Video 18

Ask Swami with Swami Sarvapriyananda | June 7th, 2020

[Music] esatto mas at gamma yah Thomas oh ma Jyothi gamma Mathura ma um rhythm gamma yeah home Shante Shante Shante Oh lead us from the Unreal to the real leaders from darkness into light lead us from death to immortality Oh peace peace peace good morning and namaste everybody bye everybody of course I mean and our vast virtual audience which is spread across the world and I and I realize in many places it's not morning here we have just a handful of four or five people Diane is here to ask questions read out the questions we have received from the Internet audience I've been away for about seven or eight months so over this period of time a lot of questions have come in a lot of questions have accumulated and I feel it's sort of bad that I cannot deal with all the questions that I cannot answer each and everyone's questions but we can we have made a selection with the help of our team we have made a selection of certain questions which we will respond to the questions are relevant to everybody so while you may not have asked this particular question the answer to that question may strike a chord deep within you so it's good to listen to the questions not to be eagerly waiting when is my question going to be answered listen to the questions and listen to the answers the truth is very simple and it's only one truth it's being taught it's coming to us in different ways so the way this will go is I will ask time to read out a question and respond to it and then go on to the next one starting out with three similar questions on Brahmanandam on the first one is from shushant see you have described the process of attaining self-knowledge in advised vedanta as a two-step process first the wrong understanding that my body and mind is me has to be quelled and the self or Ackman is seen as the awareness secondly one gains the understanding that my self is no different from anybody else's self that it is all just one universal self or brahma the first step is elucidated by numerous examples that explain how that which is known cannot be the knower driving us to the ultimate Noah or Atman are there similar logical inferences that help one gain an intellectual understanding of the second step of how Hartman's are not distinct for example if I am looking at a yellow leaf that yellow leaf is the known and myself or antman is the knower of the yellow leaf if however at the same time someone else is looking at a green leaf the green leaf is the known and his self or Atman is the knower of the green leaf would it not follow that if this specific at this specific point in time the knower of the green leaf and the knower of the yellow leaf must be two different Noah's and thus the art nuns are distinct and not a common Brahma and Samrat Kaye also has a similar question but shorter I would like to understand how this individual consciousness is related to that of another how is this Atman within being aggregated as Brahman I am NOT able to relate to connecting the individual consciousness to the Universal consciousness and Partha are also asks ray your video entitled who am i if I am turian then who is the doer and more insightfully who runs the universe so all of these questions have one thing in common the movement from the individual to the cosmic from my reality to the reality of everything you see the problem is that not only does Advaita Vedanta say that you are pure consciousness but it also says that everybody else is that one in the same pure consciousness our these two obstacles are there to enlightenment one is our identification with the body mind now that is not so difficult to overcome at least intellectually we can come to see that we are not actually a body we are not even the mind we are this witness consciousness but there is a second big obstacle to non-dual realization that is this deeply ingrained sense of difference so we see other people as different from us other objects is different from us and when advaitha says it is all you it is all Brahman even if it's all Brahman that might be understandable or something we can vaguely grasp at but if it says it's all you what it's claiming is that difference is not real now our sense of difference is so deep and so real to say that difference is not real when we seem to perceive difference we seem to perceive difference and you say that this difference is not a real this feeling that this is the other it's not the other it's you this is difficult to swallow this is difficult to swallow so the question is that even if I realize myself as this witness consciousness how do I know that everything is is me I am everything there's this oneness unbroken undivided oneness how so the first step as he has said is it I understand what is the first step at first we realize who are what we are I this individual I the Enquirer am i this body am i this mind am i this body mind complex no why not the different ways of seeing this by the way of drink receive a vehicle whatever is an object I cannot be that just as I'm not this microphone it's obvious to me by the same logic because it appears to me as an object and I on the subject when we consider the body it appears to me as an object and I am the subject thereof what do I mean the body is an object it's an object to my senses I can see it hear it I can hear the my tummy rumbling or my heart beating even in moments of silence I can hear my own breathing I can hear it you can taste or smell it or touch it every sense organ reveals the body as an object object of sight sound smell taste touch I can think of the body here my body so the body is an object to the senses to the mind and I am the subject there off subject an object - tenesha cannot be the same thing and so therefore I am NOT the body not just as an intellectual conclusion we sort of we should feel it intuitively what we understand intellectually we should also try to see just as the difference between me and this clock this difference between me and the clock is so so physical so evident I don't say that I conceive of the clock as different to me it just feels different naturally in the same way the body should also feel we should also notice the body as not me not the not the witness consciousness why do we call it witness consciousness because if I eliminate the body from my self-concept if I eliminate the thoughts even the thoughts are objects they are also experienced happiness sadness depression fear anxiety understanding non comprehension memory in ability to remember all of these are experienced if they are experienced they're subtle yeah but they're objects they're subtle objects they're definitely much closer to our self-concept to to ourselves than the body itself the body is is gross physical but thoughts mind is also object and because it is object I cannot be the mind so this itself is a very great discovery that I am NOT the body mind though the body mind are there just as you at the driver of a car and you realize you are not the car it's the crazy driver who says I am the car you may feel one with the car but you are not the car and even when you are not the car you can drive the car quite happily similarly we can use the body and mind but we are not the body and mind per se and there are many other ways of seeing this the body