Video 11

Ask Swami with Swami Sarvapriyananda | June 13th, 2021

[Music] oh lead us from the unreal to the real lead us from darkness unto light lead us from death to immortality om peace peace peace so in these sessions ask swami sessions we take questions which have been sent in to us from virtually every corner of the world and there are so many questions we have a dedicated team of volunteers who select the questions compile them put them together and classify and present it to me and i shorten the list further to the disappointment in our inevitable disappointment of large numbers of people sometimes it's not because the questions are not important the questions are all good sometimes i feel for example it's a very good question yet it's subtle and it cannot really be explained in one shot it would be much easier if the person were present you know then we could have a conversation and then clarify his matters so sometimes very good but very subtle questions have to unfortunately set aside but be that as it may we have a set of questions today and cordelia's going to ask the questions yes she'll put the questions to me and i really don't know if you'll have time for questions from the audience here but is there any would you like to ask a question you have any questions see will you have time at the end let's do maybe half a dozen questions from the internet audience and then we will see if anybody has questions here we haven't done questions from this audience physical audience for a long time yes all right swamiji the first question is from lisa cherian from kerala she asks brahman is beyond the body-mind complex if realization occurs in the mind how can it be a true experience since the mind itself is false or mithya yes you need to consider this carefully when you have an experience when you have an understanding in the mind often that understanding refers to things beyond the mind so for example let me give another example an example would be i say i am happy when i'm saying i am happy i'm saying it with the tongue and the voice box and the lungs the entire vocal apparatus so the basically the tongue is saying i am happy but it doesn't refer to the tongue the happiness is in the mind the expression is in the tongue the vocal apparatus it expresses the sentiment it speaks out aloud the sentence i am happy but what does it mean who is happy here where is the happiness it's all in the mind obviously the mind cannot speak aloud it uses that instrument to speak the happiness refers to something beyond the tongue and that's right speech works like that speech works about things other than itself similarly understanding in the mind about the self i am brahman for example it refers to something certainly beyond the mind but the mind can point to something beyond the mind ignorance about myself resides in the mind and the knowledge to remove that ignorance must also come in the mind another point where else can realization come you see realization in the mind mind is is an appearance it is part of the world it is therefore mithya or false and appearance how can a realization in the mind point to brahmana or you know reveal brahman why not where can realization occur can it occur in the body no can it occur in brahman the absolute reality no it can only actually occur in the mind knowledge comes in the mind ignorance is in the mind knowledge in the mind removes ignorance in the mind therefore realization can occur only in the mind upanishad says this man say even another by the mind alone it is to be realized now then what do you mean it's beyond the mind in what sense it is that which illuminates the mind and reveals knowledge and ignorance in the mind so what basically the mind does is when we study vedanta when we focus on it we try to understand it meditate upon it and we make the breakthrough we get it that getting it is definitely in the mind it removes the ignorance in the mind which made us think that we are body mind that is removed brahman is self-revealed not that brahman is revealed at that moment brahman is always self-revealed and that self-revealed brahman is now obvious again to me i realize i am brahman and that understanding is also in the mind so realization takes place in the mind where else will it be knowledge in the mind can refer to something beyond the mind just as speech in the tongue refers to something beyond the tongue and you are right any realization in the mind cannot actually reveal brahman because brahman is self-revealed by removing the ignorance brahman is revealed but the ignorance has to be removed for that knowledge is required and for that mind is required so you see this this is the technical aspect of that has been clearly discussed in the vedanta discussions those who have attended those classes you just look up the two technical terms british in terms of so those are technical terms but they sum up a lot of conceptual apparatus uh in terms of those um in that paradigm vritti biapti which is in the mind it removes ignorance and falafel which is also in the mind reflected consciousness illumining something that is not required because brahman shines forth that's how knowledge in the mind realization self-realization is different from other other kinds of knowledge in the mind okay amit sharma asks if i am pure consciousness who is getting manifested through the body and mind and if the world is just an appearance brahma satyam jagat mithya then why do i come across unwanted situations which i never have imagined for example the present covet situation across the world i have never heard thought or imagined such a thing ever then why has it come into my appearance if the world is just an appearance then who are the people around me like my wife father mother brother are they also just an appearance if you if yes then the same is true for them as well what is the truth in this case how can i understand this concept in a deeper sense please guide me swamiji yes if i'm pure consciousness you see at the beginning what does he say if i i understand that he says if i'm pure cause i am pure consciousness and the world is an appearance how does how do unwanted situations like the kovid thing which is unwanted i never wanted this um i could have never imagined this how did all this appear in me notice the transition you have made from i as pure consciousness as and to the i who might be imagining or experiencing kovid you have shifted the eye is very important in case of many case such questions what is generally happening is we give an ascent to the proposition i am pure consciousness i am pure consciousness fine but why do i feel misery when my children disobey me children of pure consciousness disobeying pure consciousness notice you have already made the shift shift to what from i as awareness only to i as this person body mind and and as long as you are this person from the if you take this person to be real i am this person then the world is real then um uh wife father mother brother they are real and kovid is also real the moment you take one part of the dream to be real it's that then the rest of the dream also you must take it to be equally real at least you made a shift unwanted how can i imagine something that is unwanted why do i come across an unwanted situation if it is an appearance in me see the underlying thought is so are you saying that is saying i am imagining all this this vedan this universe no is not saying that first of all let me just say unwanted situations come in dreams also and you don't doubt for one moment that the dreams are all your own imaginations dreams are our imaginations the mind projects these dreams and in these dreams don't don't we come across unwanted situations most of the dreams are unpleasant because they often reflect our anxieties and fears in the waking state they that generates these dreams therefore a lot of unpleasant things come which we don't want and yet we are imagining that anyway that's just an example but my main point is the moment i say here in the world there are so many things i have never imagined i'm coming across them so many extraordinary things are there i'm talking as an individual being then but vedanta never says that this world is the imagination of you know one individual but you the person amit sharma you and amit sharma are are the source of this universe no that is beyond megalomania no not in that sense you amit sharma have very little control over your own dreams also and this entire universe so from that perspective you can understand it as universe being a dream of god for example that's one paradigm in which to understand if i cannot break out of my limited individuality i am this person amit sharma then there is a cosmos before me i must accept that there is this physical universe then vedanta will say that there is a cause of this physical universe and that cause is consciousness plus maya that is called