one is i am a good person second i'm a competent person see there's a lot of implications for our secular life also not just spiritual life where does this come from notice what naji keta said when his father told him that yeah i give thee to death go to the house of death najigata thinks to himself that um [Music] among many of the boys here the students here i am the best in many things i am sort of middling in others in no case am i the worst i'm a good person i'm a capable person these two aspects when i have the self-image of myself as a good person as a moral person then it's much easier for me to stick to a to a moral ethical i clearly define myself my values my i am um what kavi calls a principle centered or life life centered not on money and not on relationships not on pleasure seeking not on enmity some people define their lives by enemies there's this great painter picasso in fact and he was in paris at one time and he wrote a harsh comment about another painter and somebody said he never said the slightest thing against you why are you saying these things it's unfair he said ah but to do great work i need great enemies i want to make that guy hate me then i will fight against and then i can produce great art art so that's a bit ridiculous but that's an enemy-centered kind of life or work-centered life we are in manhattan work-centered life i'm sure half of you have that at least no none of them are right and all of them will lead to unhappiness and lack of fulfillment a principle-centered life a value-centered life principle is a good word ethics or moral symptoms morality centered life that's that's what comes out of understanding myself as fundamentally a good decent moral person the second aspect of it is competent person i am able to do this i have tackled most situations in life till now let me face this i'll be able to do it i'll face it there is a psychologist here in america uh bandura albert bandura he defined it as he coined the term self-efficacy and he said children students who have this self-efficacy they differ from others in what sense you're faced with a tough maths question a child who has self-efficacy who feels i can tackle this will hold on and try the child who does not who gets scared who doesn't have this confidence in himself or herself the moment the first attempt it sees i don't understand it quickly go on to the next question we have all faced this in our math examinations you know so the um persistence will come out of the sense of competence engagement of all my faculties let me give it a good try with all my capacities where does this come from this comes from a certain sense of confidence of having tackled problems in life and having overcome a certain sense of com competence in one's capacities it's developed in childhood it's an important insight that uh albert bandura said so children uh building up their self-esteem their confidence confidence and capacities not just i'm a nice boy or nice girl but a capable boy or girl i can take care of myself i can take care of others these two together are part of shraddha swami vivekananda says self-confidence he gave tremendous importance and self-confidence there's no spirituality no psychology nothing in the world can help you unless you have confidence in yourself unless you are willing to change i have confidence in myself i can make a better life for myself the whole difference between the villain duryadhana and the hero arjuna and the mahabharata lies on this difference those who know the story krishna goes to the villain before the war and tells him what you are doing is wrong this is not dharma this is adharma come to the right path and what was the answer that duriana gave him he said i know what's right you don't have to tell me that i know what's dharma i know what's adharma but what's dharma my problem is what's right i don't feel like doing it what's wrong i can't stop myself from doing it okay then why not you see there's some force within me you didn't know freudian psychoanalysis he could have blamed it on the eid or the subconscious or something like there's some force within me which forces me to do it do this i'm helpless i can't do anything else this is this is the way it is that's what makes him a villain and arjuna has the same problem he asks in the gita what is it anitchana varshney or krishna even unwillingly why is a person why does the person do wrong things why are we not unable to why are we unable to do what we know to be right there's no urge to do that there is no you know the great joy in going ahead on the right path we know it's right no no desire we know this wrong can't stop myself and that's the human predicament but what's the difference between the villain and the hero arjuna the hero asks krishna how do i change please help me please teach me duryodhana never said that and krishna never opens his mouth unless you are asked unless he is asked okay so confidence in oneself faith in oneself as good person competent person one more point faith in god and faith in oneself what's the connection or god you make it a general term atman brahman vedanta buddhism whatever it is faith in that and faith in oneself i found the answer in mahatma gandhi in one letter he writes he says only those who have faith in themselves can have faith in god it's very important point if i really don't believe myself anything else that i believe will also have a question mark on it i'll be shaky about everything yeah good question um there was a gentleman who raised his hand please come here that will be the last question tell us your name and ask the question yeah pranam [Music] [Laughter] the reason i'm asking was a couple of years back as two or three years back i was invited today come to london and give this talk i said now it's too far i can't do that i need a visa and all of that didn't say no no not that london this is just across the border this across the border in canada and one more a couple of years back at harvard i saw i know people would visit they would all be impressed harvard and going around and all of that only one person i ever met was not impressed this lady who came was walking around there and with a group of friends and happened to meet this group and they introduced themselves they were all students there they said we are showing our friend around this lady is a professor and i said oh really where do you teach and she said cambridge the real one yes so the real london yeah the real it's funny you mentioned psychoanalysis because i was gonna ask you if there's any any useful overlap in your view between psychotherapy and advaita vedanta and someone recommended that i read joseph campbell a little while ago and it's very interesting that he puts both psychotherapy and vedanta on very very very high pedestals and and maybe linked to that is is there any meaning to be found in our in the contents of our dreams all right a good question joseph campbell let's start with the end campbell was right here in new york and he used to go to the uh other center the east side center he was a disciple of swami nikhilanandaji and that's where he got his vedanta from and there's an interesting story as you know um joseph campbell knew george lucas and he told george lucas about vedanta and you see a lot of that in the star wars movies there are even talks on star wars and vedanta and our professor jeffrey long he actually gave a talk here the the yoga of yoda so it goes a long way back i mean there's a lot of joseph campbell in the story of luke skywalker and all of that and joseph campbell got most of these ideas from from swami nikhilanandaji and vedant he did a very thorough study of vedanta and i read his diaries bakshish and brahman he went to india