and mind continuously changes and I note each change from babyhood to childhood to youth to middle-aged to old age I have noted that which changes and that which does not change they cannot be the same thing by the way of punch a Porsche of a vehicle all these ways we have we have seen button choco Chevy Vega is the five layers of the body mind complex the human personality the physical layer so-called food layer annamaya kosha the vital layer the breath the breath is just one evident part of the vital layer it's like the tip of the iceberg which we can experience directly but it works at every level of the body it's keeping the body alive vital layer the mental layer thoughts and the layer of the intellect which is doing all this understanding and and analysis beyond that the blankness which you hit if we try to penetrate and try to see beyond the intellect the five layers under my Akasha pranamaya kosha manomaya kosha big annamaya kosha and on under my kosha none of them I am I am that witness consciousness another way of seeing the same thing is the our star three of the Manduca we have been studying the mandu coupon assured all that I experienced in waking and the same one who experiences the dream and the dream objects third body in the dream and the same one who experiences the blankness of deep sleep and I am the same one who experienced the a gained of emergence of the waking state each state comes with its world and its body mind I think about it that way it's a new market will be of thing our normal way of thinking is that this body mind is real and here is the real world and this body mind falls asleep and then it dreams and then it just stops for a while that is deep sleep and then you come back again the whole thing is predicated on thinking of this body mind as the reality but it's not our experience your experience as consciousness is suddenly of a state of waking which is coming complete with its own body mind and a world with its own people and problems and relationships and the whole thing disappears and a new state emerges before you the same unchanging light and then that that's called the dream state and that disappears and there's just blankness before you the unchanging right so that unchanging light is you the witness it is called it to do so this is the first stage which is talking about not so difficult it's a very great discovery and it's a wonderful discovery but you know what the problem is there is still the smell the order of individuality there we still feel I have discovered a consciousness apart from body mind in this body and mind and the intuition is behind every body mind there must be a separate such consciousness if I see a separate body I clearly into it or infer a separate mind so there must be a separate consciousness no this sense of individuality the sense of difference it comes from identification with body and mind though we may say now I understand myself as the witness beyond body and mind we may see it we may even understand it but sort of subconsciously under the terrain there is this clinging to this misidentification with a bit of body mind and therefore we still feel different from others once you even intellectually consider the separation of witness consciousness from body mind what would distinguish the witness consciousness in each body mind why would you think that the witness consciousness in each body mind is different it's like one vast sky go to father in Minooka Rika uses this example one vast sky and you had a lot of little putts now in each part a little bit of the sky is there so are we going to say that each pot has its own sky so does it enclose the sky when the pot is moving does the sky inside the space inside move with the pot the fact is though it looks like that the fact is no all the pots do not actually cut off or demarcate space they are all in space space is not in them though it looks like that when a part moves the if you put water in the pot the part is moving the water in the pot is also moving along with the pot but the space in the part is not moving along with the pot it is rather the part moving through space some people are confusing people who filled in all of the space also moves with the with the form it's an illusion consciousness does not move along with the body and mind in your consciousness body and mind are moving the body is moving mind is thinking feeling imagining consciousness is not trapped in body and mind it just is fooled into thinking that I am this body mind if you consider consciousness in itself awareness in itself it's not limited by different bodies and minds so this is the example this is this is the wave you argue or reason your way to an understanding of the oneness of all all consciousness similarly for existence the chair is different from the table is different from the space in between the chair and the table table is their space chair is there between them space is there they see to be different things but when you consider jail is space is table is apart from the name table space chair apart from the farm table space chair the easiness in itself you cannot conceive of it it goes immediately beyond conception but what will differentiate isness it's an ocean of existence before us is Ness is mrs. Olson of existence right now it's an ocean of shining awareness which you are there's no difference there in an ocean there seems to be thousands of waves if when you consider the water is the water really differentiated in two thousand waters where is the boundary between the water of one wave and the water of the other is it does it make sense to say water of a wave and water of the other wave or rather this wave and that wave in water it's one vast expanse of water in which appear and disappear many waves it is one vast unlimited expense of being awareness such chit Satyam Yanam unlimited anantam Satyam Yanam an anthem which appears to be differentiated the bhagavad-gita says or we worked on Djibouti issue we backed amoeba just hit them undivided in all beings appearing to be divided how does Brahman or the Lord exist the Lord exists in all beings how undivided like one unbroken mass of water like one one indivisible sky like that it exists but appears to be divided like the little space in each part like appears to each wave suppose it appears to be an individual with its own water rather than the water being the reality in which the wave appears this is the way you reason your way from individual witness consciousness to one consciousness in all beings in the thirteen chapter of bhagavad-gita sri krishna says to Arjuna Chaitra diem this is Edom shaadiram Conte Chaitra media VD 88 idiotic shettrick Hampton Prabhu that budahas this body is the field and the one who experiences this body consciousness that is known as the knower of the field now each field is different clearly there are so many bodies each field is different each individual being has a separate field the body even the mind because it is experienced or known but the knower of the field body mind in each is it a separate knower of the field or one this is the question in the next verse thirteen trivita through Krishna answers that Chaitra Yamcha imam with this arabic Chaitra shoe burrata and over jonah in all the fields know that there is only one knower of the field and that