ishwara or garden and this universe is a projection of that cause you can call it a dream of god if you want to be political but it's a projection of that cause and i am an individual in that also but you started by saying i am pure consciousness if i am pure consciousness then please grant that you are pure consciousness in awareness is it not true everything arises in that awareness in awareness the mind which you call the mind of amit sharma arises the sensory system of which sharma arises which experiences the body and through the body you're experiencing the world yet all of it is in that consciousness imagine if that consciousness which you are where to be switched off if it's not possible suddenly switched up from that perspective the entire universe including kovid wanted unwanted situations everything would disappear in a flash so that is what is meant when they say that brahman is pure consciousness you are the prayer consciousness the entire universe appears in that pure consciousness it does not mean as we sometimes take it to mean that then i'm is it true that i am sitting here and imagining or drawing out a blueprint of the universe and imagining it and imagining it into existence no not i as the individual i as the individual also have popped up in that pure consciousness which is my real self yeah so the crucial answer if you want to take away the essence of what i'm saying is examine whether i am shifting the i and most cases we are shifting dying we generally so rooted in this body-mind identity that after giving ascent to i am brahman then we shift back immediately into the body mind mode and then we say why do i have all these problems if i am brahman what about then who are my wife father mother brother near your wife father mother brother who else can they be you know you are saying your brahman but yes but the moment i take this much as real i am this person sarva-priyananda ramit sharma after that if i say why father mother brother are unreal you're asking for trouble if i accept this much as reality i've already accepted the moment i say why father mother then you're already in the amit sharma identity brahman doesn't have mrs brahman then there is father brahman mother brahman no all of this would be an appearance in brahman but as this person then all the identities become all the relationships also become equally real as when i take myself to be a person i cannot dismiss this world as a dream krishna says in the bhagavad-gita [Music] the unmanifest reality that means pure consciousness the impersonal reality that is very difficult to to assimilate to realize if we are strongly identified with the body they have what means with body but then everybody there is a body for an enlightened person also at least from our perspective there is a body but are we deeply rooted in this body idea this is who i am then the impersonal consciousness that i am pure consciousness is difficult to realize from the impersonal perspective um amit sharma and wife and father and mother brother all are appearances and you are the one consciousness behind all of them we'll leave it at that moshimi from india asks pranam maharaj my question is about ahmra masmi this says that the very nature of i is consciousness this i the pure consciousness gets reflected in the mind of the subtle body and in ignorance becomes i the ego and and then starts all the worldly problems this i the ego generates the illusion of me and mine and desires anger and sufferings emerge thus this ego eye sets the wheel of karma in motion is my understanding correct [Music] yes yes yes more or less you've got you've got it right the first sentence which you said this i is pure consciousness the i yes so the understanding is correct the paradigm is right you've got the structure right essentially so one may change a little word here and that does not matter what one must do now is having got your framework right try to trace it back in your own experience do you know that the ego you've already said it the ego which i experienced right now the feeling of i is actually a composite that is as as she has written there is the mind there and the reflected consciousness there and the reflected consciousness is not separable from the original the pure consciousness brahman so you trace it back how do you trace it back use any of the procedures we have talked about in vedanta like drikdrisha viveka start with an object outside i am seeing that object from that object come from the awareness of the object come to the awareness of the eyes which are seen from the awareness of the awareness of the eye mean just just be aware of it from the awareness of the eye track it back to the mind which is considering or paying attention to the eyes from the thought in the mind go back to that which is aware of the thought in this way realize that i am that witness consciousness that impersonal awareness then use the mind the intellect itself to consider the nature of this impersonal awareness note that it is not a body so it cannot be fat or thin it cannot be a baby or a middle aged person an old person it it is not subject to the the illnesses and the pains and aches of the body it is not a mind it's not subject to the ups and downs of the mind the pleasures and pains the frustrations anger misery of the mind and so on notice how it is free of all what i consider to be my problems and yet i have said i am that so i am that which is free from all the problems which are considered to be my problems in this way notice that that eye the pure consciousness i is free of suffering so this is the cessation of suffering note it not just as a possible intellectual conclusion but as a fact it must be so from that perspective also consider how that that impersonal consciousness has no wants it is fulfilled wants arise at the level of the mind but that which is the witness of the mind which is not colored by the mind which illumines the mind minds wants and the mind's fulfillment of frustration that one is neither does it want anything nor is it does it need fulfillment nor does it ever have frustration it is ever fulfilled in that sense so that is the achievement of anand or purnathwam fulfillment completion that one what one can do after getting this clear as this person has and then track it back in experience um do it again and again the way you read it in vedantic texts you will see that the advice seems to be that you track it back and then remain immersed in samadhi and that it's very difficult for most of us when the mind is not trained what we can do is if we cannot become immersed in that but we get an insight into it if you've got an insight keep repeating that insight short bursts of insight that much we can all do all means those who are at the this level of understanding without understanding that insight practice is also not possible so repeat that again and again in short bursts so this is a long question swamiji ramachandran balaji asks dear swamiji it has become clear to me that individual consciousness is the fundamental substratum of every human being however i am unable to make the leap towards the notion that there is a larger universal consciousness of which this is butter reflection and all your explanations including of words being able to confer direct knowledge sometimes as in the case of the 10th man story do not enable the understanding of that link your explanation of vidya rania's subtle word-based proof of the that in that thou art is tremendously circular reasoning you first have to believe in it to accept the reasoning and that cannot be done without direct experience the link between the individual consciousness and the universal consciousness is to be understood beyond any more questioning either by logic or by direct experience every route of exploration stops at the border of the individual unalloyed consciousness that gold but just because every human being is gold it does not automatically mean that there is one universal gold and not many gold pieces all made of exactly the same base substrate so to say but all separate i have reached a spiritual dead answer please help yeah it's a good question actually um the basic question is the link between our individual awareness and as he says universal consciousness universal awareness these words itself they create confusion after some time um the first sentence which he wrote which biology wrote that i am convinced that um pure consciousness is the substrate the fundamental substrate of all human beings this is the fundamental substratum of every human being individual consciousness is the fundamental substratum of every human being i am convinced he says now what i would say is that pay attention to that conviction if you are clear and convinced about that notice that using individual consciousness but notice the nature of that the moment you say consciousness is the fundamental substrate of