in the 1950s and he paints quite an unflattering picture of india but he also says that this this great beauty and power underneath he says in those days he calls it a river of filth and there's a beauty underneath that there is so he yeah so he does say that there is a deep connection between psychoanalysis and vedanta going further back carl jung freud himself for all his powerful insights was quite dismissive of spirituality max mueller actually wrote to freud about sri ramakrishna and it describes their letters are there and not max miller sorry roma rolla he wrote to freud there are letters in which freud actually admits to being puzzled by sri ramakrishna he says he doesn't do us immediate whatever modern psychoanalyst would do an immediate psychoanalytic dissection of sri ramakrishna no he admits to being actually puzzled by srinamar krishna but carl jung was highly appreciative he said that there's a lot of interface between vedanta and yogas vedanta yoga and the insights of psychoanalysis so he was very open to spirituality he went to india he went to balurmat our main monastery in india carlion did and him i think he also met ramana maharshi call you if i'm not wrong um okay now what's my view on this in our order there are two schools of southern this not just psychoanalysis but modern psychology and spirituality one is a very traditional approach some senior monks are there who say don't spirituality will take care of your problems and solve them at every level so you don't have to go to a therapist you don't have to go do psychoanalysis of yourself in fact one representative of this school of thought was swami ashoka nandiji whom i admired a lot and i read a lot it's a long before our time he was in the vedanta society of northern california i still remember he says at that time psychoanalysis was all the rage everybody had his or her own therapist here in especially new york and all over the united states this was in the 1950s and 60s 50s so swamiya shokanji scolds his audience he says do you go to a psychoanalyst he will disintegrate you and reintegrate you until you are a mass of patchwork so the way out is is prayer meditation spirituality and ethical moral life and so on and carl jung himself says he says in all my clients in his patients who are middle age and above he says for for them the source of their pathology is the divorce from their church so divorce between he was talking about christians there in europe this dropping away from religion spirituality this leads to a deep mental problem in humanity whatever your spiritual prayer some deep spiritual uh grounding must be there in one of the great spiritual traditions of humanity it must be there so um the other group of this is one group of monks say this no not necessary the other group to which i subscribe and one of my masters there in the monastery swami bhajananda a very luminous mind very well read in psychology he said why not psychology why not psychoanalysis and the modern positive psychology the point he made was if you are taking medicine for your physical party go to a doctor and take medicine you can take help from a counselor or a psychologist if you have mental issues isn't it vedanta itself which says it's a physical body and a mental body gross body that is stulla sharira sukhma sharira subtle body it's not you you can benefit from it and the second thing he said was swami bajan he said was look most of our problems are not spiritual problems when we come to spiritual life we come with a host of psychological issues born of our own inner psychology born of relationship issues financial pressures so many things so many pressures are there on the human being modern society so you can very well benefit from psychology another point this swami made was that in recent times last 20 30 years 30 years there's been a flowering of positive psychology in the united states going back especially to the time of seligman martin seligman when he was the president of the american psychology association so you see the importance of money and grants and all of that he was the president he was very interested in positive psychology so he he said that he i funneled a lot of grants and research opportunities in this field and it led to an explosion of interest in this field and now you have textbooks on positive psychology you have courses in positive psychology you have professors who teach that only positive psychology there are graduate students working on this now this swami said now psychology is even more useful for people on spiritual path why see psychoanalysis the problem was in spite of deep insights the problem was multiple one problem was it investigated only the darker reaches of human nature naturally because it was meant as a as a treatment as a therapy so the people who came to you were people who are suffering swami pavitra nandaji actually who was here in the vedanta society of new york he has this dialogue with carl jung where he asks carl jung that why do you do only that it's like only looking at the basement of a building not nothing else and jung answers that he says yes correct you're right it's just the way our subject has developed but you are right there are other reaches of human nature higher reaches of human nature and other psychologists like maslow and others they took up the task but right now it's a big thing and the swami told me that right now if you're a spiritual seeker and if you're interested you don't have to dive into psychology but you are interested there's a lot that can help you seligman himself very beautiful he's a very humorous man so he said that it's a joke it didn't really happen he said that the cnn came to interview me about this new positive psychology and what it can do for humanity and he said we're going to interview ask you about psychology professor and professor seligman said okay great but remember this is cable news and you get you have to be very precise you can't give a lecture so okay how many words do i get so one word joke and this is all right role cameras action and professor what is the state of psychology today and he said good [Laughter] and this is they say they said cut cut no no no this won't do you have to explain a little more okay how many words do i get this time two words all right cameras action professor what's the state of psychology today he said not good what do you mean it's just as good is it not good no no you have to explain more you get three words this time professor what's the state of psychology today and he said not good enough not good enough and then he says see we have been all along trying to take people from minus five to zero that's that's what we have been doing in psychology but why why not from zero to plus five medicine is not just for sick people medicine also sports medicine for for extraordinary people also so similarly can psychology help us to lead a more fulfilled life a happier life what about character what about resilience what about peace of mind what about satisfaction with life so many areas where psychology can actually help a lot so that was the movement the swami told me so since this is developed and is developing now a lot you can see a lot of things which are foundational for spirituality not the advanced reaches of spirituality there's no higher yoga or advaita vedanta than positive psychology but foundational about an ethical life a fulfilled life a well-formed ego see when before you get rid of the ego you must have a well-formed ego not very egotistic but well from balanced ego all of this modern positive psychology can help you i think that's all i would like to say about this thank you though i think we've really run out of time thank you so much [Music] to [Music] you