is I God so God is the knower of the field in each of us say I am the knower of the field I am the one who experiences this body and God says that I am the one who experiences this body that means you and God are one and the same I am Atma Brahma this very self is Brahman yeah so there are many examples of so this is the way you reason and there are many examples also example of the water and the wave example of sky in different parts they all establish the oneness of existence consciousness traditionally what is done is the questioner has noticed something interesting that traditionally what is done is when you teach and write the Vedanta first with the help of reasoning and experience you differentiate the consciousness from body mind why why can you not straightaway say all is Brahman because the problem is we have already identified ourselves with one little body mind complex so the reality is not not evident to us right now if there is no idea of the sky and the party only thinks of itself is a part the sky is forgotten itself and thinks of itself as the pot first it must be told you are not the pot you are not even the water in the pot pot physical body water in the pot the subtle body mind you are not the pot you're not even the water in the pot you are the space occupied by the pot and the water and this space is undivided indivisible in all parts and between all the parts above and below everywhere one unchanging indivisible space that's what you are so first the process of decide enta fication with part and water must take place and then the idea that it is one reality here also one must be careful how one deploys examples there is a danger to using examples examples analogies metaphors they can point to the truth but there is a danger what is the danger the danger is when you talk about pot and compare it to the physical body when you talk about water and compare it to the subtle body the mind and then you talk about a space which is subtler than all of them and pervading everything it's a good example but it's misleading because to that extent it shows the existence of three things here is a pot and that seems pretty solid and real and in that there is some this wet stuff called water and all throughout is space and you are saying that the pot is like the body the water is like the mind I get it and I am somehow like consciousness like the space true as far as that goes but it's also true that the water and the pot are nothing different from the space that's difficult to grasp it was easy for the ancients because their cosmology was that from space emerges air from air emerges fire from fire emerges water from water emerges earth for them it was one continuous reality so what was the clay pot that itself in a subtle form was the water that itself in subtle form is fire that itself is subtler form is air and that itself is the space so the space itself appears in in a certain sense as a condensed water and and pot earthen pot that it is the same reality they understood from their cosmology for progress it seems like three different things it is not three different things use the example to understand the difference of space from pot and water difference of consciousness from body mind and the oneness of space in all parts the oneness of consciousness in all bodies and minds then let go of the example the next you must see that all bodies and minds are nothing separate from the underlying consciousness that is what that's the second step then only non duality non-duality of what non duality of consciousness is established there is no second reality even the mind even the body is not apart from consciousness is not apart from existence sucked being pure being sucked alone appears as mind and his body think of the mind as waves in the ocean of consciousness think of the physical body and the physical world as waves in the ocean of existence and his consciousness existence are the same thing the first purse questioner asked a question aren't be different at miself because here is consciousness experiencing knowing a green of your yellow object yellow flower and they're the same consciousness knows a green flower here and the knower of yellow here there's the knower of green aren't they two different nodes so doesn't it prove that they're two different consciousness Azure Atma that was the question here a distinction has to be applied there is a difference between the Sakshi witness consciousness or Atma and no were the two Sanskrit terms are Sakshi pramatta consciousness knower what is the knower it is the same consciousness using the mind and the sense organs and no an object so consciousness channeled through one mind using one set of sense organs knowing one object is an or and same consciousness shining through another mind using another set of sense organs knowing another object is your right another nor so they are different no words no words are many just as bodies or many objects are many minds are many sense organs are many the different sets of sense organs clearly so the knowers are many but behind all knowers is one consciousness Gita as I said one consciousness in all beings appearing to be many another example is a big part it example is given in the Dakshinamoorthy stotram a big pot in which there is a lamp a powerful like like a an oil lamp shining and the pot has many tiny holes from outside you will see many rays of light coming out many tiny beams of light coming out from the pot like a chandelier for example but the central lamp is one because of the holes in the pot many rays of light are coming out now you can apply that in two ways one is you can apply that to yourself as an individual same consciousness but there are many holes the eyes and ears and nose and skin and tongue these are the holes through which the Rays of consciousness are emanating one consciousness and this body is like the big part all you can think of all the bodies as the different holes and the one consciousness behind all of them and consciousness emerging at different rays of light through all these bodies and minds so NORs are many correct but behind all the knowers is one witness Sakshi and that is brahman but one consciousness in all of us the last question here the last question asked a slightly different question that as that but more insightfully the one who runs this universe could you repeat the last one 3-point question he's talking about your video entitled Who am I where am i if I am Tory am then who is the doer and more insightfully who runs the universe right so this earlier we're talking about get out Brahma the knower now the question is about the doer if I'm the one consciousness who is the doer who is and you know walking and talking and doing good things and bad things and getting karma and experiencing the results of karma who is the doer and who is the cosmic doer the one who runs not only this body the entire universe I don't feel like that I can understand myself as a witness consciousness I can go so far but I definitely don't feel like that I am the doer or the controller of the entire universe I don't feel like that it would be nice but I'm not I'm not I could do probably do a better job then then God is doing you know to set certain things right in the universe so yes here we have to understand in classical Advaita Vedanta