each human being notice what a big leap you have made what a big progress or that advance you have made over common sense idea of human beings you know for example medical science what does medical science if you say fundamental substrate of every human being what would a doctor say what would a physician say what would a biologist say is a fundamental substrate of every human being fill up the blanks it's a body why because the idea of you know is consciousness balaji says consciousness individual consciousness is the fundamental substrate of every human being the doctor or the biologist would say no why because consciousness is a product of the brain brain is a part of the body and the body with without the body there's no consciousness without consciousness there is the body that is the materialistic reductionist approach and that's common sense that's the common knowledge at least right now um when you say consciousness is the fundamental substrate of every human being notice what a big jump you've already made what you're already saying is that if consciousness is my fundamental substrate that means my fundamental reality is consciousness not the body which means um i am not the body i am consciousness and if it's fundamental then the consciousness can exist without the body you've come to this point i am not the body i exist without the body therefore i am independent of the body all of that follows from that sentence i am convinced that the individual that the individual consciousness is the fundamental substrate of the human being of every human being therefore this consciousness which i am is not dependent on the body it's not a product of the brain or of the of the body this is the position you've already accepted what i would recommend is then notice the nature of this individual consciousness this so-called what you're calling individual consciousness is it born with the birth of the body can't be because it's not the body does it age with the aging of the body can't be it can be a witness of the aging of the body it can be affected by it can you can feel that it's somehow limited by the aging of the body but it's not aging with the aging of the body will it die with the death of the body that's ridiculous if it's not it's not independent of the body why should it certainly decide that the body is dying i should also die no it will be the witness of the death of the body so this consciousness is immortal if you say consciousness is the fundamental substrate then this consciousness must be immortal it is it is aware of the similarity of the mind which is independent of the the continuous ebb and flow of the mind of the emotions of ideas of memory of personality or the sense of loss anger guilt all of these are in the mind and the consciousness is that which is aware of them but independent of them just as just as if the body is fat does consciousness become fat for example let's take an external thing this is a clock i'm aware of the clock does this awareness become a clock it's ridiculous awareness reveals a clock then i'm aware of the body careful here does awareness is the awareness the body no it reveals the body just as awareness of the clock does not make awareness a clock similarly awareness of the body does not make awareness the body itself awareness of the contents of the mind does not make awareness the mind itself so awareness is independent of body external world body mind what a huge thing the miseries and the anxieties and the fears of the mind they're all revealed by consciousness by awareness just as this clock is revealed but the awareness is not miserable or anxious or fearful so we have got this an awareness consciousness which is immortal which is free of these miseries and sufferings and limitations of the mind and reveals them but it's not colored by them like the vast blue sky in which various clouds float come disappear similarly the awareness is this this space in fact is considered as a space in vedanta called jidar kasha the space of awareness in which various kinds of constellations of thoughts feelings emotions which we call a personality floats up and then dissipates and you have said that that is the fundamental frustration the substrate that means you are that biology is that fundamental substrate and that's that's my real nature now why do you call this impersonal awareness individual whatever is individual in biology is it not the body is it not the mind and the personality in the mind personality which the mind constitutes that is individual what do i mean by an individual that which is separate from everybody else is the body individual surely i can see so many different bodies here the bodies are different i can clearly experience it is the mind individual surely i have this intuition that my thoughts feelings emotions in this mind are different from the thoughts feelings emotion knowledge in those minds clearly minds are different bodies are different as far as we know so the distinctions between us lies in the body-mind does any distinction lie in consciousness like light light reveals the whatever is here there is a microphone there are cables there's a mask there is a table and there's a clock the light which reveals clock mask microphone there is the light different is the light which reveals the clock a kind of clock light uh reveals a mass kind of mask light microphone light no it's the same light these microphone masks and clock are individual they're quite different from each other but the light which shines upon them and reveals all of them impartially it is not individual it is not personal it's quite impersonal isn't awareness by itself it's saying the um individual consciousness that the consciousness by itself how is it individual you know why we call it individual because somewhere deep inside we identify the consciousness with the body and the mind it's almost as if i'm the light which is falling on the table i'm identifying it with the clock and feeling the clock light mask light microphone light no considered apart from the object's illumined the light is one and the same homogeneous why is consciousness individual because we tied we we are unable to separate it very clearly from body mind that's why it feels individual consider another approach i the awareness i feel very very distinct from everybody else here in the waking state because it all seems very different from me in my dream state also i feel that consciousness is very different because my dreams are different from your dreams but consider the deep sleep state the consciousness which reveals the blankness the uniform blackness in my deep sleep in everybody's deep sleep the experience is exactly the same every man woman child every animal even insect i heard even they have deep sleep so if they have deep sleep in every case the man woman child um animal insect those individualities are erased in deep sleep the awareness that shines upon that uniform blankness is it different than if the experiences are the same how can even the awareness be how can the awareness itself become different from the deep sleep perspective notice since the deep sleep experience is same for everybody there is no reason to suppose that the awareness differs in any way in any in any one of us the gold can talk about gold pieces different pieces of gold can you talk about pieces of consciousness let's examine he gave gold pieces but can you talk about pieces of consciousness gold is a physical substance you can cut it into physical pieces the consciousness is if you consider the mind even the mind it's very strange to think about pieces of the mind you can have various thoughts in the mind but can you actually mix physical slices of the mind you can't because the mind is not a physical thing it's a subtle entity be consciousness is even beyond that is it possible to make pieces of consciousness and say different individual consciousnesses there is no way of distinguishing consciousness from one person to another person to another person in sentient beings you can distinguish bodies bodies are individual minds are also individual though in vedanta we have a concept of an underlying cosmic body and underlying cosmic mind but they are all united but beyond that in consciousness there is no way actually of distinguishing individual consciousnesses that is not to say that the question is not a deep and good one because it's a very profound question because this is at the point where sankhya and advaitha differ sankhya does talk about individual consciousnesses separate purusas i'll make two more points and then move on one is he says sir my spiritual life is at a dead end please help me why he said that he said um at the end he said i have reached a spiritual dead end yes please help i have reached a spiritual dead end why should it be a dead end when you say that individual consciousness is the fundamental substrate of biology