a concept of Maya consciousness is indivisible you can't divide it into parts it's non dual there's no second to consciousness and there are no parts in consciousness but it's the the principle of Maya which does some remarkable things or appears to do it projects the consciousness as the non conscious you the awareness are projected as the objects of awareness the unchanging is the changing you the unchanging consciousness is projected as an ever-changing world and body and mind the blissful Dave Ananda as the cyka cyka the shifting pleasure and pain of this world Maya does this what more does Maya do it individuals it makes the difference between all beings so Maya has these two aspects a cosmic and an individual in sanskrit the words are so much the total and VHT individual Sumati and Westie maya in totality when it is associated with consciousness then consciousness gets a new name god god Ishwara saguna brahman paramatma mayan a part of maya a speck of maya associated with the same non-dual consciousness gets a new name Jeeva so who's the Jeeva it's you we are that that non-dual consciousness Brahman but limited by a tiny part of math of Maya it is like that vast electricity available everywhere but depending upon the electric bulb somewhere you see a vast amount of light in a stadium maybe blazing forth with light and maybe in a room with the tiny little bulb somewhere little flickering light same electricity but now channels through different capacities of the the devices of the bulbs similarly Maya can be total cosmic Samadhi or it can be individually and the name becomes Aredia or a Gianna in the case of the totality it is power it is the power of God to create the universe to preserve and control the universe and ultimately to destroy or dissolve the universe back into it into into into my eye itself from Maya is projected the universe and in through Maya the Lord controls the universe that is the doer he is asking who runs the universe it is you yourself but not as this individual questioner you yourself in association with total Maya you get a new name Ishwara you I mean Brahman not the individual being which we think ourselves to be and that Brahman itself in association with the part of Maya gets a name what is the name of the questionnaire pata pata you get the name parta same non-dual brahmin with an individual aspect of Maya get the name part so technically the definitions so mushy on overheated titanium consciousness pure consciousness associated with totality of Maya or ariana is called Ishwara and that is power omission t' omnipresent omnipotent god of offer of religion to God we worship in different religions there's only one and that's behind this entire universe surrounds this universe but the same consciousness associated with a part of Maya Visteon ovejita titanium consciousness limited by individual part of Maya becomes the Jeeva and there are many many jivas because there are many many parts of Maya innumerable parts of Maya Maya can be subdivided consciousness is not subdivided consciousness is one and non dual Maya is one but also divisible into many not theoretical we experience it every day when we go into deep sleep into the blankness of not knowing that is the and that is the seed form that is Maya that is a video the individual form of Maya which is our own limitation yeah so this is what divides into cosmic and individual you one question might be how strange is it that the same thing in totality that one little thing which can bind me to some Salah and make me think like that I am an individual and go through samsara more of that should be worse but when all of it is added together it becomes the power of God so Shri Ramakrishna explains it very nicely when he says the Cobra has the totality of poison in its mouth in the glance and is not affected by it at all but it's the power of the Cobra even a tiny bit of that poison can knock out a frog or a poor Mouse which becomes the prey of the Cobra so a tiny bit India into another being it knocks it out the totality of that poison it cannot harm the Cobra in fact it is the power of the Cobra so that's another ominous example but Maya is the power of Ishwara Ishwara is called Ishwara or God is called in Sanskrit Maya disha the lord of maya and we are called Maya Deena in the domain of Maya that's why we are in this such poor shape and Ishwara is lording it over all of us advaita vedanta tells you that your reality is not the Jeeva not even Ishwara Ishwara and jeev are one god and individual or one in that absolute consciousness which is beyond Maya that is not affected by Maya that is what we are right now to realize that that is a hum Rahm has me I am Brahman so that is the goal of Advaita Vedanta all right so this is the these three questions at this in common the difference between the individual and the cosmic and how do you reconcile it how do you realize it so this is a question from Lynette M I listened to your YouTube dialogue with a H el mas on science and non duality you mentioned private spirituality is not spirituality what do you mean by that thank you yes it was thus and 20:19 conference near san jose I think in California yes I said private spirituality is not spirituality at the beginning of spiritual life often it may seem that we are looking for our own liberation our own emancipation freedom from suffering so all our practices seem to be private practices that means my prayer my meditation my study my understanding my spiritual pursuit it doesn't really seem to be connected to the world outside except in karma yoga where you are actually serving God in all beings but your philosophical studies your meditation your devotion even seems to be pretty private your own thing very soon however as we go along in spiritual life we realize a maturity comes upon us and we realize leaving others out of our lives is a selfish thing to do that I will be spiritual it really doesn't matter what's going on with the world that does not work after some time one begins to you see why not I can be spiritual I can stay in a cave I don't care about the world it won't work because this very attitude that I will be spiritual and I don't care about others this attitude is deeply rooted in identification with one body in mind what you are trying to overcome in Vedanta and see that you are one existence everywhere or even in yoga that you are not this body and mind your consciousness apart from practically pollution practically separate whatever you're trying to do in in spiritual life in bhakti I don't care about this but individual existence I am just devoted to God and I and I am full of love and surrender to God in every case what you're trying to do is overcome the selfishness imposed by identification with one body mind and private spirituality quote/unquote private spirituality is what deeply ties you to this one body mind so there is a contradiction there so very soon you realize that one must care for others it's not enough that I have peace in meditation what about society around me is the systemic poverty and oppression and discrimination and suffering around me because we are one existence to ignore that and say I can be peaceful and joyful and Noble and elevated in my own little room or my cave while the world may go to destruction it will not work because you are connected with the world so that's why I said a private spirituality is no spirituality it's one something one realizes though and starts in the private mode at the beginning that's wise you know Swami Vivekananda gave the motor to the Ramakrishna order at Manoa moksha from jaga tthe for your own liberation for the welfare of the world and for the welfare of the world why both why not just your own liberation so and the welfare of the world they are not two different things it's the same continuity your own liberation and the welfare of the world are connected Jesus said love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and all thy might and could have stopped there but he also said and one more love thy neighbour so these are not two different things they seem to be two different things I can love God and don't care about my neighbor this is no because at at in a fundamental sense they are one one reality the Lord you love in the neighbor whom you try and trying to ignore No so these are two expressions of that same underlying truth Krishna said to Arjuna whole essence of bhagavad-gita mama knows Muruga contemplate me always think about me God and fight the battle of light life why and fight the battle of life just think about God why are you bothered about fighting the battle of life Arjuna didn't want to do that you know because they are not two different things you're trying to separate God from life but life is an expression of God the universe is an expression of Brahman it's like trying to separate the pot from the clay the ornament from the gold you can't do it it's one reality so that's why private spirituality is not much it's not very spiritual there's a question from a young person in India mimamsa be I'm now in class 12 in India I wish to seek spiritual enlightenment and can't focus on my formal academic school syllabus and truly I don't want to at least I wish to realize the true knowledge of life so I'll finish class 12 but our to that what should I do where can I join you or any other organization hoping to hear from you soon hmm class 12 would in India would mean he's about 17 or 18 years old so that's young yes cannot concentrate on your studies especially when exams are closed that's when we become very spiritual and it happens it's it's a real thing the mind plays tricks on us so when you go into spiritual life if you become a monk and search for God for God realization it's not a sprint it's a marathon it's it will require lifelong patience so if I do not have patience to wait and complete a degree an examination though it's unpleasant though I am NOT interested in it I have taken it up I must have the patience and the fortitude to complete it otherwise how will you have the patience to hold on to a lifetime of austerity and simplicity and service and meditation you know but I love that I want to do that you love that now your mind tells you after some time you may not love it and after some time again you may love it through those periods of loving it and not loving it are you able to persist or are you a slave to your moobs so when very young boys come to them monastery and say now I want to become a monk the first thing that senior monks ask is is your examination close by in most cases they will say yes how did you know that all we know what will happen is if you go to a monastery or Ramakrishna mark nearby wherever you are in India if you go you were inevitably the Swami there will tell you finish your examinations finish your degree get you can finish your class 12 get a college degree go to college get a degree though it may be unpleasant for you now there are some cases I'm not recommending that but as cases where because of great vairagya dispassion I have just no interest in studies I want to become a monk and realize God and it's not a false thing it's a very good it's a very high-end good impulse but it has to be controlled and channelized way under the impulse of that that Vairagya there are cases I have seen myself young boys have run away and come to the ashram and absolutely take will not take no for an answer I want to stay here and I become a monk so in those few rare cases you know what happens they will say yes all right so you are a brahmacari now a novice so you will have a tuft of hair wear a white dhoti you know now you think ah now I'm going to be a monk and realize God but the Swami in charge will tell you now what do you do what's what's your work now you go back to school as a monk and then finish that that's exactly what happens I have seen a number of cases so in in the Ramakrishna order we have schools and colleges so you the novice is put back into college and finish your degree and then come back and not come back you are still a monk even while studying you're still a novice but you have to finish your degree so that's what that's what I recommend strongly the deeper reason is any big project you take up in life it's always a good practice to complete it I can share I had a similar experience I was doing my MBA and it's two years at the end of the first year I thought I just had enough I don't want to do it at this anymore I just want to become a monk because I had made up my mind after finishing the MBA it's a long story but after finishing the MB I'm going to become a monk anyway halfway through I went to our main monastery on in balloon on the Ganga and the president my guru at that time was the president at that time was my guru Swami position on the G so I bowed down to him and I said I want to become a monk he immediately said he is to speak very slowly in a drawl he said what are you doing nowadays I said I'm studying Maharaja what are you studying I am doing this how long will it take to complete said one more year is it good to leave things halfway see he was gentle he didn't say go back and study some monks would do that he was very gentle and November I think I was 22 years old and he was at that time 92 years old so he said this is good to leave things halfway I realized he did not want it that's the most he would say he would not force things so I had some doubt which this young boy might have the same doubt my doubt was but Swami if if I do not give up the world now and become a monk maybe there'll be obstacles maybe something will happen and I won't be able to become a monk over the next one year things could happen will there be a problem will there be an obstacle I don't know how but he he said with absolute assurance there will be no problem there will be no problem and that somehow convinced me he had the power so I bowed down immediately I had come ready to that that moment itself stay back in the monastery never go back home never go back to school to college so I went back and I finished the the coursework I still remember that last assignment is submitted that very day or the very next day I took a train to the ashram where I was going to join the order and become a monk and amazingly enough through an extraordinary coincidence when I went into that data SRAM yogurt I saw it was busy later I visited that ashram earlier it generally not so busy a lot of people around as what's going on here I just gotten of the rickshaw come to become a monk what's going on here he said oh don't you know the president of the order swami bhootish Anji is visiting this ashram and