that means i am that in that consciousness you call it individual consciousness also but i just showed you that so-called individual consciousness being free from the body of biology is immortal does not is not born with the birth of biology does not die with the birth the death of the body of biology because it is free and the illuminate and the witness of the mind which biology calls his own mind then it is free of the ups and downs the miseries the the unhappinesses the frustrations of that mind that consciousness is free that consciousness is is transcends the sufferings of the body mind that itself is a wonderful attainment in spiritual life why is spiritual life at a dead end not at all if i consider consciousness to be my fundamental substrate your spiritual life is not at a dead end you have reached a pretty pretty good place i would say it is it is the culmination of sankhya this is the first point i want to make if you really consider my only problem is i don't know how to understand that individual consciousness is same as cosmic consciousness if you drop the word individual and cosmic you'll see they are the same it's the words which are creating the trouble but anyway if it my only problem is i know i am pure consciousness but i feel it there is an individual consciousness and this is a cosmic consciousness i don't know how they are the same well we'll deal with the problem later but first of all consider what you've already got you've already achieved enlightenment according to sankhya and that enlightenment is immortality it is free from suffering it is it is beyond death and disease as that substrate consciousness so it's not a dead end if you are honestly convinced about that and you try to make it a living reality for yourself it is enlightenment and this is what sankhya calls kaivalya the alone the supreme aloneness consciousness itself in sanskrit in in sankey it is called purusa pure consciousness now the question remains that are these purushas are there many many pure consciousnesses in each individuality there is one pure consciousness so there are many individual beings there must be many individual consciousnesses which is what he feels and there is some kind of cosmic consciousness and how are they one and the same chadvita says just follow the track which i gave that why is this consciousness individual sankhya gives many arguments it sticks to its position so no no how can consciousness be one then the birth of one would be the birth of everybody the death of one would be the death of everybody but you can immediately easily answer those questions the birth is the birth of the body death is the death of the body you have said your consciousness why do you think the birth of the body is your birth why do you think the death of the body is your death second uh argument for example there are five major arguments given by sankey but all of them can be dismissed in this way you'll see each of the arguments takes holds of something in the body-mind not in consciousness itself the when one is awake everybody would awake if you're all the same consciousness one falls asleep everybody would fall asleep that's sort of what happens in vedanta talks if everybody falls asleep now but again that's not true when one is sleeping and another is awake what is sleeping and what is awake the mind there has the consciousness falling what what would it even mean for consciousness to fall asleep we understand what is the meaning of the mind for going to sleep the body also undergoes physical physiological changes when the mind is asleep but what do you mean by consciousness being asleep if you feel our consciousness being asleep or awake then you have not distinguished between mind and consciousness yet if consciousness is ever awake it's like saying the day and night on the sun we have day and night here but in the sun itself where is dn where is night it's just blazing illumination all the time you can at the most say that it is eternal day there consciousness is eternally awake there is no question of it is going to sleep so one will be awake one will be asleep then the consciousness must be different this sankhya argument does not hold good another sankhya argument how can consciousness be the same if one person becomes illumined everybody will become illumined if one person is in ignorance everybody will be in ignorance not true again ignorance and illumination enlightenment that's in the mind in the individual mind guru is enlightened does not mean that necessarily it would be a good thing that the guru is enlightened then we all disciples will also become enlightened we'll get the benefit of but unfortunately doesn't work that way because the difference is in the mind but difference is not in consciousness so every argument which shankar puts up is pretty easily dismissed by vedanta and therefore shri krishna says in the 13th chapter of the bhagavad-gita says no me o arjuna to be the one consciousness in all of these beings no individual consciousnesses it says that that which is the witness of the body mind know that you are that fine immediately arjuna will have the same question as biology so i am this but in duryodhana in bhisma and karna and my brothers in all of them their bodies and minds they must be separated no separate knowers of the body mind immediately krishna says the knower of the body mind in all bodies and minds is one and i am that that is the idea of god in vedanta one consciousness shining through all bodies and minds so this is the argument advaita vedanta goes even further but we will not touch that even further means all right we are one consciousness but what about these bodies you have admitted bodies are many minds are many and the world has millions of entities this whole variegated pluralistic world is an appearance in one consciousness essentially not different from consciousness that will be the completion of non-duality because before that there is still duality all right we'll leave it there the next question uma kambampati asks i'm currently listening to vedanta sara in the last lecture you explained how existence and consciousness are one and the same please can you extend this to bliss as well how is bliss the same as existence and consciousness what is bliss first of all i'm sure she's got the right idea but it's important to repeat this again and again when we talk about existence consciousness bliss take one existence we don't actually mean existing things the moment we say existence what comes to our mind oh the table is an existing thing table exists uh clock exists man exists woman exists even space exists these are existing things even sort of abstract entities like numbers in some sense they exist they're existing things but when you say existence we're talking about uh existence itself which appears as existing things when i say water i don't mean a particular wave or even all particular waves i mean that reality which appears as waves and foam and surf and bubbles so i mean existence itself not things which exist so i get it so similarly when we say consciousness i don't mean conscious experiences happiness pleasure knowing something seeing smelling touching eating drinking thinking understanding loving hating these are all experiences illumined by consciousness but consciousness is one and the same and unchanging so we mean the consciousness itself not particular conscious experience we mean existence itself not particular existing things now coming to bliss this question when we say bliss or ananda we mean bliss itself ananda itself not particular feelings of happiness the moment you say bliss immediately unthinkingly if it's a nice feeling we think of a smiley face now are there two different our particular feelings of bliss different from bliss itself are existing things different from existence itself our conscious experience different from consciousness itself no just as waves are not different from water ornaments are not different from gold the things which exist in this world or appear to exist they are not different from existence existence appears as those things all our conscious experiences are made possible by consciousness by the illumination granted by consciousness all that we consider happiness and fulfillment is made possible because of bliss or ananda all right so this is what first thing what is the point here don't immediately think when you say bliss it is some kind of nice feeling the world gives me some nice feelings uh if i meditate and i'm peaceful it gives me some nice feeling and ultimately enlightenment will give me even nicer feeling that nicer feeling must be pleased no but those nice feelings are not separate from bliss they're made possible by because of the place now what is that bliss and how is it the same as existence consciousness do i give you an answer in one straight sentence worth contemplating upon the unlimitedness of that existence consciousness is bliss i will repeat again worth repeating the very unlimitedness of that existence consciousness is bliss ananda is ananta anand the bliss ananta infinitude when i realize my own infinitude as what infinite what infinite existence infinite awareness and infinite here means unlimitedness when that is realized that fullness that completeness that purnathwa that itself is ananda where did you get that if you ask please you know justify on the basis of the upanishads chandragyupanishad says that which is the infinite the vast that itself is happiness there is no real happiness in the limited there is no real happiness in the limited notice how our demand for happiness is never fulfilled no matter how much money you get how much money you get i don't know if i should say this this gentleman okay i will not name him this gentleman who is now the richest person in the world just now some people who know him very closely and they told they told me that whatever he does the plain and quite obvious message there is or the motive there is how will this get me more money so the richest person in the world whose individual values what 188 billion dollars something like that the that person is still continuous day and night the project is increased more more as i am interested in any project but which will give me back many times the return of which i put into it not satisfied whether it is money or pleasure seeking or name and fame or achievement and power there is no limit to what we want why it seems a horrible thing but actually it points to something very wonderful in our nature it's because our nature is infinite bliss this this completion that completion is not possible with money power name and pain appreciation in the world outside we're trying to fill um in the words of the poet a god-shaped hole with something which is not god-shaped only the infinite can fill an infinite hole and that infinitude is available to us that's our very nature so that infinitude is bliss what infinity it is it is exactly existence consciousness but what existence consciousness not an existing thing not a conscious experience it is the underlying unlimited existence consciousness underlying all existing things and all conscious experiences when you realize that i am that you realize you are unlimited that itself is bliss now a question might still arise that sounds awfully abstract swami the underlying demand here is the unspoken demand here is after i realize these things will i really be happy i mean i want that feeling of happiness i understand a feeling of happiness is not the absolute bliss itself but that will that feeling be there or not don't worry it will be there and oodles of it unlimited you you will have lots of smiley faces proof look at the lives of the saints in every tradition are they joyous or not yes excellent theories i said a sad nun is a bad nun in spiritual life you will get happiness suramar krishna talks about vishayananda bhajananda brahmananda vishayananda is the joy that you get with contact with things of the world anything in the world from a cookie to a nobel prize winning work in sciences anything in the world it gives you some joy and that's what when most people are stuck but a greater joy awaits those who take to spiritual life that is called bhajananda they like the joy of spiritual practice of of meditation of prayer of divine music of contemplation of uh dispassion of the um of the discernment of the of the of the eternal from the non-eternal of devotion to god and the love of god all of them give a purer and happier joy than the vishayana and the things of the world and even higher is what you are asking brahmananda even higher than the joys which you get in the course of spiritual life is that ultimate bliss which is not a type of bliss but it is bliss itself vivekananda put it this way not that it is absolute not that it exists it is existence itself not that it knows it is knowledge itself by which he means pure consciousness not that it is happy it is happiness itself that is the meaning of bliss yeah asks if brahman through maya becomes god then how come surrender to god leads to moksha the idea here is if something comes through maya it is under the domain of maya it is false it is bound this is i think the idea behind the question if brahman through maya becomes god what is the point of surrendering to god because god is also in maya no two points here first remember maya has two aspects surround krishna would never tire of repeating it vidya maya and avidyamaya so what is avidyamaya avidyamaya the maya of ignorance is that which plunges us in worldiness greed and lust and anger and jealousy hatred fear anxiety grasping onto this little life and somehow desperation all of this is worldiness it comes from avidyamaya me and mine and trying to hold on to that much vidyamaya is the love of god faith in god devotion the the clarity that there is an eternal reality the world is non-eternal and this internal reality this is all vidyamaya vidyamaya takes you to enlightenment frees you from samsara avidyamaya embroils us in samsara more and more and both are maya both are maya now what about god so in advaita vedanta where this question comes from is in advaita vedanta the absolute reality brahman existence consciousness place is what we call the god of religion when it is associated with maya but when you say associated with maya it does not mean under the domain of maya just because something is associated with maya to be an individual or to appear anyway within samsara it is you have to be associated with it krishna is to say this is the field the kingdom of maya the the the arena of maya just because something is associated with maya does not mean it is trapped in bondage or limited those who are enlightened the masters who teach a spiritual life are they not within vaya isn't the body part of maya even the individuality of the teacher is part of maya true but they're free and by taking refuge in them by taking their help we also attain to enlightenment and freedom through maya beyond maya if that is so of ordinary and ordinary within quotes ordinary enlightened beings how much so than god god is nothing other than that absolute reality plus maya the maya is the power of god for us it may be bondage sushram krishna explained as the mighty serpent which has a poison in its uh mouth or in sphangs and one little nip little bite from that serpent is enough to knock out a mouse or a frog but that's just a little bit of the poison all of that is in the mouth of the serpent the cobra it doesn't affect the cobra at all it's the power of the cobra it's not a limitation for the cobra similarly maya is the power of god it's not a limitation for god with that power entirety of samsara is going on and for those who are ready for liberation that power alone god with that power alone grants liberation where is vedanta within maya or outside it within maya it has to be all the texts and the teachers and all the vedanta classes and ask swami it is all enabled by maya it's not outside maya it is all within the realm of duality tulsidas it seems he said show me the teacher who can teach non-duality without duality i will bow down to him impossible it is true maya that you go beyond maya so i'm vivekrant said you cannot run away from the machine he means maya you cannot run away from the machine learn to work the machine it will set you free learn to work the machine let us withdraw maya itself the great buddhist philosopher two thousand years ago nagarjuna in the south of india he said that in his mullah madhyamaka karika without taking the help of the lower truth the higher truth cannot be attained we must admit that we are stuck in this position and we must start here and starting here means starting within maya without taking the help of maya no way of attaining brahman maya is that which occludes occludes with heights and also reveals brahma from brahman's side there's no problem from our side we must go through maya now if you consider just i don't know if it's a good example but at least it's a it has the merit of being an amusing example and you being a doctor can relate to it swami atma priyanderjee gave this example he said there are two ways a patient can get help in the hospital one is when the doctor comes on his or her rounds which is once in a while only because the doctor is a specialist and has so many things to deal with we'll come quickly and take a look at the and the nurse will give the report on the patients under her care and say that this is the problem and the doctor will make a few recommendations and you can seize that moment and appeal to the doctor this is my problem that is my problem and this is a pain i don't have that medicine this is the discomfort and the what what can the doctor the doctor do at most the doctor will say all right i'll tell the nurse