today's the last day tomorrow he goes back to the main monastery it is amazing one year ago exactly one year ago he had said to me there will be no problem you joined the order up one year so I went and bowed down to him and the first thing he's and the other monks introduced me said this boy has come to become a monk please bless him Swami and the president of the orders were invitations he looked at me and he said Bengali too much young get the shop cut away ketchupy I've already said everything to you we have I don't know if you remembered or how he said that but the point was he his advice was and I am very glad today after more than 25 years of monastic life I'm very glad today that I listened to him and finished what had started my studies so my recommendation to him would be that you finish your studies and you get in touch with - room right away of him you can take advice from them from the monks there read books but complete your studies you go back to the question of consciousness the first question is - first one is from sone okay how can a formless entity which is consciousness be the material cause of a thing that has form and not only that but diversity of form and from action and can you please explain how Brahman in Ramakrishna's viana Vedanta is beyond cause and effect if the universe is a real manifestation of Shakti which in itself is real also how is Nagar no Brahman just another aspect of God to be realized similar to the forms of God like Shiva karley Vishnu etc how can God even be beyond Nagorno Brahman when we consider nagar and brahman as limitless and without quality okay heavy duty questions so the first one is how can something like near guna Brahman the absolute existence consciousness place which is beyond form how can it be the material cause of a universe with form which itself has no form how can it appear to have form not really one farm such a bewildering vast diversity of farms all the things that we see in this universe now how is it possible that which is completely families in beyond all forms all qualities all attributes can appear is this extraordinarily diverse universe from the microscopic subatomic level to the the macroscopic universe which you know quasars and galaxies and all a tremendous variety and this huge things spread out before us how can this happen well look at it this way in Sri Ramakrishna's simple language water itself does not have any form but when it freezes it appears to have so many different forms ice takes many many many different forms there's no limit to the forms types of forms and ice can take but they're all that same formless water I remember I had a long argument with a dualistic Swami with a Swami from a dualistic sects and so they they considered that God has a form and this Brahman without any farms they don't except that a very interesting argument the argument went on for three hours and I won't tell you who won nobody went but his point was and it is an interesting point that you may say that water has no form but whenever you see water it has a form whether it's a form of eyes or the form of the bowl in which you put it the form of the glass in which you put it there is some form even the river has a form where you put water or the ocean as a farm so you never experience water without a form how can you say water is formless just as the level of example then we will go to Brahman and God let little later on so whenever you experience what it is a farm now what will you say to that from an operatic perspective the answer is in the question itself note when you experience water it has a form of course it has what is experiencing seeing hearing smelling tasting touching to see something it must have a formal otherwise how will you see it to hear something that also has a form each music each word each language each call of a bird they have different their differences between them so that's the kind of form to an auditory form let's call it that way they are all distinct similarly with smell and with taste and with touch or each food you taste is different so that there is a difference between them and so when you taste food there must be some taste otherwise how will you taste it so when the reality is experienced it is definitely experienced with form to experience itself already there is a division of experience er experienced object and the instrument of experience knower known and the mode of knowledge in sanskrit pramatta premier and primeira brahma pramatta the knower premier the object of knowledge brahmana the instrument of knowledge once you are using these definitely they'll be forms definitely they'll be there will be differences without differences knowledge is not possible but notice one thing in the water example itself so this is what I asked him in the water example itself you see whenever we experience water has a farm now let me ask you what is the form of water itself which forms do there many forms which form the glass form the bowl form the teardrop or the raindrop form the dewdrop form the flowing river form or the iceberg form which form is the form of water if it is any one of those forms then it cannot be the other because that is the only form of water if you say all of those forms are the forms of water then of water itself notice it all of those forms cannot exist together they're all contradictory if it is cylindrical like a glass and if it is circular like a bowl the two cannot be together it's either this or so the one which takes the cylindrical form in a glass that one takes the circular form in a bowl that one takes the drop form in a dew drop or teardrop that one itself must be free of cylindrical form circular frown teardrop form it must be free otherwise it cannot easily move between these forms it must be free of form so that Swami kept silent after that but he has a point the point is this if you want to experience God you need a form that is the science of all the forms and images you see in Hinduism why so many forms Ganesha and Krishna and Rama and Shiva and each of them in different forms multiplicity of firms half animal half human forms or the form of fire the form of space that those are also forms in which she was worshipped as the fire as space as water so all of these forms they indicate the one which you are worshipping actually has none of these forms that's why it is able to appear in all of these forms it is only the formless which can appear as multiple forms if the if it is by nature it has a form it will appear only as that form and nothing else it cannot it has to give up its form and then then if it gives up its form and the form is intimately connected to its existence then you have to say it has gone out of existence itself the pot when it takes a form then only you call that clay pot when the form is broken it's still clay but it's not a part anymore because the form of the pot and the name of the pot and the existence of the pot was tied to that form once that form is gone you can never call it a pot anymore but the clay remains whichever form it is the potentiality for all different types of pots and jobs similarly the formless Brahman that is the only one which can appear as the multiple forms of this universe not only the early forms but also the divine forms in which Sedaka's mystics have experienced God Shiva