to deal with it now the nurse is going to be annoyed with you because all of this is a complaint against her or you can do the other thing you can take help of the nurse you may say um you know i am suffering this much this is my problem can you help me the nurse will say all right my dear i'll take a look at it i'll i'll settle it for you but if you complain to the doctor the nurse is going to be slightly annoyed with you i'll fix you wait let the doctor go the doctor is going to come once a week only i am always there so one good way is to take hold of my of course not in the vedantic sense here maya refers to the divine mother take hold get hold of maya to surrender to maya and maya will help you out of samsara towards enlightenment if you complain to shiva at the most you i will say i'll tell the divine mother to look into it that that's what shiva can do it's it's her uh arena so that was an example given by swamiyat yes next calvin from toronto asks why is it that self-inquiry does not take and the inward turning that is supposed to directly reveal the self does not occur for example it is clear to me that logically i cannot be the body it's an object to me an inert physical mass which i while i am consciousness intelligent and aware yet however many times i repeat this inquiry and notwithstanding being intellectually convinced the feeling i am the body persists at one level i can provide my own answer it is because the enquiry is only intellectual but that begs the question what is missing what can i do to make that to make what my intellectual intellect recognizes as truth into living reality it's a good question and many people who seriously follow this path will come to this juncture at some time or the other calvin you said from toronto yes all right first of all let me just remove a minor let us say hiccup and he said that i understand the problem is is at least this much that it's a inquiry is intellectual inquiry all inquiry is intellectual inquiry cannot be in the kidney it has to be in the intellect right it can't be in the intestines it can't be in the hand it can't be in my pocket it has to be in the in it's a function of the intellect to inquire so which are we don't think which our enquiry is intellectual now what you are saying is a major problem anyone on the path of knowledge will face this after some time it's not after some time you follow this path for some time it is not difficult to see what is being said here it's a pretty clear analysis and the logic is pretty clear but then comes the problem not next it doesn't seem to have helped me much i'm still stuck with literally feeling like this and in uttarakhand in the himalayas the sadhus they use a hindi word for this um in hindi that means it's not digested if the food has not been digested similarly vedanta has not been digested what he used the word he used is very perceptive it does not take it should catch and transform the fire should blaze forth i'm striking the match everything i'm doing it right but that spark is not coming so what is the answer to this at two levels one is what the texts say the text will tell you very precisely this stay with that what you call intellectual conviction stay with that and deepen it this is called the process of assimilation you are your conviction already is i am pure consciousness so i am i am he or i am that that pure consciousness i am swami vivekananda says stay with it tell yourself that again tell yourself not in the sense of brainwashing it's it's staying with something you've understood so stay with it tell yourself again and again i am that till he says till it tingles with every drop of your blood i mean it's a very visceral thing he's saying it's no longer just you will not feel that just intellectually it is intellectual it is emotional it's a storm in my life it is transformational till it becomes very vivid this is called nidhiddhihasana vedantic meditation vedantic meditation meant exactly for this once you know the teaching it is clear that is shavadam hearing the teaching or studying second not only is it clear you are convinced about it if anybody asks a question anywhere a question is raised you are ready to reply you know your clarity is so so much is there even after that if this doubt comes then you have to stay with the clarity after all why will you not stay with it if you know something to be the truth why won't you stay with it if you know that this feeling that i am the body this kind of a sensation unexamined complex of sensations which makes me feel talk and behave and react to the world as the body it's a kind of unconscious inertia of past practices then all that you have to do is to decondition it start small make it a living feeling then act from it try it out once or twice you know take out the car for a spin don't go straight on the freeway learning to drive will learn in the driveway or in your parking lot then you take the car out similarly vedanta you try it out in small you know where do you try it out whenever there are problems a little pain in the body and little somebody misbehaves and you feel upset can i not feel upset can i know that i am the upset free consciousness which reveals the upset and also the quick disappearance of that upset and that consciousness which never got upset you cannot be upset can i stay with that in little little challenges till it you can face bigger challenges and very soon you will see it's a living reality for you try it out don't give up that conviction you have got what you're calling that intellectual conviction that is clarity that is conviction stay with it and see where the resistance is coming that resistance is an opportunity there are it's basically programming from the past nothing more than that nothing to be scared of stay with the new light which has come one shadow in the himalayas you would say very nicely that which you have already realized and understood gave value to that we keep seeking more sophisticated philosophies more sophisticated practices but what you have got is enough already to set you free from samsara give value to that this sadhu he had little little like epigrams in hindi value what you have already got in spiritual life that is respect the truth which you have already got another time he would say to uh to recognize and accept one's own reality is a very great quality all i am brahman all of that is fine but right now my mind the level of my ethics morals my situation in life is far below that ideal and i accept it mentally i don't have to tell anybody else then i can make progress i know i am that infinite existence consciousness there's nothing to be upset about and you start making a change yeah so stick with that that's first first that is the recommendation given by any vedantic teacher but i'll give you some advice and again remember this is not just for not just for calvin from toronto not just for him these questions come to different people across the world depending upon the kind of thinking you have got other circumstances in life you face so they are common questions are common to many people that answer may benefit many others who have not asked the question similarly this is one question this answer i'm going to give now the second point the first point was vedantic needed hasan you have got a clarity stick with that clarity stay with it again and again and again and face challenges in the world live with that you will see it will become a reality but then other one i'm giving is a more practical answer the sticking point is not knowledge the sticking point is also not vedantic meditation sticking point for most of us is purity of mind is a more fundamental level of lack of preparation in spiritual life that is generally the condition of most of us then how do you deal with that the answer is a very powerful answer is you need help you need help from whom from ishvara from guru god will help you and the guru will help you you're lucky you are in toronto go to the vedanta society of toronto swami kripa mayanji is there talk with him see if you can get mantra diksha initiation into a mantra when you get the mantra you get in the words of somebody earlier peace like a piece of gold you get a piece of god i'm bringing half a half humorous over here but it's like a capsule which is given to you it is the seed of god letter scale it's called a god germ maybe that will germinate into the tree of god i'm being poetic here but uh initiation is very helpful in spiritual life mantra very very helpful many of the problems which calvin is talking about you have to work from a different angle at it so the most powerful method i know is initiation into mantra ishta mantra chosen deity mantra of that deity and method and teachings about how to repeat the mantra and how to meditate and start working on that for few years at least you'll see it will clear up have already done the sort of the