and Callie and Durga and Saraswathi and Lakshmi and and Vishnu in all the forms of Vishnu and in different ways all Moses experiencing it as the burning bush in different ways and different forms different experiences one underlying reality which in itself is free of form how is it done that's the question again we're back to Maya it is through the that that the extraordinary power of Maya the formless can appear as a form the unchanging can appear as changing that it can appear at all look at the word appear at all we'll leave it at that we have a question from Mary a oh I just a meat holder I think the last question the second part of that question was asked so how does how can near guna Brahman be experienced as Shiva Carla can you repeat that one thing yes can you please explain how Brahman in Ramakrishna's viana Vedanta is beyond cause-and-effect if the universe is a real manifestation of Shakti which in itself is real also how is navona Brahman just another aspect of God to be realized similar to the forms of God like Shiva Kali Vishnu etc how can God even be beyond your gona Brahman when we consider Nocona Brahman as a limitless and without quality yes there's a really tough one one thing you've to realize is when we talk about Sri Ramakrishna's began a Vedanta there is a certain thing which is new in that approach it has to be as the newest avatar a Sri Ramakrishna gives a new perspective on spiritual life the began evident but there is also an old aspect to it it is based on who punishes it is based on shankara's Advaita Vedanta which is also an extension of that there is something new in that approach now even began away tanta the details are not worked out as yet it's new shankara Vedanta today has at the benefit of a thousand twelve hundred years of post Shankar Advaita development attacked fiercely by the it's dualistic opponents so Shankara Vedanta to come up with answers great philosophers from the dualistic schools we she stood waited waiter the attack Shankara Vedanta Rama Rama Naja comes up with seven objection subtly Donna Parvati seven objections to the Advaita concept of Maya each of them powerful and you have to answer that and when you do that your system develops a system emerges so that process has yet to take place in vegan evident we gana vedantis Moore is actually also not another type of Vedanta it's more like a meta philosophy something underlying all the different schools of Vedanta so yes near guna Brahman is fully accepted by Sri Ramakrishna and at that point it is not the material cause of the universe my material cause of the universe I'm they say oppa Donna let me do a little bit of classical Advaita Vedanta here oopah Donna means the material out of which something is made so clay is the material out of which a part is made so clay is the opava of the material cause the material cause can be of two types one is a changing material cause so milk is changed into curd or yogurt actually transformed it the cause is transformed into the effect or the seed is transformed into the plant some change actually takes place so this is called changing material cause in Sanskrit perrine ami Hoopa Donna Karan parinama means change the material cause changes into the effect it was a seed now it's a plant it was milk now it's yogurt there is another kind of material cause which is not really you know what happens is the cause itself appears as the effect without changing the Rope appears as the snake rope has not changed into a snake the sky appears to be blue in the morning appears to be red in the evening and appears to be black in the at night but the sky in itself is neither black nor red nor blue it appears like that it has not changed itself into blue it has not changed the space does not change itself into red colour no it's because of the atmosphere and scattering of light and it appears like that so this is called Weaver table ilanic are we worth the means apparent transformation according to add weight of a tanta the only way Brahman denier guna the a Brahman appears as this universe is the kupatana karana is the weaver tapa Donna Karan it does not change it's not really a changing cause like the sea changing into the plant Brahman has not changed into this universe existence consciousness bliss Brahman remains as Brahman without any change without any possibility of change and through the agency of Maya appears as this changing universe so isn't it a cause it's not even a cause not only does it not change it's not even that unchanging cause it's not even that because the universe has no real existence if the effect had a real existence then you could say that there is really a cause if there is no real effect then the cause is not really a cause the example they give of a pot in a production of Buddha Shankar Acharya says guitarist an example of a pot we really feel that the clay has been changed into a pot but when you examine the pot you find it's true and through clay inside outside top bottom whatever you you hold way it's the clay you're ignoring the weight of the water or whatever is involved there so that's the claim in that case what new thing is there apart from the clay in that pot new substance you might say shape is there what is shape a substance how would you know because if it is a substance it could exist apart from the first substance clay if it's a new substance it would be a second new thing which has been produced so you can keep the clay and show me the new substance called part but the part name is not a thing the part form is not a thing it depends on the original substance clay it has no existence of its own so no new second thing has been produced if no new thing has been produced there's no new effect then how is clay a cause of anything and it's we find it troubling because we actually see a potter making with great deal of effort making a part but to say that nothing new has been produced it's only a change in name and farm and use so in from that perspective the clay is not really a cause at first it appears to be the material cause of the pot but from that if you analyze it this way it's not really a material cause of anything similarly Brahman is not a material cause of the universe now why am I saying all this sri ramakrishna entirely accepts it all so at the ultimate level Brahman alone is real so does he accept the world as false yes but then he also will say it is Brahman alone who has become this world so Brahman alone has become this world and there is no world at all so Brahman is not a cause of this world these two are not contradictory statements if there is anything new which has come out of Brahman apart from Brahman that Sri Ramakrishna will never say that there is Brahman there is God there is my divine mother and apart from my divine mother a new thing called the world has been created at no point does he ever say this what he says is you go into a house and you climb the door and the stairs and go to the roof you leave everything behind when you climb to the roof you realize what you left behind is made of the same concrete and bricks and cement and water with which the roof is made the roof is the absolute is the he says Nietzsche and Leela nithya means deep eternal and Leela means the play so that which is the eternal the play also belongs to that that alone is playing