superstructure is sort of ready now the foundation has to be strengthened yes yes [Music] swarnenduswaha asks swamiji i am 30 and starting my career in academic teaching and research in the university in west bengal physical science is supposed to reveal the fundamental principle and the underlying reality of the universe i have immense zeal to be able to contribute towards that end deep contemplation lately has put a seed of doubt in my mind since all the science and everything is under the domain of maya whether they are actually capable of revealing the truth about the ultimate reality or god or do they being under the domain of maya lead us to somewhere else rather than to the ultimate reality the scriptures also classify signs as paravidya or lower knowledge incapable of leading one to the ultimate truth or god i would love to know your thoughts on this pronouns that is the lower knowledge um this is a good question and often uh scientists especially scientists who are in fundamental sciences like physics or mathematics they become interested in spirituality vedanta philosophical side of buddhism they become interested i've seen that in fact some of the latest works of well-known popularized scientists who also act as popularizers of science brian green right here in in colombia then sean carroll in caltech who wrote the big picture many of their books their recent books sort of the kind of final books they write they are more philosophy than physics they're more metaphysics than physics you see because they're interested i think it's it's the same uh questions different sides of it which drives a person into physics and into spirituality that's why many of the great physicists were also very spiritual people they had this same fundamental question what is the secret of the universe look at the question which starts vedanta in upanishads the question which starts vedanta what is the quest what is that by knowing which everything here is known mundaka panisha kashmin no bhagava gyat is what is that sir by knowing which everything here is known it's a scientific question actually it's the counterpart of the question you know the drive for the grand unified theory one thing to explain everything so one is one understands that the at least those working in physical sciences not necessarily but many of them do have a spiritual quest which is a quest which avedantin would recognize that yes now can one approach um the ultimate reality brahman through science if not why not if yes how and is um the pursuit of science a distraction from attaining the knowledge of the ultimate reality so i'll answer these questions quickly can one attain the ultimate reality through a pursuit of of science physics for example or mathematics if yes let me say first of all no why not the classical vedantic answer would be that um you are studying that which is not the self you're studying the universe matter energy space time body even if you could study the mind that's the limit of science especially physical science if you say the limit would be the brain for example beyond that you don't study you cannot study anything so it will never take you to the real self and the real cell can only be attained or realized by a study of the the upanishads and vedanta which point out to you something which you have to intuitively grasp within yourself through shravana manana nidhithyasana systematically studying the vedanta under competent teacher reasoning about it and then meditating upon your like calvin says he has got a logical conclusion logical conviction about it then meditating staying with it immersing yourself in it that will give you the breakthrough and you realize you are brahman a course in physics won't do that that's why i remember meeting this gentleman who was a physicist he was dismayed he had met a modern great well-known and very reputed modern teacher of advaita vedanta who had asked him what do you do and this gentleman said i study i'm a researcher in physics and this master told him that oh that's all within maya forget it come here i will teach you about the ultimate reality of brahman now this is a little dismaying for the gentleman because then it puts a big question over his whole quest or at the very least it bifurcates the two i'll search for ultimate reality that is vedanta's province and what i do for my living my lifetime that is something which is lower within the realm of illusion and so on now this is the answer from the classical perspective and i also generally i agree with it but but that's not the end of the story [Music] i was corrected by a friend of mine who is one of india's leading mathematicians and a monk so when i told him this classical non-dualistic perspective classical vedantic perspective on the pursuit of modern science for example with in relation to the realization of of the vedantic truth so when i said it can't be done because this just studies something within the domain of maya and that is beyond maya but then he told me something very obvious it should be obvious he said why not what will take you to that realization vedanta right isn't that also within the domain of maya if one quest one system of knowledge within the domain of maya can point to something beyond maya why not another all you need is the quest and you keep at it you well it's quite possible he's not saying that it will take you to the realization of i am brahmana but why is it impossible it should be possible and that is also the view of for example swami vivekananda we know in this city in fact in the vedanta society you would have i've seen the old records who's attending the classes swami abedan and speaking nikola tesla tesla is coming to the class and listening to the talks why is he why did he become interested in vedanta it goes back to swami vivekananda whose talks tesla had heard first in the world parliament of religions in chicago tesla would actually shut down his pavilion he had a pavilion on electricity at the world parliament in the exposition there he would shut down the pavilion come and wait for swami vivekananda he would stand at the back of the hall listen to swamiji's talks and then leave immediately afterwards and swamiji swami vivekananda struck up a friendship with tesla if you see the correspondence there's actually a correspondence between tesla and swag and so i'm vivekananda felt tesla said he would be able to demonstrate the cosmological principles of sankhya using modern science and mathematics i don't think anything came of it because physics and mathematics at that time were not developed to the level with what it is now i'm sure swan video would be very interested in what is going on in in physics and mathematics today and not that it's exactly what vedanta is saying that would be too cheap we still have to work at it to see how they can complement each other or they can point in the same direction so um this is the second answer yes the pursuit of modern science physics can physics mathematics and why just limit to physics and mathematics why not the life sciences especially consciousness studies why can it not lead to vedantic conclusions it can and there's a lot of work being done in that in that respect now then the last question is so is my general study of physics he's doing research is it a distraction will it take me away from the realization the vedantic realization i would say no is it a useless pursuit no even if you say it is within the realm of maya it still is a scientific investigation into the transactional world in this vehicle world and any number of details any number of you know like deeper understanding of what's going on in this world it's welcome what you're doing is always useful and helpful it should it's not uh to be dismissed so it is a helpful pursuit but will it lead to uh spiritual realization here sister nivedita says that swami vivekananda told us she writes in the introduction to the complete works of sawing vivekananda swami vivekananda told us art science and religion are but three ways to the same realization but you need vedanta to understand this what you're trying to accomplish through vedanta also can be accomplished through art and science it's a it's a new and radically radically new way a very vivekananda way of looking at a fresh look at spirituality in this modern world it can be done so the vivekananda was convinced it's not a vain pursuit but it also must be consciously done that if my purpose in doing physics is to become the head of the department and publish a few papers then that's it that's the limit but if i have an inner quest to find out what is true ultimately so yes most valuable and worthwhile and should be pursued we live in the age of science it is uh notice with the classical teachers of vedanta i'm fully with them in this much that vedanta stands on its own legs on its own glory it was true and valid long before the age of modern