the eternal is remember play means change will be there you say how can the eternal change yes at the level of play that which is eternal appears to change them I keep the careful listener will catch me at this point and say ah you said appears to change really unchanging and appearing to change they two can coexist the screen does not change movie changes a lot but the movie is not real there's an earthquake or a fire which you see in the movie or a flood now is the flood fire or earthquake as real as the screen no the unchanging unaffected screen can happily coexist with all sorts of false or movie earthquakes and fires and it's in fact the unchanging nature of the screen which makes the possible makes it possible to have movie earthquakes and fires and floods but unchanging screen and a real flood cannot coexist together run changing field will become will be destroyed by a flood or a fire or not quake really if it exists so apparent world and real unchanging Brahman can happily coexist together and that's Advaita Vedanta the careful listener will catch me and say that Sri Ramakrishna insists not only God is real but this world is also real it's not a real God and an apparent world the real God and real world and they are one that creates terrible logical difficulties see Ramakrishna does not care about our logical difficulties so we will leave it at that at least from our intellectual point of view you see advaitha with water tonight it's logically very elegant but there are other philosophies which can easily accommodate Sri Ramakrishna's point of view Kashmir Shaivism is one of them where the ultimate reality called shiva para Mishima is one and non-dual and eternal and through a process of vibration actually creates a real world and while creating this real world of limitation and problems and suffering still remains as that ever blissful Shiva awaiting will immediately catch how can it be both really changing and unchanging at the same time how can it be both eternal and temporal at the same time one can be real other can be appearance that's Advaita Vedanta Brahman is real world is appearance the two can exist together like a screen and a movie like the dreamer and the dream they can exist together like a real rope and a false snake they can exist together but the raw it is really a rope at the same time and really a snake at the same time no no no no but Kashmir Shaivism is there it's a highly developed and very sophisticated system and it accounts for a lot of things which in fact Sri Ramakrishna said one of the great philosophers professor Chakraborty once told me that to understand the gospel of sri ramakrishna in depth more than advaitha Vedanta it is Kashmir Shaivism you should study which will you can be will be able to relate it directly so let me leave it at that do we have time for one more question let's take one more quickly this is the question from Mary I was raised in the Christian tradition I recently heard your teaching on ashtavakra gita and read the heart of awareness and have become an avid student of vedanta now Jesus's teachings make sense to me in the light of the danta is it possible for a person to be pulled into Vedanta or Hindu spirituality by no conscious effort on that person's part I feel like I am pulled into it like I am to the magnet I am amazed by it I could use your guidance yes you see the problem with certain approaches to spiritual life that one-size-fits-all this can create problems so Christianity by and large or Islam Judaism or in our own traditions Vaishnavism shark tourism these are devotional approaches you must start with faith God exists and you love God and surrender to God but again depends on your mental makeup for some people it works wonderfully but for some people you can't get over that initial hurdle that you have to believe in this dualistic theistic system difficult to swallow and such mental makeup often they are attracted to the non dual teachings of Advaita Vedanta it seems to be telling you speaking directly to you talking about your own experience here and now instead of forcing you to believe in something which the books say so today we are in a situation where all of these teachings are openly and easily available it is because of her mental makeup that she responded immediately so directly and viscerally to the teachings of ashtavakra shava traits the highest statement of Advaitic truth and many people whose mental makeup is that of a Gani who will immediately relate to that those whose mental makeup is not of a Gani we find it outlined ish and you know but what they say here in America far out so yes it is very much possible because of your internal makeup makeup it's not that you're attracted you're a Christian being attracted to Hindu teaching it's because Vedanta is so broad it's so vast like I call it a full spectrum approach to religion if you are basically theistic devotional there is a lot in Vedanta for you there the schools of great of assistant da da da da da da Vedanta very devotional and they will attract you if you are analytic if you are this direct experience type of person Vedanta has something for you the advaithic approaches ashtavakra for example will immediately appeal to you so that's why you are you feel pulled today we are in a situation where all these things are available so there is no restriction now what do you do in such a situation swami vivekananda's approach i think is the most wholesome one he said use all four yoga's in your life - tava crap approaches the Gyana yoga direct experience the philosophical approach direct approach have that in your life but also have the devotion could be to Krishna to Jesus the bhakti approach we have a heart we have the ability to love we also have the ability to have faith we believe so many things so let's just make a beginning it may seem lifeless to you but also hold on to a bhakti approach and active service oriented serving the society taking care of the needs of others karma yoga and internal peace quite serenity the Raja yoga all of these approaches should be there in the life of a spiritual seeker now as she says that the traditional Christian approach might seem lifeless to her and she can understand Jesus better from an idiotic framework and I agree I also feel the same way but the traditional bhakti approach for example though it does not seem to work for me it's not the fault of the bhakti approach it is just the way our my mental makeup is so it's always good even if a particular approach devotion or meditation or service seems lifeless to you at present does not seem inspiring it's good to do that it's good to do it even mechanically and it helps in our spiritual development so what I would say is all the books all the teachings of Advaita Vedanta are easily available to us these days so study contemplate meditate on that you will find joy peace and illumination in that at the same time keep up devotional practices keep up your service to humanity and keep up meditation awareness sitting quietly serenely so on that beautiful note let's end today's ask swami session wherever everybody you are all there stay safe I pray to sri ramakrishna - the holy mother - swami vivekananda to bless all of us to protect all of us Oh Shawn - Shanti Shanti hurry home that's that Shri Rama Krishna Aparna must [Music]