science it continues to be true and valid in the age of modern science without any help from modern science i'll be as clear as that but we are also in the age of modern science we must be people of our age not people of the classical age and just as they were true to their own environment and civilization we also must be true to what what is true here what we have found out it's a glorious age to be alive in so so this idea of matching and reconciling and assimilating science and vedanta it's a good project though many traditionalists might be opposed to it okay right abhai kulkarni asks in one of your talks you have used the analogy of a child going to a movie theater to watch a movie the father is trying to explain to the child what a movie screen is but wherever he points there is only the movie playing i think the analogy is to explain brahman as the substratum of everything but i was wondering if the movie projector is turned off you can see the screen so if we turn off the world using raja yoga and patanjali yoga sutra techniques wouldn't we all witness ourselves as brahman if this is the case why is raja yoga not superior than gyana yoga isn't experiencing something better than having the knowledge of something all right so this is a good argument for samadhi for raja yoga what is the argument here what does raja yoga do it says that's the second sutra when you all the virtis of the mind sees that is called samadhi and notice a lot is involved there because the entire universe is switching up the entire universe the entire universe to us to experience the universe ultimately it must come in the form of pritis in the mind you you must either see it hear it smell it taste it touch it think about it understand it remember it this is how we experience the universe just that the universe exists is not enough it must enter into our minds moment it enters into our minds what do you what do you mean entering in our minds our minds have thoughts about it when those thoughts sees you will not experience anything when you do not experience anything anything i mean the word very carefully anything then no thing is experienced then what happens then the witness consciousness remains in its real nature when the mind ceases to to you know have break out into waves and swami vivekananda gives a very nice explanation of a lake a placid lake when there are no ripples on the surface of the lake and the water is very clear two things are necessary the water must be clear not muddy and the wave must the lake must be without any waves or ripples in this very place just imagine like glass like water so clear and transparent you can see straight through to the bottom of the lake similarly the witness of the mind becomes very evident when consciously by deliberate effort the mind is tilled for a while so what then you realize i am not the mind after you come realize means after the mind starts working again oh what was that i saw during that mind is still you cannot have any particular realization because just consciousness is there witnessing the silent mind you realize oh i am the consciousness quite apart from the functioning of the mind this is what the gentleman is saying that so if you can get this kind of an experience that reveals to you i am the witness consciousness oh isn't this superior to just saying that and there is the body and the mind and beyond the body and mind is witness consciousness and you are that that sounds kind of theoretical you know like a classroom lecture or something like that and here is the direct experience first of all if that's the way it seems to you you're most welcome you're right there's nothing wrong in it but that also is predicated on a slight misunderstanding subtle but deep misunderstanding of advaita vedanta it's not like he says a battle between experience and knowledge hereby knowledge he means something written in a book heard in a lecture demonstrated on a blackboard that's knowledge and i vividly see myself as pure consciousness that is experience no this is a false dichotomy it's a false distinction vedanta is experienced through and through [Music] just as seeing the movies and experience seeing the screen is also an experience the idea that i see the screen when the movie is switched off it's a false idea why because you are seeing the screen when the movie is playing also i need to switch off the movie to see the screen is based on a false idea of what the screen is when it is covered with pictures the pictures are insubstantial they are nothing other than the screen itself that understanding must go then with eyes open and eyes closed you will realize it's brahman if brahman is limited to seeing it in samadhi when sadhu put it nicely you have put your beloved lord in the jail of samadhi you have locked him up only when you go into that into prison prison visit there you find god in the jail in the prison of samadhi outside it no god it's always there that is what vedanta reveals to you now immediately i can understand the thought pattern this person and then and immediately one might say oh i'm not saying that it is available only in samadhi is available elsewhere also but it's easier to recognize it in samadhi and once you have recognized it you will see it you will understand it outside samadhi also although the patanjali yoga sutra the next sutra itself says vritti saharu pyramidaratra when the mind is active the pure consciousness is mixed up with the movements of the mind it should it means as if mixed up with the movements of the mind the consciousness never becomes the mind so the final point here would be this is the point raised by mother sudan saraswati in his commentary on the bhagavad gita he says there are these two ways of appreciating of realizing that ultimate reality that i am brahmana one he says is the way of samadhi the yogic meditation way the other is the vedantic way he calls it the vedic way the way of yogic meditation of plunging yourself into samadhi and literally as like he says switching up the movie he says that erasing the experience of the world he says saraswati that is the only way for the followers of sankhya and yoga who considered the world to be real real means real by itself then you must appreciate yourself as pure consciousness apart from the real world and apart from the real developments you need to shut down your experience of the real world then you realize yourself as pure consciousness that's true only when the world is a real something else apart from the apart from you the consciousness but vedanta does not say that vedanta leads you first of all to appreciate the world of diversity which you see outside is not outside this inside outside is not there in consciousness inside outside is the body's feeling inside outside is a kind of idea in the mind but mind body inside outside all are in consciousness it's only in and through consciousness that we have these ideas of inside and outside mind and ex mind independent reality in consciousness only if that can be it's a subtle point but if that can be appreciated then the argument for yogic samadhi falls apart madhu sudan saraswati there says many people miss that point he makes it very clear follow the followers of advaita vedanta vedantic they where the world is an appearance in consciousness there is no need to practice yogic meditation separately samadhi separately for attainment of knowledge and then he says therefore our revered master he means shankaracharya therefore our revered master has in no place ever recommended samadhi now footnote to this so samadhi yogi samad is not useful for advaitans no that is also not true it is useful it's useful for a different purpose not for enlightenment or realization it is useful for what calvin said from toronto for driving in that realization making it a living reality overcoming the past conditioning needed technically speaking needed dihasana vedantic meditation leading to samadhi also the purpose of that would be to overcome the problem called viparita bhavana contrary tendencies and you know ingrained patterns of behavior immerse yourself in what you have already realized not waiting for samadhi to realize it you have already realized it by vedantic inquiry what is vedantic inquiry like shavana manana they've already realized it you've already got conviction and clarity now stay with it and there yogi samadhi is one powerful one of the powerful ways in which you can immerse yourself in already gained realization do advaithin's practice yogic samadhi certainly you'll see in the lives of many great non-dualist masters and they practice very deep samadhi and again and again but the purpose is different good so we have had a very nice set of questions i pray to the lord to bless all of us with insight with purity of mind with strength of mind with peace of mind may our lives become a blessing to ourselves and to all those around us [Music] be